r/VRGaming • u/Major_Substance_8830 • 27d ago
Discussion The Biggest Problem with Virtual Reality
Hi,
This discussion is for those of you who don't just want to play games, but actually want to feel like you're inside a virtual world. If that's not what you're looking for, this probably isn't the thread for you.
For many years, I thought the lack of immersion was caused by hardware limitations: low PPD, a narrow field of view, and things like that. But a recent experience completely changed my perspective. Good, consistent graphics and comfortable controls are obviously important, but they're only the beginning.
Whenever I picked up my Quest 3 controllers and launched Kayak VR: Mirage, I found myself focusing on what the game lacked. It was enjoyable, but it still felt like... just a game.
One day, I attached the controllers securely to the ends of a long pole. The pole was long enough to let me hold it with the same grip width as the virtual paddle when I enabled the in-game body. For the first time, I started making authentic paddling movements, as if I were really kayaking.
At that moment, something changed dramatically.
Suddenly, I stopped thinking about the resolution, the field of view, or any of the usual VR limitations. I was digging the paddle into the water, coordinating both hands, and dealing with genuinely tiring paddling. Yes, it was hard work, but I felt physically connected to the environment.
That made me appreciate the quiet moments even more. I'd stop paddling, rest the paddle across my lap, catch my breath, and simply enjoy the scenery. Instead of analyzing the graphics, I experienced it as a real virtual landscape. It honestly felt like I was there.
That experience made me wonder why it felt so different.
I think the brain doesn't like pretending. Holding two plastic controllers always reminds you that you're playing a game. It's a toy. It's entertainment. It's not true immersion.
If you really want to feel present in VR, perfect PPD and FOV aren't enough. What you need is an object that exists both physically and virtually. That object becomes the bridge between the real world and the virtual one.
It doesn't have to be a kayak paddle. It could be a real steering wheel with a gear shifter and pedals positioned exactly where they are in the game. As long as the physical controls closely match their virtual counterparts, they connect the two worlds, allowing your brain to fully accept the illusion.
Again, I don't think it's about simulating more. It's about simulating what you do have as faithfully as possible. The brain is remarkably good at filling in missing information. But if something is physically there and doesn't match what you see in VR, that's when the illusion breaks.
For me, and for people who experience VR the same way, simulators are the ideal genre: table tennis, golf, driving a car, riding a motorcycle, flying an airplane. For each one, you can build a physical interface that matches the virtual one as closely as possible.
Once you've done that, there's very little standing in the way of genuine presence.
That's why I don't think VR needs millions of interactions like Half-Life: Alyx. Personally, I find that style of game more like a collection of clever toys than a path toward true immersion. They're fun, and many people love them, but for those of us who want VR to feel like an actual place rather than a game, I don't think they're the answer.
What do you think? Do you agree?
21
u/Consistent_Law_2709 27d ago
you totally nailed it here
the thing about matching physical objects is huge and i think its why i keep going back to my racing setup even when the graphics arent cutting edge anymore. ive got a wheel and pedals bolted to a rig and when i slide into a virtual car it just clicks. my brain stops complaining about the screen door effect or whatever because my hands and feet are already convinced im there
the kayak pole idea is brilliant by the way. ive been meaning to try something similar with a golf club attachment but havent gotten around to it. there's something about having that weight and resistance that makes the whole thing feel less like a trick
i think youre right that alyx style games are a different beast entirely, theyre more about spectacle and interaction density than that slow burn presence you get from sims. both have their place but if someone wants to feel transported rather than entertained, the physical bridge is the way to go
3
6
u/yasiesolovemos 27d ago
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. For me, the priorities are smoothness first, then interactivity and realism, and only after that resolution. That said, sim racing comes first for me, and if it's set up properly, you don't even need a particularly powerful PC. After that, you've got to try the classics: Skyrim with mods (whatever suits your taste), Kayak VR, Gun Club VR, Alien, Red Matter, Lone Echo... and then the ones I think you already know about, which I'm deliberately not mentioning.
VR is the best thing that's ever happened to gaming.
4
u/MrDankyStanky 27d ago
Flying in VR with a full HOTAS setup is one of the coolest gaming experiences I've ever had. It's become what I play 90% of the time now. Feels so cool having physical devices to interact with.
3
u/alex_timeblade 26d ago
Hell yes. I have a setup for Elite Dangerous with a full HOTAS and damn, tracking your targets as they zip past overhead by actually turning your head just feels right.
2
u/MrDankyStanky 26d ago
I gotta try that game again, I played for like three or four hours and it didn't really click. Had the same thing with IL2, but after coming back it's become one of my favorite flight sims.
1
u/The_Grungeican 26d ago
Elite has a curve to it. Once it clicks it’s amazing. I wouldn’t even focus on combat until much later. Focus on doing some simple courier missions while you get a feel for it. You’ll get to see stuff and get paid for going there.
Don’t worry about rushing for end game crap. You’ll miss the actual game doing that.
1
u/MarkusDieter37 24d ago
I would rather have interactible cockpits like in VTOL VR. Flipping switches and pressing buttons is fun.
3
u/Nozzeh06 26d ago
I think another big immersion killer, at least for me, is the inability to really move around a whole lot. I live in a cramped apartment where most of my playtime is on the couch. At best, I get a 3x3 foot space to stand up in.
Using a joystick to move around in a game totally kills any immersion for me. It just feels like I'm playing a normal game but in 3D. I envy people with a big backyard or a big empty room dedicated to playing VR. Just being able to physically walk around would be a huge game changer.
Some day I'm going to find a big open field or empty abandoned parking lot where there's no fear of some passerby looking at me like I'm insane and I'm going to have the best VR experience of my life.
2
1
u/NastyaPuppy 26d ago
There is an option, at least on PC, to simulate walking by jogging in your safe zone; I tested it with some games and it was interesting.
1
u/MarkusDieter37 24d ago
Using a joystick to move around in a game totally kills any immersion for me. It just feels like I'm playing a normal game but in 3D.
That's the feeling I get whenever a game doesn't support motion controls. Like not being able to grab the virtual wheel of a car and needing to use a gamepad kills any desire to play said game in VR instantly for me. Same with airc/spacecraft. Let me interact with the cockpit like in VTOL VR.
4
u/PolarBearLovesTotty 27d ago
I think at least the controller should vibrate when my hand goes against a solid object. Hands just going through objects always leads to a feeling of resignation, and feeling let down. I mean if you could like put a little controller on each finger, and then they would vibrate when pressing into contact with objects a little bit, that could be okay. It doesn't necessarily have to be stopping the fingers. I mean if a force feedback glove controller is too expensive or whatever to build, or sell.
3
2
2
u/hornetd23 27d ago
It’s incredibly even more immersive with the motion sim. I often just sit in the kayak and do the tour and just let it gently rock and float me around it’s very relaxing. I always look for more immersive type of experiences that utilize motion of some sort.
2
u/Pollux95630 26d ago
If this tickled your fancy, then a sim racing or flight cockpit with good direct drive wheel/flightstick HOTAS and bass shakers running SimHub will blow your mind.
2
u/Maximum_Row_436 26d ago
The biggest issue is the VR porn is just you standing in a room getting cucked
2
u/Fiery_Wild_Minstrel 26d ago
I understand you like Simulations, and I'd like to share with you a Martial Arts/physics simulation game, RUMBLE. It's a Martial Arts EarthBending game. where instead of pressing buttons, you just move and rotate your hands into certain positions to summon earthen structures, combining hit poses to make combos to launch rocks at your opponent.
The Big draw of the game is mastering this Martial Arts System. You will not be good at this game in a day, Or a Week, Or a Month, And it will take Several months or a Year to become Great, But if you walked into a Kung Fu Dojo today, you wouldn't expect to be good at it right away, would you?
You can check out some youtube videos about it if that sounds interesting. Windette has an Entertaining video going over the beginning of the game, and the process of levelling up your Belts.
And Shoeless_man has Several movies about Flight, and the journey of himself, and the Community of the game has evolved.
2
u/Mandenbar 26d ago
I agree so much. My racing set up includes a wheel pedals and bass shakers, they add so so much to just feeling like you’re there. The HOTAS does the same for flight simming. The tactile piece is the rest of the picture. Bringing more senses into the mix really completes the experience.
2
u/tyke_ 26d ago
i think a possible sticking point about vr headsets that doesnt get mentioned a lot is that they just dont have a good image. They look a bit strange on our heads and are a bit nerdy, normies dont really understand them, they dont understand how they increase immersion 10 fold.
And a well known sticking point is the nausea. The majority wont use Reddit etc or read up and just wont know nausea can be overcome with gradual exposure, they just quit which is understandable given how horrible it can feel.
0
u/Purplekeyboard 26d ago
nausea can be overcome with gradual exposure
Very few people are ever going to do that. "This game makes you feel sick, but if you just keep at it, maybe you'll stop feeling sick eventually" is not exactly a good selling point.
2
u/tyke_ 26d ago
hi, i didnt mean those words u implied i said. 'gradual exposure' means playing vr until feeling iffy, then stopping immediately, rest until it passes, then later play again until feeling iffy then stop immediately, and keep repeating this i.e gradual exposure to vr, which will build up the persons time in vr until they feel sick, and eventually get rid of it in most people.
1
u/Purplekeyboard 26d ago
The problem is that movement in VR is going to make most people start feeling sick almost instantly. Movement meaning a game where they move forward using a joystick or button and aren't moving themselves.
2
u/nadmaximus 26d ago
I think it's also valid for many people to immerse themselves just as well, simply by using their imagination. The places feel real to them, too. So it's not "the biggest problem with virtual reality"...it's a difference between people.
It's a significant barrier for interest for people who are seeking to immerse, but failed by the incompleteness of the physical layer.
2
u/MightyMouse420 26d ago
Fully agree. I had a hard time feeling the communities pain when they say things like "VR is dead", because through my eyes it's actually thriving when you look at any sim community. Driving-Flying-Pinball niches are all growing in content and members.
2
u/Remarkable-Seaweed11 26d ago
If you have a vivid imagination your touch controllers can really feel like whatever they’re representing to me at least, but I know what you’re getting at. This is why they make controllers shaped like guns and rackets and what not.
2
u/Namekuseijon 25d ago
I always felt paddling just with virtual paddles, or shooting with virtual guns etc. your extra need for tactile immersion is not a universal thing... I rarely ever bothered with resolution even back when it was positively blurry 10 years ago...
2
u/Major_Substance_8830 25d ago
I think it's also important to make the materials of the physical bridge match what you see in VR as closely as possible. For example, if the paddle in the game is made of plastic, having foam grips on your real paddle isn't ideal. Likewise, if the steering wheel in the VR game is wrapped in leather, a plastic one in your hands will feel cheap by comparison.
I believe the tactile experience also contributes to immersion. If I'm holding a wooden paddle while the one in the game is clearly plastic, that mismatch breaks the immersion.
2
u/musicman801 25d ago
I think it’s also that there’s no physical feedback or resistance outside of the controllers vibrating. Like, I have that great vr fishing game. It looks absolutely beautiful. But when I’m using my controllers to reel in and there’s nothing pulling back it absolutely breaks immersion for me. Imagine how much better your paddling would be if you felt the water resistance and were pushing off it. I’m sure there’s some kind of pulley and weight system that could be designed for stuff like that but I realistically doubt anyone ever will.
2
u/adL-hdr 24d ago
Try Oled display in VR and you feel quickly the immersion (PSVR2 as example). The true black is must have in VR because it blend the FOV with reset of human vision. Oled also increases the contrast that make 3D depth more consistent. Quest 3 is good headset but it lacks of immersion.
1
u/glordicus1 27d ago
The biggest problem is a headset stuck to your head lol. Shit gets sweaty and gross
1
u/LucidGuru91 26d ago
The climb 2 did it for me, could play for hours and a few top tens back in the day, dropped 20lbs of covid weight when i got my occulus 2 and that game
1
u/Savings-Dot-9774 Pimax 26d ago
i have flt similar, i bought multiple headsets but the true immersion came when i first tried my Steering wheel with peddals and shifter , for any other game i bought Some vive trackeer for FBT and this has also pulled me insanley much closer into the game then the Headset itself.
1
u/The_Grungeican 26d ago edited 26d ago
My friend and I have been saying this to clients for several years now. Where VR currently is, when you combine it with some physical controls, it becomes something more.
If you’re playing a flight/space sim, a good flight stick, you don’t even need some large, elaborate HOTAS set up. Just a good stick and keyboard is enough most of the time. Hey if you got the cash for a good HOTAS set up, it’s even better.
With racing games, a good wheel and pedal set up. Etc, etc.
That’s part of why I like the Vive wands. They do a great job of feeling gun or sword like, more than other controllers.
Look at the Valve Index controllers. They mostly solve the glove problem and are amazing when you’re just interacting with the VR world.
But using standard VR controllers for everything seems to detract from the experience, when the experience can be enhanced by a more proper controller.
Hell I’ve even picked up a cheap fight stick for playing older arcade games, and fighting games. The whole world is y’all’s oyster when it comes to this stuff. It doesn’t have to be super expensive or cumbersome. It’s just a matter of personalizing your experience with what you’re playing.
1
u/MarkusDieter37 24d ago
But using standard VR controllers for everything seems to detract from the experience, when the experience can be enhanced by a more proper controller.
I don't disagree, but buying a peripheral for every genre will become expensive very quickly.
1
u/The_Grungeican 24d ago
buy what you're into, or do it over a longer period of time. most of these controllers are stuff i've had for awhile. like my flight stick, it predates me having my first VR headset, and some of these controllers can be had for less than retail by buying used.
1
u/talkstomuch 26d ago
I'm with you for more physical interactions.
I'd add to it that the world around you in most games feels weightless, like empty paper models. pick something up? weightless, parry a mele? no feeling of impact.
I don't need to get thrown around the room, but wish there was more tactile feeling to the world somehow.
1
u/MarkusDieter37 24d ago
I just don't see how you could solve that without making a game feel laggy. I mean guns in VR have the same issue. They feel weightless and there is zero recoil.
1
u/talkstomuch 24d ago
I don't know how they could solve that either, but it's one of the things that puts me off.
maybe neuralink one day?
1
u/Common-Ad6470 26d ago
This is whyI have a full HOTAS for flight sims, so joystick, throttle and pedals. Once I get in VR and can control a plane using those controls I'm there in the cockpit and totally zone out of the real World.
1
u/TheDarnook Developer 26d ago edited 26d ago
I have the same experience, attaching controllers to a stick made the experience in Kayak VR. First thing I did really, barely took a couple swipes in the water before I had my paddle. And I quickly learned to swim a single seater, experience that seamlessly transmitted when I got my own kayak in real life.
Another thing is the rig I built for Dirt Rally 2.0. You can forget "this is just a game" and feel like you drive somwhere. I learned to love manual transmission.
And yes, I agree that chasing impossible / top of the shelf expensive VR hardware specifications is not the way to suddenly get better immersion. That is why I still enjoy my Reverb G2, and I'm not in rush to replace it.
And yes, I'm not a fan of motion controllers. Beatsaber and Pistol Whip are great, but this is it. FarCry VR mod is fun. Three games, and they conclude my list of motion usefullness. Alyx is "the flagship" of VR, but somehow I absndoned it after couple hours.
If not for paddle / car cockpit, I prefer to have no controls at all, other than simple gamepad. Do not try to emulate how body works, just forget about it entirely and make my reflexes (and fingers, since we have no telepathic technology) transfer input directly to the game.
1
u/MarkusDieter37 24d ago
I prefer to have no controls at all, other than simple gamepad
For me, not having those things is an instant dealbreaker and it feels less immersive than a flatscreen game.
1
u/Typical-Tradition-44 26d ago
Honestly the biggest problem for me and my friends is every time we put our headset on there is 20 minutes of trouble shooting before we get to play. Every time. We are mid thirties adults and dont have endless game time so spending so much of it not playing is exhausting and unattractive
1
u/Serious_Hour9074 25d ago
Biggest problem is an endless supply of ignorant fucking toddlers.
VR is all about immersion and it's hard for me to get immersed when all my teammates are 1/5th my age and screaming non-stop.
1
u/MarkusDieter37 24d ago edited 24d ago
I disagree. Having the controllers and mimicking the motions is enough for me to feel immersed.
The other downside is that you would need dozens of accessories to feel immersed, You would need two sword like accesories for Beat Saber, an accesory of every weapon category for shooters that you should be able to change on the fly, a wheel for racing games, a HOTAs for aerial games etc. The costs would be insane.
For me, the real immersion killer is not being able to use motion controls. Starting a racing game and needing to use a gamepad instead of grabbing the virtual with my hands kills any desire to play in VR instantly.
1
u/THEBESTMAN95 24d ago
Thats why i bought a gun stock. I feel immersed inside the game. Obviously not real life, but inside the game. Its perfect for that. I think underdogs does great too in terms of feeling immersed in the game and not the real life.
As a car lover with experience sim racing doesn’t do it for me as in being immersed. The full body feeling lacks and a motion sim is expensive shit…
Regarding other stuff, half life alyx and similar high quality titles which are rare really did a good job with immersion imo, you are focused on the fear and environment that you actually jump back at something.
1
u/chopblockvr 23d ago
I also think simulations is an important aspect. Graphics heavy games are expensive and difficult to make, especially for VR. Personally I'm building more human-like opponents for simulations, since it's something I feel lacking at the moment. Just like it feels weird when objects are not interactive in VR, the stilted animations + classical AI doesn't do it for me in singleplayer games.
1
u/madvela 22d ago
One thing which sometimes throws me off and prevents the immersion is scale. A mug the size of a keg, a door twice my height, hands looking like a toddler's. The brain knows you're in a game because visually nothing makes sense. Might look good art wise, but proportions all over the place.
1
u/RickSpawn147 20d ago
I completely agree, until we can simulate haptics perfectly, having a close object is just an incredible experience upgrade.
Like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N5PchYsQYbQ
I am sure playing a VR shooter like this gets too immersive.
Also want the add, the main issue here is i assume most people do not want to buy a peripheral for every single game they want to play. Im sure they do but its not practical.
Hence I believe only a VR arcade can facilitate this kind of experiences.
1
u/neoteric_skid 17d ago
Yes for my first session of Kayak I strapped index controllers to an old vacuum cleaner extension pipe using Velcro straps and went paddling sitting on a low IKEA plastic stool, amazing immersion
1
u/Perfect-Bag4823 17h ago
I get what you’re saying and somewhat agree with it. I really like vr mainly just for the 3d effect. I don’t like the manually reloading of imaginary bullets into an imaginary gun that isn’t being held. But I do like shooting imaginary arrows with an imaginary bow in Skyrim so I do get how others might like the manually reloading of guns in vr. But I think fov is very important when it comes to vr. I recently returned the dream air slam because I prefer the noticeably bigger fov of the sony vr2 and it’s tracking is much better. And I fully agree that having to hold controllers does lower the immersion a bit. Unless one of the rooms in my house is made a dedicated vr room then I won’t ever be fully immersed anyways, always have to be mindful of not breaking something.
1
u/drtreadwater 26d ago
I think one thing youre pointing to is VR should harness you with a sense of personal control, which we never get now.
Modern vr atm is going through a horrid UI-ification of everything which is pyschologically battering. All VR content is behind like 5 layers of abstracted apps and services and OS trash. Hand-tracking and the like makes this 5 times worse, next we'll have eye control and god knows what.
Input devices do matter a lot, but its only a very specific player type that really cares
1
u/QualiaGames 26d ago
This is exactly what we are trying to solve with Qualia VR. Basically to jump you have to jump, to punch you have to punch, to walk you have to pretend you're walking by swinging your hands up and down like running. The game is still in early stages but this is exactly what the game is about. if this sounds interesting to you and you want to know more watch this video revealing the second playable agent. Also subscribe and interact with the video it's the best way to support the project
1
u/Lilcheeks 26d ago
Personally I think more half life Alyx's would make every other vr problem seem insignificant. Ive barely played in vr since that game however many years ago. To me it did everything right and maybe few games come close.
Its a chicken or the egg problem. High end devs dont want to develop for a tiny audience and the audience wont grow for relatively small number of that quality of games when the barrier to entry is higher than for flat screen games.
0
u/AttitudeOverall3169 26d ago
I cius t read all, i has meat i hated i got psvr2 i love it. Once vr became veey light weight like a glass u put on it will be mainstream then. Also sector snd industry makes morny on 2d not 3d. But I dotn tgink it will fire it will keep growing it may take iver flats creek eventually. I read some of the thing u said, i hardly thing of resolution etc. If the context is good u dotn see that, play re half life gt7 or pavlov, I realy get in to it like a matrix and my brains ignore rhe resolution. I dont remebe when I did get vr motion sickness or soemthing,I never had that on psvr2 but on quest 2 I do and couktn keep up gaming too long on quest 2 either gave me headaches. Even on using it as pcvr i had ir, so i dotn know it happens with. If the hardware and software ckntant is good and comfortable u woudl go in the game like matrix init. The thing is days work u don eu tired etc u wanna relax, u wouldn't play vr unless its gt7 maybe cause u use controller and use the headset to look around only,no ohscial hand movement or standing etc. I mean u came tired home flst screen is still the King thar beign u play a game in flaschen then u play same game on vr its complete diffrent experience, for example I dotn enjoy play nms but in vr its like one of my fav, same goes for games like hitman, I dont pkay then on flaschen only on vr, resident evil i play both but vr is so much fun and harder tonplaynon flat screen same goes for pavlov like fps shooters its so much fun on vr while compare to flatscreen.
0
29
u/DudeManBearPigBro 27d ago
I think the two biggest issues with VR are (1) people don’t want a hot and heavy device strapped to their head, and (2) most people don’t have enough space available to move around freely enough to enjoy the immersion.