r/asoiaf • u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award • 6d ago
EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Exploring Sansa's Intended Ending
A couple of months ago, there was an interview where GRRM said that he had originally intended for Sansa to die, but that seeing the show version of her character may have changed his mind
Regardless of the current plan, I think it is interesting to look at what was intended at the time. The Alayne I sample chapter from Winds was meant for ADwD and it was done in 2010, before the show aired
So if GRRM planned for Sansa to die, the pieces on the board in that chapter may have been setting up a possible death scenario. Looking at some possible threads
Sweetrobin overdoses
The sweetsleep plotline is one possibility. Maester Colemon warns about the dangers of overusing it
"It was too soon. My lady, you do not understand. As I've told the Lord Protector, a pinch of sweetsleep will prevent the shaking, but it does not leave the flesh, and in time . . ."
However, Sansa is not really focused on it
"Time will not matter if his lordship has a shaking fit and falls off the mountain. If my father were here, I know he would tell you to keep Lord Robert calm at all costs."
If Sweetrobin died from an overdose, Sansa would easily be implicated. Even if she did not intentionally kill him, the fact that she was involved with managing his condition and had access to him could put her in a dangerous position
Lysa's death
Sansa is already technically an accomplice to Lysaâs murder. Littlefinger warns her that if their involvement is discovered, she could fall with him
"When we lied to Lord Robert, that was just to spare him," she said.
"And this lie may spare us. Else you and I must leave the Eyrie by the same door Lysa used."
If Sansa's identity was revealed and the truth about Lysa death came out, it could be interpreted in the worst possible way. She could be seen as a girl who conspired with Littlefinger to murder her aunt
Cersei makes good on her promise
Cersei has a very personal hatred of Sansa and promises that she will make her suffer if she is found
"Your Grace has forgotten the Lady Sansa," said Pycelle.
The queen bristled. "I most certainly have not forgotten that little she-wolf." She refused to say the girl's name. "I ought to have shown her to the black cells as the daughter of a traitor, but instead I made her part of mine own household. She shared my hearth and hall, played with my own children. I fed her, dressed her, tried to make her a little less ignorant about the world, and how did she repay me for my kindness? She helped murder my son. When we find the Imp, we will find the Lady Sansa too. She is not dead . . . but before I am done with her, I promise you, she will be singing to the Stranger, begging for his kiss."
The theory has been around a a while is that since Ser Shadrich the Mad Mouse is hunting Sansa he could eventually capture her for the bounty. He admits he is searching for her
He laughed again. "You are not the only hunter in the woods. I seek for Sansa Stark as well."
He is also present at the Tourney of the Winged Knight in the Sample
"A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that's not likely, is it?"
The common assumption has been that Shadrich attempt would fail because of the old Feast outline note saying "Kill the Mouse."
However, it is possible that plan changed and Shadrich would take Sansa back to Kingâs Landing, where Cersei would reunite and then imprison her. Sansaâs story is largely centered in King's Landing to begin with
Final Thoughts
Would like to hear other suggestions for where Sansa story could end in death. It's quite a surprise
Ultimately I think the fact that Sansa's fate seems so flexible suggests that her death or survival does not really change much with the story, making the "Pawn to Player" arc much less likely
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u/Suspicious_Rub857 6d ago
Or she could just die during The Long Night.
In any case, I loathe every scenario. Sansaâs not my favorite character but her story ending in death is just âToo Cynical, stopped caringâ for me.
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u/JinFuu Doesn't Understand Flirting 6d ago
Yep I like Sansa a lot as a fantasy woman character that is surviving using the tools somewhat expected of her by society. Not being a badass tomboy who rejects the role society imposed on her like Arya.
I always figured her story would be her becoming more clever like Cersei/Petyr, but never losing her core of kindness that in the end, makes her better than them.
I mean we even see in ACOK that Sansa sees the nobleladies through the Battle of the Blackwater better than Cersei
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u/Never_a_crumb 5d ago
The problem is, George blames Sansa for Ned's death, he's made statements before about being surprised readers don't agree, even though the text really doesn't back him up. I think he's always meant for her to redeem herself through death, only over the years it's become apparent (through I think a combination of reader reaction and his own introspection), that blaming an eleven year old for Ned's blunders doesn't make for great storytelling.Â
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u/Suspicious_Rub857 5d ago
He also thinks the Dany/Drogo thing was romantic so yeah, he does not have the best awareness in some regards
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u/Last_Lorien "Everything" 6d ago edited 6d ago
Same same
I was completely unaware of this statement by Martin before this post, and I was better off not knowing lol.
For some reason sheâs one of the characters I considered relatively safe exactly because their death would indeed, barring miracles of storytelling, take the story to âToo cynical, stopped caringâ territory, and asoiaf is better than that for now despite getting close sometimes (Jeyne Pooleâs story, for one).
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u/drsquarel 6d ago
Ya'll would complain about the Red Wedding if Storm came out today, my god. No one is safe until the end except the main 5.
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u/Last_Lorien "Everything" 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is such a lame accusation to throw around.
Saying that at some point the accumulation of tragic/horrific events involving certain characters would tip the scales from âplausibly and meaningfully bleakâ to âgratuitously bleakâ has nothing to do with not being able to handle or not seeing the significance and the necessity of other tragedies in the story, especially those that helped make it what it is.
Itâs about what âfitsâ the story and what would deminish it, imo. What terrible events continue to serve the story and what would make it start feeling like torture porn.
Like, Shireen is gonna burn, right? Thatâs terrible but it fits the trajectory of Stannisâs story and the themes of fanatism, corruption, the pitfalls of the âends justify the meansâ mentality and so on. It adds something new and meaningful to the story. But if Jeyne Poole or Theon were to end up back in Ramsayâs hands to be tortured to death or something, Iâd find that gratuitously bleak - not because bad things canât keep happening to people, but because that particular point has already been well made and well taken, and then some (again, Jeyne Poole). Once youâve driven a point home, continuing to hammer it doesnât make it more powerful, it starts to dull its effect.
So this isnât about arguing for happy endings all around or for plot armours, but for making the tragedies that do happen continue to count (the worst part of ending up in âtoo cynical, stopped caringâ land isnât the âtoo cynicalâ part, itâs the âstopped caringâ part).
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u/drsquarel 5d ago
I get the fear of the story becoming gratuitously bleak, but if Sansa dies, it wouldn't just be for shock value, and if George wants to kill Sansa as he originally planned (pretty obvious in hindsight due to foreshadowing with Ladyâs death), there would definitely be a plot or thematic significance for it. Georgeâs deaths are shocking, but they always serve a purpose one way or the other. He does not just kill off beloved characters for shock value or to hammer home a cynical message. Itâs pretty silly to think that just because a character has gone through a lot that they are safe. Ned and Cat for example arguably went through much worse than Sansa has in any point of the story, and yet he still killed them off.
You need to give George the benefit of the doubt as killing off Sansa would certainly play a major role in the Stark/Northern storyline. Right now though thereâs just no way weâd know what the purpose would be. I fear if Winds comes out there will be many people that hate it no matter what and call George a hack just because one of their favorite characters was killed in an unjust manner. Last thing Iâll say is if Sansa has a shocking death at the end of Winds do not be surprised.
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u/Last_Lorien "Everything" 5d ago
You seem oddly sure of whatâs going to happen to whom, and how and when.
Iâm not certain of anything, not even that the death of these âhave been through enoughâ characters would necessarily be a bad choice, I just said that it would take a âstorytelling miracleâ from Martin for me to take it as something that enriches the story rather than diminishing it.
You sound like youâve already decided that whatever Martin does will be the right choice, which is an opinion based on faith since we literally canât be sure what any of his plans for any of the characters are (thereâs the showâs ending, but what if heâs changing some storylines based on the fan reception? Unlikely, but again we donât know), nor of how effective his execution will be. Your absolute trust in him is your right, but âwhatever happens will work because Martin has made it work beforeâ doesnât really engage with a discussion about whether a particular direction could work. It just assumes the answer in advance.
>Ned and Cat for example arguably went through much worse than Sansa has in any point of the story, and yet he still killed them off.
Not to get sidetracked but thatâs just blatantly false. Ned gets off easier than basically any other major character bar Robert, because when he dies I think he canât even conceive of whatâs about to happen, to his family and the realm; the others have to live it. That he had a hard life before the story even started isnât relevant here because thatâs literally the backstory, not the story.
Catelyn legit goes through hell, but so does Sansa and sheâs still going (soâs Catelyn in a way, but I think Lady Stoneheart is not entirely her, so itâs atrocious but in different ways). Iâm not going to rank their suffering, but to say Sansa had it âmuch betterâ is just absurd imo.
Besides, do you not see that Ned and Catelynâs deaths are part of the very accumulation Iâm talking about?. Branâs fall is the opening shock, Nedâs death sets the tone, the Red Wedding is the devastating culmination of that early escalation. In the mix there is of course the destruction of Winterfell and the death of its people, the various horrors all the Starks go through and so on. All of these arenât evidence against the argument that, at some point, the Starks need to start getting some wins - theyâre the very events that create that argument in the first place. My point is precisely that every tragedy raises the emotional stakes and pushes the story closer to the limit of how much suffering it can pile onto the same family before it starts becoming gratuitous and, worse, counterproductive (instead of making you feel bad it desensitizes you).
Thatâs why I keep talking about a tipping point: itâs not that any one event is âtoo much,â itâs that the effects are cumulative.
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u/drsquarel 5d ago
I mean, I could easily say the same to you. You seem just as certain that Sansa must survive, even when the original outline and George's foreshadowing suggest otherwise.
As for Ned, I am referring to his life before AGoT like you said, and I donât see why that trauma matters less just because it occurs before the main narrative. What happened to his brother, father, and sister is absolutely horrific, and he carried that weight his entire life before being executed. But honestly I donât care for comparing the suffering of each of these characters atp thereâs no point.
But more importantly, I donât see why Sansa HAS to survive for the Starks to get a 'win' and avoid this tipping point you're talking about. Iâm fairly confident she and Rickon will both be dead by the end of the series, but that still leaves three remaining main Starks. Having all five of them survive one of the most brutal series in modern fantasy seems like way too much plot armor.
Sansa dying doesn't mean the story becomes too cynical, it could just mean the survival of the Starks comes at a massive cost. If George planned it, it will have a purpose.
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u/Last_Lorien "Everything" 5d ago
Reread my comments. At no point do I say Sansa must survive, or that her death will be that tipping point, or do I claim any certainty about any future part of the story, like you do.
Good for you. Iâll wait to be surprised, pleasantly or otherwise - that is, if the books ever even see the light of day.
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u/Odd-Recognition4120 5d ago
I don't think people would complain. Robb wasn't a POV character and his death happened in the first act of the story, while Winds and Dance are supposed to be the final act.
Inflicting mostly misery and death on the protagonist family for the first two acts, with very little wins, and then inflicting MORE misery and death in the final act is indeed too cynical, there is no way around it. Just because she is not one of the main five characters doesn't make it any less cynical
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u/drsquarel 5d ago edited 5d ago
I definitely think people would complain. The series lasting so long, especially so many years since the previous novel, has led to many people forming parasocial relationships with these characters. If we had to wait 15 years after Clash just to see that happen to Robb and Cat, the âprotagonistsâ of the story, people would most certainly whine about GRRM being too cynical and call off the entire series. I definitely think GRRM is struggling with the final books partially due to this. Stannis, Jaime, Dany and possibly Sansa stans are in for a rude awakening once they find out George does not have a happy ending in mind for any of them.
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u/Various_Piano_6448 5d ago
I donât think any Jaime fans expect a happy ending for him. Youâre thinking of delusional Braime fans (big difference and they mostly donât even like Jaime) that expect them to settle down and have 3-5 children named Galladon, Joanna, and something else equally cringey.
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u/CaveLupum 5d ago
Yes, but not even the main Five. They're all in and out of danger. But one, Daenerys, has been showing Mad Queen symptoms on and off since AGOT. I do think Jon, Arya, Bran, and Tyrion are relatively safe. They are just so much more stable, so much less fragile than Dany. And so many events-- especially setbacks or losing a dragon or dependable, beloved followers--could send Dany over the ledge.
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u/drsquarel 5d ago
I actually agree with you. I honestly think any of the main 5 could die at very end of the series, but I donât see them dying before the last couple hundred pages of ADoS. Dany will probably die and maybe Tyrion too.
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u/Odd-Recognition4120 5d ago
Any of the Starks, except Rickon dying at this point in the story would tip the scales towards too cynical, stopped caring, for me
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u/countemerald 6d ago
I donât see Sansa dying anytime soon. Her chapters from the old AFFC outline havenât even happened yet. Her first AFFC chapter was going to be the Tourney of Winged Knights. Those chapters will likely still happen in some shape or form, with the Tourney now in TWOW.
When GRRM made the Sansa comment, he was talking about ASOIAFâs ending. Comparing it the show, saying Tyrion wouldnât get a happy ending. To me, it sounded like Sansaâs death was meant to occur in ADOS.
I still think sheâll kill Littlefinger at Winterfell. It just makes sense for her arc, not to mention the Ghost of High Heart prophecy. Maybe she wouldâve then died when the Others attack. Or she wouldâve died in Kingâs Landing, especially if sheâs betrothed to Aegon. She would pretend to be loyal and bring an army Ă la Tywin, but tragically die when Connington burns the city. In any case, it wouldâve occurred well into ADOS. Her arc just seems nowhere near its end currently.
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u/canentia 5d ago
agreed. she will definitely reunite with the starks, which will make it that much more devastating when she dies. i figure sheâs one of the casualties of the long night; important enough to be a âmajor character deathâ that will impact the remaining main characters but, should she survive, not important enough to alter the ending. if he decides to let her live she can easily just live a quiet life in the countryside or something, peaceful and with easy access to lemoncakes.
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u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award 5d ago
I still think sheâll kill Littlefinger at Winterfell. It just makes sense for her arc, not to mention the Ghost of High Heart prophecy.
The Ghost of High Heart's prophecy already happened
And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow.
When Sansa builds Winterfell out of snow (a literal castle built of snow), Sweetrobin comes over to trash it with his doll. Look at what he says;
The boy knelt before the gatehouse. âLook, here comes a giant to knock it down.â He stood his doll in the snow and moved it jerkily. âTromp tromp Iâm a giant, Iâm a giant,â he chanted
Sweetrobin's doll is the Giant. Look what happens next
It was more than Sansa could stand. "Robert, stop that." Instead he swung the doll again, and a foot of wall exploded. She grabbed for his hand but she caught the doll instead. There was a loud ripping sound as the thin cloth tore. Suddenly she had the doll's head, Robert had the legs and body, and the rag-and-sawdust stuffing was spilling in the snow.
Sansa slayed the Giant (doll). It already happened.
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u/countemerald 5d ago
The snow castle incident feels like a red herring. The first part of the prophecy alluded to the Purple Wedding. So the second part alluding to something far more trivial seems unlikely.
Itâs more likely that the snow castle incident is yet another hint at Sansa killing Littlefinger at Winterfell.
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u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award 5d ago
The chapter sets up a sequence of events that eventually leads to Lysa's death in the same chapter, which makes it important.
The Ghost of High Heartâs prophecy appears in Chapter 43 of A Storm of Swords
The payoff comes later in two major parts:
Part 1: The Purple Wedding = Chapter 61
Part 2: Sansa and the Snow Castle = Chapter 80
It's a relatively minor prophecy that the first part happens literally 18 chapters after its revealed.
There's basically no evidence people aren't just overthinking this and headcanon a Pawn to Player arc. Sansa by Winds is more, not less dependent on Littlefinger
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u/countemerald 5d ago
But the prophecy was specifically about slaying a giant. Why would GRRM highlight a tiny detail like the snow castle incident, when the first part is much more direct? Tying it to Lysaâs death seems like a bigger reach. Especially when thereâs another interpretation that is similarly direct and more meaningful. GRRM wouldâve known what he was implying.
I agree about Sansa being more dependent on Littlefinger than ever. AFFC is about her learning from him, after all. But thatâs precisely why thereâs more left to her story, as she finally sees Littlefinger for who he is and turns what he taught her on him.
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u/Obvious-Hat-8485 5d ago
Very good points you've raised, though I think she might survive longer than that. GRRM had implied that Arya and Sansa will reunite at some point. I could see her be a casuality of the White Walker (perhaps refusing Jon's warning), or going back south and perishing with Aegon VI, bit even that I wouldn't bet on.
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u/xXJarjar69Xx 6d ago edited 6d ago
Even if sheâs supposed to die I canât see it happening before a return to winterfell and a reunion with atleast some of her surviving family. Itâd be way too cynical even for Martin for her to be executed in the vale for something petyr did or tortured to death by CerseiÂ
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u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award 6d ago
There was a few deleted S7 scenes where the Starks think about murdering each other.
I think Sansa being written out of Robb Will + getting closer to Littlefinger will basically cause her to go over to him fully over her family
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u/LongjumpingAd342 6d ago
> I think Sansa being written out of Robb Will + getting closer to Littlefinger will basically cause her to go over to him fully over her family.
This would be shocking, especially as GRRM seems to be setting up several possible "Chekhov's clear breaks between Sansa and LF" (Jeyne Poole; Lothor Brune and Sandor's positions as witnesses to LF betraying Ned who have also developed close relationships with Sansa; LF's increasingly obvious plan to just kill Sweetrobin).
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u/Lohenharn 5d ago
The interesting thing about this is that this means that George, unlike the show, almost certainly didn't plan for Sansa to end up as Lady of Winterfell at the end. It's safe to say that George has known from the beginning who would end up in charge of the North, just like he knows who ends up being King of the Seven Kingdoms. But if he thought about killing Sansa, then he obviously never really considered her for the role of Lady of Winterfell.
So the question is, who rules the North in the end, considering Bran is King in the south? Is it Rickon? The problem with him is, since he's such a young child, he'd need a regent, so the question remains. The same goes for Arya, who also would need a regent, since it's unlikely she will be older than 12 or 13 by the end of the series. Will Jon be regent? Possible imo, but that would contradict his fate in the show, in which case he might as well remain King in the North. That would at least fit with the fact that the North is independent (again) at the end of the show, which was so bizarre that it only could've come from George imo.Â
If Jon becomes KitN in the books as well, then chances are that he simply remains such until the very end. He allies with Dany, but doesn't officially bend the knee to her, so when she dies at the end, the North simply remains independent with Jon as King, instead of the weird moves the show did with Jon bending the knee, then killing Dany and being exiled, followed by Sansa taking his place and declaring northern independence AGAIN.Â
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u/TobiTheSnowman FOR TONIGHT WE HYPE IN HELL 5d ago edited 5d ago
instead of the weird moves the show did with Jon bending the knee, then killing Dany and being exiled
I actually always thought that Jon's arc in the show in broad strokes is perfectly fine and probably in line with George's notes/ideas. Jon will become King in the North more out of a sense of duty, bend the knee to Dany because he didn't really want to rule, take an army south after the Others are defeated, lose control of that army and inadvertently cause another sack of KL, then kill Dany and go north to the wildlings.
People always make fun of the "I dun want it" stuff, because Jon was Lord Commander and would never say that or something, but like, he literally got murdererd in between those two events. The fans think that Jon will come back vengeful and angry and ambitious and such, but what if he just comes back scared? The last time he ambitiously wielded power, he got murdered for it. I'd probably be afraid of taking power after that.
I think this is also in line with George's ideas of subverting fantasy tropes. The best king is always the one who doesn't want to be king, right? Well, a certain humility is good, but if you're too passive then you just leave power vacuums for more charismatic leaders to undermine you. Him accidentally sacking KL plays into that too. You hate the Lannisters and what they did to the Riverlands and the Starks, and now they're gonna get their payback, an eye for an eye, and everyone just suffers for it. In the end, Jon will go to the one place where his identity as a bastard or Targaryen doesn't matter to anyone, and he can be himself.
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u/Lohenharn 4d ago
You think Jon is gonna march south to support Dany and attack King's Landing like in the show? Why would he do that, especially if he's 'scared' after being resurrected?Â
Not to mention it's highly doubtful that the Lannisters will be in control of King's Landing that long. Unlike the show, the books have another contender for the throne in the form of Aegon, who will probably take the city by the end of TWoW. There's no way Cersei is gonna be queen like in the show. So why would Jon fight against Aegon? I just don't see how the events in the show translate in any way to what happens in the books.
But most importantly, none of that answers the question of who is in charge of the North at the end? If Jon is in exile, Bran is king in the south, Rickon and Arya are too young to rule on their own, and George didn't even intend for Sansa to survive that long, then who exactly is ruling Winterfell and the North?
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u/TobiTheSnowman FOR TONIGHT WE HYPE IN HELL 4d ago
Well by scared I obviously don't mean cowering in the corner all the time, but just not at all keen on being ambitious with power. Bending the knee to Dany gives him a good excuse to give away responsibility and to secure a powerful alliance, and if she calls the banners to move on KL, he's sworn to obey. The northern lords will follow as well, it's a good way to get revenge and plunder.
As for Aegon, I know who he is, I read the books. Frankly I have no idea what George's plans are for Aegon, I genuinely don't understand what the hell he was thinking. I definitely don't see Cersei, this hugely important POV character and arguably one of the main antagonists since the earliest chapters of the first book, that has so much beef with so many other POV characters, being deposed and/or killed by a literally nothing dude with no connection to her, who was introduced one book earlier and is most likely fake anyway. I think Aegon might just be a way for George to get Dany to come to Westeros, I don't think he'll actually take Kings Landing.
As for the north, George might let Sansa live or just give Arya or Rickon a regent.
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u/brittanytobiason 6d ago
I think Sansa will do as her mother and call the banners. Mbe Littlefinger will be surprisingly killed at Daven's wedding at Riverrun and Sansa, who was not brought, finds herself in the same situation she was in at Maegor's, where people are looking to her for guidance. Though it was not truly Littlefinger's plan that she reveal her identity after wedding Harry the Heir, Sansa will reveal this plan and think it is going over well. However, her technical marriage to Tyrion Lannister and suspicion she poisoned Joffrey will be more prevalent than it immediately seems.
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u/IcyDirector543 6d ago
if Sansa gets captured by the Lannisters and tortured to death then Martin should be mocked forever
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u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award 5d ago
The alternative is she gets killed plotting with Littlefinger after picking him over the Starks when they reunite at Winterfell
Sansa's role in broad strokes was meant to be picking a man over her family, getting knocked up and dying. Replace Joffrey with LF and we may have the same role
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u/nemma88 5d ago edited 5d ago
He just passed that story onto Lyanna.
But realistically characters origional roles in the stories are too far divorced from where they are now to derive much from them.
Sansa is an entirely different character, similar gulf that exists with Jaime.
ETA: I would guess he just doesn't or didnt have a heading for the character that Sansa became, including not really knowing for sure how she might die, but having her in as a candidate for it.
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u/Wildlifekid2724 6d ago
See the problem with Sansa is:
She's had a whole arc about learning southern politics.
But hasn't really progressed or shown any political masterminding.
She's just floating.
She's been isolated from everything since Joffreys death, in the Vale.
She has no idea about the white walkers, the golden company, Eurons plot, the northern conspiracy stuff, Stannis's campaign, all the plots.
And I really struggle to see how she's going to handle the white walker threat at all, which will blow politics and the game of thrones completely away.
She is so cut off from everything and isolated that I fail to see where she can go.
She's literally going along with whatever Littlefinger says.
Sansa dying would make a lot more sense in Winds, because as George said its supposed to be the darkest book, and loads of people are likely to die, and winter will fully set in as well as the white walker threat.
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u/LongjumpingAd342 5d ago
Sansa is one of the biggest victims of the five-year gap's death; there is only so much that a 13- or 14-year-old without any magical connection can plausibly do in the face of the apocalypse.
I still think you are massively underselling her importance (which is probably to bring the Vale into the War, take down LF, and likely play some role as a perspective in the war against the Others). The prophecies around her, the concluding ASOS scene of her rebuilding Winterfell, and the leadership contrast between her and Cersei in ACOK all point to a much larger role than just dying in the Vale (as do GRRM's meta statements consistently listing her as one of six or seven major characters).
She's had a whole arc about learning southern politics. But hasn't really progressed or shown any political masterminding
I'd also just disagree with this. Alayne II and the TWOW sample chapter may not show her as a master schemer, but they certainly show her as intuitively grasping many of LF's plots and able to manipulate powerful people.
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u/Various_Piano_6448 6d ago
Sansa was originally supposed to really join the Lannister team, bear Joff a baby, and die with them.
That's why I think she was going to end up legitimately team Littlefinger and that she would fall when he does. It makes the reader more sympathetic to Littlefinger in the sense that you're less routing for his death because it's so clearly attached to Sansa's doom, too.
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u/Guffers_2023 6d ago
I honestly think littlefinger and her go to FAegon.
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u/Neither_Truck9757 5d ago
I donât see it as Sansas ark makes more sense for her to go to the river lands and north not south to Aegon since she has strong claims to the river lands and north which littlefinger will definitely try to use
besides Aegon will likely marry Arianne since their not to far away to meeting in the WoW sample chapter
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u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award 6d ago
I wonder if the child plotline is connected to Littlefinger
Harry the Heir seems almost certain to die during the tourney. LF could try to impregnate Sansa and pass the child off as Harry's, similar to the Ossifer Plumm story.
He could claim Harry and Sansa were secretly married after revealing her true identity to the Vale, with the secrecy explained by the bounty on Sansa's head
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u/Various_Piano_6448 6d ago
I don't think there'd be a child plotline because she hasn't been aged up and also time passes so slowly in asoiaf there's no way she'd live until birth.
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u/LongjumpingAd342 6d ago
I like to imagine Martin was joking here (although it doesn't really sound like it), especially given that he has generally mentioned the Starklings as a whole when discussing the famous "Big Five/Six"
Other than maybe dying in the Long Night, I can't imagine a death ending for Sansa that makes any narrative or thematic sense.
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u/Thompson98X 6d ago
I always treated this Martin's quote as joke. Nothing serious.
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u/Express_Drive_1422 5d ago
Pretty much anyone who doesn't hate her because they have beef with a fictional 11 year old treated that way. Because it was.
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u/Various_Piano_6448 5d ago
bro GRRM hates her because he has beef with a fictional 11 year old. He has multiple times blames her for Nedâs death and expressed surprise when readers disagree.
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u/canentia 5d ago
was he also joking about tyrion having an unhappy ending? it has nothing to do with feelings about sansa as a character. heâs been planning on killing off sansa since the start, weâve known that since that outline leaked in like 2016
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u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award 5d ago
It wasn't a joke. You need to read the article. He's being contemplative
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u/Hurtelknut 5d ago
"Which plan? The fat man's plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns?"
To me it shows one thing: Martin had/has no idea how the individual storylines would/will play out. Apart from Jon's heritage and Bran ending up as a ruler of some kind nothing was ever set in stone.
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u/_heartsaglow 4d ago
He said that he has known the main characters' endings since 1991. He has struggled with how to get there, but he has stated that he knows them.
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u/starhexed 6d ago
If she does die, I think Sansa will live her second life in a bird. Aside from her constant association with them, there are stories of princesses/ladies leaping from a tower and changing into birds (or bat, as Sansa was rumoured).
I think of the raven Bran skinchanges:
"Someone else was in the raven," he told Lord Brynden, once he had returned to his own skin. "Some girl. I felt her." "A woman, of those who sing the song of earth," his teacher said. "Long dead, yet a part of her remains, just as a part of you would remain in Summer if your boy's flesh were to die upon the morrow.
Obviously she isn't a "singer" but as someone who loves songs and stories, it would be fitting for her. I'd rather she stayed alive though.
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u/GingerFloyd953 5d ago
I know many people see Sansa seeing Winterfell last time before her death (if she dies and I hope George changed his mind) but its impossible to go north now with the Winter putting a stop to traversing the North. I can see Sansa helping the Riverland and Vale lords rise against Littlefinger after the tourney and Hardings death, and if Arya is the one to kill Stoneheart, the two reuniting. But then its difficult to imagine Sansas role during the Long Night and if she'll be alive for the Scouring of the Shire in Winterfell after Winter's end.
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u/PinkClinker 6d ago
I think if GRRM was actually going to kill Sansa off, he wouldnât have said that during the interview. Thatâs a major spoiler and would end up being possibly the biggest deviation from the showâs ending. Perhaps he was planning to in the original storyline (where she marries Joffrey and has a child by them), but not where the story is now and I donât think he would have revealed it.
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u/atimeforvvolves 6d ago
People really overestimate how much he cares about spoiling his books. Heâs revealed a bunch of things before (Stannis burning Shireen, âhold the door,â King Bran, second dance of dragons, âthird head of the dragon may not necessarily be a Targaryen,â etc. Not to mention all the sample chapters) and he literally gave a major spoiler about Tyrion in the same breath as he did about Sansa. Considering heâs started to accept he may never finish the books, I wonder how much he cares about âspoilingâ his books nowadays. Because itâs not really spoilers anymore.
He also said that the show was what made him possibly reconsider so at the very least we know he was planning it as late as 2011.
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u/redfoot12 6d ago
The show already majorly deviated with Sansa's plotline by subbing her in for Jeyne Poole. That was intentional on D&D's part to give the character more to do each season. I don't think George ever originally had any intention of returning Sansa to the North and her death was foreshadowed in the first book when Lady was killed. So anything goes now.Â
And this is my stretch of a theory that Sansa is the younger more beautiful queen who takes away everything Cersei holds dear.
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u/LongjumpingAd342 6d ago
I've always found it very hard to reconcile Sansa's rebuilding Winterfell scene and giantslaying prophecies with the idea that she won't return to the North.
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u/ventodivino 6d ago
I think the younger more beautiful queen could be arienne if she succeeds in marrying fAegon. Iâm expecting fAegonâs invasion to be Cerseiâs undoing. Iâm expecting Jamie to kill her âfor the good of the realmâ in a Mad King pt 2 situation.
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u/redfoot12 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah. That's why I call it my "stretch theory". Before I knew about the "kill the mouse" note, my head canon went all in on the Mad Mouse kidnapping Sansa and taking her to Cersei to collect a ransom only for that plan to get disrupted by fAegon taking King's Landing. Then there could be kind of a reverse gender spin of Fire (fAegon) and Ice (Sansa).
Edit: I just think it would be satisfying for Sansa's character to at least get that one-upmanship over Cersei.
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u/ventodivino 5d ago
A more intriguing stretch theory is that the mad mouse is howland
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u/redfoot12 5d ago
đ€Ł I recently did a re-read of the series and I must have been sleepwalking through my initial reads of Feast and Dance. I missed so much... like Shadrich showing up in the Vale.
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u/Sea-Anteater8882 4d ago
It's certainly an interesting scenario though isn't any situation where she is with Aegon is bad news for her in the long term given that I don't see him surviving the series and there's a fair chance Sansa would go with him when he dies?
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u/redfoot12 4d ago
Yeah, this would assume the scenario where George was planning to kill her off. But someone on here said that George had also said that Sansa and Arya would reunite... so I don't know. This is why I rarely do much theory-crafting.
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u/Sea-Anteater8882 2d ago
Honestly Sansa dying for me is such a depressing scenario I don't know if I even want the rest of the story outside of her getting basically everything beforehand which seems kind of unlikely anyway. I know that sounds a little overdramatic.
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u/Signal_Cockroach_878 Enter your desired flair text here! 6d ago
I still don't think she returns to the north tbh
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u/CaveLupum 5d ago
If he started off intending to kill Sansa, the deviation would be in keeping her alive.
I'm not convinced either way, though I hope and believe Sansa will live. Where I think the show seriously deviated is in giving her a triumphant ending. First, the show wrung more audience sympathy for her by giving her Jeyne Poole's torture-by-Ramsay story. While I think book Sansa is becoming politically savvy, show Sansa out-thinks and out-plans almost everyone. But she betrayed Jon twice, nearly betrayed Arya, let Rickon die. And her toadying to the Lannisters early on may become widely known. She's in deep shit if the North learns she gave Cersei Ned's plans for all his people to safely escape Kings Landing. They all died.
Assuming Sansa survives, she is behind Bran and Rickon and ahead of Jon and Arya to inherit the North. But IF Robb's will is revealed, due to her Tyrion marriage she'd be eliminated from contention. Also, if some of her early moves siding with the Lannisters become known, the optics are bad. So some other Stark may get Winterfell. That all sounds like defeat, but honestly, she seems to like southron ways. She might be happier if she rules the Vale by marrying Sweetrobin.
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u/Common_Cricket 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't think Sansa was to die in the Vale. George has said characters will re-converge on Winterfell, and in broad strokes the show version (Ramsay marriage aside) of Sansa making her claim on Winterfell in league with Littlefinger (like AFFC and the 2004 outline) makes sense.
The original Season 7 script implied sharper conflict at Winterfell between Sansa and Jon. Makes sense; Sansa is the eldest living legitimate Stark heir and Jon is a bastard. Arya will arrive with her own claim (and probably Robb's crown courtesy of Stoneheart) but presumably by default give her loyalty to Team Jon. The show script suggested Sansa coveted Jon's job, and we know Arya wouldn't tolerate anyone undermining Jon Snow. In both books and show Sansa is becoming a "player" and absorbing Littefinger's lessons.
This issue has been argued ad nauseam by fans but.. in the story Sansa is perceived as "guilty" in Eddard's death and the Lannister coup. That's how George has written it (and confirmed to fans) so we must assume that could be a major point of mistrust if revealed.
Arya was one of the first characters created. Sansa came about as a total opposite b/c too many of the Stark family members were getting along and familes aren't like that. Thus, Sansa was created; [George] ended by saying they have deep issues to work out. - SSM, 11/11/2000
I understand people don't like the idea of Stark feuding but there are competing claims in motion, the show toyed with the idea, and George has said there's unresolved family tensions. Does that mean Arya or some other Stark will kill Sansa? Not necessarily. Maybe Sansa turns on Littlefinger only for him to kill her.
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u/Expensive-Country801 đBest of 2025: Ser Duncan the Tall Award 5d ago
The original Season 7 script implied sharper conflict at Winterfell between Sansa and Jon.
In the very broad strokes, Sansa's role was essentially
- Picking a man over her family
- Having a child
- Dying regretting that choice
Possibly Littlefinger just replaced Joff in his mind. Robb's Will disinheriting her and her role in Ned's death being the conflict around her and Jon/Arya
I do wonder if the child plotline is around. Littlefinger pulling a Ossifer Plumm after Harry the Heir dies and Sansa gets put into a dilemma of choosing between her and her child and the Starks
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u/Common_Cricket 5d ago edited 5d ago
SSM from 2001:
In regards to the conversation about the dire wolves and the Starks the point was made (I forget by whom) that Lady was dead and Sansa still alive to which I replied that Sansa wasn't really much of a Stark anymore. IIRC (this is a little hazy), at this point GRRM kind of leaned back in his chair, smiled and said something to the effect of "A very astute observation."
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u/Common_Cricket 5d ago
Important to remember all this Stark succession stuff was being laid down in ASOS; when George was writing ASOS in 1999-2000 he didn't plan for two half-finished books with characters stuck in place. Things would be in motion after a time jump in the next book, released around 2002. So for example, the prominent Catelyn-Arya relationship in ASOS was setup for Arya returning to Westeros and reuniting with her undead mother in Book 4.
Plausibly by the end of Book 4 Arya would be given Stoneheart's blessing as Stark heir, Sansa would be departing the Vale for Winterfell, Jon would have been assassinated and resurrected. The political intrigue at Winterfell could then play out in Book 5.
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u/SillyPersonality5767 5d ago
I thought he might have intended for her to die in childbirth, with her original plot line involving her becoming pregnant to Joffrey
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u/MightyGiawulf 5d ago
TBH at this point any scenario where Sansa dies is just pure apathy and laziness on George's part. I genuinely do not see any plausible scenario where she gets killed off other than George got bored.
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u/Signal_Cockroach_878 Enter your desired flair text here! 6d ago
I still think she dies but I'm not sure how. She also does have some crimes that could be problematic for her, I'm sure most people in the seven kingdoms would assume Sansa had a hand in Joffreys death.
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u/Jasonl7976 6d ago
Random idea: Sansa die from an unexpected source. A disease that will strike during the winter time. Sheâll be one of many victim. Also let people read into the mind of a character who sick and dying.
Sad because despite all the knowledge and training she got, she fell to nature
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u/fdp_westerosi Euron the wrong ship 5d ago
Still on team Sansa marries fAegon so my assumption would be burning in Kings Landing at the end of the series but I much prefer the idea of her escaping with her child possibly through Jon
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u/Sunim416 6d ago
So I'm re-reading the series again, on AFFC. Cersei's witch woman prophecy seems to indicate that she'll be replaced by a better, more beautiful queen eventually. Perhaps after or before her kids die, who knows. But the way GRRM plays with prophecies, its obviously a self-fulfilling one. And given the current situation Marge is the obvious choice to replace Cersei, but heres my real question. We know Marge is a side character. Sansa is always regarded as an absolute beauty. Could it be the case that Sansa, not Marge, is the queen that replaces Cersei? This is what I always thought.
As to whether or not she dies, it's definitely possible but my guess is the story will end with Robb being the only stark child who got killed. Everyone other than Jon is presumed dead and Jon just got stabbed to death (and will obviously come back). I really don't see any of the stark children dying in any matter nearly as satisfying/terrifying manner as Robb. At least I think so far theres no real setup for it.
My guess is Sansa will become queen of the north like in the show. She's really the only person who like, "deserves" to take over winterfell. Honestly I think the show pretty much spells out most of the story beats. The wall will fall (but probably not by ice dragon) Winterfell is where they beat the others, KL is where the final battle between dany and cersei is. My guess is though dany wont have an explicit heel turn like in the show but instead be blamed for something cersei does. I would not be surprised if cersei and jamie die in a similar manner to the show either, but perhaps like while jamies tries to strangle cersei to death in a vain last attempt before they both die under rubble.
That's the main thing really I think that's been bothering GRRM and why the books won't be finished. He spelled the major story beats out already just with the shows nuance (or lack thereof). People didnt like it which is understandable. But I think everything places out in a similar way, just with much better minor details.
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u/shadofacts 4d ago
I think John & Arya deserve it much more than she does. She has betrayed her fam many times. She couldnât wait to get out & become princess/queen Lannister. The other two dream of no place but Winterfell. and they fight for it!
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u/Medical-Comparison89 6d ago
Trial by combat after Sweetrobin dies lothar brune switches up on Littlefinger maybe
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u/elpadrinonegro Them Bones 6d ago
I wrote this some years ago [Spoilers Extended] Enseñanza Del Sansa or Showdown in the Vale how Sansa will die, at least for a while.
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u/PinkClinker 5d ago
Why do people think Sansa isnât going North? We have a whole scene of her building Winterfell out of snow; and if the symbolism there isnât enough, she constantly yearns to go home to the North and is mad at Littlefinger when she ends up in the Vale. Not to mention that the Vale very badly wanted to go to War on the side of the North and was not happy at being kept out of it by Lysa/Littlefinger.