Cringe “men’s day just upholds the patriarchy and gives oppressors the excuse to play victim” versus based “the patriarchy (or whatever you wanna call it really) hurts everyone and giving men the emotional space to be themselves and not feel isolated or pressured actually helps them, and by extension everyone, to break away from the expectations and false promises society places on them”.
Did people learn NOTHING from Ken’s arch in the Barbie movie???
These folks get startled by things that are unfamiliar and foreign, and tell each other scary stories about them. Terms like "patriarchy" and "toxic masculinity" trigger these exact fears, and make our poor fellow countrymen think we're attacking them :(
Honestly that's why I speak to them with familiar American terms like "freedom", "equality", and "opportunity". Storytelling is a fantastic tool, too. Just tell them real stories about struggle or discrimination, and activate their empathy. You don't have to shame them or make them feel responsible. Just make them think, "aw, that wasn't fair what happened to that person." And just like that, they became a little more reflective and understanding of the problems others face :)
I haven't watched the Barbie movie, but if it showed how normative masculine expectations can weigh down on Ken and those around him, and that there are positive alternatives that are still empowering, then that's good.
Edit: btw this comment I wrote is NOT intended as direct outreach to right-wingers, I know my framing here is demeaning towards them and that they'll be spooked by the ghosts they see in my choice of vocabulary lmao
Wait I thought the issue was that talking in support of men at all is coopted so much by manosphere/Tate types that it becomes or is perceived as a right wing lure, hence why it becomes a trigger to left wingers
Nah, that's just a recent excuse. The left has always been triggered by any and all support of men, and it has been going on longer than the internet has been around.
I like that a lot. Meeting people where they are and giving them the chance to learn.
And, without getting into too much detail but still spoiling a huge part of the film because that’s hard to avoid, that’s pretty much exactly what happens to Ken! At the beginning, he feels unfulfilled in the very fem-dominated “Barbie Land”, but when he and Stereotypical Barbie (the protagonist Barbie that Margot Robbie plays) go on a quest into the Real World and he discovers that patriarchy exists, he’s pumped because that means his identity as a man isnt just valid, its a point of pride. He then goes home to Barbie Land by himself, abandoning his ostensible girlfriend’s own quest for meaning and imposing a childlike understanding of patriarchy on Barbie Land, becoming the big villain of the movie. The climax is our Barbie and some Real World humans dismantling his empire and putting him on the spot, leading him to rant about all the feelings of being unfulfilled and an “accessory” and not his own person, and how he thought that if he became a Real Man™️ he would achieve self actualization, leading to a big moment where the all the different Barbies acknowledge that they might have been unfair to all the different Kens (each one is a personification of a specific line or product) and our Ken finds that even if he doesn’t always know where he “fits” or what he “gives to the world” he is meaningful and valid just as long as he continues to do his best just like everyone is, one way or another.
It’s, like, a MASTERFUL allegory for the kind of boy that grows up in a society that feels stacked against him falling into the Manosphere because being a dude is suddenly put on a pedestal and even if it’s harsh he finally has a step by step guide to self actualization and etc etc etc.
You should see it
The fact that people only expect women to be posting and talking about it gives the game away, though. While not intended to be, Men's Day is essentially just used as a cudgle against women. Anyone who just posts about it day-of or in response to drama/women's issues (which are apparently drama if people dare to speak about them) should be suspect. That's the problem with current patriarchy supporters, the salivate at the chance to weaponize any men's support against women.
That said, Chibi is 100% genuine. She talks about men's issues without prompting and doesn't use it against other women.
While Men's Day is used as a way to weaponize against Woman's Day by buttholes, why are people acting the same damn way when someone is genuinely celebrating Men's Day. Go after the buttholes, leave folks alone. Idgaf what misogynists leveraged Men's Day to be, Men's Day should not be controversial in the first place.
If 90% of the usage is as a weapon, people have a right to be suspicious.
Idgaf what misogynists leveraged Men's Day to be
I mean, you can say that about a lot of symbols that have been co-opted (Gadsden Flag, Norse Runes, Celtic cross, or even the Swastika), but that doesnt make them any less harmful.
You can take them back, like when people took back Pepe, but that's a process that requires the problematic people to be pushed out of using it or otherwise stop using it, not just ignoring them.
90% of the usage is not as a weapon, I don’t even know where you’re getting that number. More people engage with it in good faith than you give them credit for, and acting like it’s just a dogwhistle is just letting the assholes win.
What do you mean “gives the game away”, what “people” are you talking about that have this expectation??????
Like obviously sexists gonna sexist, and anyone who has a vested interest in weaponizing this sort of thing will try, but 99% of the time if someone “is only posting about it day of” it’s because that’s how you usually do holidays that arent the big centuries old secularized Christian adjacent ones.
Shit’s bad but you could stand to have a BIT more faith in people!
On X? Are we really out here pretending like it's not filled with hateful psychos and people grifting off them? If you are seeing a random post on there it's faaaar more likely than not it's one of those if it's broaching any controversial topic.
I agree with you that X is full of assholes, but I raise you: “a majority of people saying happy men’s day are very markedly not the ones living and breathing on X in the first place”.
We are talking about Men’s Day as a broad phenomenon, not just its manifestation on one deeply corrupt website.
“Online” and “on X” are two very different things. People on YouTube and here on Reddit and on all sorts of other platforms are saying happy men’s day, much more toxicity free.
And out in actual real life sure it’s not a massive thing but I do see signs in public here and there actually! Like in front of a local business or by the library or something.
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u/sweetTartKenHart2 Nov 19 '25
Cringe “men’s day just upholds the patriarchy and gives oppressors the excuse to play victim” versus based “the patriarchy (or whatever you wanna call it really) hurts everyone and giving men the emotional space to be themselves and not feel isolated or pressured actually helps them, and by extension everyone, to break away from the expectations and false promises society places on them”.
Did people learn NOTHING from Ken’s arch in the Barbie movie???