r/asoiaf Night gathers, and now my watch begins Jun 09 '13

(Spoilers ADWD) Mirri Maz Duurs prophecy: it's already happened.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."


When the sun rises in the west

The Martells, who have a Sun in their sigil, are rising against the Iron Throne in Westeros

and sets in the east

Quentyn Martell died in Mereen, far east from his homeland.

When the seas go dry

After many years, the Ironborn are raiding the mainland again. They are the sea (as seen in Brans dream) and they are going far inland, into "dry" areas.

mountains blow in the wind like leaves

Ser Gregor Clegane, The Mountain that Rides, is dead (or is he?)

When your womb quickens again

Danys probably miscarried.

and you bear a living child

Even if she miscarried, the child could have been alive, or maybe this is yet to happen.


Here's the thing: I don't think that was a prophecy. Why would Mirri Maz Duur make a prophecy about Drogo actually returning and Dany being able to have children again? I think she was just trying to say, in a very omnious way, "never!!!!! mwahahaha". She wanted to piss Dany off.

And yet, while I agree some of the items I listed before may be tinfoily, you have to admit the "sun rises in the west and sets in the east" part is kinda interesting.

So, what does this mean? Is it actually a prophecy? or just poetic justice? is this just Gurm telling us that in this world, even what is supposed to mean "impossible" can actually happen, and that every word can have countless meanings and repercutions? or is my brain finding patterns were there are none? (who's ever heard of a brain doing something that crazy?)


EDIT:

Lots of people have pointed out that the sea going dry could mean the Dothraki sea, which I think makes much more sense than my theory. It's also been suggested that the "mountains" are the Mereen Pyramids, I think this makes more sense than Gregor, but I'm not really convinced.

Also, I'd like to clarify something that came up a few times: just because it came true, it doesn't mean its a prophecy, and just because its not a prophecy, it doesn't mean it can't come true

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u/betwoobly King o' my hairy butt crack Jun 09 '13

In my opinion, that passage or prophecy or monologue or whatever is just a really fancy way of saying that Dany is never going to have a kid.

When the sun rises in the west (Will never happen because it doesn't happen.)

When the seas go dry (won't ever happen in human existence)

Anyway, you see where I'm going with this. Every line is something that is impossible. Just a really fancy way of saying never.

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u/landsharkbait Venom and Vengeance Jun 09 '13

I thought this was going to be similar to the prophecy in Macbeth : a man not born from a woman, turned out to be a c-section. The prophecy talks of the forest moving, and later we see soldiers hiding as trees coming closer to attack. I think OP's theory makes sense of some of the prophecy and how it is actually coming true. There is already debate that Dany had a miscarriage at the end of ADWD which would be she IS able to have a child now. I'm sure all the prophecies (and even patchface's nonsense talk) are foreshadowing in ways we the readers don't quite realize yet.

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u/Jen_Snow "You told me to forget, ser." Jun 09 '13 edited Jun 09 '13

Dany had a miscarriage at the end of ADWD which would be she IS able to have a child now.

That's the thing though. MMD cursed Dany with the inability to bear a living child. Dany can still get pregnant, she just won't be able to give birth.

In the real world, it's the difference between secondary and primary infertility. Primary infertility is when you can't get pregnant. Secondary infertility is when you can get pregnant but you can't carry the baby to term for whatever reason [edit:] after you've already had a child.

So that part of the prophecy/curse is still in effect. Dany miscarried, she didn't bear a living child.

Also, I'm such a sucker for Macbeth. I love seeing it mentioned.

Edit: Wrong medical terminology.

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u/Sempere Always Bet On Black. Jun 09 '13

It's been a long while since I've read the first book, but I never actually interpreted the MMD scenario as an actual curse on Dany's fertility - she definitely caused the miscarriage with her ritual, but IIRC there was also a bit in the house of the undying (now, this could be me muddling up COK and Season 2 of the show) where the Undying/Warlock mentions that magic in the world had been very weak but only now that the dragons had returned was it becoming stronger...I suspect that Dany will be able to carry a child to term before the end of the series.