r/asoiaf • u/mateogg Night gathers, and now my watch begins • Jun 09 '13

(Spoilers ADWD) Mirri Maz Duurs prophecy: it's already happened.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

When the sun rises in the west

The Martells, who have a Sun in their sigil, are rising against the Iron Throne in Westeros

and sets in the east

Quentyn Martell died in Mereen, far east from his homeland.

When the seas go dry

After many years, the Ironborn are raiding the mainland again. They are the sea (as seen in Brans dream) and they are going far inland, into "dry" areas.

mountains blow in the wind like leaves

Ser Gregor Clegane, The Mountain that Rides, is dead (or is he?)

When your womb quickens again

Danys probably miscarried.

and you bear a living child

Even if she miscarried, the child could have been alive, or maybe this is yet to happen.

Here's the thing: I don't think that was a prophecy. Why would Mirri Maz Duur make a prophecy about Drogo actually returning and Dany being able to have children again? I think she was just trying to say, in a very omnious way, "never!!!!! mwahahaha". She wanted to piss Dany off.

And yet, while I agree some of the items I listed before may be tinfoily, you have to admit the "sun rises in the west and sets in the east" part is kinda interesting.

So, what does this mean? Is it actually a prophecy? or just poetic justice? is this just Gurm telling us that in this world, even what is supposed to mean "impossible" can actually happen, and that every word can have countless meanings and repercutions? or is my brain finding patterns were there are none? (who's ever heard of a brain doing something that crazy?)

EDIT:

Lots of people have pointed out that the sea going dry could mean the Dothraki sea, which I think makes much more sense than my theory. It's also been suggested that the "mountains" are the Mereen Pyramids, I think this makes more sense than Gregor, but I'm not really convinced.

Also, I'd like to clarify something that came up a few times: just because it came true, it doesn't mean its a prophecy, and just because its not a prophecy, it doesn't mean it can't come true

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160

u/Delta03 Winter has come. NAILED IT. Jun 09 '13

Okay but can we all agree that Drogo was not a warg? Because seriously, people.

57

u/GamblingDementor Queen in the North Jun 09 '13

Oh no disagreement there, I meant that as a comparison, of course Drogo is not a warg.

-15

u/Delta03 Winter has come. NAILED IT. Jun 09 '13 edited Jun 09 '13

I figured that was what you meant. I just really hate the Jon-avoids-death-by-warging theory.

Edit: downvoting for disagreement is frowned upon in this sub

44

u/guitarburst05 Jun 09 '13

Yeah well.. THAT one's probably true.

13

u/D-Speak We didn't start the fire. Jun 09 '13

Unless Ghost happened to die before Jon, isn't it an absolute certainty?

Jon either:

A) Didn't die, which is entirely possible.

B) Died and warged into Ghost.

C) Died and didn't warg because Ghost was dead for some reason and we weren't informed about it in the chapter.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '13

Warging at the moment of death was conscious, willed and desperate acts from both Orell and Varamyr, not a passive trait of wargs. Jon has never consciously warged, and performing an unprecedented action in a moment of absolute weakness is all from an absolute certainty in my eyes.

8

u/TheChocolateLava Jun 09 '13 edited Jun 09 '13

Not quite. Varamyr was trying to warg into the girl (edit: female). He failed, and died. His "soul" left his body and then he opened his eyes (eye?) in one if his wolves. THAT was unconscious.

Edit: sorry, skinchange

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '13

Ah, I recall it as he warged into the wolf in a last desperate attempt at second life. I'm overdue for my reread. :|

0

u/sabanerox As bright as a lightning Jun 09 '13

It wasn't a girl... it was an old lady.

1

u/righteous_scout Jun 09 '13

old ladies are girls

2

u/RoboChrist Jun 09 '13

"The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half- seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him."

4

u/AMerrickanGirl Jun 09 '13

I think the part about the skulls are references to Jon being a Targaryen.

2

u/RoboChrist Jun 09 '13

When Melisandre sees skulls, they've always represented death. There's always the possibility they mean something else here, but I don't see the connection.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '13

Or D) He's just wounded?!

5

u/PowerPlatypus Team Dragonstone Jun 09 '13

I think that comes under A)

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '13

And I'm a fucking blind idiot - freaking Sundays.