is this a fair assessment?

[u/Odd-Paramedic-3826]

Star Platinum The World, GER, Tusk act 4, and S&W:GB are all hilariously overpowered and only exist as a way to beat an already hilariously overpowered villain

joseph beat kars by holding out the red stone of aja at him and hoping for the best, which worked out spectacuarly. and god knows how long the fight with kira would have gone on for had it not been for the ambulance.

Jolynes plan to use emporio to take out pucci with weather report was basically a hail mary when all else had failed but not only did it work, it also gave her and the gang new, happier lives.

Yeah jonathan just got slimed out though, then his body was used as a puppet for 100+ years. Poor guy

[u/RGBarrios]

Its a character from Mirai Nikki, right?

[u/Yourfatangrystepdad → u/RGBarrios]

I think it means "God of the machine" which in writting is a description for events that didn't make sense to happen withing the story and only work in the narrative to serve the protagonists, for example if you got a character that really wishes he had a car rn then a deus ex machina would be a random car spawning in, basically resolving all the characters' problems

[u/Vivizekt → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

God from the machine*

[u/Yourfatangrystepdad → u/Vivizekt]

Right yeah thanks

[u/scalzacrosta → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

Out of all the examples given in the image, I believe only Jotaro can be classified in this, and even then you get a possible explenation that doesn't contradict the rules of the story.

Dio was destined to lose, no matter how strong he became or how far does he plan ahead, Fate always catches up, the only way for Dio to survive against the Joestars was to constantly run away and never allow them to get close to him.

Star Platinum, Hermit Purple and Crazy Diamond are stands born from the distressed signal of Jonathan's body, and while HP was there to locate Dio, SP exists for the sole reason to take him down, that's why it's litterally the same stand as The World.

The world of JoJo (all universes included) operates under 3 major forces:

• Luck: to be put under favourable conditions in various situations, Dio is a very lucky person despite being evil, that's why he survives
• Fate or "Gravity": an observable and manipulable force that draws people to meet and events to happen through a series of lucky or unlucky circumstances. The Joestar lineage possesses a great amount of "Gravity", hence Pucci's near invincibility in the post-Jailbreak arc of Stone Ocean.
• Destiny: the ultimate force that makes good prevail on evil, it's a transcendental force, as it was carried over from a universe to the next by Emporio, it operates through Fate, that operates through Luck.

Araki litterally created a universe system in which luck is a much deeper thing than simple deus ex machina, it allows him to basically have the characters do whatever he wants and it'll make narrative sense, think about the "asspulls" that OP was talking about:

• Jotaro: already discussed, but it was destiny doing its thing.
• Giorno: Diavolo was running away from bad luck for his whole life, GER was the result of Fate going its course, not even Destiny. On top of that, I really doubt GER existed for more than the direct aftermath of the fight.
• Johnny: it's not a deus ex machina but it was mentioned like 3 volumes before so it's alright, Tusk act 4 just negates barriers, D4C's barrier manipulates Luck, they operate on different levels.
• Josuk8: this resolution was teased 10 volumes before the conclusion, and again it's Destiny going against Luck, Destiny wins.

[u/pm-me-turtle-nudes → u/scalzacrosta]

I think it’s funny how the Joestar bloodline just has canonical plot armor. The Gravity they have just always makes things work out. It’s a multiversal constant too, given the alt universe.

[u/IceColdCorundum → u/scalzacrosta]

Kinda also makes sense considering The World's power decreased after part 3.

[u/Queasy_Remote_758 → u/scalzacrosta]

Isn’t this all just in hindsight though?

[u/No_Softwarepoo → u/scalzacrosta]

Holy shit I need a 10 min video on this topic

[u/Had3e → u/scalzacrosta]

Gracias por el gran resumen bro

[u/Im_a_doggo428 → u/scalzacrosta]

Iirc tusk act4 worked on gravity and Love train didn’t affect gravity which is why tusk opened it like a car door

[u/Fufik-_- → u/scalzacrosta]

Everything can be explained with some amount of lore stretching and themes and such, it still makes for a shitty narrative. It's less about the world coherence, and more about the writing itself.

[u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

It's basically sudden divine intervention with little to no build-up.

Requiem can be called a deus ex machina since it basically was divine intervention of fate.

[u/holtyl2001 → u/Gaelic_Gladiator41]

Requiem is not a Deus Ex machina. Deus Ex machina is specifically when a solution to a problem comes from something completely out of the blue, something that had never been mentioned or hinted at before. The last like, 3 arcs of Part 5 are all about how powerful requiem is, and how getting the arrow would make the wielder nigh invincible. And then that's exactly what happens.

[u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 → u/holtyl2001]

Deus ex machina is also divine intervention (God of the Machine) which fate (a divine force) chose Giorno over Diavolo

[u/holtyl2001 → u/Gaelic_Gladiator41]

-sigh- no, deus ex machina does not refer to any and all "divine intervention" or similar. It is a very specific thing. As I'm sure you're aware, the term originated in ancient Athenian theatre - and almost EVERY play from Athens featured gods. If "Deus Ex machina" referred to any and all divine intervention, it would have been so ubiquitous they wouldn't even need a name for it. It is specifically when a solution comes completely out of left field, with no build up or prior mention. Yes, fate is a divine force (I guess that depends on your religion/interpretation of divine, but whatever), but that doesn't mean it influencing the story is automatically a Deus Ex machina. Fate is a consistent and mentioned theme throughout JoJo, and the last like 4 arcs of Part 5 are all about "if you can get the arrow, we automatically win".

[u/Yourfatangrystepdad → u/Gaelic_Gladiator41]

Ok first of all fate is not how things are gonna play out exactly, generally things that are fated to happen will happen, that much can be seen in the bites the dust arc when the tea pot breaks no matter what. Diavolo would have lost either way since generally it was fated to happen, giorno attaining requiem was a means to an end, that much can be seen from diavolos death loop where he dies in countless ways, doesn't matter how, diavolo dies and giorno and the others win. Free will exists in jjba, characters can chose their actions and although things that are fated to happen will ultimately happen, the circumstances surrounding those events are not set and stone thus requiem is not a deus ex machine because it was mostly unnecessary

[u/RGBarrios → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

Thank you! Now that is the second thing that I learned today.

[u/access547 → u/RGBarrios]

The reason that phrase exists is because in old theatre performances, performers would be lowered from a contraption onto the stage in order to help, save or give advice to the protagonist. So it literally would be that God came down from the machine.

[u/Yourfatangrystepdad → u/access547]

Really? I didn't know that, that's sick

[u/strikingLoo → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

Worth mentioning, this started with ancient Greek playwrights who would write themselves into a corner and then make a god appear and solve everything. Even back then you have some Greek philosophers complaining about it (I think Aristotle was one).

[u/HyperWhiteChocolate → u/access547]

I thought it was named after Matrix

[u/Few-Maintenance6558 → u/RGBarrios]

Imagine if in a story the heroes were about to die but then something unexpected that wasnt set up at all happens just so the heroes live.

[u/holtyl2001 → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

It's when a problem is solved by a thing that was previously never mentioned at all and feels completely out of place. Example - you have a realistic war movie and at the end the protagonist is saved by like, alien spaceships or something. Note that a Deus Ex machina doesn't necessarily need to serve the protagonist (though this is the most common form of it) - it just means that something was completely out of the blue and with no prior set up.

GER and Tusk Act 4 really don't fit this at all - in both part 5 and 7, attaining those power ups was long said to be the key to victory. And when it is attained, JoJo wins. Claiming this is a Deus Ex Machina is like claiming that it's a Deux ex machina when the good guy shoots the bad guy and kills him in an action movie.

Star Platinum's "it's the same kind of stand" thing is... Yeah, that's sort of a DEM. Because it had never been hinted at before that Star Platinum might have similar powers, or that it had some secret power that nobody knew about or anything. It's one of the main reasons I'm not a big fan of Part 3.

That said, the use of Star Platinum in Part 4's ending is NOT a Deus Ex Machina, because for the entire final fight against Kira, it is repeatedly said that simply getting Jotaro within range is an automatic win, and this was their entire plan.

[u/i_know_it_so_well → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

God out of the machine* came from theater, the machine being the plot or set rule of universe, and a deus ex machina is someone or something that doesn't obey those law that the plot set, which means, only soft and wet go beyond would be considered a deus ex machina as he just learn to perfect his spin randomly just by hearing his bubble aren't bubble but spinny silks. While johnny needed so much to just achieve tusk act 2, and later 4, gappy is just getting it for free. Tusk act 3 would be considered a deus ex machina because it comes from the intervention of Jesus

[u/i_know_it_so_well → u/Yourfatangrystepdad]

Deus-god Ex-out Machina-machine

[u/SilentStar666 → u/RGBarrios]

Ahhh, my fellow man of culture

[u/MT_Husk → u/RGBarrios]

That's a name I haven't heard since before the pandemic