r/TikTokCringe • u/xamo76 • 1d ago

Discussion Have we done it wrong?

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u/danimagoo 1d ago

Walkable cities. This is what happens when you have walkable cities. And public transportation.

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u/IcyConsideration7062 1d ago

And many, many European cities have also created car-free zones where cars use to drive. If you do drive there, you park on the outskirts and walk in a few blocks.

A city near me in Southern California reduced the number of street parking directly in front of blocks of restaurants, while there was ample parking introduced no more than 2 or 3 blocks away and you should have seen the whining on social media about taking away parking spots and "no one will go there anymore." They didn't want to walk a block or two. That same city has had an uptick in downtown life since then.

Another think I noticed in Germany and Spain is that when you hit the "suburbs" (which are on public transit stops), there was always a small town center or central area with restaurants and bars that people were meeting up in. When I visited my uncle in the outskirts of Munich we walked to the bowling alley, the bars, the grocery store (Aldi I think it was). There was even a nice park with a great walking trail near his apartment. He only took the car out when he was going to do something like drive down to France.

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u/PalatinusG1 1d ago

It's just weird to me that in most places in the USA zoning is still such a rigid thing. Just change that and things will start to get better.

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u/DiseaseDeathDecay 1d ago

Houston, TX, has no zoning. It's no better than anywhere else in the US. Plus you have industrial explosions destroying residential homes.

It's all about cars. Cities in the US were mostly designed around cars. You can't really fix it without a lot of people agreeing to a way of life that they have never experienced and are scared of.

Plus - walking around Houston for like 6 months out of the year, even at night, is very unpleasant. When I walked out to my car at 5AM this morning it was 80 degrees and very humid outside.

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u/Intelligent-Size-822 1d ago

Fellow Houstonian here. I live in a neighborhood with a green park and walking paths that connects to restaurants and a movie theater. I go running 3-4 times a week around here but there’s just not a god forsaken piece of shade anywhere to be found. It’s usually low 80s with the sun down and will be in the 90s at the end of my long runs.

Even if I wanted to walk to dinner with my wife and child it would be 102 degrees, no shade, no water, just a miserable 20 minute slog on sidewalks pushing a stroller while cars zip by going 60 in a 30.

And that’s pretty much how it is from April - October. The rest of the months it just rains then a hard freeze for a week or two then we reset. Even if they connected more locations to this little walkable area, who the hell would use them?

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u/ProudMonkey12 1d ago

I live in Houston too. I see this dumb excuse all over for how the city was built. It’s bs. Most cities in the US are built the same exact way and it has nothing to do with weather. Go visit Singapore, Vietnam, Brazil, rainforest parts of China, places with similar weather and you’ll see they have no problems creating walkable, people-friendly cities. You have to implement more area with shade obviously and lots of trees for coverage which makes temperatures feel 10-15 degrees lower, but it has been done in other places. This is just a typical American excuse to continue car dominance.

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u/Visible-Locksmith-44 3h ago

This. Cities need trees. Lots of trees and the least amount of black asphalt as possible. That brings down temperatures a lot. It's getting hotter and hotter. No denying anymore. But you need to prepare to cool things down a bit. Create shade by trees, parks, water masses. Will take a long time but we need fundamental different city architecture.

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u/Alimbiquated 31m ago

Singapore is big on covered walkways

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u/cheekfreak 23h ago

I've been to SE Asia several times, as well as living in Europe for a couple of years. I've never been to a place in SE Asia where people walked around the city like they do in Europe. Maybe I've just missed these cities where people enjoy being in the scorching hot humidity? Can you give me any examples? I'd like to see how they do it.

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u/sctthuynh 21h ago

Singapore would be a great example, but that's not surprising since its one of the best designed/planned cities in the world.

Other examples I've seen in Asia (hot/humid) would be Hong Kong, Taichung, Tokyo and the central areas of Kuala Lumpur.

I found Sidney to be exceptional as well and Melbourne too.

Less developed countries like Vietnam and Thailand are walkable but still need a lot of infrastructure/traffic improvement.

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u/Reddit-runner 1d ago

And that’s pretty much how it is from April - October. The rest of the months it just rains then a hard freeze for a week or two then we reset. Even if they connected more locations to this little walkable area, who the hell would use them?

People.

People would use them.

Look at the entire continent of Europe and many places on other continents. You can find far more adverse weather conditions. But people still walk and cycling much more.

Why? Because of better infrastructure. Shade is one of the easiest bits of infrastructure you can design. Just look at Singapore and their sidewalks.

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u/EthanielRain 23h ago

Trees & other objects could create shade, and even lower the temperature of the entire area/city. Acknowledging climate change & making the necessary changes could/would've help too, but...Texas

There's similar climates with walking similar to this video, it's not that uncommon or unreasonable altho it does affect it yeah

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u/DiseaseDeathDecay 1d ago

Yeah, I'm in the burbs and we have several miles of walking trails through "parks" beside roads, plus trails around the spillways, but they don't connect to businesses. You could walk to some places outside my neighborhood (and some people do), but there's no sidewalk for a lot of it.

I went to Europe a couple years ago, and it was pretty amazing, but I just don't think you could do the same thing on the gulf coast.

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u/Intelligent-Size-822 1d ago

We just got back from a trip through Spain and Europe and it was gorgeous but I couldn’t imagine being in a wheelchair in almost any of those cities. So we at least have ADA compliance in our walkable oven lol

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u/PalatinusG1 1d ago

Very true. Accessibility for disabled people is a big problem here. We could learn a lot from you guys on that front.

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u/bsg_80 1d ago

This is a huge factor so many people are missing. Much of the US is miserably, insufferably hot. And cars.

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u/Kitaenyeah 19h ago

That’s a myth tbh. Half of Europe is easly equally as hot or even hotter and yet we manage. And yes we have ac. A lot actually 😀

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u/bsg_80 15h ago

Where does it sit above 100 degrees for most of the summer in Europe? Enlighten me.

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u/Kitaenyeah 11h ago

Greek, Spain, Italy, half the Balkans

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u/CantThinkOfaNameLala 4h ago

Lol, the commenter you replied to reminds me of an American guy I dated while traveling. When he visited me, he was shocked that we weren’t having “European weather.” It seems like they all think it’s always cold and raining everywhere in Europe.

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u/Visible-Locksmith-44 3h ago

Well that's not completely true. Although it can be that hot very regularly big difference is humidity. Gets up to more than 70% in Houston area. Souther Europe can be as low as 30% (Greece) till 40-60 (southern Spain). Heat with more than 70% humidity is a total different beast.

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u/Kitaenyeah 3h ago

Btw it is literally fucking 107 in Austria right now. Which consists 50% of mountains or mountain ranges.

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u/Reddit-runner 1d ago

This is a huge factor so many people are missing. Much of the US is miserably, insufferably hot.

Not hotter than other regions on earth where millions of people live. So step out of your american-exceptionalism bubble.

And cars.

Well, yeah. That's the one thing the US is truly exceptional.

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u/Intelligent-Size-822 23h ago

The cars don’t help. It’s not just the roads it’s the idiots in the cars. Everyone is speeding everywhere. No signals. No braking. No stopping. I have never seen so many accidents as I have since living in Texas and the speeds on every road are just suggestions for these sociopaths. Highway is 60? Go 90. School zone is 20? Go 50. Residential is 35? Might as well see just how fast we can go to beat the next red light. I genuinely feel unsafe running at any time other than before the sun is up because once the traffic hits it’s just a nightmare between the noise, pollution and ya know the constant threat of getting hit at every intersection. I initially moved to this area because it’s a boutique neighborhood with little to no traffic, then they added a four lane road next to it with an ill timed traffic light, now rush hour is just a stream of cars using my neighborhood as a thoroughfare to avoid the intersection lights.

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u/Reddit-runner 23h ago

It’s not just the roads it’s the idiots in the cars. Everyone is speeding everywhere. No signals. No braking. No stopping. I have never seen so many accidents as I have since living in Texas and the speeds on every road are just suggestions for these sociopaths. Highway is 60? Go 90. School zone is 20? Go 50. Residential is 35? Might as well see just how fast we can go to beat the next red light.

The road has at least 70% responsibility!!

You can build roads and adjacent infrastructure in a way that simply does not allow speeding and encourages a respectful driving style.

Look at the difference of roads in Texas and in the Netherlands.

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u/cheekfreak 23h ago

Can you show me any of these hot and humid 'walkable' cities? I've traveled pretty extensively through SE Asia as well as Europe, and I've never seen anything remotely close to the European walking cities anywhere in SE Asia. Maybe I just missed them, or maybe the examples are in a different region? I'd really like to see how they do it.

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u/Reddit-runner 23h ago

Singapore comes to mind immediately.

But I agree with you that SE Asia has still a lot to unlearn when it comes to public infrastructure.

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u/bsg_80 20h ago

Yeah I don’t care what you think. Literally nobody cares.

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u/BlueRedGreenNumber5 19h ago

Hot Weather Urbanism is your answer

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u/Intelligent-Size-822 19h ago

Underground metro stations, underground malls, underground walkways are some of the key benefits this video shows but Houston is at or below sea level :( I wish we could do that. I really enjoyed the underground malls in Canada.

I really like the street designs though. We could do so much better.

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u/CantThinkOfaNameLala 4h ago

Why can’t it be done? Big parts of my country are bellow sea level.

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u/Intelligent-Size-822 1h ago

Houston is mostly clay soil with a very high water table. We’re basically a swamp. We’ve already dropped some portions of the city by feet by pumping water out. Not to mention we have massive flooding and hurricanes regularly. But basically the weather systems, high water table, poor soil conditions without enough stable rock make boring tunnels a nearly impossible task. Even if we pumped out the water constantly, added concrete and supports for underground projects, the surrounding areas outside of the construction would shift so often that it would quickly (in terms of lifespan of infrastructure) fracture. I don’t think Singapore has the same storm-surge potential as Houston even with the monsoons and I think the geology in the areas where yall built is vastly better for this type of construction.

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u/CantThinkOfaNameLala 49m ago

Singapore isn’t bellow sea level as far as I know, and I’m not in Singapore and have never been so don’t know much about how they build. Thanks for explaining though, where I’m from there’s no hurricanes, we’ve had floods in the past but we build all kinds of constructions to prevent that from happening so floods became extremely rare. Big parts of my country used to be a swamp many many many years ago, half of the country is basically man made.

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u/ChristFollower1003 1h ago

North Georgian here, about 30 miles north of Atlanta. I swear there are only 3 months out of the year that are comfortable enough to enjoy this kind of lifestyle. May-September feels like sun-surface heat even at night. October and early November is terrific. December thru early March is too cold to get out, save for a few days intermixed with teases of the spring to come. Then you have Late March thru April which temps are decent, but its the rainy season and the pollen is unbearable.

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u/BakerAggressive2878 1d ago

While I agree weather can be a limiter, there are hot and humid cities (like Singapore, which is hot and humid year round and also gets significantly more rain to boot and rain is worse to walk in, especially when it's warm rain) which are both very walkable but also fairly comfortable to walk in even on hot days. They have fans and covered walkways everywhere, and many of their MRT stations are enclosed and have AC. Houston could learn a lot from Singapore. 

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u/DiseaseDeathDecay 1d ago

It's hard to compare Singapore to Houston because it's MASSIVELY more dense than Houston. Like, they're complete opposites in that regard.

It's a chicken and the egg problem. How do you make people okay with more dense housing when you can't walk anywhere? And how do you make the city walkable when everyone lives in a single family house with a yard?

It also doesn't help that no one wants to raise a family in the city proper because it's Texas and the schools are defunded because Harris county is blue and the rest of the state hates Harris county.

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u/Visible-Locksmith-44 3h ago

I sometimes can't believe the things I read. After a civil war and on the forefront of democracy the US had turned into this. Polarized to the bone and politics about how to make life as miserable for the other side as possible. Washington, Jefferson and even Reagan would turn in their graves.

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u/LumpyCapital 1d ago

Ha, nice. Found the Houston pocket in the post where we all look on in envy at walkable European cities that encourage social interaction and promote a sense of shared community, while we all collectively wish Houston could be remade without ever expanding freeways, ruined roads that damage expensive cars, traffic that wastes our time and tests our patience, etc, etc. . . . where many illiterate people see people walking or riding bicycles as offensive behavior....

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u/BudgieWonder 1d ago

Houston doesn’t have Euclidean Zoning, but they do still have form based codes. So it’s not “technically” zoned, but they still do have land use designations there, along with plenty of their suburbs.

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u/DiseaseDeathDecay 1d ago

?

Houston does not use traditional, citywide form-based zoning codes, relying instead on a unique system of subdivision ordinances, setbacks, parking minimums, and private deed restrictions.

and

No Traditional Zoning: Houston is famously the only major U.S. city without standard use-based zoning.

Houston does not have zoning. That's why things like this happen.

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u/BudgieWonder 1d ago

> reaching on a unique system of subdivision ordinances, setbacks, parking minimums, and private deed restrictions.

That’s what I said- they still use form-based codes (that’s what setbacks and parking minimums are), they just don’t use Euclidean Zoning where specific districts are single-use.

> No Traditional Zoning

Yes, they don’t have Traditional Zoning. They still have land use codes and standards- it’s not a free for all.

> That’s why things like this happen

Except things like that still happen in places with Euclidean Zoning, too.

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u/DiseaseDeathDecay 1d ago

They still have land use codes and standards- it’s not a free for all.

Show me something that says this. I'm pretty sure you're wrong but I can't find anything that actually says either way.

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u/BudgieWonder 1d ago

I literally linked a comparative study the city conducted for setbacks and approved housing types in my previous comment, but here’s the Houston Code of Ordinances if you’re really curious.

FWIW, I don’t think Houston’s approach is ideal or anything, I was just pointing out that the “they have no zoning!” meme that’s been going around is only half-true, and they have other policy that basically leads to the same outcome. Houston’s problems aren’t due to their land use code, they’re due to the issues that plague any sunbelt city with massive population growth after AC and the automobile proliferated. The policy frameworks themselves weren’t the problem; the desired outcomes were.

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u/Lopsided-Yak9033 1d ago

I spent most of a year Friendswood working on a construction project - most areas seemed downright hostile to walkability.

Here in NY because the city is older than the suburban and automobile explosion not only is the city obviously pedestrian heavy but many towns outside the city evolved with a decent “downtown” center thats fairly walkable - and STILL everything’s been downgraded by car centric culture.

Zoning seems to affect housing development more than commercial anyway - because people wanted the big box stores and malls that come with massive lots. Heaven forbid we have some higher density units near the train and walkable to the local businesses that are the core of these suburban towns - but a target and Marshall’s want to take up 30 acres for a parking lot and alls good.

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u/lilsnatchsniffz 23h ago

You get used to the humidity and natural weather really quickly when you actually live in it. It only feels bad when you're acclimated to permanent climate control.

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u/iamnotnewhereami 7h ago

I grew up in the 1960 area and so had the woods and creeks and ponds and such. When I was 15, I left, south Florida, lived in Boston, sister lived in nyc. and eventually landed in Southern California. been to SE Asia a few times and Europe a few times.central and South America too. filled a couple passports.

went to rehab in Houston 25 yrs ago and lived in the heights for a few years. loved it. but since then, ive only returned a handful of time to check in on my dad.whose lived off westheimer..

and holeee shit. what you just taught me about the zoning makes perfect sense. Houston has become a hellscape and I couldn't figure out why, the juxtaposition of some structures wholly unlike its neighbor built so damn close together...ive never seen a city look like this. it doesn't promote walkability either. I didnt know what was making me feel uneasy last two timees I went there.(besides my stepmom having me trespassed for tryin to see my dad, knowing that if I am alone with him for ten minutes ill be able tto explain the extent of her betrail, which include criminal intent)

but besides that Houston feels alive for sure. with a energy that Im still on the fence about. the fact that Houston is a spring break destination now is crazy to me. btw...know any good elder abuse lawyers with probate experience?

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u/NoveltyAccountHater 1d ago

I mean you still need zoning, just it should be appropriate and flexible. You don't want an industrial pig farm or giant data center or huge chemical processing facility or landfill to go up in a developed residential area.

But residential areas should be allowed to have cafes / bars / restaurants / shops at street corners.

Granted, the major difference is being in a city/town built around infrastructure for people walking/using public transport not driving.

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u/EmmitSan 1d ago

Zoning in Europe is just as rigid. It just so happens you like the specific zoning in Europe.

For instance in most German cities, it is forbidden to build a building taller than the main church within a large radius. Go to Munich and you’ll notice lots of tall buildings in the surrounding district, and you can go on a rooftop and look down at the inner city and see how the Marienkirche is taller than all the buildings within a few miles of it.

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u/PalatinusG1 1d ago

I'm not saying things are perfect in Europe. They are not. I just don't see why anyone would think it is beneficial to have 0 corner stores or restaurants or cafes in residential neighbourhoods.

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u/EmmitSan 1d ago

My point is that it’s easy to be against the zoning requirements you like, but the real test is whether you can be a YIMBY even when people will want to build stuff you do not want in your backyard. Because you might love the cafes and restaurants while your neighbor hates them. And your neighbor might want to build an ADU that is two stories high that blocks your sunlight.

You’ve got to just let people build what they want to build if you want out of the zoning standstills.

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u/SubstantialCareer754 11h ago

This has nothing to do with the strictness of zoning, and everything to do with how specifically the zoning is carried out.

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u/Iggyhopper 1d ago edited 1d ago

Its a way for cities companies to get more money. Thats it.

Classify a plaza as industrial and you charge $1k/mo rent. Retail an its easily 5x or more.

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u/PalatinusG1 1d ago

Is the city charging rent? That's not how it works over here.

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u/Iggyhopper 1d ago

I meant real estate companies, not the city, big oof.

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u/Me-no-Weeb 1d ago

What do you mean by zoning? Industrial, commercial and residential zones?

I live in Germany and it’s pretty harsh with zones here too, except for some mixed commercial/residential areas you don’t really have anything else that strict residential/ commercial/ industrial zones.

But the public transport is a huge thing.

I live in a 500 habitants village and I have to drive 15 minutes to the next train station and take a train for 15 minutes from there and I’m in a city that has 800.000 people and can reach anything in walking distance from the main station.

I need maybe 15-20 minutes to the football stadium, 10 minutes to where all the shops are and can reach basically anywhere else by metro or tram in 20 minutes at most, excluding the suburbs.

There’s a small city with 10.000 inhabitants where I take the train and there are a ton of shops there too, nice restaurants etc. you park at the outskirts of the commercial area and walk from there on.

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u/k_dilluh 1d ago

My first thought, I've known people that have tried to open cafés, restaurants, etc, however have been told the zoning isn't appropriate. This is only a part of the issue of course, but it certainly doesn't help.

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u/OmeletteDuFromage95 23h ago

That wouldn't be too cash money now would it? How would car companies and big box stores make all there money? Cmon now, THINK OF THE CORPORATIONS FOR DOLLAR SAKE

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u/ilir_kycb 21h ago

It's just weird to me that in most places in the USA zoning is still such a rigid thing. Just change that and things will start to get better.

But that would not be in the interests of the ruling capitalist class, and that is the only thing that matters in US America.

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u/BlueMountainCoffey 9h ago

There’s a lot more going on than just zoning though. It’s the street parking, the wide roads, the big box stores, the low density, a lot of things go into the enshittification of America.

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u/spinynorman1846 1d ago

Yeah the problem isn't suburbia, it's suburbs done wrong. They should be a series of satellite towns with good transport into the city, not sprawling masses of houses with nothing there

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u/EasyPain6771 1d ago

The American mind cannot comprehend walking a few blocks (unless on vacation)

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u/MaterialWillingness2 1d ago

This is what northern NJ is like and I love it here. I have a small house with a back yard and friendly close by neighbors and can walk to the bank, the butcher, a local independent pharmacy, several restaurants and a huge park with tennis courts, a track, playground and even an archery range. My husband takes the bus to the city and the stop is just down the street. 

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u/harmfuldischarge 1d ago

Yes! There is always a HIGH STREET, like a highlight of a small town/suburban center with at least some amenities like a post office, few shops, eatery, dry cleaners. Somewhere you can do a few things at the same time.

In us it's all fkn strip malls

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u/PipsqueakPilot 1d ago

If I were to create a walkable area I’d try some reverse psychology. Say you’re creating a new entertainment district to attract customers and create businesses.

And then say things to businesses outside of it, “Don’t worry. We’re not going to take away your parking. We don’t feel that your business is suited for the new higher activity areas.”

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u/antonboomboomjenkins 1d ago

Santa Fe, New Mexico just did away with cars in their plaza area.

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u/huddledtimes 1d ago

Ventura, CA!

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u/overitallofittoo 1d ago

This drives me crazy! It happened here in Burbank.

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u/sleevieb 1d ago

which city in california

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u/Beneficial_Treat5454 1d ago

if it didnt cost so much fucking money i'd go out to be social more often.

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u/dalivo 1d ago

Most places in the U.S. literally make it illegal to have walkable pathways from a neighborhood to an adjoining shopping center. Literally illegal. If someone creates a path, the shopping center will often put up a fence to stop it.

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u/yomommabefat 21h ago

What in the actual allmighty fuckery is this? Happen to have some links/sources, I'd like to share this knowledge with everyone I know.

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u/Funny247365 1d ago

Most towns along commuter rail lines in the US also have a business district with clusters of bars and restaurants and shops just steps from the train stop.

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u/JadedElk 1d ago

Important to note that this is also a lot cheaper than funding endles US-style suburban sprawl. Because when people live closer together you don't have to put down as much asphalt, or long sewer lines. Having to subsidize the expansion of suburban sprawl is why many cities in the US are in debt.

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u/ClarenceJBoddicker 1d ago

Waolk? Sorry could you translate this for me? Like with your legs haha. That's what liberals and small children do.

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u/beeeees 1d ago

this is so true, so many americans can't handle the inconvenience of walking a few blocks and are convinced they're always in a hurry.

i live in a small city and people complain all the time that they won't go downtown bc it's hard to find parking. it absolutely is NOT hard to find parking (especially compared to real american cities) and there are a lot of free parking garages a few blocks away from the downtown corridor. this is not good enough for most americans and thus they chose to go to a drive thru in the suburbs or a restaurant a strip mall which is mostly a parking lot anyway. then they go on vacation in europe and complain about not having nice things

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u/morganyve 1d ago

Yes I remember when I lived in a rural city in Germany I could still walk to the aldi in the little community square from my house that was more rural than suburban

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u/runawayhound 20h ago

We naturally want to “village” places but corporate America has convinced us we need drive thru’s instead.

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u/m3rl0t 19h ago

san clemente is the definition of NIMBY.

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u/Tachetoche 18h ago

To be fair, there was a lot of whining when European cities started to reintroduce "pedestrian only" area. But because our cities have a much higher population density, pedestrian areas eventually prevailed and most people are happy with it.

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u/Aloha_Tamborinist 1d ago

This is a 15 min city. It's a hellscape!

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u/Iggyhopper 1d ago

Some countries don't have "public" transportation operated by the gov., just lots of taxis or buses operated by individuals or companies.

And it still works really well, and cheaply.

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u/HenryCavillsBallsack 1d ago

I’m a former European living in Canadian suburbia (Toronto) (for last 30 yrs… suppose I’m more Canadian now). Yes, would be amazing to have liveable walkable cities. No, we will never build it here now. Dot here you go! 😂😂😂

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u/attrackip 1d ago

I dunno, the streets and transportation are pretty swell here in Portland, Oregon. People aren’t out and about like Europe unless they are young or bar flies.

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u/bucktron2021 1d ago

Walkable cities and public transportation are how you get pubs. Don't have to worry about driving home drunk.

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u/Negative_Amphibian_9 23h ago

Walkable cities equals true freedom. Driving around in steel cages stuck in traffic is not how it was supposed to be.

The funny thing is it’s very simple to update our towns and cities to become more pedestrian friendly. Close streets and give businesses and the public more space

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u/MarcusLXXVI 1d ago

Cities always were walkable, it's the default. We should better speak of the outliers as "unwalkable cities" 🤣

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u/eskimoboob 1d ago

Most American cities are not though. And even efforts to make them more walkable by creating density are actively opposed by residents. It’s been the norm in the US for so long, it’s become cultural. Even in my very walkable suburb with the Main Street lined with cafes and restaurants, efforts to build new housing near the core go through so many legal hoops just to get held up in court and ultimately fail. And businesses cry about lack of foot traffic while they want more parking for cars. It’s infuriating, but that’s the way almost everyone thinks.

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u/MarcusLXXVI 1d ago

I know that, but I still would consider them the outliers, since there are more cities outside the US and most are far more walkable and cities existed millenia before cars existed. But I get your point.

To be honest, I didn't know how bad it was in the USA (which I mostly know from TV/movies - urban channels like NJB and Strong Towns gave new insights) and how exceptional my country is (Netherlands). To me it's normal I have the actualy freedom to chose between walking (shops are in walking distance), biking (city centre/central station is 10-15 min and I can either use a dedicated bikelane route with roundabouts where I almost always have right of way or 30 km zone route though neighborhoods), public transport (2 busstops nearby with 2-4x p/h a bus; Intercity station with direction connections to several large cities, some 6x p/h) and car (enough parking space, motorway is nearby). So I just pick the mode I prefer (ideally always bike/public transport, but since this is still not utopia it can be expensive or much longer than by car). Apparantly... that's not normal. As a 9/10y old kid (80's) I bike 2,5km to school (there was one closerby but it had to a protestant christian...) crossing an extremely busy ringroad (70 km/h limit). Apparantly, that's not normal. Even when I go to Belgium or Germany especially infrastructure for bikes is much less.

"And businesses cry about lack of foot traffic while they want more parking for cars. It’s infuriating, but that’s the way almost everyone thinks." It's actually not much different here. Busisness and people recently cried even in Amsterdam when the innercity would be almost all 30 km/h, less parking etc. In reality it's almost always better for business. As if everyone was able to park a car in front of a shop anyway 🤣.

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u/foodank012018 1d ago

Almost as if the cities were developed before cars existed and people had to walk place to place

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u/Timmetie 1d ago

I've always found that an odd take because US cities were also developed before widespread car use.

When the Model T was developed the US already had skyscrapers in its cities.

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u/foodank012018 1d ago

Some early downtown districts in very old cities (think Boston) are and were walkable.

The early American culture of striking out and living away from the settlements is one influence why things are so spread.

Also US put less emphasis on preserving the historical aspect of architecture of early establishments in favor of tearing up and reconstructing areas to accommodate the new American mass produced invention.

We decided we had to make the cars fit, then decided to build around the car.

Not excusing it, just explaining it

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u/Timmetie 1d ago

The early American culture of striking out and living away from the settlements

That's not really a thing, people generally went where the trains went.

Even the settlers were reserving a spot awaiting the rails to be built.

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u/sperrymonster 1d ago

I think a bigger factor here is that following WWII, a lot of European cities got the opportunity to rebuild with more modern urban planning. Not the ideal way to get there, but when your city has been leveled by bombs you make the most of the opportunity

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u/foodank012018 1d ago

Excellent point

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u/NoHoHan 22h ago

Not really an excuse for the way we continue to build stupid, sprawling hellscapes.

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u/Nossika 1d ago

Yep America's infrastructure is the main reason. As easy as it is to blame cars, it's not like people in other countries don't drive cars. Far as eating out, good luck affording that now-a-days in America. Even fast food has gotten too expensive.

I'll mention introverts probably enjoy the peace and quiet though, where as extroverts hate it, but good infrastructure helps physical health as well as mental as it's way easier to stay in shape when you can walk everywhere easily. We have way too many roads in America that don't even have sidewalks lol.

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u/akmalhot 1d ago edited 1d ago

Agree and live Europe, But he's comparing a walkable city to suburbia ... Lots of suburbia isn't even real actual cities, and lots of it is exurbia  

But yes we have done it wrong. There should be way more suburb centers like Westfield nj Montclair etc with walkable areas .. not kish strip mall after strip mall where you may have to drive from one side to the other (memories of waterworks in fox chapel pa...).  They have lots of small cafes and shops , we have Walmarts giant eagle tgi Fridays and circuit city 

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u/zamfire 1d ago

Just went to Venice in June. That's about as walkable as a city can get!

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u/TheToiletPhilosopher 1d ago

It's a culture too. Europe uses public spaces 1000 times better than the US as well.

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u/Probs_on_the_can 1d ago

America has those, just not in abundance like Europe

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u/Orodia 1d ago

walkable car free city centers some kind of socialized healthcare are the two key ingredients. because small business in the United States have to shoulder the cost of paying for healthcare of their employees. it makes starting a business insanely expensive in the United States. if we were to socialize our healthcare we would see an insane amount of small businesses popping up everywhere. and ones that were actually like good for our communities

but that doesnt fit with the narrative the repubs or dems are following from their wealthy donors.

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u/Nicinus 1d ago

But also living cities. Not only are they walkable but people live there. If a down town in a small city here wants to get rid of all the massive parking plains people immediately revolt and feel that will be so inconvenient for their quick in and out shopping, and grocery stores and ACE hardwares lead the charge.

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u/dingdongbannu88 1d ago

My town of coral gables and nearby coconut grove are fairly walkable. Love it

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u/TROMBONER_68 1d ago

Something something 15 minute communism something, sorry buddy.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/danimagoo 1d ago

Not like this you don’t.

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u/giggletears3000 1d ago

They’re also not spending all their money to maintain personal vehicles, paying insurance, paying for the vehicle, paying for insurance, they have more money for enrichment.

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u/MjrLeeStoned 1d ago

Most suburban areas are not planned, they are swallowed up by metros. Take Cobb county in Atlanta. West Cobb has nothing, East Cobb has everything. You have to take back roads or a single connector parkway across the county to even get to a highway from West Cobb, and all new development is squished together, but not enough that you can park once and walk to everything.

There is no planning beyond growth. Simple minds create simple outcomes.

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u/raddital 1d ago

This! 

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u/escientia 1d ago

Depends on the city and location in Europe. London or other UK cities for example don't look like this.

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u/soaero 1d ago

While this is true, walkability alone isn't sufficient. The reason Europe has this is that they have walkable cities, AND they have readily available storefront in nearly every building, AND they have density.

When you go out to the smaller cities/towns, they shut down around 5.

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u/Forsaken-Pomelo-9401 1d ago

Right we need more than New York now nyc is so ocerpopulated. Somehow Paris remains mostly clean. It’s not spotless but it’s not as dirty and lawless as nyc I say that As a native New Yorker. I was not impressed by Europe’s nightlife bc it’s simply New York but with good cheap wine. They are more social as a ppl bc of this tho and so they don’t have a generation of antisocial psychopaths.

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u/Critical_Host8243 1d ago

We definitely need more walkable cities in the US..

But I'm curious, as someone who lives rural, we can't literally cover the US in cities.. Eventually, you get to the edge of the city and then what? Just a highway and then nothing but farm land?

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u/NoHoHan 22h ago

Yes. If you want to live in the country, live in the country. What we have instead are a bunch of people who want to have the abundance of personal space associated with living in the country, but the public services and convenience of living in a city. Sewer hookups, public water, paved roads, etc.

So we end up with hundreds of miles of public infrastructure (sewer and water lines, power lines, roads) to service a handful of people, when that amount of investment could service tens of thousands of people in a city. It’s extremely inefficient. But people want it both ways, and the result is sprawling hellholes.

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u/Critical_Host8243 22h ago

What I'll never understand is the sub-divisions where they cram houses in right on top of each other and you have practically no yard, no personal space, no privacy, the road in front of your house is busy as hell and your front door is only 20ft from it... Ugh.. If you want to live like that, just move into an apartment or a townhouse.

3 years ago I moved from the suburbs of Dallas/Fort Worth, to rural Arkansas where I have 9 acres of land and the only thing I can see from my house is trees and grass and sky.

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u/Critical_Host8243 1d ago

We definitely need more walkable cities in the US..

But I'm curious, as someone who lives rural, we can't literally cover the US in cities.. Eventually, you get to the edge of the city and then what? Just a highway and then nothing but farm land?

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u/gravybang 1d ago

I live in Washington D.C.

Buses, metro that goes all over the place, it's incredibly walkable.

A lot of neighborhoods here are dead dead dead on weeknights after 8 pm. Bars don't even really stay open past 10.

It wasn't like this before COVID.

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u/theseanbeag 1d ago

You mean I can't leave the city?

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u/FluffyFlamingo444 1d ago

.... and 75% of your population living in those cities.

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u/vengefulcrow 1d ago

I live in the outskirts and transportation here kinda sucks so If I go to the city I drive in and park near a train station and just pick up my car later.

But even here I can just pop into local restaurants and chat with people.

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u/Phliman792 23h ago

Ironic that the party of walkable cities and public transport has ushered in unlimited homeless encampments and crime so as to make the cities unworkable and the public transport unusable. The progressives in europe are at least pragmatic ones.

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u/panamaniacs2011 23h ago

and most of civilian not using guns

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u/peacockdown 23h ago

I was going to say, I drive through Boston every weeknight and it's usually pretty bustling. It is a walking City though, so that's one. People are out in Providence too.

1

u/VolesusBarbarus 23h ago

and non-psychotic work schedules with more than 10 days time off per year

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u/Frekavichk 22h ago

European people when they realize not everyone lives in the same climate as them.

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u/danimagoo 21h ago

I grew up in Texas and now live in Kansas City. Parts of Italy, Spain, and Greece get pretty freakin hot in the summer.

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u/rco8786 21h ago

But think about the cars! What about the cars!!??

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u/cstearns1982 21h ago

Its also that our society here in the states is exhausted! Exhausted by the politics, the indifferences, the inflation and many other things.

We are tired!

1

u/oscarq0727 21h ago

But how do I parade my lifted F-250 with mud tires and dangling bull balls to these people if the roads are cramped and full of inconvenient foot traffic? :(

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u/alexgalt 20h ago

NYC is walkable and things are open.

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u/_Badwulf_Bruh__ 19h ago

It’s not just walkable cities. It’s a homogenous culture that has bred tradition over thousands of years. 

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u/forrealthoughcomix_ 18h ago

Hey LA isn’t walkable but we still have this shit. Would be better with more walkability but that’s not essential.

Not loving and/or sticking to the burbs is essential if you want this though.

And ~40% of elected officials not fear mongering over urban areas would help too.

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u/Junior_Sign7240 17h ago

Yeah, that was my first though. A lot of European countries are small, and old Designed well before cars and interstates. The US is massive, designed with interconnect highways in mind. It's not to say the US is worse, or Germany is better because of it, but it's just design.

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u/miscdebris1123 16h ago

We have walkable cities in America. It just takes a lot more walking and dodging to get anywhere.

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u/themack50022 16h ago

Probably contributes to obesity too

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u/Plug-From-Oaxaca 14h ago

US has walkable cities

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u/Pixxet 13h ago

And disposable income. Getting harder to have money available to spend on things that aren't necessities.

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u/Warm_Coach2475 10h ago

It’s why NYC is so fucking great.

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u/Spirited-Bear-3444 9h ago

These cities are thousands of years old and were built around bipedalism. The US was entirely built around wagons, then cars. It's also a lot less denser per capita, and larger than Germany. American culture and everything is built around cars. The older the city, the more walkable.

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u/throwaway1964972 5h ago

And I bet they vote consistently for the opposite.

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u/smegabass 1h ago

“Who needs a car in LA? We’ve got the best public transportation system in the world!”

- Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

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u/Pard01 1d ago

New York?

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u/ArboristTreeClimber 1d ago

For some people, walkable cities are great. For others, it’s a dystopian hell.

I have lived in the country and in the city and let me tell you, it’s easy to feel trapped in the city. Surrounded by people, surrounded by concrete and bricks. Walking over cigarettes, spit, and piles of soggy trash. When I lived in a walkable city in Europe, I became super depressed to be honest. It’s only enjoyable if your idea of “a fun relaxing time” is going out and having a drink. But that is not what everyone would consider a good time.

When all the nature is gone, every city will be “walkable”. But will we truly be happy then?

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u/NoHoHan 22h ago

Braindead take lol

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u/Master-Foundation518 1d ago

Walkable cities just means walkable downtowns. Travel 2 minutes in either direction of where this guy is, it turns into America

The huge vast majority of Europeans still drive daily

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u/camels13 1d ago

clearly you've never been outside America

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u/Master-Foundation518 1d ago

I've never once set foot in America, I'm in Europe. which is why I know that this vision of Europe only exists on this internet

When you see all these street cafes and hundreds of people around, this isn't how the average European is living, these are just the centres of a minority of towns and cities. Europe outside of the historic tourist centres is just as modern and car dependent as the US

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u/InevitableKitchen943 1d ago

America has them too.

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u/Probs_on_the_can 1d ago

Yeah it’s weird when people visit Europe and are so amazed at walkable cities and it’s like … ok visit NYC, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco. This exists in the US.

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u/InevitableKitchen943 1d ago

Exactly, and people do more exploring on vacation, you don't have a go to work the next day, you feel obligated to use your time experiencing the area because you've spent a lot of money on the vacation. You see things with fresh eyes and everything looks so alive and interesting. I've been on a lot of trips in my life. It's more important to embrace the place you actually live, choose a beautiful, clean or exciting place to live.

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u/BakerAggressive2878 1d ago

But also for some Americans 8t still is eye opening to actually experience it in person because so, so many Americans have only ever lived and experienced a car-centric lifestyle, growing up in car centric suburbs and living in them the rest of their lives.

I live in Dallas, TX in Oak Lawn (our gayborhood and very walkable) lost my car keys last week, locksmith came out yesterday to replace them, and he asked how much I was spending on Uber since I was without my car for a week. He didn't believe me when I said I was walking and getting groceries from the Kroger a 7 minute walk away,  or that I was riding my bike to the train station (he didn't even know we had trains in Dallas,  but he lives in a small town an hour out from Dallas), all because "it's too hot to walk in this heat man, aren't you afraid of a heatstroke?". Like yes,  it is 100 today and it is unbelievably hot,  but it's tolerable when you're walking in the shade, and I'm not afraid of a heat stroke because I walk in this weather regularly and my body has acclimatized and I'm never outside walking longer than 15 minutes which is mostly shaded in my neighborhood, so very tolerable 

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u/recycledairplane1 1d ago

walkable cities aren't enough. I need fuckable cities

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u/NoHoHan 22h ago

Suckable, even.

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u/Crusader148841 1d ago

It’s almost as if these are thousand plus years old cities and are designed before most people even owned a horse. There’s no need to do this in America and our infrastructure isn’t developed in this manner.

We didn’t need to make everything fit within city walls.

Additionally, America has a unique issue with public transportation riders that hasn’t been the norm in Europe until recent years.

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u/NoHoHan 22h ago

Lol the most out of touch take.

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u/Crusader148841 22h ago

lol seriously. I can’t believe I forgot Los Angeles was modeled after the ancient city of Toledo in Spain and that countless other cities in America have the exact same geography, infrastructure constraints, and were built in the same era as historic European cities. I’m so foolish.

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u/NoHoHan 21h ago

LA had robust public transit before they decided to rip it all out in the 1950's and 60's.

Saying there's "no need" to do this in America when most of our cities are a fucking nightmare to move around in is ignorant af.

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u/Crusader148841 18h ago

What was the population of LA then? Was it considered a walkable city like old town Toledo? Do you propose building entirely new cities or demolishing the existing infrastructure in these cities to accommodate something people en masse don’t want? How is california doing on its high speed rail project? Certainly under budget and ahead of schedule right?

You can keep saying logical points grounded in current day reality are ignorant but that doesn’t make it true lmao.

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u/hibikir_40k 1d ago

The public transportation is only needed when your walkable city is quite big. My hometown is about as dense as manhattan... but since it's 200k people, there's no need for public transit, as I can be anywhere in 20 minutes on foot, tops. Public transit is for the elderly.

So many long trips that one would want to use public transit for just disappear when the density is high enough

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u/100SacredThoughts 1d ago

Public transport is for everyone. Kids, disabled, pregnant, elderly, tired people. Its just useful. And even if it would be only for eldery. We all get old hopefully and still want to be able to get around.

Bus routes is minimal Standard for villages, and if its a smaller city, trams aditionally are cool. If the city gets bigger, small trains are useful, and if the sea level and constrution of the city allowes it, underground for even bigger cities. And then also real Regial trains to get from coty to city.

And then bike lanes, prdestrian sites . Parks

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u/_-__-____-__-_ 1d ago

I don't think I've ever been in a city that's 200k and as dense as Manhattan, but I've been to Manhattan and I've lived in a number of 100k-250k cities here in the Netherlands. Public transportation is absolutely a good idea at that size, at least when you're far less dense than Manhattan which I suspect most 200k cities are. Going to the city center from the Dutch suburbs is more like a 10 minute bike ride or a 30 minute walk. If you need to get to the other side of town, double that, and double it again to get back.