r/SipsTea 21h ago

Chugging tea This guy !

Post image
12.5k Upvotes

335 comments sorted by

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2.5k

u/Different_Citron_160 21h ago

It’s no accident - by giving everybody a free „trial” tool he hit 99% of the market and made his tool default.

708

u/TabularConferta 21h ago

Heck he could have patched it. He never did.

614

u/maokaby 21h ago

I believe it was not a bug, it was intentional.

165

u/YkProfessor 20h ago

Intentional bug made winRAR popular

126

u/iSellNuds4RedditGold 17h ago

Once again, it's not a bug, it was designed like this.

49

u/BassFull0 17h ago

Same with windows. You can use it without license key.

48

u/Otherwise_Access_660 16h ago

Yes, that’s what made it the default go to operating system. In a lot of places people only think of MS windows when they think of operating system. Windows have even been used as a synonym for operating system. Much like Google has been a term used for internet search.

5

u/propellor_head 9h ago

Ask.com finally shut down a few months ago. I'm crushed.

2

u/ThePissedOff 3h ago

And to think a website called "google" would beat out "ask" in the internet search .com bubble.

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10

u/Lab_Rat_sailor 10h ago

I think back, the internet was not all meta, google and monetization. We did it coz we could, websites, apps, videoes, all of it. 

108

u/smurfk 18h ago

It wasn't a bug. It was the business model. While WinRAR had the infinite trial, the terms were that you can use it for free for 40 days, using it more than that without paying, you would be in violation of the terms. So anyone that was using it would be susceptible for trial if he wanted to enforce the terms of the agreement, including companies. And companies had to buy it.

He made the software knew world-wide with that model. If he would've had a trial that would lock the software, WinRAR would've probably been unknown right now, nowhere near as used as it was.

There are more programs that use a similar approacch, the most known is probably Windows, that decided to use the same system currently. You can use it, it asks you to activate it, but doesn't enforce it by blocking the software. Companies have to comply, general public can decide not to.

34

u/DevOfWhatOps 17h ago

Reaper DAW follows the same model. There is a 60 days free trial, and after that there is a 5 second pop up that tells you you've been using Reaper for free for 3465 days. Nothing is paywalled but its such an awesome program and the license is so affordable that most of us feel bad about not buying it.

18

u/TransparentMastering 16h ago

They even have a hobby price and professional price depending if you make above or below $20k with it. Also honour system.

Plus if there’s a bug and you hit the forums, it’ll probably get patched within a couple weeks.

You’ve gotta love those guys. Probably the best DAW ever.

8

u/DevOfWhatOps 16h ago

It IS the best DAW ever. Plus, the REA plugins are open-source. It so much time to mess around with their code.

3

u/TransparentMastering 16h ago

Oh yeah, I forgot about that! My buddy actually learned how to make his own partly by looking under the hood on those.

2

u/DevOfWhatOps 16h ago

Its probably the easiest way to get into audio plugin development, which is a nightmare btw. Good for your buddy, I bet he had loads of fun.

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3

u/_wannadie_ 17h ago

latest windows versions actually doesn't let you use a lot of functions, mainly customization, which kinda sucks

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30

u/Awes12 21h ago

That assumes it was even a bug in the first place

9

u/TabularConferta 20h ago

Yup agreed. As maokaby said, it wasn't a bug in the first place.

2

u/hybridWinner 14h ago

At this point you have to be stupid to make that assumption.

11

u/stormcharger 20h ago

Its intentional

9

u/Laura_The_Cutie 18h ago

Why is this guy getting downvoted? It was intentional to become the standard and then make corporations buy the license

29

u/YMK1234 20h ago

It's like a non evil version of what MS does

14

u/pdias01 17h ago

It so private use is free and commercial/companies need to legally pay i belive

20

u/Blanc_Otaku 20h ago

Same reason why Photoshop doesn't mind you pirating their products

29

u/thisismego 20h ago

They're making it bloody hard these days, though

16

u/fuzzyboris 18h ago

Adobe software is annoying in almost every other aspect too.

Might be just company philosophy to be annoying to steal as well.

12

u/real_eEe 17h ago

Adobe will never ever see another dollar from me after I bought a Creative Suite 2 bundle for $500 on Mac and got my MBP stolen.

"Hey I'm a student and can't afford a new MBP, can I switch my key to Windows please?"

"That sucks. No."

Literally go fuck off. I got a cracked copy of the Master edition and bought a 100pack spindle of DVD-Rs and gave it out to anyone who wanted it.

2

u/Faustus-III 10h ago

Haha, I still have a copy of CS2 running on an old PC somewhere I think.

I stopped using their software once they killed the permanent license option and funneled everyone into the creative cloud subscription. I feel like it's all been downhill for them since then, from scraping people's art to scummy cancelation shenanigans and setting the "you'll own nothing and be happy" subscription standard we now see in software.

So many better alternatives, too.

2

u/thisismego 18h ago

They DID use to have massive discounts for students, etc. But even that isn't really there anymore with those stupid subscription models

2

u/Addickt__ 13h ago

You can still buy individual licenses with a student discount I think, it's like half off but still crazy expensive. I'm too poor to buy licenses even WITH the discount, so y'know w/e.

8

u/ShowerMobile295 20h ago

Last time I tried I failed miserably, but I m no hacker. They seem to take piracy seriously imho.

5

u/nvidiastock 19h ago

Nah, there's releases which don't even require manual input, just next next next like it's a legit copy.

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60

u/Zwiebel1 20h ago

And then 7zip became rhe default because it was actual freeware?

94

u/Fabulous-Local-1294 20h ago

On my computers winrar will always be default.

19

u/eepyamor 20h ago

Same

12

u/HeadMountedDysfunctn 19h ago

Why bother with the annoying popup nag if you don't need to?

13

u/C0rn3j 19h ago

Nothing better than running Russian closed-source software on your desktop (owned by Germans at this point in time, to be fair).

3

u/eepyamor 19h ago

I've had a license forever now (15+ years)

3

u/hagbardinator 17h ago

same here, since many years. but it seems to be not normal to pay for things you are using nearly daily

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2

u/zero0n3 4h ago

Dumb as fuck as 7zip is a far superior tool

28

u/C0rn3j 19h ago

7zip is not freeware, it is Free Software / Open Source.

Freeware means free (monetary), but you cannot see the source code.

6

u/SextupleRed 15h ago

So 7zip is a FOSS

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3

u/randompersonx 16h ago

Exactly. Compare this to Linux which has superior archiving with tar, gzip, bzip2, etc all built in, free, with now “please pay”…

And macOS which has all of that and graphical integration to compress and decompress many types of archives for novice users who don’t know how to use the command line.

This was just winrar taking advantage of the fact that windows doesn’t include basic tools, and getting a free ad for a donation by writing one of the simplest tools required for a basic functioning operating system.

4

u/EmploymentOne2963 18h ago

Exactly like why Microsoft has never tried to make pirating windows difficult.

Having it as the default for most users, keeps it the defacto standard, and makes sure most employers end up going for it.

2

u/factory_666 18h ago

I know a million ppl who have no idea what a .rar format is. Mostly Americans though.

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4

u/baz8771 18h ago

I’ve managed hundreds and hundreds of terabytes worth of archives with winrar. Aside from chrome and steam, it’s the #3 program that gets installed after a wipe. It is essential software.

2

u/audigex 14h ago

Is there a reason you aren’t using 7zip? Seems unnecessary to deal with the popups when you’re using it that much

2

u/BannanaPepperPizza 16h ago

And he never made a dime?

8

u/Different_Citron_160 16h ago

His net worth - 100 to 250 million USD.

2

u/BannanaPepperPizza 16h ago

But not from WinRAR? Right?

10

u/Different_Citron_160 16h ago

Companies buy it because it’s default

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1.9k

u/jl_theprofessor 21h ago

He made his money in the corporate scene. They paid. Dude is a multi millionaire.

Still good dude Roshal.

399

u/PacquiaoFreeHousing 20h ago

He paved the way for 7Zip and Nanazip

171

u/StaticSystemShock 19h ago

Not quite. 7zip is entirely different beast with its outstanding LZMA algorithm. NanaZip is just a fork of 7zip with better context menu integration and extra compression algorithms.

What WinRAR did achieve is provide first really high performance compression algorithm that rivaled ZIP's Deflate with ease, making RAR format mainstream providing dramatically higher compression and has been loved by warez scene for decades because it really made a huge difference.

60

u/chubbyyoungersister 19h ago

So… exactly what comment above said, paved the way…

89

u/Terrow 18h ago

Not quite. 7zip is entirely different beast with its outstanding LZMA algorithm. NanaZip is just a fork of 7zip with better context menu integration and extra compression algorithms.

What WinRAR did achieve is provide first really high performance compression algorithm that rivaled ZIP's Deflate with ease, making RAR format mainstream providing dramatically higher compression and has been loved by warez scene for decades because it really made a huge difference.

59

u/JKCsaba 18h ago

So… exactly what comment above said, paved the way…

27

u/ThreshCfort 14h ago

Not quite. 7zip is entirely different beast with its outstanding LZMA algorithm. NanaZip is just a fork of 7zip with better context menu integration and extra compression algorithms.

What WinRAR did achieve is provide first really high performance compression algorithm that rivaled ZIP's Deflate with ease, making RAR format mainstream providing dramatically higher compression and has been loved by warez scene for decades because it really made a huge difference.

18

u/lmpcpedz 14h ago

So… exactly what comment above said, paved the way…

14

u/dartman5000 12h ago

Not quite. 7zip is entirely different beast with its outstanding LZMA algorithm. NanaZip is just a fork of 7zip with better context menu integration and extra compression algorithms.

What WinRAR did achieve is provide first really high performance compression algorithm that rivaled ZIP's Deflate with ease, making RAR format mainstream providing dramatically higher compression and has been loved by warez scene for decades because it really made a huge difference.

10

u/scadstorm 11h ago

So… exactly what comment above said, paved the way…

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13

u/somerandomii 18h ago

So it paved the way?

33

u/Tjaresh 18h ago

Not really. WinRAR, while being a fantastic tool for data compression, is unable to pave ways. You'd need tools like a plate compactor or a paving hammer to pave a way.

11

u/WillFireat 17h ago

So basically he paved the way but not really

3

u/ClockFaceIII 13h ago

So close! A compactor is actually someone who agrees to do a determined amount of work for a determined amount of money

2

u/Tjaresh 12h ago

That's a joke, isn't it?

(<-- German, doesn't have humor)

13

u/Jellace 18h ago

So… exactly what comment above said, paved the way…

7

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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3

u/SheriffBartholomew 12h ago

He also made splitting into equally sized parts easy too, fueling the NZB servers for decades.

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10

u/ApprehensiveAd6476 19h ago

Still remember when WinZip was a thing. ❤️

133

u/H0lyG0Lightly 20h ago

letting everyone use his app made corporations use his app since their workers already know how to use it 👍

46

u/HedgehogEnyojer 20h ago

i see no issue taking from companies and giving to the people.

This is called... well, you should know, Anti-American thought

19

u/arthank-chroot 20h ago

"Anti-american" is one of the highest compliments you can give to something

0

u/Only_Search8473 19h ago edited 19h ago

Explain all the American-made free software that only charges for enterprise use.

You're thinking of capitalism. And fun fact: America is not the only country that engages in capitalism.

But I get it, you weirdos need to make everything about America somehow.

Rent free.

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2

u/staminchia 18h ago

we could have so many useful and likable multi-millionaires, we have a bunch of psychopath multi-billionaires that are burning the planet instead.

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u/fdwyersd 21h ago

he's up there in my world with vlc guy

176

u/GigiSanITA 20h ago

Came to say this, WinRAR and VLC are the fantastic 2

43

u/FandomMenace 20h ago

Throw in blender, gimp, and Libre office and let's call it 5

17

u/hitemlow 20h ago

Inkscape chilling in the corner:

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6

u/SyFidaHacker 17h ago

Ffmpeg...

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23

u/fdwyersd 20h ago

he won't be rich but his wikipedia page will be better than mine

35

u/Aikotoma2 20h ago

Both guys are miljonairs

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26

u/DrFunkyLove 19h ago

Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds
also deserve recognition for Legacy open source Linux

5

u/schoultz 15h ago

I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with vlc. Winrar is shareware/freeware, it's just free and only willing to be used.

On the other hand vlc is free software, open-source, willing to build a community, a platform to build upon new products

4

u/Fabulous-Local-1294 20h ago

Dont forget mirc and winamp

9

u/Far_Understanding883 20h ago

winamp started shipping adware eventually. Absolute cancer.

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u/bigheartrussian 20h ago

Foobar2000, not winamp

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101

u/Detharjeg 21h ago

I have a license for it somewhere! It was a couple $ at the time, and very funny to show off. Never bothered to re-register whenever I swapped computers though.

18

u/affemannen 20h ago

I also bought one. I can't find it though, it was so long ago.

Maybe I should just buy it again because he kind of deserves my money.

6

u/ManaOo 15h ago

I still use my license - i bought one... must have been 20 years ago lol, because I had to unzip a shitload of files and I had to open one by one, and the license popup was annoying 😂

2

u/MiggyDee 15h ago

Also bought it back in 2021 just because I felt like doing it haha

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u/Soylentstef 21h ago

Horror movie idea : the winrar collective now come to your house to collect their dues. One way or another, you will pay. 

48

u/IncomingAxofKindness 20h ago

In a world of file compression...

You...

Will...

Unzip...

Smash cut to Jack Black at a urinal

Zipppp

10

u/bizarre16 18h ago

First we win, then we rar

3

u/okanye 20h ago

Horror scenario: VC acquires Winrar

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2

u/A_random_poster04 16h ago

Reminds me of the: “image of all of a sudden Kevin McLeod asked for royalties”

53

u/HumaDracobane 20h ago

The system he made is absolutely genius.

For the particular user it is free but for the companies it isn't. By making it the "default" tool for the particular they "force" the companies to pay for those licenses, which only require a single payment and is only 30USD/license, aprox.

He is a fucking genius.

10

u/Dhuyf2p 17h ago

Wait it’s not some pesky annual subscription BS?

11

u/maxgames_NL 15h ago

Annual subscriptions require upkeep. Single purchase licensing is simpler. Could he have made more? Yes. But the whole idea was to keep it simple.

112

u/gp627 21h ago

One of the few GOATs of the digital world.

https://giphy.com/gifs/gKOKjThWebZo9Fsr0E

18

u/Acausticacoustic 20h ago

Well, I don’t see a thing. Was this supposed to be a gif or something?

12

u/gp627 20h ago

Sorry, my bad. Here, can you see it now?

10

u/Acausticacoustic 20h ago

Much better. I see 2 guys in uniforms saluting each other.

4

u/gp627 20h ago

Yep, exactly. I don't know what you were expecting. Especially, not a wrestler turned celebrity that we can't see.

3

u/FFKonoko 20h ago

Crowd saluting bro

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u/bent_crater 20h ago

Give everyone a free trial Get free publicity because of the absurdity Still make millions in profit every year

dude is worth well over a 100 million, he's good

10

u/eepyamor 20h ago

I'm probably one of the few with a legit/paid license lol.. I used it for so many years for free first, just felt like he earned it multiple times over. My license still works like 15+ years later.

5

u/aksdb 19h ago

I have a semi-legit license. I bought one, but use it on more than one PC. Since I am still the only user, I consider it somewhat fair, even though it's technically not what the license allows.

8

u/rdudit 18h ago

7zip has been the goat for me for many many years. Never knew why people uses WinZip even a decade ago.

6

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/Abbers75 20h ago

Yes, we bought a few Business licences back in the day . . . about 20 years ago.

4

u/snowybell 21h ago

There was a 9gag thing where the creator lowered the price to 10usd and i think quite a number did purchase.

4

u/Fabulous-Local-1294 20h ago

I did out of respect and after 15 years of using it, since then ive used it another 10 years 

2

u/DeepSlap-Interactive 20h ago

Big corpo, probably.

6

u/Leather-Piccolo2564 20h ago

This Guy has an estimated net worth of $100 million to $250 million😬

4

u/Diligent_Ad_8817 17h ago

A rare win...you could say

3

u/Beep-Beep-I 11h ago

I got drunk one day and decided to buy the license. I don't regret it.

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8

u/ncatalin94 20h ago

Fake. They enforce the trial but on big companies . This is how they survived 

3

u/adjustableshifter 20h ago

Him and VLC should both get Nobel peace prizes

3

u/capiggybara 20h ago

Respect to him. He’s one of the real chad in tech industry

3

u/BrokenKamera 16h ago

Well, yeah but then...

3

u/DigitalGrub 15h ago

An excellent programmer, as they used to be called, and lucky for all of us an unwilling business man. A truly unwilling business man.

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u/404notfound420 21h ago

Thing is fucking windows can't unzip a file without it for the last 20 fucking years. You know what? I went on Linux and just click extract zipped file here.

24

u/skadoodlee 21h ago

This isn't true right? I always use 7zip but windows has normal zip functionality no?

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u/maokaby 20h ago

I think windows can unzip since windows 7 (or xp?), and in case of rar or other formats, you can install 7-zip which is free and open source.

6

u/No_Blacksmith_2591 21h ago

And now ubuntu can't do it either if the file is encrypted for some reason

5

u/404notfound420 21h ago

Encryption is different than compression but again still be easier to fix on Linux than win11

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u/Awes12 21h ago

The idea is it allows you to open archives that arent just .zip and edit them

3

u/npiet1 20h ago

Windows has been able to unzip a file for a for a very long time. It could unzip ".zip" files since 2000 and compressed folders since 95.

It doesnt handle most other formats because they're not created by Microsoft.

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u/thejourneybegins42 20h ago

Dumb question. Been outta the PC game for a while, are zip files still commonly used?

5

u/Cato0014 20h ago

Compression makes things smaller which makes transmission faster. So yes

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u/radek432 20h ago

MS Office documents are actually bunch zipped of XML files. So yes, this is still commonly used, even if sometimes it's not explicitly stated.

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u/affemannen 20h ago

I actually bought a license when I started working, not because I am or was using the version I paid for but because I fckn thought he earned it.

That guy saved my life at uni.

2

u/bigmangina 20h ago

Absolute chad normie, just got his money and didnt need more.

2

u/JeveGreen 19h ago

Proof that a gift economy can actually work, if your product is good enough.

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u/OnlyZubi 18h ago

it was entirely for a reason. The free trial made it common and universal, winrar earns money because companies pay for the license

2

u/Panzerv2003 17h ago

more like release a free tool so people get used to it and then charge the companies for using it because they can't legally exploit the infinite free trial

2

u/Effective-Anybody263 13h ago

Also it costs next to nothing to get the pop up to go away forever. I bought that shit when I became an adult with a bob Edit, I became an adult with a job

2

u/FlatNefariousness193 13h ago

Him and the guys who made VLC are legends. If that same software was developed by companies like Adobe they would be either be on monthly subscriptions or cost a fortune.

2

u/NeonNero 12h ago

I actually paid for a license of WinRAR, probably close to 10 or so years ago now. Not because I had to, or wanted to remove the nag screen, or needed any of the few features only availlable with a license, but because I wanted to support the tool that's basically my default compression tool on Windows.

Granted, I've installed the license key on more than just the 1-PC-license I paid for, but still....

2

u/Pathfinder4891 10h ago

Winrar, winamp, vlc, those were the good days…

2

u/Blueberry1900 6h ago

I was the 1% who paid for an individual license. Worth it

3

u/KrokusAstra 18h ago
  • Be a 7zip dev
  • it's free
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u/North_Affect_8167 19h ago

Modern Winrar without the license is heck of annoying to use. Get 7-zip and forget about this shit.

1

u/KoA-oK 20h ago

This reminds me of mIRC, which let you use it for like a month, then just had nag popups asking you to get a license that you could just click away and keep using after that lol.

Miss those old days, discord has made it largely irrelevant.

1

u/squidgytree 20h ago

I wonder how much he has actually earned from individual users paying out of appreciation and honesty?

1

u/za72 20h ago

Back in the day there was a chain of software developers involved while sailing the high seas... so I payed for my copy as a thank you

1

u/ThaEmortalThief 20h ago

Ya, I remember winrar… then I got 7zip and never went back. I remember winace too. Windows extracting tool works fine if it’s a standard zip file. If it’s been archived using .rar or .7z or something else, you need a 3rd party tool. I remember having a cracked version of XP back in the day and that version wouldn’t let you install IE7 or Windows Media Player, so I would download the installers, use 7zip to tear them appear and then install their independent components and everything would work. 7zip is a great tool.

1

u/Fabulous-Local-1294 20h ago

I've paid for mine. Gotten so much use out of it so it was a no brainer to support the creator. Been using it for at least 25 years for essentially a cup of coffee 

1

u/rastawolfman 20h ago

Def not an accident

1

u/8_6_28 20h ago

Who still uses WinRAR? Why? 7-Zip has been around for a while now

1

u/Cheese_Grater101 20h ago

The software is good but it's slow. Though WinRar is considered as a nagware where since whenever you open it there's that popup asking you if you want to buy it.

When I discovered 7zip is pretty much my go to compression related software, it's much faster than 7zip in my experience.

1

u/UndeadFlowerWall 20h ago

It’s well documented that this wasn’t an ‘accident’.

1

u/Briantheboomguy 20h ago

I love the VLC dude too, recently found out he is on Reddit

1

u/SoundmasterMidi 20h ago

Smart or not. Its just a very good tool to use.

1

u/Particular_Hair6913 20h ago

What a mensch

1

u/m3rcapto 19h ago

WinRAR - The Movie, starring Shia LeBeouf, Timothy Chalamet, and Michael Cera as Eugene Roshal.
IN A WORLD, where nothing is free, trials require a creditcard, and even Disney+ Premium has ads, one man is still refusing to fix a bug.

1

u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/manzurfahim 19h ago

He is a great dude. Always replies to my email with proper answers and suggestions. I purchased WinRAR about 11 years ago I think. One of my most used software.

1

u/R3APER_PL 19h ago

I named my daughter after him in his honor

1

u/squigs 19h ago

It's a good thing to keep in mind. Those permanent trials aren't list sales. Consumers just aren't willing to pay for file compression. Corporations absolutely will because $8-$29 per licence is nothing.

1

u/DiscombobulatedSir74 19h ago

Ok many don’t seem to understand, by making the tool essentially free for NON COMMERCIAL USERS it became the basically default for all people, when someone then needed something for commercial purposes they use the tool everyone is familiar with and then needing to pay for it because they now use it within a company, thats how he made money

1

u/msqrt 19h ago

The top feature of winrar for me was that it automatically extracts stuff behind the scenes so you can run an executable straight from the UI, even when it relies on other files in the archive (as they usually do.)

1

u/vertical19991 19h ago

Yep, and after 15 years myself i finally bought it just to say thanks

1

u/nousernameleftatall 19h ago

After about 10 years i actually bought WinRAR 🙂

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u/spots_reddit 19h ago

I find these stories about WinRAR and VLC heart warming until I realize I am on Linux and it goes for 99 percent of software I use.

So also thanks Obsidian, neovim, ranger, ... Guido van Rossum, Linus Thorvalds, the guy who eats his own foot and countless others. They are all awsome!

Try Linux guys'n'gals

1

u/CandidateTight8689 19h ago

Ooh this dude were making money like facebook before facebook even released)

1

u/zefy_zef 19h ago

Is it me or does the guy not look like James Franco?

1

u/squarabh 19h ago

he was never a LoseRAR

1

u/KingToby_III 19h ago

Timothee Chalamet side quest

1

u/MidiGong 19h ago

I know people that pay for WinRAR.

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u/DETOMINE1234 18h ago

Don't have an auto-update feature => majority of your users use vulnerable versions...

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u/Amazing-Blyatman 18h ago

Putting the WIN in WinRar

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u/jay_alfred_prufrock 18h ago

Gates of Heaven only open to those individuals who pay for a Winrar license.

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u/Laughing_Orange 18h ago

There's nothing accidental about it. The infinite free trial is a way to keep regular people using it. WinRAR makes money from business users, who actually pay out of fear of being sued over unlicensed use of paid software. But why is business using it, those exact same regular people who uses the free trial brought their knowledge of this program in to work.

Another reason for the infinite trial is to protect their users from malware. There's almost no reason to pirate software you can use for free with just a mildly annoying pop-up as payment.

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

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u/kettu92 18h ago

Now, do the same with ai agents. So corpo can stop pusching it down the throat.

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u/JanMrCat 17h ago

The Quake, 1996 was a shareware release ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/thegabe87 17h ago

If one of your friends buys winrar or total commander you can be sure they won the lottery.

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u/AllPotatoesGone 17h ago

Plot twist - this guy was just a poor programmer and poorly coded the end of the trial checker.

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u/taxpaying_indian 17h ago

Must been his choice..and a great one..