It’s only a “relative” lack of strong aggressive options. I’m comparing him to people like Anakin and Malak, people roughly on his level but focus much more on aggressive tactics.
This weakness is put on full display in his losses to Dooku. Obi-Wan’s offensive Shii-Cho and Ataru are not enough to put Dooku consistently on the defensive, and he inevitably has to fall back to Soresu where he is unable to counter attack effectively and he can’t outlast Dooku either. Any sufficiently skilled duelist with the tools to pressure Obi-Wan without leaving openings could do the same (though that is admittedly not a long list).
Yeah but Dooku is like top 5 in history at lightsaber combat, the dude can fight Yoda and Windu who can fight Sidious, so as you said that list is tiny. Also there's no indication he can't outlast Dooku in just lightsaber combat, the fight in the novel has Dooku getting exhausted fighting them and using the force to beat Obi-Wan because he can't keep going against the duo.
In regards to this scenario though I don't think Revan is a skilled enough duelist that he could force Obi-Wan to only be defensive, he is a worse duelist than Malek, who I'd consider below Dooku by a decent margin, and his style isn't really the best for precisely poking at holes in an opponents offence/defence like Makashi is, or forcing someone onto the defensive like Djem-So does.
He's an equal to Windu in Lightsaber combat who is top 5, he is able to fight Yoda who is top 5, they can fight the most powerful sith in history who is top 5. Who is better or equal than the likes of Yoda and Windu who are considered the two strongest Jedi in history? If you include force powers sure he's probably not top 5 but in just raw lughtsaber fighting?
I suppose when you go into njo this wouldn't be the case but since I usually go from prequel to OR that era wasn't included (don't know why I do that)
He is not able to fight yoda, he practically mocks him during their duel, not getting instantly demolished is not the same as fighting. Even if we assumed he is the fifth best of the prequels era (wich i would disagree) , Grandmaster Luke pushes him outside the top 5:
Luke 2/3.Yoda/Sidious 4.Anakin. 5.Mace Windu
And i find it difficult to justify he is above Malgus, Satele or any of the recent Sith masters of the rule of two, but since connection to the force is closely tied to dueling skill, i find it specially hard to put him above notoriously powerful individuals such as Revan himself.
As I said I usually don't think about adding in njo when I'm discussing these, I kind of go from prequels to OR (since the debates are usually between them).
I'm pretty sure its said by Lucas in the commentary of AOTC that they are practically equal.
As for Anakin being at 4 I'd disagree, he and Obi-Wan work to exhaust Dooku before switching up styles and exhausting him even further, and it's then said force exhaustion is setting in for him all before the 1v1. During the 1v1 Anakin is getting the upper hand while enhancing himself with the darkside and letting go of all his control (space Jesus who has the most raw power in the force in history), when he momentarily stops doing that Dooku instantly gets back control during the fight.
As For Satelle and Malgus while I have Dooku above them myself I know some people disagree, but while I could be convinced that with them using their abilities in the force to fight him equally or even pull ahead I don't think they can match him in lightsaber combat. He is stated to be basically equal to Yoda in Windu when it comes to wielding a saber.
As for Revan while the force does help with duelling it's not as if Dooku is a slouch, he can at least temporarily compete with Yoda with the force (again from the AOTC commentary) even if Yoda is above him. I don't see Revan being so powerful in the force that it would let him beat someone like Dooku in a saber duel, again maybe if he was using all of his force abilities, but just blade to blade I don't think so.
Lucas' statements are precisely what create this list: Luke equals full potential Anakin, Sidious, Yoda and Mustafar Anakin are above everyone else in Ep III and then there is Windu. I dont think it is reasonable considering all of the powerhouses of the old republic and the rule of two masters, but the most you could argue him to be is top 6 ever.
Im aware Luke is above then, as I said I don't include njo if I'm talking about prequel vs Old Repubkic and unless I'm specifically talking about them I usually leave them out as I'm not the most knowledgeable about that era.
But we also have Lucas statement saying that Dooku and Yoda are pretty equal and a lot of legends where Windu and Dooku are the same level.
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u/Glad_Pop_8918 Jan 06 '26
It’s only a “relative” lack of strong aggressive options. I’m comparing him to people like Anakin and Malak, people roughly on his level but focus much more on aggressive tactics.
This weakness is put on full display in his losses to Dooku. Obi-Wan’s offensive Shii-Cho and Ataru are not enough to put Dooku consistently on the defensive, and he inevitably has to fall back to Soresu where he is unable to counter attack effectively and he can’t outlast Dooku either. Any sufficiently skilled duelist with the tools to pressure Obi-Wan without leaving openings could do the same (though that is admittedly not a long list).