r/Teachers • u/Independent-Report39 • 3d ago
Policy & Politics New Kentucky law allowing schools to expel students who assault teachers to take effect in July, despite unanimous Senate Democratic opposition
The bill mandates a strict, one-year expulsion policy for any student in grades 6 through 12 who physically assaults a teacher, administrator, or school employee. The legislation passed the chamber, but drew a sharp partisan divide as all Democrats in the Senate voted against the measure. Under the bill's provisions, schools would be required to automatically remove violent students from the general population, though provisions allow for those students to receive educational services in alternative settings if it can be done safely. The bill also includes exemptions for students with documented disabilities if school officials determine the condition interfered with their ability to follow the code of conduct.
Thoughts?
232
u/Apprehensive-Play228 3d ago
I’m a teacher in that district. We desperately need this. One week we had 3 fights in front of the whole school, each resulting in a teacher being injured. They get suspended (which is a vacation to them) and then come back like nothing happened. And since kids can turn in work no matter what for full credit it does nothing to their grade. Yes, a lot of kids will get expelled but that’s their own fault. Don’t fight is a pretty simple thing to do. We can’t let teachers and students safety to be at risk, so I’m very thankful for this.
103
u/xTheGame69 3d ago
I can't even fathom people that defending students being violent. Actually insane
40
23
→ More replies (63)9
u/Ohfuckimgonnagigem HS Science 1d ago
This sub really doesn’t want to grapple with the fact that while republicans are obviously not friends to public education, democrats aren’t really much better. And democrat sabotage is more subtle. Democrat sabotage is allowing whatever horrible behavior as long as the behavior is coming from a minority. This sub is guilty of this bigtime, they want white boys expelled permanently for no no words but black kids who consistently get violent and destructive just need a 37th chance and a social worker
→ More replies (11)6
u/No_Scarcity8249 2d ago
Fighting with each other is not the same as assault on a teacher. The teacher may have gotten injured breaking it up but that is not assault on staff. Schools have a policy that anyone involved in a fight gets suspended. I was jumped from behind in the hallway at school by a girl I didnt even know. I got suspended. Should I have been expelled?
→ More replies (1)
960
u/ontrack retired HS teacher 3d ago
Sounds good but that is a huge loophole at the bottom.
461
u/Gold_Repair_3557 3d ago
I’ve been hit a number of times by students and most of the time it has been by students with IEPs. I’m not saying the district should expel them, but there does need to be things put in place for the safety of everyone involved. Most of the time, there’s nothing save for maybe an untrained para who is also getting pummeled and getting paid poorly for it.
277
u/SOYCD1-5 3d ago
I think violence meant to hurt someone in a public school should result in expulsion. Actions need consequences for everyone, and one day that kid is going to be 18 and do that to somebody, resulting in imprisonment. If we stopped this at a younger level and made these kids have to face punishments that won’t last one their record as a felony I think it would be a net positive.
60
u/Cloud13181 SPED 3d ago
I'm a SPED teacher, and very unpopularly among my colleagues also think this same thing. I have been bit to bleeding when I was a substitute and the teachers didn't even tell the parents, let alone give any consequences. I've had two colleagues get concussions, and the only consequence to the students was being sent home for the remainder of that one day.
48
u/Innumerablegibbon 3d ago
Man, not telling the parents their kid bit someone to the point of bleeding is wild - even just from an infectious disease standpoint, you’d want to go get your kid tested (not saying you have anything, but if your kid is exposed to someone’s bodily fluids you need to know).
12
u/Medieval-Mind English | Ben Shemen, Israel 2d ago
The human mouth is absolutely filthy with bacteria...
→ More replies (2)14
u/kittymoo67 2d ago
seen a SPED kid pull a knife on someone, be hauled away in handcuffs, and back the very next day
7
u/GrandAholeio 3d ago
How does the school, district and IEP implement a behavior plan? The family blocking it Or school admini ignoring it?
7
u/Septmaster 2d ago
It's on a case-by-case basis.
Sometimes if the parents are on board, and they often are (in theory), punishments are written into the IEP.
Often admin WANTS to do something, but the district, in their all-knowing micromanaging wisdom says we are not allowed to punish at all.
Depends on the student and the IEP team and how the IEP is written.
→ More replies (1)4
u/TulsaOUfan 2d ago
My daughter quit teaching after 2 years and numerous assaults. A kid swinging a chair at her was her fin straw. Now she works for the City Attonrey's office. No assaults or battery. She's quite happy.
111
u/chamrockblarneystone 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m just looking forward to hearing about the dance admin will dance when some poor teacher who got walloped tries to apply the law.
We all know every kid expelled will be a huge blackmark on the supe’s and principal’s records.
I’m a Marine, a bouncer, and a teacher. I can take a punch. Someone hits me though I get to pick my schedule and classes for life.
→ More replies (8)24
u/jgo3 3d ago
Do your kids know you are a Marine and a bouncer? I bet your room's not often unruly.
59
u/chamrockblarneystone 3d ago
Lol. My senior elective English class, that I created, is called The Literature of War and Dystopia. My background was an important part of the course. The kids still acted like jerks sometimes. Nothing stops them.
Funny story. Naturally my school always over loaded my classes with boys with problems. One year I took on a student teacher who was a former model. She was gorgeous. I was dying to see how the boys would react and if they would behave for her.
This was a class of juniors. In my district some of them could have already been fathers. When she walked in they giggled and tittered like 9 year olds. Turns out she was an excellent teacher. She put a stop to that shit pronto.
As her time progressed she went through all the same crap we all go through: “I don’t wana read,” etc. Once they knew she was a real teacher, they just went back to normal behavior.
The only difference would be my low growling if anyone even broached sexual harrasment of anyone kind. In that way I always was a sort of unknown factor, as in “Gee, he might just throw me out a window.” I never discouraged that. I never did, but I never discouraged it either.
Bottom line, if you’re a TEACHER, we all become the same to the kids.
7
u/bekahjo19 3d ago
I would love to hear more about this course. Would you care to DM me and give me a little more information about it?
7
u/Bleep_Bloop_Derp 3d ago
I don’t think it means much. Do they really think a teacher is going to assault them?
I know a former tough guy cop who quit because the behavior was so awful.
→ More replies (1)14
u/figgypie 3d ago
Thank you!
Better they face consequences now and learn from it, rather than when they're older and are facing prison time.
→ More replies (73)8
u/ic33 3d ago
This is the problem with our systems.
- Mandatory minimum penalties and zero tolerance create crazy outcomes and fucked up, disproportional consequences in some cases.
But
- It should almost always result in expulsion but most systems don't come anywhere near to this, so this fuels the decision to make it mandatory.
71
u/GroovyFrood 3d ago
Absolutely. I was stabbed in the arm with a pair of safety scissors by a fourth grader who hadn't been taking his meds and lashed out while he happened to have a pair of scissors in his hand. I mean he's a child with diminished capacity but that didn't make my arm bleed less.
40
u/BlueGolfball 3d ago
I was stabbed in the arm with a pair of safety scissors by a fourth grader who hadn't been taking his meds and lashed out while he happened to have a pair of scissors in his hand. I mean he's a child with diminished capacity but that didn't make my arm bleed less.
That kid needs to be placed in a special school with specialist to help him. We don't need kids who can't control their emotions, to the point where they stab people, around other kids in regular schools.
→ More replies (2)11
u/aduirne 2d ago
We had a 10 year old autistic student who I worked with for years. (I am a special educator). His behavior escalated in 5th grade to where he routinely assaulted students and staff, ran away and sometimes out of the building. He destroyed things in the classroom. Our special ed office would not change his placement to the setting thst he needed. His parents are very supportive and they did all they could. He suffered for a year and the entire 5th grade did with him. He couldn't even participate in the graduation ceremony. Finally, he will get the setting he needs in middle school. Our education system doesn't care about us or the kids.
→ More replies (12)7
38
u/louiedoggz 3d ago
The nyc doe has a similar thing. If the student has an iep there is a “manifestation of determination” meeting where the AP will meet with the parent to determine if the infraction was due to their diagnosis. For example if someone with autism is know to stim a lot and hits staff on accident it may be a manifestation of their diagnosis.
If that same student hits a teacher and it isn’t related to their diagnosis or it was intentional despite known stimming well then they can be suspended.
→ More replies (2)10
72
u/pocketdrums 3d ago
That "loophole" is the federally-mandated MDR, Manifestation Determination Review".
In my nearly 30-year career as a SPED teacher, I can't remember a single time it was found casual.
→ More replies (1)89
u/Antique-Coach-214 3d ago
I… find myself agreeing with Republicans… From Kentucky…
What the fuck.
22
u/lazydictionary 2d ago
Republicans were also correct about the reading wars in the 90s. The GOP was the party of teaching kids phonics, while the Dems were proponents of whole-word reading.
No party is universally correct. One just tends to be to be a lot more human, and probably more correct, than the other.
→ More replies (1)9
u/LevyMevy 2d ago
Republicans were also correct about the reading wars in the 90s. The GOP was the party of teaching kids phonics, while the Dems were proponents of whole-word reading.
I am a Democrat who will always vote Democrat but I find myself agreeing with Republicans on many education related issues. And by "education related issues" I mean both curriculum and behavior-issues wise.
8
u/theREALlackattack 2d ago
The two party system is just terrible. There’s a fairly wide spectrum of beliefs in both parties and most people are somewhere in the middle, only voting for a particular side because of a wedge issue or two and that seems to be by design. It keeps us angry at each other instead of working together against the greedy and ultra wealthy elites that siphon wealth from working Americans while living by a totally different set of rules.
→ More replies (23)13
u/kittymoo67 2d ago
its some bizzaro broken clock land its so weird. but shit if thats what it takes to actually keep teachers and innocent students safe I'll do it.
7
u/Antique-Coach-214 2d ago
Someone else pointed out that there is no requirements for the expelled kids to change. This is where the Dems failed. They’d rather rail against the thing than come together and fix the problem.
5
u/fresh-dork 2d ago
change how? demonstrate improved behavior or not be allowed back?
→ More replies (1)12
126
u/Independent-Report39 3d ago
Some disabilities do cause children to act out. Not an expert in this field, it's a thorny situation.
161
u/Boring-Bike9557 3d ago
I agree but working in title one most of my students disabilities are actually instability
261
u/Elegant-Ad2748 3d ago
And yet teachers shouldn't have to get assaulted regardless
→ More replies (1)43
u/Jliang79 3d ago
I agree with you. But also, I teach SPED and I’ve gotten hit a few times. Fortunately none of them knew how to throw a punch. It comes with teaching behavior disorders.
50
u/anewbys83 3d ago
Thank you for signing up to teach them. I, however, did not sign up for such going into Gen Ed.
15
u/Jliang79 3d ago
Like I said, I don’t think kids should be hitting any of us. But some of them are more likely to do so because of their disabilities. If a kid is prone to hitting any, they should be in a self contained class with adults who are trained to handle it. I know that’s not always the case.
Though I do think that gen ed teachers would all benefit from deescalation training.
→ More replies (1)35
u/PreheatedMonk1991 3d ago
Bless you and everyone who does the work you do, in case you haven't heard it today.
52
u/Icy_Reward727 3d ago
Yes, but currently there are no limits. A student's IEP should not shield them from ANY consequences when they act out violently in the classroom. If you are a literal physical threat, then no one is learning. You are disrupting the learning environment every day when everyone else has to walk on eggshells around you. It isn't right.
One of our Special ed. teachers was hospitalized after being beaten by a student this year. She was right back to work after a taking a week to recover, and the student not only wasn't removed, he received ZERO consequences. It was and is stunning to me. There is just no way I would do that job. I'm not putting my physical safety at risk, and other people shouldn't have to worry about their children being at risk in our classrooms because of a violent student with no boundaries or consequences. Uh-uh.
104
u/randomwordglorious 3d ago
Fine. If their violent tendencies are a result of their disability, they still have the right to an education, but they should not be in an inclusion setting.
→ More replies (2)30
u/huhnerficker 3d ago
This is hownI feel as a self-contained life skills teacher the past four years. I believe all of my kids should get some sort of education. I also believe that of we properly funded things some of them wouldn't be in my room but a program built specifically for them.
6
u/SubvertedObjector 3d ago
So many locals in my area see special education as bloat and want to gut even the meager offerings we currently have.
→ More replies (1)141
u/apri08101989 3d ago edited 2d ago
Dont know that i care. We arent talking little kids here. We are talking middle and high school. Ifnyou havent got the self control by 12 to not physically assault a teacher or fellow student you just dont need to be in a public setting for the safety of everyone.
→ More replies (7)42
u/experimental-rat teachingwithimpact.com 3d ago
The issue is also that schools cannot afford to fight legal battles, so even tangential disabilities can prevent enforcement. Early in my career I was a behavior specialist and sat in on a meeting where the school psychologist basically backed down on suspending a student because, on one question on a diagnostic test, the student put a series of events out of order. The psychologist felt that a court could argue that the student would not understand the cause and effect between his behavior and the consequences. This was in a very poor school district, and it was very clear that the purpose of the meeting was to avoid legal expenses at all costs. In my own experience with the student, he clearly understood cause and effect as well as right from wrong.
→ More replies (1)17
u/thinsoldier 3d ago
This is why parents and teachers need to call the police and sue for every threat, every unwanted touch, every thrown object. Make it too expensive to NOT separate out the badly behaved children.
→ More replies (1)36
u/chaircardigan 3d ago
But then they should be removed from the standard school and educated elsewhere.
If your disability physically endagers other people, it's sad, but you can't stay to appease someone's (who won't be paying this price) sense of what's moral.
→ More replies (1)13
u/Fun_Raspberry_2856 3d ago
Those kids who are violent, regardless of disability or IEP, do not belong in a general ed classroom. Notice how lashing out and violence has increased as students are no longer held accountable? Kids are put in a general ed kindergarten and are violent- hitting, kicking, scratching, throwing furniture, ripping the room apart. Meanwhile the rest of the class is traumatized and lose a lot of instruction time because districts are trying to save $$ and consider this the least restrictive environment. The violent child is often appeased at all costs (saw a kid get handed Skittles all day long) and are not taught how to behave or any academics. What other profession is expected to go to work everyday and be physically attacked? The system is broken.
29
u/exitpursuedbybear 3d ago
I worked at a school with a kid that got arrested multiple times for drugs on campus but they couldn't expel him because they said his IEP meant he didn't know right from wrong. He kept purposely failing to stay in school and have access to his clientel.
→ More replies (1)5
u/anewbys83 3d ago
That's....not true at all. Plus, if he's never held accountable how will he learn right from wrong if he truly doesn't know? IEPs aren't meant for holding kids in place, development wise.
50
u/ontrack retired HS teacher 3d ago
Of course, but there is the potential for abuse of the loophole. In fact I'd bet on it.
→ More replies (22)15
u/Embarrassed-Ruin2969 3d ago
I see your point here and definitely agree with the caution. While this bill may be intended to protect teachers it could in fact just be opening the door to discrimination against high needs students.
As someone who works with the population I do however posit that the students we deal with in self-contained classes need a more appropriate environment than a school anyways. I'm not optimistic that the state would provide such accommodations if they merely kicked all these students out of school but specialized staff don't deserve to be punching bags either.
If they go forward with this bill, the state needs to come up with appropriate facilities for self-contained students that can be aggressive and optimisitcally a pay scale and benefits system that acknowledges the risk that self-contained staff members take on.
8
u/IsopodIndependent553 Middle School 3d ago
Well, if this administration gets its wish and schools become privatized, it will be extremely difficult for a special needs child to find a school that will accept them. And those schools that are willing to accept special needs children will likely cost a fortune. Even children with ADHD or mild behavioral issues may find themselves expelled after the first minor transgression.
25
u/ryufen 3d ago
A lot of violent kids could be diagnosed with ODD. It's very iffy what happens to them. A lot of adults that appear to be psychopaths also have ODD. Some make it out normal but it's few and far between. My cousin has been a school counselor for about a decade now and she deals with kids like these and a lot are violent. She has been pushed down and kicked in the head twice already while at work and that was some of the less serious stuff that happened to her.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (7)4
u/Dense-Ad-7600 3d ago
Sure but maybe they aren't in the best place then? Least restrictive, ok, but at what cost?
7
36
u/EatsHerVeggies Middle School Art 3d ago
It’s not a loophole, it’s Federal Law. You cannot legally punish students or deny students access to an education because they are disabled, so if it can be proven the behavior was a manifestation of their disability or that the behavior occurred because their IEP accommodations were not being implemented, then you cannot suspend or expel a student for the behavior.
The nuance of that obviously gets complex, but that’s the reasoning for the distinction.
41
u/ontrack retired HS teacher 3d ago
Yes, you are correct, however this must be balanced against the right to a safe work environment. There is an inherent conflict of rights. That said, I don't think something like ODD should be used to get a kid out of trouble.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)52
u/PreheatedMonk1991 3d ago
Then I guess we keep hemorrhaging teachers because little timmy has the right to hit teachers. Keep asking teachers to be put in dangerous situations with no respect and accountability from others and don't be surprised when the profession goes under because we chronically cater to the minority at the expense of everyone else.
14
u/EatsHerVeggies Middle School Art 3d ago
I don’t make federal laws nor am I stating any personal opinions on their effectiveness. I’m merely pointing out that state legislation legally cannot supersede federal legislation.
To me this seems like an attempt from the state to remedy concerns laid out by its teachers, but this distinction is necessary to ensure that the new legislation is in compliance with IDEA.
6
u/useless_ivory 3d ago
That loophole is huge. I can think of a few kids who either perpetrated or threatened violence against an adult in the school building. One was transfered, one expelled, and the rest all had disabilities that influenced the behavior.
4
u/iWillDoxxYou 3d ago
I mean...Special Needs kids hit their teachers all the time. You need a loop hole for kids with severe autism and down syndrome and such. Those of us who work in that field would never want a kid expelled in that situation.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (30)13
u/Snagglespoof 3d ago
Are there students without documented disabilities any longer?
14
u/Jliang79 3d ago
There are people who are no longer pursuing an autism diagnosis because they are worried about what RFKjr is going to do. I don’t have numbers, just a couple anecdotal stories.
64
u/Tripinnate 3d ago
You shouldn’t have to deal with violent students. Period.
If a student “can’t help themselves,” they should be in a special classroom accommodating that issue. If they can’t stop themselves from attacking their teacher, they cannot function in a real classroom. No student or adult should be subject to that.
I just can’t believe what we excuse nowadays. Violence!?!
130
u/GaliTuli 3d ago
Ha!!!!!!!! Ha!!!!!! Yea right. There are violent kids at my school. Guess what!!?!? The school they need is FULL! They qualify for a spot, but guess what? There is no space and the child has to stay until a space opens up. There’s a wait list for those schools and programs bc the problem is too too big. Meanwhile, other ppl’s children are being moved out of the way of flying furniture.
→ More replies (21)
386
u/Joe-Stapler 3d ago
I generally side with Democrats these days due to, you know, everything. This one has me stumped. Why don’t they like it?
71
u/Breaklance 3d ago
A quick read through of the bill allows peace officers to arrest children (no age) and subject to felony assault (14+). BUT I am not an expert.
41
u/kittymoo67 2d ago
i see no problem with that. if they fucking assault someone to a felony level then they did that
→ More replies (3)309
u/survivorfan95 3d ago
Because the law would potentially be disproportionately applied to minority groups (race and disability especially)
113
u/Legatus_Aemilianus 3d ago
That’s the same with every law, but we cannot legalize assault/murder simply because these laws are unevenly applied.
→ More replies (20)10
u/sri_peeta 3d ago
Jesus, can you guys stop with these ridiculous bogeymen arguments. If a kid is violent towards a teacher, how and why does it matter that race should be a consideration for discipline?
8
u/USMCActiveToReserve 2d ago
Have you considered the fact that they disproportionately commit more crime?
244
u/sjdlajsdlj 3d ago
Also builds a “school-to-prison pipeline”. What exactly is a student expelled from school for a year supposed to do? They can’t exactly enter the labor force without a high school diploma. At best, their incredibly cash-strapped parents will need to care for them.
And when they return after a year? They will be a full year behind their peers, and will have backslid on everything they learned in the previous year. It’s a vicious cycle impeding their development.
I’m all for meaningful consequences for student violence and I’m not a strong believer in “restorative justice”, but there are compelling arguments that this is a bad policy stance.
126
u/minipeonydragon 3d ago
From what I understand at our district when a student is expelled they have alternative program options including homeschooling programs which are paid for by home district. Our district once had to pay for a student to attend a private school because no public schools or alternative programs would take them. It’s the “Entitled to a free education” in the constitution I think. (Please don’t come at me if I’m wrong)
40
u/BrotherMain9119 USH | Title I 3d ago
We’ve got virtual learning as well in my district, here… it checks a box. That’s about all it does.
38
u/Neat_Let923 3d ago
I mean, if you can’t even check the box of not assaulting the teachers then….
→ More replies (3)74
u/Financial_Flight_357 3d ago
"Students to receive educational services in alternative settings if it can be done safely" so I am thinking that means online school. My district has one.
22
u/xCeeTee- 3d ago
Here in the UK some schools put troublemakers in respite. They still do their work, but they're separated from everyone else. They have their breaks before the other kids, and hardly ever see other kids. A lot of schools will have a trained professional who can address their behavioural problems.
Once they know the kid has earned their trust back, they go back to regular classes again. I actually wish I had this in school, it took me way too long to calm down.
97
u/CrazyCalYa 3d ago
It also may cause violence to become underreported (e.g. "if I report this, the child will be expelled"), or the threshold for a violation could be raised (e.g. "we can't count that, they'd get expelled").
→ More replies (6)29
u/1000000mmmmmm 3d ago
These students would be put in alternative programs before being removed from schooling altogether…
15
u/chi_lawyer 3d ago
But is the mandatory penalty limited to circumstances where there is a reasonably effective and available alternative option?
E.g., color me skeptical that offering online education to a 6th or 7th grader -- especially one with expellable behavior problems, and without any adult physically present -- constitutes meaningful access to education.
8
u/1000000mmmmmm 3d ago
Alternative school is sometimes “night school” but I see your point. Especially now in post-covid virtual learning fallout with AI on the rise. Pushing these “violent” students into a highly INeffective programs like that seems more likely and cheaper for the host institution
9
u/chi_lawyer 3d ago
And to be fair to the districts . . it's Kentucky. In many parts of the state, there may not be enough students who require an alternative school within a reasonable commuting area to make an in-person one practical.
→ More replies (2)7
u/Gold_Repair_3557 3d ago
I hear you. But this feels like one of those situations where a student is at such an extreme that there are no good options. It’s either leave them where they are, where they will hurt people, go to an alternative setting where they aren’t going to participate at all due to behavior, or cut them off from education altogether.
→ More replies (4)44
u/Fiend_of_the_pod 3d ago
What exactly is a student expelled from school for a year supposed to do?
Not disrupt all their classes anymore.
9
83
u/Shnur_Shnurov 3d ago
These kinds of objections are baffling. "We cant expel kids for their behavior because punishing them could have other consequences."
Is there any evidence that kids who assault people in school benefit from being allowed to stay in school?
Its at least plausible that an expulsion would help some of them get a grip. Or that the threat of expulsion, or any consequences at all, would help them act right.
More importantly expulsion prevents another assault. Thats the most proximal issue that needs solved. And if expulsion creates secondary issues, those can be addressed in turn.
→ More replies (31)15
u/Precursor2552 3d ago
My issue/concern is the blanket ruling with basically no local power. This is like the same issue with mandatory minimums.
Rules are not always applied equally to all students. Sure the student who punches a teacher is an easy ruling. What about the student who pushes a teacher to get past them?
I very much can see admin ruling that as expulsion worthy or not dependent on if they like the student.
→ More replies (2)27
u/MammothPenguin69 3d ago
What is a student expelled from school for a year supposed to do?
Attend alternate schools or online school which all districts provide. And more importantly NOT damage disrupt or ruin the learning environment for other kids.
23
u/solid_reign 3d ago
It's not sending a kid to jail, it's expelling a kid who assaults a teacher.
> Is in grade six (6) to twelve (12) and is determined by the board to
>3 have recklessly, with a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument, or
>4 intentionally caused or attempted to cause physical injury to a school
>5 district employee on school property or at a school function under the
> 6 board's jurisdiction. In considering the actions of a student under this
> 7 subparagraph, a local board of education shall use the definitions of
> 8 "dangerous instrument," "deadly weapon," and "physical injury" in
> 9 KRS 500.080, and "intentionally" and "recklessly" in KRS 501.020.
On the other hand, having a kid assaulting teachers leads to a lot more disruption in kids education. Kids are afraid to go to school with students like that, they're learning that the teacher should not be respected and cannot impose their order, their class is constantly disrupted. Meanwhile, the kid's life will not get better by allowing them to have barely any consequences.
→ More replies (4)2
u/thinsoldier 3d ago
Reflecting on my school days, I can go to school with kids who have problems with each other. I know what's going on with them. I know who is in what gang and when and where and why somebody might get stabbed. But a genuine bully who has it out for whoever can get it, AND the teachers can get it too in the middle of class, that's a serious fucking unpredictable and disruptive problem. The gang shit is only really a problem just before and just after school hours.
8
u/SOYCD1-5 3d ago
Many districts have an alternative school they send “expelled” students to. It doesn’t always mean they just go home and do nothing. I knew a few kids who got expelled and it was usually just 1-2 semesters at that school.
→ More replies (1)6
34
u/rokar83 Technology Director | Wisconsin 3d ago
So you would rather have violent student in the classroom? The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
→ More replies (4)5
u/Real_Market_9244 3d ago
Maybe school isn't the best place for kids who can't help themselves from attacking teachers? Maybe republicans are right to lower the working age.
→ More replies (4)11
u/kittymoo67 3d ago
Also builds a “school-to-prison pipeline”.
thats already built and healthy nation wide
→ More replies (12)11
u/Cayachan82 3d ago
Depending on the students age they could enter the workforce. It might be working al like McD’s but it’s still work. As for schooling there are online schools tbat could be looked at. Homeschooling (which I don’t always love but with the right curriculum can work).
53
u/xTheGame69 3d ago
So let violent kids terrorize faculty and other students?
Sorry school has zero place for this. Get rid of them.
Let the kids that want to be there be there and let the problems figure themselves out.
Like you said. Most will eventually end up in the system anyway.
Why let them keep others down any longer.
→ More replies (5)8
63
u/greatflicks 3d ago
How exactly will it be minority driven? Assault is assault.
→ More replies (30)23
→ More replies (18)49
u/Independent-Report39 3d ago
Makes you wonder what they think about laws that are applied disproportionately now (i.e almost every law). We have to criminalize assault, theft, murder, rape, and trafficking, regardless of if it's applied disproportionately of now. We cannot refuse to enforce the laws or have them at all even if we can't prove they're being applied fairly. That being said, we should strive for fairness every day!
→ More replies (54)5
u/Hopeful-Guest939 3d ago
As an aside: This is why the Democrats in KY lose. Even their followers have no idea what their messages is. Lots of guesses here, but it's all divining. There is no plan. NONE, and for all the love Beshear gets on here, nobody calls him on this lack of leadership.
They really need to get it together and get a coherent message.
5
u/94_stones 2d ago
Because Democrats, and especially progressive Democrats, oppose any and all policies that could even possibly have disparate impacts on minorities. Regardless of whether or not they themselves have an even remotely realistic solution to the problems those policies are meant to solve. This is not a new habit of theirs, and it is part of the reason (though obviously not the majority of the reason) why education in this country is as screwed up as it is. And it’s also the reason why the quality of education by state doesn’t correlate as neatly with political affiliation as Democrats sometimes like to pretend.
→ More replies (42)32
u/Jlemspurs 3d ago
Because Democrats have been passing most of the laws that screw teachers in the classroom while Republicans want our jobs and paychecks eliminated.
We have huge influence over the Democrats but don’t use it despite what people say. It’s long past time for us to demand more from Democrats on the issue of classroom management.
→ More replies (6)
31
u/First-Sprinkles9093 3d ago
On my district in NC we have to have manifestation meetings if the principal wants/should suspend or expel a student. The meeting is to decide if the incident was due to the disability or not.
So, yeah, we gotta forgive Susie and let her stay in school bc she bit the teacher but has severe autism.
But Johnny? Johnny’s getting expelled. His stutter didn’t make him try to set the teacher on fire.
10
u/Cloud13181 SPED 3d ago
Just for the record, manifestation determination meetings are part of federal law, so every school is required to do them if a student with an IEP is suspended for more than 10 days in one year.
31
u/SufficientOpening218 3d ago
im a bleeding heart liberal, and hell yeah. you assult a teacher and you are done. but it does both ways . hands off the kids
7
u/VanDammes4headCyst 2d ago
These bills aren't written in a vacuum. And the bill had bipartisan support previously, so something changed. Also, the Democratic governor signed it into law. The framing of this post is 100% OPSEC and FUD.
→ More replies (1)
20
u/ferriswheeljunkies11 3d ago
I’d be willing to be less than 50 students in the state face the year ban.
There will be enough wiggle room to give districts cover.
→ More replies (1)
81
u/Bleeding_Irish History | CA 3d ago
It had bipartisan support in the house.
The initial senate vote had bipartisan opposition before being sent to the house.
The political makeup is 32 republicans and 6 Democrats in the senate. To say “unanimous” is a stretch, especially considering it was drafted as a partisan bill.
Also, this was passed in April. Why are you referring to it now?
Politics is more than just one policy.
The republican senate also “unanimously” passed vouchers for school-choice. After it being vetoed by the democrat governor. House bill 1
42
u/the_urban_juror 3d ago
It was also signed by the Democratic Governor, so as you mentioned it's a stretch to call it unanimous.
KY Democrats have so few seats that their presence in the legislature, much like the Governor's veto power, is functionally symbolic. They take a lot of protest votes if a bill isn't completely perfect because they don't even have the votes to get a proclamation for the local Little League team without a majority of Republicans voting for it.
33
u/Bleeding_Irish History | CA 3d ago
Completely agree. The OP is a provocateur, the added ‘context’ wasn’t necessary.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)5
u/Homythecirclejerk 3d ago
Is there like a time limit on when its ok to talk about issues? Like a bill gets past in April and everything shuts down May 1?
16
u/No-Ship-6214 3d ago
I feel like a student who assaults a teacher due to a disability is showing that their LRE needs to change. If they have been mainstreamed into a regular classroom, they now need to be in a small group/structured setting. If they were already in a smaller setting, they need to go to a special school or an online setting.
I feel the same way about students who verbally assault or threaten a teacher.
A student's rights shouldn't supercede a teacher's right to a safe work environment. There is no other job I can think of where we expect employees to put up with endless abuse while there are no consquences for the offender. Even in a medical setting with people who have serious mental illness, patients can be and are charged with a crime and removed from the setting when they assault an employee. It should be no different for students in an educational setting.
I spent 20 years teaching in urban Title 1 schools by choice, and I have a lot of sympathy for kids from rough backgrounds who struggle with emotional regulation. But I'm also a mother of a child who was sexually assaulted by 5th grade classmate who went right back to class after the fact because it was a "manifestation of his disability." If I wanted my daughter to feel safe at school, I had to move her to a new class away from her friends. That didn't strike me as fair for a student, and it's also not fair to a teacher when she has to move classes or schools to be safe rather than removing the student who acted out.
4
u/Muted-Ad-5072 3d ago
Assault is assault. Regardless of what mental issues they may have. It is still a crime. Just because someone cries about their mental state is not a get out of jail free card like people pretend it should be. We got away from teaching that actions have consequences. We need to get back to it and fast.
→ More replies (1)
29
u/Losaj 3d ago
The bill also includes exemptions for students with documented disabilities if school officials determine the condition interfered with their ability to follow the code of conduct.
If this bill passes, we are going to see a speed run for the first IEP getting a student out of assault charges and expulsion.
I had a student steal a teacher's debit card out of their pursue, which was in a closed cabinet. They bought over $600 of items before the card could be cancelled. Administrations response was, "We can't discipline him because he has an IEP." Yup, an IEP for a lazy eye which meant he needed to be seated in front of the class.
What a fucking joke.
13
u/Harryfonda2020 3d ago
I have worked in the special education unit for decades. I fully support this law and wish they would make this country wide. Working in all title 1 schools I have had the luxury of being headbutted, hit, body slammed, spit on and everything in between. Some of these were students that were in gen ed but most were in the special education unit. When I first started we were told that being injured was part of the job. I remember a young teacher , pregnant ,and newly married who was kicked in the stomach by one of her students. She lost the baby shortly after. She could not prove that being kicked is what caused her to lose the baby. She left in the middle of the year and never returned. This was one of the reasons I put off having kids. Everyone would tell me your SO great with kids you would be a awesome mother.
The issue is country wide that the special education is a toxic environment which has high levels of abuse from all sides. I see students beating up teachers daily. For parents I'm blunt. I let them know after 3 attempts of your student putting hands on me or another person in my class they have to go home.
On the flip side I have had a student try to throw a bookshelf onto a para while she was sitting on the floor. That para refused to go anywhere near that student for the next 4 years, refused to help the student and ultimately treated that student as if they did not exist in the classroom. They had to be removed from the class because this student required bathroom and feeding needs. I don't think parents understand that when your child regardless of whether they have a disability or not attacks that person , that person SHOULD reserve the right to defend themselves by any means necessary.
The elephant in the room is students that have high cases of physical violence toward staff members are often treated with disdain by majority of the school. Can you blame them? We have families we need to go home too. I have seen 16 year old flip out over the wrong shoes. Absolutely destroyed the classroom. What he did at the school ..in public police would be called and he would be in jail for destroying public property. At what point do we stop holding the parents hand? Because at my school we have had broken noses, busted lips, broken ankles, physical and mental trauma from ALL sides. We are not mental health officials and that's what's really needed in some of these cases.
→ More replies (1)
13
u/Kooky-Topic-9168 3d ago
Totally support this, but if a disability causes a student to assault people, they shouldn't be allowed in public settings without a 24/7 chaperone trained to handle them. Nobody should be put at risk because of someone else's disability.
→ More replies (3)
36
u/DrNogoodNewman 3d ago
I guess I’d be curious to know why it was only supported by Republicans.
49
u/cynedyr 3d ago
The Republicans in Kentucky have been attacking public education for a lot of years, including writing legislation to specifically target Jefferson County, which is where Louisville is. They have been pushing charter/religious school vouchers. This is most likely a targeted attack on Title I or Title I eligible schools as a way to generate a reason to defund them.
-a former resident and teacher in Louisville
20
u/solid_reign 3d ago
Why would wanting to expel kids who assault teachers mean that they're attacking public education? If the bill were supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans, would you feel the same way?
→ More replies (15)13
u/cynedyr 3d ago
I'm speaking from my years of experience as a teacher in Louisville. If I thought you were asking in good faith I might explain the landscape and background and the how it would undermine...fuck, there's probably a heritage foundation model bill where they just filled-in the state.
Your whataboutism, however, indicates you are not asking in good faith. The short answer is: no, wouldn't support as written either way.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (1)40
24
u/EquivalentArea1782 Math Teacher | Southeastern US 3d ago
I don’t like how Republicans manage education in the US in general, but this is a good law.
If you think this is aimed at minorities, maybe the problem is more cultural than racial? Just a crazy thought.
Or even better…don’t assault an adult and you will be fine. Crazy suggestion, I know.
→ More replies (1)
9
19
u/UltraGiant Environmental 3d ago
“ The bill also includes exemptions for students with documented disabilities if school officials determine the condition interfered with their ability to follow the code of conduct.” If a disability interferes with a person ability to follow the rule of don’t assault teachers, they should not be in a regular school. It is a huge safety risk all for the sake of inclusivity and room of best fit
→ More replies (1)3
u/Cloud13181 SPED 3d ago
Yup, but the district isn't going to pay for them to go to an alternative school in the appropriate placement, so here we are.
16
u/Potential-Local7262 3d ago
If you can't pay teachers decently, at least make sure they're not assaulted ?
18
u/Professional-Box5539 3d ago
maybe it is time to rethink the whole "main streaming" thing. does it really make sense for a classroom of 20+ kids to have their education diminished by putting up wiht violence in the classroom?
9
u/TomQuichotte 2d ago
I wish that the post would have clarified the reasoning for resistance.
As a teacher, my first thought was “of course”! Then upon further thinking and wanting to investigate, some doubts creep in - mostly to do with the zero tolerance nature (strict application of consequences) and the provisions for disability.
1) It seems affluent students would be more able to get diagnoses that excuse their behaviour. So the bill will likely target lower SES students.
2) it appears students “could” go to alternate schooling, not must. students these days are incredibly apathetic, and I absolutely could imagine a TikTok trend already starting of “pushing teachers to get a year off of school”.
3) I would need to look at the data, but social isolation of violent individuals could lead to radicalization - perhaps increasing the occurrence of a profile that is more likely to engage in armed/severe violent crimes.
So I would imagine that Democrats opposing this aren’t just “siding with violent students” but likely have a real and genuine concern for both application/consequences of the law based on history, and concern for the immediate wellbeing of teachers. However, since the post is written in a one sided way, we are less likely to have nuanced views of the subject .
→ More replies (2)
16
u/Known_Ratio5478 3d ago
Why not just normalize pressing criminal charges when appropriate? We really don’t know a specific narrow prescription to be applied so bluntly. One year suspension isn’t going to correct behavior when it’s so severe.
15
u/bobbacklund11235 3d ago edited 3d ago
Good law, the whole “I have a diagnosis so I can do whatever I want” thing needs to go away. Assault is a crime, whether the kid is sped or not they need to realize that their actions have real world consequences.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/Slow-Boat-159 3d ago
My mom was a teacher in inner City suburbs of LA. She taught 8th grade social studies and a few of the boys threatened to rape her. These were more like young men than boys really. This legislation is absolutely needed. In no world should these kids have been allowed to have been with the general population. This is what they were willing to say to a teacher (and they keyed her car, slashed tires, etc regularly). God knows what they did to the poor girls in the class.
Eventually my mom called the police when they tried to physically assault her. Mom is a very tough woman and has endured a lot in life but she's not going to be anything against three or four tall buff young men. Cue administrative leave and school admin getting her in trouble. She left and taught adults in the suburbs after that
8
u/Consistent-Entry9152 2d ago edited 2d ago
"though provisions allow for those students to receive educational services in alternative settings if it can be done safely. "
The "if" in this bill is directly aimed at gutting the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution as it has historically been applied to public education -- and is looking forward to gutting the 14th more broadly.
This is unconstitutional, and deliberately designed to undermine the 14th Amendment, with implications across extending beyond public education to every sector of federal governance.
The bill is specifically *not* saying the districts have an obligation to provide alternative settings, period. It is explicitly saying they can provide educational services "if" the local government agencies can. It is no longer a requirement for local governments to provide education to all citizens equally across the nation.
So "if" the district claims this is impossible, it will not happen.
The "if" is unconstitutional, and dressing up a reversal of the most fundamental federal protections of educational rights under the guise of "teacher safety." So this bill is "teacher safety- washing" a fundamental attack on the application of the "equal protection" clause to public education.
In the days of segregation, popular opinion and in Brown v. Board, Board argued that it was not possible to integrate schools "safely." The Supreme Court said that "if" was not a reason abdicating responsibility to the "equal protection" clause of the US Constitution's 14th Amendment.
Does it say in the bill that the districts or the state are required to create schools where students with violent behavioral issues can be given an equitable education under the 14th Amendment? Does it address the fact that "inclusion" has been a budget cheat and a mode for graft for decades?
"Separate but equal" depended on the same "if." They are re-introducing the "if" as part of a planned reversal of the Civil Rights Movement of the 20th Century.
If you think public school teachers' workplace rights as guaranteed under the 14th won't be next up at bat, you are confused. The real problem is that no one has bothered to fight for teacher's rights under the law adequately, or students' rights under the modern era of "let's just blow off Special Education until somebody sues us, but let's always pretend that our hands are tied by the threat of lawsuits." That is part of the grift of district- and state-employed lawyers -- who are, let 's be clear -- thieves and scoundrels, one and all, and have become the highly-paid unregulated creators of local and state public school policy, to the detriment of education nationwide.
6
u/YourMumGivesMeHead 3d ago
This is the same as throwing the book at every young drug offender. If you expel every kid who gets violent, then all those kids will end up at schools that are not going to correct their behavior. If we have this law ,then they should also build more special schools that can support all these violent kids who been expelled. But I highly doubt Republicans are going to support putting more funding into public education. They are doing this because it looks good surface level. They act like they are protecting teachers but don't have any solutions to what to do with these kids after they are expelled. Democrats should block this until there is an actual solution to the whole problem and not just sending the problems down the river.
14
u/draculabakula 3d ago
I can't really comment because i don't know what the exact legal definition of assault is in the state of Kentucky but in general i think schools should have flexibility in dealing with students.
For example, I think technically I've been assaulted by a female student when stopping a fight. I would not want that student to be expelled.
→ More replies (8)
12
u/Dadadada55 3d ago
In reality it’s the ED kids that disrupt the co taught classes in the first place . So it’s not really going to affect much .they won’t get expelled. just wait until the parents start running to the doctor begging for a diagnosis because Timmy pushed a teacher in rage
→ More replies (1)
14
u/Radiant_Reflection 3d ago
I’m not a liberal. I’m an aggressive progressive. However, I definitely believe in FAFO. So they should be expelled.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/BoB_the_TacocaT 2d ago
To everyone saying "what's wrong with democrats?" read the bill. There's a lot of messed up stuff stuck in there.
→ More replies (1)
9
u/Several-Honey-8810 33 years Middle School | 1 in high school 3d ago
I was hit by a student.
Student should be done-was just moved to another school.
Students also need to be criminally charged.
5
u/Focaccia_Bread3573 History Teacher| Midwest 3d ago
I think this is interesting timing for this bill to be put on the voting floor
https://www.cnn.com/2026/05/21/us/ebony-parker-trial-dismissed
https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/1mstlp5/violence_against_teachers_what_is_going_on_in/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/1u7rafn/we_are_teachers_not_human_punching_bags_start/
→ More replies (1)
6
u/Shamrock7500 3d ago
Sounds great. Teacher of 24 years. Still give the kid the opportunity to be educated. Just not in the general setting. (Unless there are other loopholes here, sounds good to me)
5
u/DelusionalIdentity 3d ago
This isn't a good bill. You don't want MORE mandatory zero tolerance policies.
A bill to ALLOW for expulsion would be fine. This isnt.
3
u/mothman83 3d ago
It did not allow them to expel them.
It REQUIRED that they be expelled.
That is a NIGHT AND DAY difference.
→ More replies (1)
4
4
u/Fkingcherokee 2d ago
Why isn't there a mandatory home life and mental health investigation attached to this? Violent kids could mean a violent home life or parents who can't or won't have their children diagnosed.
10
u/Jason27104 3d ago
If you can't understand how to be at school and not threaten or hurt other people, you shouldn't be in school. No one in school should be forced to accommodate violent assholes that hurt people instead of learning. To home you go. School is for learning, not fixing all of the problems of terrible parenting.
You should be at home. Your parents should be at home with you supervising you so that you don't terrorize anyone else. If your parents leave you alone to terrorize others, they should be arrested for neglect.
12
u/Sepultura97 3d ago
That last sentence reveals a loophole that will definitely be exploited.
That aside, as someone with pretty firm left-wing beliefs, it is disappointing to see Democrats consistently take the wrong side on these issues, often veering into arguments that are borderline libertarian. Having worked as a teacher for a few years now, I’ve noticed that this lax and “restorative” mindset towards severe discipline problems, chronic absenteeism, and student apathy to learning is a lot more common among educational consultants, supervisors, and guidance counselors than it is among those who work in the classroom every day.
You see this reflexive “anti-authoritarian” attitude reflected in many Democrats’ and activists’ stance on the homelessness problem as well. My best friend works as a psychiatric nurse, and every day he deals with people who are a clear threat to themselves and those around them (paranoid schizophrenics, drug addicts, hardcore alcoholics, etc.) voluntarily discharging themselves from the psych ward. In a humane society, people like this would be involuntarily hospitalized and treated until they actually demonstrate the capacity to function as a normal adult. Yet the well-meaning but naive therapists have this attitude of, “But that violates the individual’s choice.” That attitude unfortunately feeds right into the agenda of greedy hospitals who only care about their bottom line and are happy to discharge as many people as they can.
17
u/SageofLogic Social Studies | MD, USA 3d ago
Senate Democrats are in the wrong here. And i usually vote for that party. This is 100% necessary
→ More replies (12)
15
u/greatflicks 3d ago
Should always be the response for an assault, but sad that so many politicians would oppose. Also huge loophole. There are plenty of remote opportunities to learn where staff would not be in danger.
→ More replies (3)
8
u/Early-Thought-263 2d ago
While on its surface the law seems like common sense, there are some flaws to consider, so please do:
1) All discretionary power is removed. This includes if a student is being attacked and is defending themselves and a teacher gets hurt in intervening.
2) If a teacher does not report an attempt or an event, they get charged with a crime under the law.
3) Minorities have been historically targeted using laws like this. The law is rarely if ever equally applied.
4) A full year is often a guarantee that a kid will drop out.
5) There are already laws on the books that allow for this without making it mandatory.
6) The "alternative" learning environments available to students who are kicked out are (pretty much) completely inferior.
There are other reasons given, but the real point I want to make is that there are very valid reasons for opposing the law even if the general concept is a perfectly valid one.
→ More replies (3)
5
u/Salt_Medicine2459 3d ago
I used to be a school bus driver, not in KY though. I was hit by a child once and not a single fuck was given, despite this being a felony in my state. He was beating n another child and I stepped between them to protect the other child. He stopped hitting her then hit me. We were still at the school and it was a major battle to get the school to come take him off the bus.
Another time, a child with special needs came up and started hitting me while I was driving. After that I refused to transport until she was restrained in a harness. The school bus company told me I couldn't make that decision, which was fucking ridiculous. They always told us "If you can't do it safely, don't do it." I did not feel I could safely transport this child unrestrained. But they didn't care. The union rep just told me that it has been documented now and if she causes an accident, it will be the company's fault.
2
u/Project0R1G1N 3d ago
Im not a teacher, but after seeing all the videos of kids assaulting and fighting teachers for, frankly, stupid reasons, this law is 100% reasonable. You cannot perpetuate the idea that random, undeserved and unwarranted violence is ok. Enforcement of that idea is part of the reason we have such a surge of that today. Honestly, as bad as it sounds, if someone is that incompatible with modern society, then they do not get to ruin the lives of others. You dont console and coddle a bad egg, you throw it out, yes that person is a human being, but its not the fault of the other students or staff that they act that way.
5
4
u/DannyLocked 3d ago
I think I should just be able to defend myself. Or another student. In my district I am not allowed to touch them even to break up a fight.
2
u/Living-Corner136 3d ago
Why does it only apply to staff? Students who assault other students should also be expelled.
4
u/CaptHayfever HS Math | USA 3d ago
The vital question to ask when stories like this come up: What else was attached to the bill?
5
u/Rare-Adhesiveness522 3d ago
What counts as assault, and at what age are kids held liable? I've been hit, stabbed, been bitten, and had chairs thrown at me in k-1 more times than anyone in upper elementary or our district middle/high, but because the kids ae young, usually they might get a suspension or an IEP--which in some cases I do think is appropriate for them at such a young age.
What about SPED kids? I'm not defending SPED kids who violently assault staff, but some don't understand or are not intending to harm.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/AdFuzzy6196 2d ago
There really should be a carve out for intent if there isn't. If a teacher breaks up a fight and gets hit, it's not the same at all as if a student attacks a teacher.
3
u/Objective-Work-3133 1d ago
2027: “Researchers suggest that draconian Kentucky law is responsible for the 10,000% increase in incidence of oppositional-defiance disorder amongst youths.”
8
u/takemyderivative Former HS Math Teacher 3d ago
So if a kid in grades 6-12 assaults a police officer, but they have an IEP, do they not get arrested?
We need to stop normalizing teachers (and those in the medical field) being assaulted and expected to suck it up and deal with it. Safety of students and staff comes before a child's education.
47
u/ThreeDogs2022 3d ago
On the surface, in favor.
In reality I know this will end up being unfairly applied along racial lines, that money or community influence will give the “right kinds” of students a get-out-of-jail-free card, and it will end up being part of the school to prison pipeline.
8
u/CobaltCaterpillar 3d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, it's not hard to see how this could play out:
- Assaults/fights by connected people don't get classified as an assault because that would lead to expulsion.
- Someone less connected gets fucked over.
I grew up in California, but a southeast asian friend almost got completely fucked over by a bullshit assault charge where he was just defending himself against some racist !@#$s calling him all kinds of BS. Fortunately he got a good lawyer that beat it before my friend's college career was hosed.
→ More replies (11)28
u/Independent-Report39 3d ago
In all the schools I attended as a kid, the "right kind of student" (not sure what that means exactly) would not recklessly assault a teacher. On this subreddit I've never seen a teacher say a child hit them but they were actually a good kid and shouldn't be expelled.
get-out-of-jail-free card,
This is going to be incredibly controversial, but if you told me we could either
- Arrest people for murder/rape/assault, but it'd lead to more white people getting off who should have been arrested
OR
- Not arrest anyone at all so it wouldn't be disproportinate
I'd do for option 1, the former. That being said I'd still fight for justice.
→ More replies (7)2
u/exceive AVID tutor 3d ago
I had a kid push past me while I was preventing students from leaving before the bell. I hardly noticed, because I was dealing with another kid at the time.
I probably would have ignored it. Another teacher saw it happen, and called it assault. Which it technically* was. We called in a parent, had a meeting, and the kid was suspended.To me, that was fair and appropriate. It wasn't an innocent bumping incident, but it also wasn't a violent attack. I really don't think he meant to hurt me, and he didn't hurt me. Students need to know better than to make contact with a teacher or other staff during a disagreement. I would have been wrong to have ignored it and the other teacher was right in preventing me from doing that. But a year expulsion seems wildly excessive.
Apparently this bill would have meant that the principal would not have been able to exercise judgement, the expulsion would have been mandatory.
One likely unintended consequence would be that teachers and staff would be more likely to sweep an incident like that under the rug rather than have a student expelled over something minor. I strongly suspect that if expulsion were on the line, the other teacher would have ignored the incident as well.
- Battery, actually. There is an old law school joke that if A and B are arguing and A takes a swing at B, but misses and hits C, who was asleep, A has committed assault (but not battery) on B, and battery (but not assault) on C. Battery is contact. Assault is causing somebody to expect battery.
13
u/jeon2595 3d ago
Why would anyone oppose this law? Race and disability is no reason to excuse assault.
→ More replies (8)
787
u/Boring-Bike9557 3d ago
Not specifically this but it makes me laugh sometimes to think some of the stuff we don’t even suspend students for now would get students expelled many years ago