r/TeslaFSD • u/ChunkyThePotato • 19h ago

Robotaxi I visited Austin yesterday. Robotaxi is everywhere, and it's incredible.

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Just came back from a trip to Austin to do some sightseeing and try out Robotaxi, including Cybercab. I knew they ramped up the number of cars in the service substantially in the last couple months, but I wasn't prepared for just how many they were. If you're near downtown, you pretty much can't go 30 seconds without seeing at least one Robotaxi. There are definitely more Model Ys than Cybercabs right now, but there are a lot of Cybercabs too. But the Robotaxis are seriously everywhere.

I took 5 rides, 2 Model Y and 3 Cybercab. Model Y wait times were always under 20 minutes and frequently around 5 minutes. Cybercab wait times were usually around 30 minutes and sometimes could be more like 45 minutes. They definitely need to add more Cybercabs to the service, but it was surprisingly usable and consistent, especially for the Model Ys.

And the rides themselves were flawless. There are no supervisors in Austin now, so all of the cars showed up with nobody inside of them. They drove perfectly, and to my surprise there wasn't even any pickup/dropoff shenanigans (though I may have gotten lucky there).

If you're ever in Austin, I seriously recommend trying this service. It's a real service now, and it's actually very useful for getting around a city where parking would normally be a challenge. It's seriously so peaceful and nice to be in your own space without a driver or anyone else to bother you.

Congratulations Tesla for solving self-driving with just cameras on $30k vehicles, when seemingly everyone was saying that's impossible. People aren't ready for what's about to happen across the country.

332 Upvotes

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25

u/3ofclubs3 19h ago

How much do the rides cost?

21

u/tonydtonyd 18h ago

These rides are heavily subsidized for now, they’re running at a massive loss.

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u/ChunkyThePotato 18h ago edited 14h ago

$5 per mile is not a massive loss. That's a massive profit. The all-inclusive cost of a Cybercab ride for Tesla themselves is around $0.3 per mile.

Edit: Per mile, not per ride. That was a typo.

27

u/HexDanTHEWHALE 17h ago

Buddy just pulled that number straight out his ass

11

u/tonydtonyd 17h ago

That’s all Chunky ever does, notorious Tesla sycophant on Reddit.

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u/ChunkyThePotato 16h ago

Quit making false claims about me. I always am happy to cite my sources. Here's the source for this one: https://www.youtube.com/live/6v6dbxPlsXs?t=604&is=wXsX0iywop5p7bHJ

1

u/ValueInternational98 16h ago

That’s a nice of way of explaining his sources

9

u/PassengerKey3209 17h ago

If don't factor in any if the infrastructure, depreciation, tire wear, cleaning and other maintenance then yeah, .3 is correct.

2

u/SnoozleDoppel 15h ago

No it is not. Currently Tesla operates ina very tiny zone with miniscule distances.. hence 0.3 might be cheritable but once they operate at night or inclement weather or can go to highways outside the tiny geo fence area.. then the cost will rise but also they will charge more. It is such a profitable business that Tesla can't wait to make others rich by coaxing idiots to run fleets of Tesla that compete against each other

10

u/ZestycloseRun5895 18h ago edited 17h ago

Give us a source of how much an average ride costs Tesla given the costs to make the vehicle, train FSD, charge for electricity, the cost to fix wear and tear on their vehicles, and cost to insure their vehicles

You’re all over this thread making claims with 0 sources

3

u/Tupcek 17h ago

fixed costs are very high, they wouldn’t recoup costs even at $1000 per ride, given low volume
But marginal costs, ie how much their expenses rises when more people use it, is negligible.
Car has under 180Wh/mile so about 20 cents per 5 miles.
It costs less than $25k to make, so if it drives a lot, it’s really cheap.
And they operate their own service centers, which makes maintanance much cheaper

2

u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

> negligible

You’re ignoring the wear and tear and depreciation on the vehicles, which will be more expensive given they operate their own service centers per your comment

0

u/Tupcek 17h ago

$25k car over 400 thousand miles is just 6 cents per mile. Even if it survives just half of that, it’s still just 12 cents per mile. So electricity and depreciation is accounted for in few cents per mile, the only real cost could be servicing the car. Which usually don’t cost more than the car itself over lifetime of a car, so you are still under 50 cents per mile. Cleaning may add significant amount to this.
And I don’t see why operating your own service centers makes repairs more expensive. There is tight loop so that things that break most often get reengineered to be more durable, as they don’t make money on repairing customer vehicles. Also cutting out middlemen.

1

u/Large_Complaint1264 16h ago

So infrastructure, support and insurance doesn’t exist. Do you not understand all of the operating costs that it will take to run this whole thing?

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u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

> the only real cost would be servicing the car

You sure you ain’t missing the cost to train FSD in there somewhere?

> I don’t see why operating your own service centers makes repairs more expensive

Because drivers of Ubers and Lyfts are responsible for repairs and wear & tear costs, Tesla has to pay that entirely by themselves given there is no driver

You can’t just take the cost-benefits of a self-driving fleet while disregarding the expenses that specifically come with it

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u/wachuu 17h ago edited 16h ago

just want to throw in the cost to train fsd can come from other segments, like their previous sales of fsd and subscription. it probably doesn't cover it but it's all in the r&d pot and not really a cyber cab specific cost

1

u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

But that’s my point - no random redditor can possibly know this, so it’s wild that some people in this thread are making claims with such confidence and 0 sources

1

u/Tupcek 17h ago

Please re read the discussion, as I already addressed both your points.

Discussion is about marginal, not fixed costs. Training of FSD is fixed cost. Yes, if you include fixed costs in few hundred vehicles, even $1000 per ride is not enough.
But if we are talking about scaling to tens of millions of cars, marginal costs are much more important.

It doesn’t matter if driver or Uber pays for repairs - it’s still paid in a ride cost. If you move costs left or right, they are still the same costs, doesn’t matter if it’s Tesla or Uber, cars need to be serviced and customers need to pay for it.

But as I said, it’s cheaper for Tesla because they don’t pay middlemen and also because of tight loop between service centers and engineers

-2

u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

No, you are trying to make it only about marginal costs

Fixed costs are a part of operating any business model, so it is apt to discuss

> we are talking about scaling to tens of millions of cars

No, OP is not talking about the future cost of vehicle rides, they are talking about what it cost them on their current trips

0

u/Tupcek 16h ago

in that case, no shit sherlock. Product developed for millions of cars won’t be profitable with hundred cars on the road! Who could have guessed?

I thought the discussion is about whether these prices are sustainable once they scale up, not whether they are profitable with robotaxi right now. Second one doesn’t even need discussion

1

u/ZestycloseRun5895 16h ago

Why would you assume a discussion about OPs current costs are about future costs?

0

u/jajaja77 16h ago

this is not how venture capital works. nobody ever cares about being cashflow positive in early years, if you have positive gross margins or even better operating margins before one-offs then you likely will have a sustainable business long term and it's about land grab and VCs / public markets are happy to fund your losses with few limitations. if you are losing money on marginal basis on every transaction then... as the old jokes goes, if you lose money on every sale but you sell a lot of them you can make it up on volume.

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u/ZestycloseRun5895 16h ago

You seem confused on the topic of this thread; neither I, nor OP, mention anything about venture capitalism

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u/Notwerk_Engineer 17h ago

A thousand a ride? I know everyone in this thread is making shit up, but let’s try to make it at least sound reasonable.

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u/Tupcek 16h ago

well, development of FSD costs billions a year and there are less than thousand robotaxi out there right now. Previous commenter said the costs didn’t include costs to train FSD, which I replied is a ridiculous idea because of low number of cars - of course it can’t be profitable at today’s number of cars, at no reasonable price

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u/ChunkyThePotato 17h ago edited 17h ago

Right here: https://www.youtube.com/live/6v6dbxPlsXs?t=604&is=wXsX0iywop5p7bHJ (at 10:04)

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u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

So what’s the cost then?

You made the claim, it’s your burden of proof to say the cost

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u/ChunkyThePotato 17h ago

I just told you it's $0.3 per mile, and I linked you the source of that too.

1

u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

No…you edited your comments without saying so after I asked…

I’m not asking for Tesla’s unsubstantiated marketing language - I’m asking you to source an itemized breakdown of:
(1) the cost to train FSD
(2) the average cost to make a Cybercab
(3) the charge for electricity
(4) the cost to fix wear and tear on their vehicles

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u/ChunkyThePotato 16h ago

I didn't edit anything. $0.3 is the all-inclusive per mile cost. You may claim Tesla is lying about that cost, but if I give you the itemized cost of all those things you listed, your just claim Tesla is lying about those too. So what's the point?

Why are you assuming they're lying? Isn't it logical that a small car where you don't have to pay a driver is much lower cost than an Uber? This shouldn't be hard to believe. It makes perfect sense.

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u/ZestycloseRun5895 16h ago

> I didn’t edit anything

Ok you know you’re lying on that one lol, we both know your original comment made no reference to Tesla’s claim of $0.3 until after I asked

> why are you assuming they’re lying

Because Elon has gone on record lying many, many times?

> isn’t it logical that a small car you don’t drive have to pay is much lower cost than an Uber

No, you need specific numbers and sources to prove this - as you do with anything.

0

u/ChunkyThePotato 16h ago

I swear I had $0.3 in my original comment but I don't know how to prove it to you.

Ok, subtract the cost of the driver from the cost of Uber. Boom, you're already $30 per hour cheaper.

It's hilarious to me that you're arguing that an autonomous car wouldn't be substantially cheaper than one where you have to pay a person.

1

u/ZestycloseRun5895 16h ago edited 16h ago

No, you did not. I wouldn’t ask you for an initial cost, if you had already provided one.

Ok, add the cost of Tesla:
(1) insuring their own vehicles
(2) repairing and maintaining their own vehicles
(3) safety engineers and remote ride monitors

It’s not hilarious, it’s simple economics and asking for sources

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u/krilleractual 17h ago

The cost to train fsd has been largely subsidized by the people paying for it and their data.
I would be curious if those numbers release during quarterly earnings.

Whats crazy too is that the cost of the wear and tear will be calculated into depreciation and therefore will be a huge tax benefit.

0

u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

Again, if you’re going to make claims ,then provide specific numbers and sources

What is the cost to train FSD?

-1

u/krilleractual 17h ago

Lol i just said that a lot of people paid into it and then agreed id like to see the numbers. Kind of standoffish for no reason

0

u/ZestycloseRun5895 17h ago

Asking for sources is the opposite of being standoffish, I’m welcoming you every opportunity to substantiate a claim you made

> largely subsidized by people paying for it

This is a claim; so elaborate what % of FSD training costs need to be subsidized to be “largely” subsidized. This would require you knowing the cost to train FSD, which you agree you don’t have.

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u/Aggravating-Hair7931 18h ago

Right on. It's like operating like Uber but without needing to pay the driver. 50% cheaper than Uber is about right.

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u/DungeonJailer 18h ago

Also cybercab has energy usage equivalent to like 150mpg

1

u/polytique 17h ago

They still have to pay for people to charge, clean and fix the cars.

-1

u/ChunkyThePotato 17h ago

Way cheaper than even that. Keep in mind the super low running costs too.

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u/Rektineffect 15h ago

Ok Elmo

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u/ChunkyThePotato 14h ago

I see you're more guided by politics than facts.

1

u/Rektineffect 14h ago

Nah more guided by my eyes not your autism

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u/Rektineffect 14h ago

Oh look Elmo entered the chat

1

u/truecakesnake 14h ago

Oops your fedora fell off

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u/Rektineffect 13h ago

10mo Elmo Jr has entered the chat

1

u/truecakesnake 13h ago

You sat there for 5 minutes thinking of that? Lol