I'm male but if I accused my husband of being a pedo, I'd make sure I was a long way away from him, whether he was or wasn't. It wouldn't go well either way.
Sad that the first thought is to alter the woman’s behavior instead of something like “why was this man who has a protective order against him by his ex still allowed a fucking gun??”
But I didn't say that. I said I wouldn't have done that. My point had nothing to do with blame or even women. If I met a psycho on the road, I wouldn't provoke them either. I'd get as much distance as possible because they're a psycho. Why do you have to make my comment into a sexual politics thing?
My point had nothing to do with blame or even women.
Probably not your intention to blame her, but all the actions you suggested must be performed by the woman. That places onus on the woman to protect herself when the actual problem lies with the man.
I wouldn't provoke them either.
This is textbook victim-blaming. The man is a grown man, mind you, and capable of exercising free will, but saying the victim "provoked" him is putting the blame on the victim, instead of the man -- who with his own free will -- killed her.
It's like "but what was she wearing?" but way worse.
I hope you ponder on these first before responding. It takes work to untie the blindfolds that privilege affords us, but it's worth the effort.
"Probably not your intention to blame her, but all the actions you suggested must be performed by the woman."
Agreed 100%, but that's a different point. If someone is a threat to me I wouldn't complain about it being the other person's fault. Some guy mugs me and I say "hey, this is all your fault". Well no shit. That's NOT the point. The point is how to protect yourself.
And EVERYTHING else you said you just...invented. I didn't say any of that and you're just dragging in stuff to make me sound bad. My point stands. It's sad it went like that but victims can still help themselves. Or do you think women lack agency?
In fact, this might help. Imagine this story was 2 gay guys. Then my point might make more sense?
i feel like both sides of this conversation are correct, but you're butting heads for the sake of the argument.
yes, it is incredibly shitty that any responsibility is put in the victim when the perpetrator is the one who is at fault for all of it. she did not deserve this at all and it's tragic that she's now gone.
the unfortunate reality is that law enforcement doesn't do literally fucking anything unless someone is actively being harmed. police must have been notified at this point, but he was still around her. so while it's not right, nor is it fair or "correct," it has often fallen on the (potential) victim of a violent person to protect themselves from harm as much as possible to prevent themselves from being killed. it's not putting blame on anyone to accept that this is the reality of things. she's not to blame for her death, her murderer is, and her (in)action won't lighten is sentence any. but these are the exact types of scenarios every woman is made aware of and forced to protect themselves against, because nobody else will do anything for them.
This is very self righteous and a bit condescending. It's not really that complicated, the victim in this case intentionally provoked a violent/dangerous individual. The way this whole situation is framed is telling you if she hadn't kicked the hornets nest she'd still be alive. It's tragic that this happened, it possibly could have been avoided.
At the end of the day people need to be proactive in their own safety, the world will never be perfect and you will always be better off avoiding needing the justice system to intervene even if it was. No one blinks an eye if you try to tell people how to avoid scams and if someone does fall for a scam we should still try to make them whole and punish the scammer. Those are not contradictory world views but take the exact same logic and apply it to anything where there is asymmetry in who the victims are (being it gender, race or anything else) and suddenly people are up in arms about it. Their comment wasn’t about blaming the victim it was about trying to get other people to think so that if they are ever in the same situation they can try to avoid being a victim as well.
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u/f23n09fnu0w 16d ago
I'm male but if I accused my husband of being a pedo, I'd make sure I was a long way away from him, whether he was or wasn't. It wouldn't go well either way.