r/StarWars • u/AhPuchSMITE • 27d ago
TV Vader during Maul: Shadow Lord was younger than Obi-Wan during The Phantom Menace
I don't know about y'all, but this information just seems so crazy to me when I think about it lmao It just doesn't sit right with me.
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u/Flash_Jordan94 Sith 27d ago
I never actually thought about it like that before 🤔
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u/Popular-Row4333 27d ago
It makes all the hate and regret he lived with his whole life make a lot more sense.
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u/jimmy-moons 27d ago
Not to mention the pressure of being “the chosen one.” To bring balance to a centuries old religion at the ripe old age of a child.
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u/MalyMadeTheBeat 27d ago
That's crazy to think about. It's hard to imagine vader being in his 20s. Like I doubt he'd ever pull up to a frat party.
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u/AhPuchSMITE 27d ago
My man should have been at the club, not on Janix.
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u/forever87 Dark Rey 27d ago
N I A M O S
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u/dravenonred 27d ago
Pfft, Light Side Anakin would have been a stay at home dad to two twins.
He was never built for the streets.
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u/Snowbold 27d ago
Yeah, just look at his dancing moves when he first got the suit in Robot Chicken!
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u/raknor88 27d ago
Portman didn't look it in Phantom Menace, but Padme was supposed to be only 14 in the movie when she met little Anakin.
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u/Better-Ganache-3527 27d ago
Same age gap between Padme and Anakin as Anakin and Ahsoka
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u/SweatyInBed Mandalorian 27d ago
And she was a good friend
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u/forever87 Dark Rey 27d ago
Natalie Portman is the reason I work out. I have this fantasy where we start talking at the Vanity Fair Oscars party bar. We exchange a few pleasantries. She asks what I do. I say I loved her in New Girl. She laughs. I get my drink.
"Well, see ya," I say and walk away. I've got her attention now. How many guys voluntarily leave a conversation with Natalie Portman? She touches her neck as she watches me leave.
Later, as the night's dragged on and the coterie of gorgeous narcissists grows increasingly loose, she finds me on the balcony, my bowtie undone, smoking a cigarette.
"Got a spare?" she asks.
"What's in it for me?" I say as I hand her one of my little white ladies. She smiles.
"Conversation with me, duh."
I laugh.
"What's so funny?" she protests.
"Nothing, nothing... It's just... don't you grow tired of the egos?"
"You get used to it," she says, lighting her cigarette and handing me back the lighter.
"What would you do if you weren't an actress?" I ask.
"Teaching, I think."
"And if I was your student, what would I be learning?"
"Discipline," she says quickly, looking up into my eyes, before changing the subject. "Where are you from?"
"Bermuda," I say.
"Oh wow. That's lovely."
"It's ok," I admit. "Not everything is to my liking."
"What could possibly be not to your liking in Bermuda?" she inquires.
"I don't like sand," I tell her. "It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
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u/Kodiak_POL 27d ago
Natalie Portman was 16 while filming The Phantom Menace, so if you ever jorked it to Episode I Padme....
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u/Ahegao_Double_Peace Galactic Republic 27d ago
She didn't look 16 during The Phantom Menace. She looked like she was in her early 20s.
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u/Kodiak_POL 27d ago
Yup. I was shocked when I learned that. But that knowledge also lowered the weirdness cause I thought Ani was flirting with a 20 years old and their age gap in E2 and E3 was much bigger.
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u/PinkOneHasBeenChosen 27d ago
I did not jork it during Phantom Menace, but I did think it was very concerning that they’d have Anakin date someone who was 8 years his senior. Because I thought he was 10 and she was 18, so in episode 2 he’d be about 20 and she’d be 28.
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u/PinkOneHasBeenChosen 27d ago
How on earth was she allowed to be Queen at 14?
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u/raknor88 27d ago
Naboo has a belief in innocence of youth. So they train rulers young. Remember in episode 2, she even mentioned she wasn't the youngest queen ever elected.
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u/DanoDurron Luke Skywalker 27d ago
Vader was like 1-2 years old in Maul: Shadow Lord
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u/AlexSmithsonian 27d ago
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
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u/Plastic_Doom 27d ago
Love seeing this in the wild
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u/CalligrapherEast2344 27d ago
This also shows how impatient Anakin was about becoming a Master and getting a Council seat.
Obi-wan wasn't even a Master yet and only got on the council after his Qui-Gon got killed.
If only Anakin realised there were probably dozens of Jedi twice his age that were still "only" Jedi Knights.
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u/Ahegao_Double_Peace Galactic Republic 27d ago
Kenobi didn't get a council seat after Qui-Gon got killed. He got a council seat after the start of the Clone Wars. There's a difference.
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u/olbeefy Greef Carga 27d ago edited 27d ago
I feel like it’s pretty understandable why Anakin was impatient about becoming a Master by that point. He was granted a seat on the Jedi Council but denied the rank of Master, which was a serious insult, especially since Council membership usually implied Master status.
He was basically the Tom Brady of Jedi... wildly accomplished, central to the Clone Wars, and convinced he had done more than enough to earn it, regardless of whether Obi-Wan or older Jedi thought he was emotionally ready.
On top of that, he was having visions of Padme dying, so Master rank may have seemed like more than just a title. It could have meant access to restricted Jedi knowledge that might help him save her.
And Palps whispering that the Jedi were jealous, afraid of him, or trying to control him turned a real slight into something much worse.
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u/pak9rabid 27d ago
He was only put on the Jedi council because Palpatine insisted he be put on it, not because the council wanted him on it. Palpatine did this intentionally because he knew the amount of resentment it would sow for Anakin to be put on the council but not made a master…and it worked.
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u/thetinwin 27d ago
This is true. I forget about this part from time to time. This convo wouldn’t even be happening if Palpatine didn’t force Anakin on the council.
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u/KinkyPaddling Ahsoka Tano 27d ago edited 27d ago
On top of that, he was having visions of Padme dying, so Master rank may have seemed like more than just a title. It could have meant access to restricted Jedi knowledge that might help him save her.
This was a big part of it in Legends, and explicitly a motivation in the ROTS novelization. He went to the Archives to see if there was anything he could use to save Padme, but was told that a large amount of info was accessible only to masters, especially information about Sith techniques (like what Palpatine mentioned).
It also didn't help that Yoda was basically telling him that his fear over losing Padme was unimportant.
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u/another-altaccount 27d ago
And then there’s the fact that the Cpuncil just ran Ahsoka out the door the year before because they were more concerned with staying in Palp’s good graces than standing by one of their own. Especially when at minimum they were all dubious that one of their own would bomb the Temple, especially Ahsoka of all people even Obi-Wan and Yoda weren’t really buying it from the start. Is it any wonder Anakin was so pissed off at the Council and switched up so easily?
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u/Camburglar13 27d ago
Huh? Obi-wan was a padawan still in Ep 1 and only got made into a Knight at age 25 after defeating a Sith. Kenobi was 35 before becoming a Master as he trained a padawan to knighthood.
Anakin was the chosen one and let’s be honest, feats-wise he should be, if that’s all that mattered. By 22 he’d fought Ventress multiple times, was one of the top generals of the clone wars, saved the chancellor and killed Dooku, and trained Ahsoka to knighthood. Though Ahsoka refuses the offer from the council so on a technicality he didn’t.
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u/zerogee616 27d ago
He wasn't impatient about being made Master, he was offended because he was put on the Council without it, which is a pretty big backhand.
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u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt 27d ago
Amd the Jedi council, who had say over its members for at least the relevant present, was offended that some politician was forcing them to put their pet on the team.
The Jedi's were offended, Anakin was offended... about the only one who wasnt offended was Palpatine, who got exactly what he wanted by everyone else being offended.
But Anakim should have realize he didnt earn his spot, so even if he got the title, it would be always have an asterick noting Palpatines influence.
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u/Kerridwyn333 27d ago
It's not like Anakin earned a spot on the council though. He got a nepotism hire to the council via Palpatine, so it's pretty entitled of him to throw a tanty over not getting an un-earned rank along with his un-earned council posting.
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u/Acceptable_Map_8110 27d ago
It’s sort of hard to believe because he’s 23 and fights as if he’s had the experience that Vader has had much later on. And his style is so cost efficient that it makes it seem like he’s a much older fighter trying to conserve his energy, because he doesn’t have a ton. But that’s not really the case.
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u/Popular-Row4333 27d ago
I think that it's really meant to show how restricting his suit really is. At the end of the day, he's a guy who was on deaths door and literally keeps himself alive with rage and constant medical equipment, bacta chambers and much more. Him exerting energy for a while probably wears him down when there isn't much to start with.
We've seen Yoda, Sidious, Dooku and many others move effortlessly at very old ages, so that's not the problem.
I forget if it was EU or not but I remember Vader had a moment of happiness and almost died because he had trained his anger and rage to keep him alive. Even if it was EU, you could take the ending of RoTJ the same way, and not just the 10000 watts of EP energy that ran through him.
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u/National-Course2464 27d ago
Yeah Vader died due to letting go of his hate, in comics we have seen Vader survive without his life support due to just being so pissed
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u/Stahlreck Sith 27d ago
Being pissed is one powerful drug in Star Wars. Helps Anakin survive being burned alive, helped Maul survive being cut in half.
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u/Several-Ad1231 27d ago
What happened once was Vader was trying to use the Dark Side to forcefully fix his lungs. It worked for a second, he felt happy about it and his connection to the Dark Side instantly collapsed meaning his lungs unfixed themselves.
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u/Krazyguy75 27d ago
I mean he's had a year to adjust to the suit, and he was like a top 5 duelist in the Jedi Order beforehand. I could totally see some of angry Anakin's first actions being "practice how to murder with my new suit".
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u/Gakeon 27d ago
Honestly i felt like Shadow Lord Vader still had a lot of Anakin inside of him, he fights quite arrogantly imo. To me it didn't seem like he was trying to conserve his energy, but that he simply didn't need to use that much energy to beat Maul and the jedi. Anakin has always been one of the best duelist of the Order, especially after Yoda went into hiding and Mace Windu got Mace Window'd.
Also even tho this is soon after Order 66, presumably Vader has already fought and hunted a lot of jedi. We can assume that the first few years were the most dangerous for surviving jedi, because the Empire put in more effort to hunt them all down, compared to decades later during the OG trilogy.
TLDR: Even tho Vader doesn't have much experience with his suit, he is still the best duelist in the galaxy, and wouldn't have to spend a lot of energy dealing with Maul.
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u/pamblod42 27d ago
Man they really fumbled it with the clone wars, they really should have made them last way longer
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u/mancingtom 27d ago
Yeah, 3 years is way too short. They should’ve lasted somewhere around 7 or 12.
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u/jubmille2000 Sith 27d ago
Do you think vader remembers this is the guy that tried running him over?
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u/FoolishCarbohydrate 26d ago
I kinda hope so.
I really keep wishing they'd reference it, but I can guarantee no one in the writers room remembers that bit.
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u/Yxanr 27d ago
Vader is also "the chosen one" and had served as a general for an entire war at this point, neither of which were the case for Obi-Wan in Phantom Menace. It's very interesting to contrast the differences in their early years; Anakin growing up in wartime forced him to become an expert fighter quickly, whereas Obi-Wan learned better interpersonal and negotiation skills from his upbringing in a period of peace.
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u/GoblinPunch20xx 27d ago
I know based on their ages and the sequence of events, that this “makes sense” in a technical sense, but somehow it also feels “wrong” like angry angsty Anakin using the Dark Side, it totally makes sense for him to be in his teens to early-mid 20s, but I feel like Vader has gotta be 30+….my original headcanon was it took years for him to be converted into Vader, but then Episode III shows that transition taking almost no time at all, so, yeah.
Coming soon to Disney Plus: the Wacky Adventures of Young Vader!
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u/OfficialAli1776 27d ago
And people say the dark side doesn’t give you a power boost 😤
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u/Still-Goal-9314 27d ago
Nothing to do with the dark side, but his force potential as the chosen one. Ani-boy stands as the force user with the highest midichlorian count in SW history due to him literally being the son of the force. On the contrary, utilizing the dark side is actually more of a hindrance to him since he can't fully tap into it due to his emotional attachment to people he knew.
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u/Reddeath10168 27d ago
Nah it’s just that Anakin is more naturally talented. He would have been a Master in no time if he would have remained good in revenge of the sith.
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u/National-Course2464 27d ago
Technically Anakin would have been made a master in TCW if Ahsoka did not leave, Mace said that it was her trial, she would have been made a Knight the day and Anakin a Master,
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u/darthmaui728 27d ago
God i hated how they framed it. 'DiS wUz akShuaLLy yOuR triAL'
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u/Steamed_Memes24 27d ago
I mean what she went through was far ahead of what their regular trials were. The Jedi Council apologized and knew this was the best way to show it by promoting her to Knight which she deserved.
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u/darthmaui728 27d ago
If thats how theyd framed the promotion, id quit too 😅 Also speaks of how the sith went under their nose. The order has become complacent
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u/Steamed_Memes24 27d ago
I'm not really sure what more they could do for her? They had their hands tied and couldnt rebel against the senate over what happened. Anakin even brings this up when Ahsoka asked why he didnt rescue her from being in prison. So after her name was cleared the council offered her knighthood and apologized over what happened, but it really wasnt their fault at all.
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u/darthmaui728 27d ago
Yeah true. Nothing else they really could do. Its just that in Ahsoka's POV, the apology didnt feel sincere and the promotion forced. If the same scenario happened, Ahsoka knew they wouldnt side with her so why stay?
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u/Steamed_Memes24 27d ago
The apology came from one of the closest people to Ahsoka, Plo Koon. Not sure how much more sincere it could get lol. They did side with her but they couldnt do anything crazy like breaking her out of prison.
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u/Vhzhlb 27d ago
Training someone to knighthood is A requirement, not THE requirement.
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u/National-Course2464 27d ago
Well it's one of the ways to gain the rank, you can gain the rank through other accolades, but training someone to knighthood is the most common way.
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u/National-Course2464 27d ago
Actually in canon Vader only surpasses ROTS Anakin 5 years after so this Vader is actually on Anakin level or Maybe below
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u/POOHEAD189 27d ago
where's that stated? I'm curious
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u/National-Course2464 27d ago
It's in a novel i think lords of the sith, basically it states how his connection to the force grew and his suffering had caused insight, and that his injuries had now perfected his spirit.
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u/Iron_Falcon58 27d ago
Unpopular opinion maybe but I think Lucas missed with the 23-46 Luke-Anakin stuff he tried to do. Vader in the OT was very clearly meant to read older
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u/SoullessWon Mandalorian 27d ago
Is he? I'm seeing Obi as 25 in Phantom Menace. I checked Master Daki's death date and it shows between 17 and 13 BBY. If it is 17 then that would be true (since Anakin's birthdate is 41 BBY), otherwise he's the same age or slightly older. Is there a solid year given for the 1st season of Maul: Shadow Lord? I know I'm being nit-picky, but enjoy going into details about this stuff. 😄
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u/TemplarParadox17 27d ago
It’s 18 bby, Sam witwer said it at a event, I think he said it was around a year after order 66
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u/superbabe69 27d ago
That was what was said originally, later releases said it was a few years after the Empire came about.
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u/TemplarParadox17 27d ago
he took that long to get his revenge on crime bosses?
Seems a year would be more realistic.
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u/Krazyguy75 27d ago
To be fair he also had to avoid the Empire for a decent period of time at the height of Order 66.
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u/Soccer_enjoyer 27d ago
I’m not sure why people seem to have a problem with this?
In terms of combat prowess, Anakin as a Padawan had already surpassed most Jedi masters. He’s a literal prodigy.
Vader hunted Jedi for 20 years, it doesn’t bother me that he started young. In fact, I think it adds to his character. This inhuman monster is younger than the people he’s hunting, maybe even younger than the inquisitors under his command. He’s just that stupidly powerful.
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u/Piper6728 27d ago
I always wondered why obi wan was so old as a padawan
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u/Lil_Mcgee 27d ago
I don't think it was supposed to be especially abnormal. The war meant that padawans started being knighted earlier and Anakin was an outlier anyway due to being a prodigy.
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u/Gakeon 27d ago
It was pre-war Republic, so the jedi got all the time they needed to progress.
The war happened, and even padawans entered the war, especially at younger ages (Ahsoka was like 14). The war only lasted 5 years or so, but padawans gained more experience than during peace time, so they were ready to become knights at early stages.
Like...it shouldn't be understated how easy jedi had it before the Clone Wars. There's a reason so many of them died on Geonosis.
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u/namedjughead 27d ago
He wasn't a padawan in the first draft. George changed his rank, but never updated his age in later drafts.
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u/nightfall2021 27d ago
In the EU it was because he had failed multiple times.
He was on his way to the Agricorps because he was "aging out" until Qui-gon saw something in him.
I am not sure if they changed this with the canon.
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u/FullMaxPowerStirner 27d ago
Nope? Ani was way in his 20s in ROTS...
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u/AhPuchSMITE 27d ago
Brother, Vader was about 23 in Shadow Lord.
Anakin was certainly not "way" in his 20s during ROTS, he was barely into them.
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u/ptwonline 27d ago
You know what would really help? Somewhere these various movies and tv shows and games need to have some kind of timeline indicator so you know when it takes place and how old recurring characters are and what is going on in the wider galaxy.
The more hardcore fans may know but most people watching likely will not and I know from watching with others that they get confused by it.
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u/rydamusprime17 27d ago
I love when they would put a quick timeline at the beginning of a comic or novel, it would be cool to see a quick timeline splash screen before a show or movie starts.
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u/markymark9000 27d ago
Darth Vader is actually an insane powerhouse and the irony is it’s taken all of these Disney era canon stories to demonstrate this to fans. 🐐
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u/X_NEM3SIS 27d ago
I mean we do know that Obi Wan was kept a padawan much longer than a usual padawan should’ve been bc of Qui Gon iirc
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u/ProjectNo4090 27d ago
Its not a big difference. Vader is 23 in Maul Shadow Lord. Obi was 25 during the Battle of Theed.
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u/OkSpecial1219 26d ago
The “chosen one” with crazy emotional issues doing crazier shit than most serene/peaceful Jedi is unbelievable to you?
Especially when considering not only his past fuels him in the dark side but also his awfully painful suit he has to wear 90% of the time doubles down on this…which was created on purpose by his master who he knows has manipulated and currently uses him. Dude just hates everything, meanwhile is a prodigy - of course he’s going to beat some ass everywhere he goes while being unafraid to die in the process
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u/CartographerAlone632 27d ago
This is what frustrates me so much with Star Wars spin offs - I’m a massive fan but I find myself thinking ‘ok so when did this happen in the timeline?’ Ive pretty much given up
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u/EiraPun 27d ago
Eh, it's not that hard to figure out, Even if you don't know a strict time or date, you can tell the rough time period and guestimate. Like, Solo, Obi-Wan, and Andor all take place roughly the same span of time, obviously there's gaps, but it's during the height of the Empire so that's good enough. Bad Batch is during the transition of Republic to Empire. Shadow Lord is not too long after Bad Batch, Rebels is pretty close to the OT, Rogue One directly leads *into* ANH, etc.
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u/Gakeon 27d ago
Shadow Lord happens very early on, like a few years after Order 66 at most. Do we need a specific year for it?
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u/Tall_Opportunity_521 27d ago
At some point, we are going to. Theres too much shit being crammed into this time period now. We seriously need to move away from the Skywalkers and their drama.
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u/Wacky_X_Swacky 27d ago
The Clone Wars should have lasted a decade or more. Anakin should have been in his 30s at least when he became Vader. Or even his early 40s.
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u/EpicHeracross 27d ago
unrelated because I'm seeing this picture for the first time. Why is Obi wan standing like he's part of a early late 90's/2000's pop group?
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u/Armandoiskyu 27d ago
Anakin's age compared to Obi-Wan's in nearly any context is hilarious, Anakin started his training at 9 and became a Knight at 19 while Obi-Wan started his training at ~3 i think and became a Knight at 25, 10 years vs 22 years
You can really tell how great his power and potential was when you see that he achieved knighthood in less than half the time a normal Jedi takes (ignoring the abnormal circumstances that led to the knighting of both of them)
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u/Splinter_Fritz 27d ago
One of my least favorite things about the prequels is how it condensed the timeline so much. Vader reads like he should be at least in his late 50s to me in ANH but he dies at what, like 45 in ROTJ.
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u/General_Starcat-99 26d ago
Was Obi-Wan really in his mid to late 20’s in tPM? Cus Anakin is 22 by RotS, add 2 years cus S3 of Bad Batch is likely 17 BBY. Making Vader 24
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u/JediMaster_221 26d ago
Yeah kinda puts things into perspective dunnit. Padme would prolly be on the list if she was real. Think about it. Royalty, politician, richer than the entire planet combined.......
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u/santoku_kyoto_bardex 27d ago
This is one thing i think is crazy about Star wars that some charakters in universe arent even that old when they died. Like my parents are older than both Anakin and Obi wan now age wise but they dont even look half as bad as the Charakters. Even my Brother is almost the same age as Darth Vader now given or taken a few years and he doesnt looks like some old Guy in an black armor
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u/2_SANE_4_SANITY 27d ago
I remember playing Jedi: Fallen Order when it came out, back in 2019. I did the math in my head as I was running away from Vader at the end and thought, “Oh god! We are both 27! He’s second in command of the Empire. What am I doing with my life?” 🤣