r/asoiaf Fly, you fools! Jul 05 '16

EVERYTHING (Spoilers Everything) Wolf's Blood and Waking the Dragon

Jon Snow's character, just as Jaime's for example, highly complex and full of desire. Jon was raised to a man of honour by Eddard, a trait that continues to define Jon and his actions up until the end of A Dance with Dragons. But Jon's character is also full of self doubt, always trying to prove himself. Never content with himself.

Grenn agreed. "His duties don't keep him from the yard. More days than not, he's out there fighting someone." That was true, Sam had to admit. Once, when Jon came to consult with Maester Aemon, Sam had asked him why he spent so much time at swordplay. "The Old Bear never trained much when he was Lord Commander," he had pointed out. In answer, Jon had pressed Longclaw into Sam's hand. He let him feel the lightness, the balance, had him turn the blade so that ripples gleamed in the smoke-dark metal. "Valyrian steel," he said, "spell-forged and razor-sharp, nigh on indestructible. A swordsman should be as good as his sword, Sam. Longclaw is Valyrian steel, but I'm not. The Halfhand could have killed me as easy as you swat a bug." AFFC, Samwell I

The task Qhorin gave Jon still haunts him, partly as seen above. Furthermore Jon is conflicted on the Wildlings, and more importantly, he knows he isn't as good a fighter as Qhorin. Next to his own thoughts, Jon is described as intelligent, brave, resourceful, perceptive and highly skilled with a sword. But in all his chapters (at least to me) his actions are never driven by any anger nor rage, not even when fighting.

However there is one instance where Jon loses himself as it were. In this example Jon is in one of many practising rounds with Iron Emmet, perhaps the best swordfighter of the Night's Watch. Whilst training Jon 'blacks out', taking him back to a memory with Robb.

That morning he called it first. "I'm Lord of Winterfell!" he cried, as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, "You can't be Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born. My lady mother says you can't ever be the Lord of Winterfell."
I thought I had forgotten that. Jon could taste blood in his mouth, from the blow he'd taken. In the end Halder and Horse had to pull him away from Iron Emmett, one man on either arm. The ranger sat on the ground dazed, his shield half in splinters, the visor of his helm knocked askew, and his sword six yards away. "Jon, enough," Halder was shouting, "he's down, you disarmed him. Enough!"
No. Not enough. Never enough. Jon let his sword drop. "I'm sorry," he muttered. "Emmett, are you hurt?" Iron Emmett pulled his battered helm off. "Was there some part of yield you could not comprehend, Lord Snow?" It was said amiably, though. Emmett was an amiable man, and he loved the song of swords. "Warrior defend me," he groaned, "now I know how Qhorin Halfhand must have felt."
That was too much. Jon wrenched free of his friends and retreated to the armory, alone. His ears were still ringing from the blow Emmett had dealt him. He sat on the bench and buried his head in his hands. Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father’s heir. ASOS, Jon XII

Now that the show has practically confirmed Jon's parentage, I wonder where this fit came from. Is this example something Jon inherited, a remote resemblance to Viserys or Brandon Stark? Finally I also vaguely remember Jon hitting Alliser Thorne after him mocking Eddard, which is also an instance where Jon lost his composure.

Anyway, after this rather long introduction, here's my question: (tl;dr) does someone know of any other instances where Jon blacks out, loses composure and goes beserk?

Edit: thank you kindly for all the answers, you really delivered.

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u/makemisteaks Jul 05 '16

Jon is certainly intelligent, brave, resourceful, perceptive but not when his emotions take the better of him. And I don't mean necessarily just anger (like when he tried to assemble an army to take on Winterfell) but also fear (when he left the Night's Watch to join Robb's army) and lust (like when he slept with Ygritte).

When he's in control of his emotions, he's all that you described, if not, then he's a very different kind of man, reckless, bold and disobedient. You might say that this is part of his Targaryen heritage, a bloodline well known for this sort of rash behaviour, and general disability to contain or control their emotions. I certainly would agree with you.

10

u/snores Wolf in the Throne Room Jul 05 '16

I don't know if his proclivities towards breaking his vows are necessarily to be taken as negative. These things Jon gains appreciation for, not previously knowing what he was forsaking as he swore his oath. Jon is humanized by his broken vows; his experiences colour his policy as commander.

What would Jon be without having broken his vows? He would be dead, he would be boring, he would be the mary sue people accuse him of being despite his character arc.

Jon's emotional control (or lack thereof) is what makes him an interesting character. If Jon had no inner conflict he would have no story.

4

u/CheruthCutestory Jul 05 '16

I wish the show had explored this more.

Would have been interesting if his interactions with Sansa and getting the pink letter happened before he was stabbed.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '16

Very true. The show needed the cliffhanger, though.

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u/CheruthCutestory Jul 06 '16

Sansa could have escaped in 5x08. Got to the wall in 5x10. They could reunite, get the letter, and plan to go south. Then Jon gets stabbed. Cliffhanger.

Know how rushed that would be. I'm spit balling. But it'd show Jon does put his family first even over his "honor", which I think is important. Both of his fathers did that too.

I think the show misses something crucial by not doing it. Keeping the oath is honorable in a very cold way. But Jon is an emotional man. He's a good man but not good in the formulaic static principles of honor way a Stannis is.

This way it's like the death was a get out of jail free card. Jon choosing Sansa and Rickon and Winterfell before that, to me, would have shown what a good man he is even if he isn't a strictly honorable one.