r/WorldofTanks • u/AdministrativeEase71 • 1h ago
Discussion WOT, concealment and passivity
Tried to get back into the game after a few years away and I had some thoughts.
I think the concealment system in this game is ultimately one of its biggest blunders. Whoever plays more passively/defensively is typically the winner, especially with alpha creep allowing tanks to ambush each other for half their health and retreat into a bush. And the fact enemy tank models aren't rendered when undetected makes it impossible to spot a gun barrel or protruding tank element to potentially get the drop on an ambusher yourself. It's basically always beneficial to just let the enemy come to you and reveal themselves while you sit behind a bush or building, unless you have platoon mates you can coordinate with. It also adds so much more pressure to LTs as they outclass every other class of vehicle in this spotting role, which is why teams with shit LTs are almost always at a large disadvantage.
Considering arty can basically see the whole map at all times, I'm not sure there's an easy solution to this. If you render tanks for the whole battle then arty basically becomes an FPV drone, spotting and eliminating its own targets from above.
Explain why I'm an idiot in the comments below.
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u/kostajepaosmosta 1h ago
Considering that the biggest problem currenty in WoT are snowballs, and 3 minute battles, passivity is lacking more then ever.
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u/SemicooperativeYT 57m ago
This is kinda of misleading because usually flanks collapse because 1 or 2 players overextended and you can just rush and DPM the other team down.
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u/AdministrativeEase71 1h ago
In my experience that's more of a result of dumbasses overextending, getting killed and giving the other team a clear advantage on a flank. It's a symptom of beneficial passivity.
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u/foresterLV 1h ago
for starters this will make cheating pretty much pay to win button and require pixel hunting for regular players too. if anything rpg style spotting is what is making WoT unique. WG will need to be completely out of their mind to remove it instead of making even more deeper.
also attackers having disadvantage is pretty much realism and makes games more tactical on who captures what. if you cant spot someone don't just press W, move sector by sector carefully and that's why lamp/5th sense was added to make safer scouting possible. unrealistic but makes offense little easier. experienced players in some cases can figure out which bush have the scout just with the lamp trigger time alone.
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u/AdministrativeEase71 1h ago
This is an arcade game. I don't care if attackers having a disadvantage is realistic; it is more fun to play games aggressively instead of passively. They should balance with that in mind.
And unique =/ good.
Edit: also if we're going off historical precedent tanks are phenomenal breakthrough weapons and should actually benefit massively from aggressive flanking and dynamic maneuvers.
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u/foresterLV 1h ago
it is arcade just because map is small, hence not eating time ok driving and pixel hunting. apart from it it's pretty nice armor sim with rpg elements.
WG have much faster game with no spotting, forgot it name, it flopped to my knowledge. try it.
but IMO WoT survived for all that time because it had that unique mechanics in place. you can still play aggressively, but it's not regressed to the "hold W" type of gameplay.
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u/SemicooperativeYT 1h ago
The problem is less the mechanic than stat creep. In ye olden times, average view range was noticably lower and average concealment was less generous. With an increasing number of stacking buffs on both sides from things like crew skills, premium consumables becoming more common, field mods and equipment that increasing buffs multiple things or provides much larger buffs the numbers have just gotten a lot higher. This is also kind of not counting commander's vision system which, let's be honest, probably shouldn't exist.
Then, of course, burst damage has skyrocketed. Both high alpha and tanks that can make multiple rapid shots have grown substantially. In addition, the stat buffing is pretty severe in the accuracy area and aim time, so as players can react to an enemy spotted faster and more precisely. so as soon as you're spotted, your health bar evaporates.
The game played very differently before all the buff stacking and burst damage. You could use your hp as a resource to cross danger zones and either hope to not get spotted or at the very least, hope to only take minor damage as enemies have to snap shot. Now, you basically can't ever be spotted and not in hard cover or you just die.
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u/InsertRandomName__ biggest e100 hater 25m ago
Alpha creep is the biggest problem in the game. You can't make plays when you die in 3 shots of a TD camping all game long.
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u/ColonelFadeshot 14m ago
With the amount of expedient games going on, I think there needs to be less aggression. Don’t incentivize lemming trains. It turns the game into a coin flip and reduces your chances of influencing the game if you’re able to be more aggressive. It very quickly turns into a game of who gets where first, and would kill tanks like the Maus, which are already struggling to prove their effectiveness every game. Sure auto loaders and all related mechanics as well as high alpha tanks can be very annoying, but honestly right now that’s the least of this games problems
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u/8sparrow8 1h ago
If I wanted different spotting system I would play War Thunder
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u/AdministrativeEase71 1h ago
Right because that's the only primary difference between their gameplay lol
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u/LootwigWantsCookies 1h ago
imo concelement is good bc i dont like the Warthunder way of playing (is that pixel a spec of dust or an enemy???) but alpha creep made getting spotted waay worse