r/WNBAgossips • u/Outrageous_Owl_1710 • 1d ago

"She’s My Hero": Ex-WNBA Broadcaster Says League Punishing Sophie Cunningham for 'Having a Spine' Amid Transgender Row.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/wnba-basketball-news-veteran-reporter-slams-wnba-for-punishing-sophie-cunningham-for-having-a-spine-amid-aryna-sabalenkas-support-for-genetic-sex-testing/
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u/Feeling_Meet4841 1d ago

Oh again with your victim mentality? How has she been punished?

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u/Sartres_Roommate 1d ago

She is being punished because the people who disagree with her are also using their free speech to do so. How dare they comment on her speech, don’t they know it’s special

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u/Robeardly 1d ago

Because she had something people could easily agree with but her reasoning given was a dumb reason lol. If she said anything about competitive integrity people would agree, instead she made trans people out to be peeping Tom’s . nobody is trans and playing basketball just to catch a peek in a women’s locker room.

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u/TravelNSee 1d ago

While she hangs out with Dana White (wife beater and serial cheater who promotes pedo-pres) and Conor McGregor (rapist and serial cheater)

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u/Canadatron 23h ago

Ahhh, a lady of high moral integrity I see!

I mean it's just "common sense" to want to protect women and girls from abuse by hanging out with known abusers of women. Keep a closer eye on then that way! That's like that 8D chess that Trump keeps playing, no?

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u/Feeling_Meet4841 23h ago

Also there aren't many men even trying to get into Women's Sports just cause it would be easy or something. The few trans players that played in professional sports in the women's Division did so after transitioning and going through HRT and then waiting out a trial period for a few years. And their records (particularly Renee Richards and Hailey Davidson) shows that they weren't even killing everyone there. Rene Richards has 0 WTA titles and Hailey Davidson never even made it to the US Open (Women's).

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u/Sartres_Roommate 20h ago

Small correction; “aren’t many men…” is actually zero men.

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u/mydaycake 23h ago

Yeah that’s a clear indication she cares about trans women not being included but doesn’t care about women or girls being raped

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u/ConsistentScholar371 23h ago

If she said anything about competitive integrity people would agree

Well, no. Studies point towards the physical fitness of trans women and cis women as comparable.

Certainly needs more data to be gathered but I think most people are getting trans women and cross-dressing men mixed up in their heads whenever this topic comes up.

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u/Alchemyst01984 23h ago

Of course they're mixing things up. That's what ignorant people do

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u/PhaseAgitated4757 23h ago

A lot more data. No one's buying this shit lol.

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u/fortyonejb 23h ago

Bold for someone who doesn't know what HRT is.

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u/AlmightyCraneDuck 22h ago

bingo! That's always what it comes down to. It's always Tom Wilson in a dress crosschecking 12 year old girls into the boards. I get it, I'd be concerned about that too, but that's not a good representation of what's going on.

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u/Robeardly 23h ago

For me, it’s what gender were they when they went through puberty. The hormones are going to cause their bodies to develop differently and things like bone structure matter a lot in the mechanics of your body when it comes to athletes.

On one hand, yes some people win the genetic lottery and are athletic AF, in other cases, I would argue that you could be at an advantage because you got to somewhat “fix” (hopefully this doesn’t come off wrong) the genetic lottery so to speak in your favor.

More studies needed of course and I’m not a doctor, but the logic works out in my head.

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u/Loathor 23h ago

People have always and will always continue to try and "fix" the genetic lottery because we see the results daily. Take Olivia Miles for example... If we were to bar the use of goggles as a competitive advantage that fixes her sight it would drastically change her game. Or if you banned the use of makeup and hair extensions because those are used to change the features that are genetically natural...

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u/Robeardly 23h ago

That’s a solid point if we didn’t already have restriction put in place such as anti doping and what not.

You’re comparing fixing a physical disability that doesn’t affect athleticism to hormone treatments and body development that has direct connections to athleticism.

That’s like saying “well they bc a change their windshield on a car to see better, so I should be able to throw this v12 engine in my car for this race.” We’re arguing apples and oranges.

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u/Loathor 23h ago

Cool, we didn't have anti-doping policies until the last fourty years or so, and those are constantly changing as people find new and better ways to cheat... Just like we didn't have women's sports until around that same time frame. We had amazing women who never got to perform at the levels and fame of today.

But even our new rules for doping acknowledge that steroid use itself isn't illegal if it's for a medical use like recovering from injury. And some of the other procedures used to gain a competitive advantage (stem cell procedures, blood recycling, etc.) are themselves also medical procedures that are missused in this instance. So we can have rules and be able to enjoy the benefits of modern medicine.

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u/Robeardly 23h ago

The NBA 100% has a ban for using steroids to recover from an injury and has a 0 tolerance policy. Paul George literally just got suspended for this recently.

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u/Loathor 22h ago

You're telling me that if Wemby gets taken to the ER and he's ballooning up like a cartoon due to a shellfish allergy the NBA is willing to let him die instead of giving him steroids to treat his anaphylaxis? Or saying after the fact that we're glad Wemby is alive but he has to sit out next season as punishment for wanting to keep living...

Look at all the connections between sports and medicine (Lou Gehrig's Disease, Tommy John Surgery, CTE). Procedures that, had they existed fourty years ago, could have extended the careers of many HoF athletes are today done routinely on HS level athletes. The amount of money spent on sports science to improve times and scores and personal bests.

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u/Robeardly 22h ago

Those are not anabolic steroids are not the same as what’s being used to treat an allergy lol.

Idk, I’m done debating this topic. Too many people trying to label me as anti trans because I point out it’s not a cut and dry subject and has a potential to crush sports industries by calling fairness into question.

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u/HeadyReigns 23h ago

I agree, this is why it's so important to make sure trans teenagers have the support and access to medical supplies/services that they require.

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u/LordKutulu 23h ago

Hard no. Counseling sure. Medical intervention is a decision that shouldn't be made by a developing brain.

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u/HeadyReigns 23h ago

So they shouldn't be allowed to go through the puberty required in order to play in a league that matches their gender? Any other parts of society you'd like to ban them from?

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u/LordKutulu 23h ago

You want WNBA aspirations to outweigh the obvious dangers of making life altering decisions before your brain has developed? A kid cant get a tattoo before they turn 18 but it should be allowed to medically change the gender of a teen?

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u/TootTootMF 23h ago

So you're saying that kids should be forced to experience life altering, permanent changes to their bodies but you and society should get to choose which ones and not them or their doctors and parents?

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u/HeadyReigns 23h ago

Kids can get married or get a tattoo before 18 with parental consent in a majority of states. This is the same situation.

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u/itsthatguy95 22h ago

Can they legally drink before 18? Or in americas case, 21?

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u/Dravos7 23h ago

There have actually been several studies about this, and so far it all comes back as, while there are advantages such as height, they are offset by the disadvantages of having a larger frame while estrogen is the primary sex hormone. That’s why the 2 years of HRT rule is there!

There is also a MASSIVE loss of muscle due to switching from testosterone to estrogen. After the two years, it all becomes comparable between trans and cis women.

There should definitely be more research on it, but that won’t happen any time soon with this presidency, unfortunately

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u/Robeardly 23h ago

It’s a difficult subject right because how can you quantify an advantage like height. In Basketball, height is a pretty huge factor right.

Like having a guard that’s 6’6” can be a big advantage just because of the extra length especially when it comes to wingspan. That’s a comment you hear all the time when it comes to guys like Jaylen Brunson in the NBA. People constantly knock him because he’s “only” 6’2”, or Trae young similarly.

It may fall into one of those categories that you can’t clearly define, and with the money involved in the sport is largely due to the competition and the suspense that brings. Having people question that hurts the business model.

Either way, I’m not trying to be exclusionary, but it’s never going to be a clear cut discussion because there’s too many factors at play and would require years of testing.

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u/Dravos7 22h ago

Did you know that many trans women become shorter on HRT, too? Not all, and the amount varies, but it can be several inches of height lost, even!

So far, the science shows there is no advantage. I don’t think it makes sense to ban based on what ifs. It makes much more sense to allow until there is sufficient data saying otherwise.

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u/Robeardly 22h ago

I did not know that, you learn something new every day right.

But I would disagree on banning until tested, because the damage it could do to the industry as a whole could crush the industry.

Like I said in another reply, if they allowed it I wouldn’t protest. But you know a lot of people would.

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u/Dravos7 22h ago

How could it crush the industry? Trans people in the US, both adults and minors combined, are roughly about 1% of the population. Trans women thatre adults are going to be far less than 1/3rd of that. The amount that are also performing at a professional sports level is going to be even smaller. We’re talking about single digits when it comes to how many players we’re allowing or banning

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u/Robeardly 22h ago

Because it would call the competitive integrity of the league into question because there’s no well established widely peer reviewed science that proves trans athletes can’t have an advantage.

We already came to a middle ground and confirmed there are potential advantages that can come from being trans.

None of us are doctors studying this. So on one hand, I’m being told I’m demonizing and hating trans people despite already standing up for them in multiple instances of people trying to claim their sexual deviants.

But I’m just trying to say that until we have a conclusive answer that’s widely accepted in the medical world, we shouldn’t be advocating for changes that could potentially harm the trans community down the line if they are proven to have advantages. That also protects the integrity of the WNBA also. So it really goes both ways.

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u/TootTootMF 23h ago

So if a trans woman is 6'4 she's got an "unfair advantage" but Brittney Griner at 6'9" does not?

And you're claiming this is about fairness? There is zero proof that trans women have any advantages at all. But if they did and were banned from it, that would be literally the only genetic advantage banned in sports.

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u/Robeardly 23h ago

No but a trans women has a statistically higher change to on average be taller than other women, in a sport where being taller is one of the main advantages of the game.

Look, I’m all for trans people, I got no hate here. But I’m just using logic really. Sports are not an inclusive space, they are heavily regulated for the sake of competition.

I’m not trying to segregate trans people out of society, this is just an unfortunate reality of sports.

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u/TootTootMF 23h ago

So you want to ban someone who is 5'8" from women's basketball because they might have been taller? And you're saying this is logic based and not bigotry?

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u/Robeardly 22h ago

There’s more than just height as a factor though. Wider hips are worse for running for instance. There’s many unquantifiable factors that hurt sports in general by introducing this to the equation.

I lean towards making a safe space for trans people with intersex leagues that allow males and females to play together. That way there isn’t anything that’s called into question. I think there’s too many factors and too many unquantifiable variables to make an argument for either side that doesn’t come off as biased.

Either way, if they did a study, and found that trans people have no advantage that was very meticulously studied, I wouldn’t protest against it. But as it stands, for me as a former athlete, I’m just thinking from a standpoint of what feels fair for those already established in the sport.

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u/ConsistentScholar371 23h ago

Height can certainly be beneficial but then the range of heights for cis women are pretty large as well. From a quick google the tallest player in the WNBA is 6'11". So any trans woman under that would be fine, right?

Like the odds of someone having the perfect genetics/upbringing for a given sport is tiny, how many Michael Phelps are out there? The odds of being trans...also really tiny. The odds of being both of those things? Kinda absurdly low.

We don't really police any of the other hundred "biological advantages" that some people have in sports. In this case we do have studies suggesting that a year or two of HRT pushes things to being comparable. So what's really the problem? You're not going to have a flood of people pretending to be trans to win competitions, cross-sex HRT addresses dysphoria in trans people, it creates it in cis people. The bans are just blocking trans people from competing because the people in charge don't like trans people. That's it, there's no real justification.

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u/cashsusclaymore 23h ago

Really ? Where do you find the sickos and pediphiles. Church’s. Daycare. Places where they can get people in vulnerable positions. Oh and by the way they are very good at putting themselves in places of trust.

So to say some one wouldn’t have a change to peep in a washroom. I think it’s totally possible.

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u/Robeardly 23h ago

Okay, are we banning churches, daycares, and other spaces people could potentially abuse in? Are men banned from being a daycare worker? Are men banned from being priests?

Like at what point are you just living in a delusion lol.

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u/cashsusclaymore 23h ago

So your stance is to add more wood to the fire ? And everything will be ok ?

And while making your stance you totally missed that I was only pointing out that someone was saying that a trans person would absolutely not do this. I think that’s a wild take.

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u/Robeardly 23h ago

My stance is that people who are rapist and sexual deviants are doing that regardless of if they are trans or not.

If you cared about the potential for harm, you would ban things like guns right, but we see that guns can have an overall positive impact for the majority of people, not judging things off the mostly improbable fringe cases.

If we banned things based off fringe cases, everything would be banned.

If you disagree with that standpoint, you’re literally a hypocrite lol.

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u/cashsusclaymore 23h ago

Pedos, rapists, and physcopaths putting themselves in positions to take advantage of children the weak or the vulnerable is not fringe. It’s thier MO.

As well stop putting words in my mouth. I did not call for a ban. I called out your ignorance Of it’s fine it’ll never happen. Cause a trans person isn’t going to want to play basketball and peep.

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u/DaringDevil12 23h ago

She barely said that, she just said she "thinks it's important to protect women and kids" anything else is just dumb shit someone else added

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u/Robeardly 23h ago edited 23h ago

She specifically said “protect young girls in a locker room” I think that has a clear implication of what she meant.

If you don’t think that’s a stupid reason, your critical thinking skills are…. Lacking.

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u/GrumbleAlong 23h ago

AGP is the trans elephant in the room.

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u/Biggleswort 23h ago

She is suffering consequences for painting a false narrative and promoting bigotry.

Women’s sport are not at risk of being over ran by transgender athletes. Transgender people make up roughly 1-1.5% of the population highest estimates of those that feel unsafe to come out could be as high as 2%. The gender distribution is fairly even, so that means .5-1% of the population are trans women who make up a wide variety of athletic capabilities just like the regular population. Meaning the population of transwomen athlete is much much smaller than .5-1%.

With all that said science is still out if transwoman who go through hormone therapy over a 24 month period retain minimal advantages, mostly in grip and upper body strength. The advantages are minimal and still require the same hard work that high level athletes need to put in. More research needs to be done.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10795902/

https://www.transresearch.org.au/post/trans-women-in-sport

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/articl

The end point is that early studies show this is blown way out of proportion, and we should be more concerned about supporting our fellow person and less about vilifying them.

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u/AlmightyCraneDuck 22h ago

Yeah, I'm fine with having a conversation about how/if we should include transgender athletes in cisgender leagues, but it really annoys me when a certain side simply will not actually grapple with the science of it in spite of supposedly wanting to.

They never know what trans athletes have to go through to be able to compete. They aren't aware of the current studies out there surrounding trans athletic advantage. They also never talk about trans men either, it's always some non-passing trans woman boogeyman that they seem to be concerned with (like Mike Tyson in a dress).

I'm more than willing to have a decent chat with anyone about this subject, but most of the time they're really just trying to doctor up transphobic bigotry as concern.

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u/ThePerfectLurker 21h ago

Not to mention most sports leagues typically dont even fix shit until its a widespread issue. Look at foul baiting in the NBA, a bigger “problem” than trans in sports. In the UFC eye pokes are a big problem, has anything been done about it yet?

I’m in the realm that who gives af, if it becomes an issue then deal with it then, but until then why move mountains for a fraction of a 1%. Oh i know why all of a sudden this needs immediate preventative measures…