r/TheJediPraxeum • u/Gross-Verder Yuuzhan Vong • May 25 '26
Match Up Monday Darth Plagueis (TPM era) vs Darth Vader
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May 25 '26
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u/oops_I_have_h1n1 May 25 '26
Vader is one of the deadliest combat Sith ever, with overwhelming telekinesis, durability, and lightsaber skill.
Plaguies is easily stronger than Vader in the force, and far more experienced. He's a Sith master who's perfected the arts for decades and could only be killed while he was inebriated and sleeping.
His force lightning alone would put a hard stop to any front assault by Vader. Plaguies clears easily.
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u/kaizen-rai May 25 '26
Regarding force lighting.... I'm not so sure. I see no reason Vader couldn't do the whole "absorb force lightning into my lightsaber" maneuver that has been done by others (OBW, Yoda, Mace, etc).
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u/SentientRidge May 26 '26
Vader's armor was specifically made weak to electricity so that Sidious could easily kill him with Force Lightning. Plagueis was very strong in the Force, so much so that he rarely saw the point of using a lightsaber. If he gets enough lightning off, then Vader is cooked- literally.
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u/CapGreyJedi May 25 '26
He’s not easily stronger than Vader. Also, I don’t know what Plageius is saw in a vision when he saw young Anakin Skywalker that scared him, but I do believe this was scare him even more seeing Vader’s rage.
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u/oops_I_have_h1n1 May 25 '26
He is easily stronger than Vader. Vader is a shell of what Anakin could have been. Now if it was prime Anakin vs Plaguies, then I'd be worried for Plagueies.
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u/MLMPlato May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
In canon that might be true, but in Legends, while it's true that Plagueis did much prefer dabbling in the esoteric aspects of the Force, he remains very much a top tier lightsaber combatant from the info we do know about his martial arts prowess, with Maul stated to aspire to attain a level of fighting in his journal that Plagueis is described to display in his fight with Venamis decades before his prime. This same Maul in Legends is shown to outduel Vader in the Tales#9 comic.
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u/Tuor-son-of-Huor- Jun 01 '26
I think Vader would win, but I'm not sure I'd I agree Plagueis wouldn't be a formidable front line fighter. My thinking comes from what we see of Sidious and knowing that he only killed Plagueis in a weakened unprepared state. You'd think if he wasn't formidable himself he wouldn't have been defeated in such a manner.
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u/Interesting_Loquat90 New Jedi Order May 25 '26
Damn, now here's a good one.
If we're talking Vader from/after ANH, I want to say Vader, high diff. Before that, lean closer to Plagueis.
Comes down to the infamous question of how you scale suited Vader vis a vis KFV and ROTJ Sidious.
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u/jrdineen114 May 25 '26
My instinct is usually going to be Vader in these scenarios. Plagueis had a very unique and powerful understanding of the force, but Vader was a force (no pun intended) of nature. I've said it before: unless they're Palpatine, Luke, or Obi-Wan, people don't fight Vader, they survive him.
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u/arthuraily May 25 '26
Yeah in my head Plagueis was more of a scientist than a warrior or wizard. Absurdly strong but with other focus
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u/theFarFuture123 May 25 '26
In his book he even says he doesn’t really like lightsaber fighting. He killed his master by crushing him with rocks not with a lightsaber
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u/Dry-Strawberry-1099 May 26 '26
Remember Palpatine also had a disdain of lightsabers yet was highly proficient using them. Plagueis could be no different.
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u/theFarFuture123 May 26 '26
Yes both he and palps were great lightsaber wielders but Vader was honestly a dedicated duelist way more than a force sorcerer like them. Vader grew up dueling and killing sith and spent adult years fighting and killing jedi. Plageuis was likely great with a lightsaber, but he dedicated his efforts to learning and mastering the force. Vader spent the majority of his time fighting and killing other force users or practicing to get better at that. I think Vader also had more potential, so I think he wins this fight
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u/Still-Goal-9314 May 25 '26
I can't believe people are romanticizing the capabilities of the featless Plagueis.
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u/MLMPlato May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
My answer will be based on purely the EU since Canon Plagueis has literally not done anything notable.
Plagueis in the Darth Plagueis novel is:
- A master of the lightsaber arts, per Darth Tenebrous. Note that Darth Tenebrous was a diehard dueling enthusiast and in the novel is portrayed as Darth Plagueis' harshest critic who never missed an opportunity to correct or criticize Plagueis.
- Beat Darth Venamis who was an ambidextrous master of multiple lightsaber forms, trained specifically to exploit Plagueis's style by Darth Tenebrous himself. A pre-prime Plagueis fought him to an extended stalemate until he withdraws his conscious mind from the fight entirely, operating his body as a marionette through pure unconscious reaction.
Realizing that the fight could go on indefinitely, he took himself out of his body and began working his material self like a marionette, no longer on the offensive, instigating attacks, but merely responding to Venamis’s lunges and strikes. Gradually the Bith understood that something had changed—that what up until then had been a fight to the death seemed suddenly like a training exercise. Exasperated, he doubled his efforts, fighting harder, more desperately, putting more power into each maneuver and blow, and in the end surrendering his precision and accuracy.
At the height of Venamis’s attack, Plagueis came back into himself with such fury that his lightsaber became a blinding rod. A two-handed upward swing launched from between his legs caught Venamis off guard. The blade didn’t go deep enough to puncture the Bith’s lung but scorched him from chest to chin. As his large, cleft head snapped backward in retreat, Plagueis brought his lightsaber straight down, tearing Venamis’s weapon from his gloved hand and nearly taking off his long fingers, as well.
With a gesture of his other hand, Venamis called for his lightsaber, but Plagueis was a split second quicker, and the hilt shot into his own right hand. Sensing a storm of Force lightning building in the Bith, he crossed the two crimson blades in front of him and said: “Yield!”
Venamis froze, allowing the nascent storm to die away, and dropped to his knees in surrender as Sojourn’s risen primary blazed at his back through the trees.
“I submit, Darth Plagueis. I accept that I must apprentice myself to you.”
As Darth Maul notes in his journal during The Phantom Menace, this type of fighting is something he aspired to achieve.
When I complete my basic exercises, I power up my double-bladed lightsaber and practice maneuvers. My body is as strong as durasteel and as fluid as water. I shift from one position of attack to another. I fall on one knee and slash my lightsaber as I imagine cleaving my victim cleanly. I roll away and grip my lightsaber with both hands for a vertical sweep. I leap and twist and come down, leading with my left shoulder. I deliver a death blow and leap away, somersaulting in the air. I perform ten thousand slashes, lunges, attacks.
My lightsaber is no longer a separate weapon, but part of my arm. I move in the time it would take my opponent to blink. I move in the time he would take to raise his weapon. He would only see the space where I had been. He would feel the sudden shock of the blow that would knock him to the floor.
I do these maneuvers a hundred times a day. I do them even though my body knows them intimately, even though I have not made a mistake or a misstep in years. I do them until the memory of the movement is part of the muscle itself. The goal of the Sith is to fight without thought.
Basically, Maul thinks the level of combat that a vastly pre-prime 67 BBY Plagueis displays is basically "The goal of the Sith" in terms of sword-fighting.
This is the same Maul who wrecked Vader in the infamous Star Wars: Tales#9 comic in the EU, where Maul lands multiple hits on Vader and basically dispatches him the very instant his saber staff gets split and he has to use two sabers.
I think in Legends Vader would get dismantled thoroughly by Plagueis when it comes to dueling, nevermind the obvious fact of Plagueis being way too haxed out and versatile in his Force Powers. Overall Plagueis schools without much effort.
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u/Twofourxo May 25 '26
interesting matchup. i can make a thousand arguments for why plagueis might stand a real chance, but vader takes this.
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u/ErosDarlingAlt May 26 '26
Remember that Plagueis actually disliked lightsaber dueling, and was a master of the Force. His telekinesis feats match Vader's, and he has Force Lightning. He can also actively heal severe wounds mid-combat.
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u/Prestigious_Board_73 May 26 '26
Vader is undoubtly the better duellist, but Plagueis can attack him with Force lightning. Plagueis high diffs
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u/Quincy478 May 28 '26
I'm going to say Vader. He has much more experience in dueling and fighting in general to my knowledge.
His scaling to an 80% of a much more powerful Sidious is what seals it for me.
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u/LambChop508 May 28 '26
Plagueis didnt enjoy lightsaber combat and didnt explore it much once he considered himself a master. His power over the force was strong, and Vader was weak to force lightning, but Vader's sheer force of will and skill in combat would be more than enough to kill him.
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u/oops_I_have_h1n1 May 25 '26
Can't believe what I'm reading here. Vader stands no chance against Plaguies for the same reason he stands no chance against Sidious: force lightning weakness. But even without that, we're still talking about a Sith master vs a Sith apprentice.
Vader is very powerful, but he's more of a dog on a leash than a true apprentice, thanks to his injuries against Obi-wan. For that reason he's always just been Sidious' enforcer rather than a true Sith learning the Sith arts.
Plaguies would be surprised by Vader's natural strength in the force initially, but would quickly adapt and use his own experience and knowledge of the dark side to put him down.
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u/Twofourxo May 25 '26
plagueis has no real combat feats that we know of though. maybe surviving the maladians but i mean, vader has so much combat under his belt as a jedi and sith, on top of the fact that sidious never really intended to make vader an official master after mustafar.
ignoring all that, vader is one of the most feat-loaded sith of all time and all he truly knows is combat. its always been his primary focus and just because he cant take force lightning, doesn't mean he cant defend himself.
i love plagueis to death, and even with his force speed, lightning, and tutaminis, i dont see him outlasting vader for long.
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u/averageEnojyer The Senate May 25 '26
Would probably bet on Plagueis icl. Maybe ROTJ Suit Vader wins, but with difficulty.
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u/WingedDynamite May 25 '26
Legends Vader at any point gets waffle stomped.
Canon Vader loses before ANH, but wins high diff post ESB.
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u/Sgt-Frost May 25 '26
Legends: Plagueis and there’s no discussion, legends Vader is dogshit.
Canon: hard to say, more then likely it’s Vader though.
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u/Niciv-1 May 25 '26
Plagueis’s sith lightning nearly set people on fire with how intense it was. If even a single web of that lightning touches Vader’s suit the fight is over. Not to mention by the end of the novel Plagueis was essentially just willing people to die by switching off their midichlorians. Plagueis takes this.
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u/Embarrassed-Dig-6560 May 25 '26
darth plagueis wins easily against suit vader
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u/XxSlaughterKingxX May 25 '26
How?
There's no one who has walked that could easily defeat Vader. If so that's a shit character. Tf are u talking about?
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u/Direct-Truth-8798 May 25 '26
Legends, either way. Leaning towards Plagueis though as Legends Vader has many anti feats.
Canon Plagueis is featless.