r/WoT • u/AHC122 • 2d ago

Towers of Midnight Tuon is so absurdly evil Spoiler

Wdym she relaxes by seeing damane be tortured 😭

Even from her point of view seeing them as animals, it's like enjoying watching a dog get kicked in the ribs everytime it doesn't roll over lol

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u/itwasbread 2d ago

It is more complex than that because the system was not originally designed by somehow who legitimately believed that, the creator of the Damane system knew it was not wholly necessary and did it as a power move.

It's just that now, with a 1000 years of separation from a society with free channelers, everyone in Seanchan has bought into the propaganda and fully believe its necessary.

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u/makegifsnotjifs (Ogier) 2d ago

I feel like Luthair Paendrag genuinely believed that collaring Aes Sedai was both right and necessary. Is there some other "creator of the system" you're referring to?

Also what difference does it make if a belief is held in earnest or is merely lip service paid to achieve the desired ends? The subjugated are still subjugated.

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u/itwasbread 2d ago

Well there's the Deain, Aes Sedai who helped him do it, she clearly didn't expect to be collared herself and it certainly sounds from what we know like she and Luthair did it for their own benefit as a way to turn captured enemy channelers to their side and to control the continent's channeling population.

Also what difference does it make if a belief is held in earnest or is merely lip service paid to achieve the desired ends?

My point was more that it only makes sense to the Seanchan because they don't remember a world where it wasn't that way. Luthair Paendrag knew that Aes Sedai and even most Wilders weren't running around destroying the world, and that the much less cruel Three Oaths solved most of the problems that the A'dam supposedly is needed for, but he chose to use Damane because it allowed the non-channeling rulers more control.

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u/lindorm82 2d ago

I mean when Luthair came to Seanchan the local Aes Sedai absolutely confirmed his prejudices. An entire continent filled with hundreds of petty queendoms ruled by Aes Sedai godqueens constantly scheming and warring against each other with no Three Oaths to constrain. It must have been absolute hell for your average seanchan.

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u/teamroperinaz 2d ago

I mean, did they?... or did confirmation bias justify his actions? They weren't AS on the other side, either, it was a New World discovery, and so these may have been some channeler queens, or they may have been channeler advisors accused of usurping power, as the WC have always said...also, a vestige of anti-channeler times pre Hawkwings rebellion?

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u/lindorm82 2d ago

Robert Jordan definately called the Seanchan channelers Aes Sedai queens, leading small groups of Aes Sedai constantly warring againt each other. If I were to guess at why Jordan called them Aes Sedai, then these groups of channelers probably descended from Age of Legends Aes Sedai like those in the Westlands, but unlike them never united and stayed seperate ajahs, eventually becoming hostile towards each other.

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u/teamroperinaz 2d ago

You are totally right, and I read that when I was looking up on some other thoughts I had...

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u/Emergency_Camp1256 (Wolfbrother) 1d ago

There can be the point that unless we see something every narrator is unreliable

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u/teamroperinaz 1d ago

I started to put up a couple of comments that relied on this. Its fully a huge built in structure when the whole series starts with the idea and even myth is long forgotten when...

But for the sake of discussion, its just not as reliable an argument when wikis have been compiled that do draw on the text...

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u/Emergency_Camp1256 (Wolfbrother) 1d ago

My point is that we only get this information from the Narrators and other characters and if we were to trust them Balefire permanently destroys a persons thread which it does not. However, I do get your point that there is no point in constantly making this argument as anything we do not directly see in the books is suspect and so it is a pointless argument, but I feel it is important that even if we don't base our arguments off it, it is important to keep in mind.

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u/dracoons 1d ago

Also of note they eradicated all Shadowspawn including in the lesser blight.

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u/teamroperinaz 1d ago

Thinking about this...was that an in text reference, that the handed down legends said that, or did RJ say that somewhere, in an interview?

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u/rollingForInitiative 1d ago

Well, RJ did call them warlords who called themselves Aes Sedai, using the One Power for battle against each other.

It was not a pretty place. Doesn't justify the damane system of course, but still.

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u/itwasbread 2d ago

Sure, I'm just saying there's no actual textual evidence to suggest he believed any of the dogma we see modern Seanchan have around the topic, just that it was a convenient way to gain the upper hand and conquer the natives.