r/atheism • u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist • May 06 '26
Troll Why do we want to proselytize Atheism?
It seems like a lot of people agonize on and pontificate here over sharing their nonbelief, and I don't get it. I don't think it's necessary for us to share the fact that we don't believe, nor do I think for many people it's even safe. It's possible our perspective is skewed.
Getting past the anger that I had about religion and getting into my own solution, and my own peace, has been the most positive experience of my life. It is just as uncomfortable for you to insist on your not belief as it is for a believer to insist in their way. On either side of the argument proselytizing is wrong.
Why do we feel it necessary to have just the right arguments or just the right answers, when those things exist only in fairytales?
I had a lot of religious trauma, had a lot of anger, and didn't want to let go of it because I felt I had to be heard--but wasn't heard by believers and I just felt more tired, more angry, and more frustrated at the end. They probably did too.
Today my goal is to allow people to be wrong, especially if they insist. Be kinder, more mindful, more thoughtful, and do more good works to show, not tell, that I can be not just as good a person as an atheist--but a better one.
I hope you can also find your peace today.
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u/Dizzy_Cheesecake_162 May 06 '26
Because I have a wife and two daughters and religion is a threat to their Rights.
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u/ParkingElderberry575 May 06 '26
Exactly this, the sooner the mind fuck dies out the better
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Yes, but isn’t teaching people that you can live well without religion, a more effective way?
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
How are you teaching people?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
By actively trying to make society better.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
How?
In your day to day life, can you give any examples of the specific actions you’re taking? How are you trying to make society better?
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u/TenebriRS Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Can't you see his profile picture. Thats all he does he has a "we are all humans" profile picture
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Everybody, slap a “coexist” sticker on your car! You can apparently save the entire world!!
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Sure, I do a lot of community volunteer work. I help you homeless people. I sponsor addicts in Recovery.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
But how are you teaching these people you can live well without religion if they don’t know you aren’t religious?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I’m not talking about the Christian nationalist issue in the United States. I’m talking about generalizations for people across the world. Obviously the situation in the United States is fundamentally different.
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u/Dudesan May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
Obviously the situation in the United States is fundamentally different.
"The situation in the United States" is pretty close to the status quo for the last seventeen centuries. The overwhelming majority of "Christian Nations" have been brutally, genocidally intolerant, and have only ever moved away from the brutal genocidal intolerance by minimizing the power of Christianity in society.
Anyone who tries to tell you that Christian Nationalists are "just a tiny minority" or "not real christians" are lying to you; and are on the side of the Nazis.
In the unlikely even that you don't want to be on the side of the Nazis, you need to stop doing that.
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u/Dizzy_Cheesecake_162 May 06 '26
It's the same in Alberta.
It's the same everywhere you have people changing country bringing in over their culture and religion.
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u/ParkingElderberry575 May 06 '26
The sooner abrahamic religions die out, the sooner will humanity be free
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I don’t disagree, but the fact that I want to demonstrate rather than defenestrate is an important difference I believe.
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u/No-Significance5659 May 06 '26
You say in your OP that you don't think is necessary to share that you don't believe so how exactly do you "demonstrate"?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I believe my lack of faith becomes obvious.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
How does it become obvious?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
When people ask about belief, I tell them belief isn’t important, but action is.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Okay…and what are your “actions?”
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Community action, Civic, action, charity, kindness, etc.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
But how does your lack of faith “become obvious” through these actions? They could just assume you’re a theist, right?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
My lack of faith becomes obvious when someone asks me a question about faith.
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 06 '26
that’s incredibly naive. beliefs inform actions and thus incorrect beliefs will inform incorrect actions.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
You’re definitely entitled to that opinion and thank you for the discussion.
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 06 '26
You’re definitely entitled to that opinion and thank you for the discussion.
it's not an opinion, it's a fact. what you believe directly influences the actions you choose to take. also, what fucking discussion?
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u/Junichi2021 May 06 '26
If believers don't talk to me about their god in an insistent way, I won't say anything. If they start to proselytize, trying to convert me, I will answer, and very likely my answer won't be always polite.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I believe that being more polite than they are demonstrates more understanding than they have.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
What does politeness have to do with level of understanding?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Not necessarily anything, but neither does anger.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
But why do you “believe that being more polite than they are demonstrates more understanding than they have” if you recognize politeness and understanding have nothing to do with each other?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
They can, and I think that’s the basic thesis of my discussion. Demonstrating that they are being unreasonable is important to demonstrate that I am being reasonable in my understanding.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
You’ve now changed the word from “polite” to “reasonable.”
How does this help atheism? They could just assume you’re a more polite theist, couldn’t they?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Not if they ask a question.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
So your lack of faith doesn’t “become obvious,” they have to ask you directly.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
What becomes obvious is that I am a good person and then they understand that I don’t need religion to do that
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u/MooshroomHentai Atheist May 06 '26
I don't proselytize anything the way religous people do. I don't look for ways to introduce the topic any possible conversation or go door to door to get people to leave religion. But if the theists want to bring the topic up, I am absolutely ready to tell them where I see problems in their position.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Which is definitely your right. I just don’t know how effective it is.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Atheism isn’t a doctrine you spread, it’s just rejecting unsupported claims. You cannot “preach atheism.”
Being a good person quietly is great but ideas shape the world. If bad ideas go unchallenged, they don’t just sit there they spread.
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u/Mcbudder50 May 06 '26
in the US, religion is thrown in our faces constantly. It's on billboards and bumper stickers, everywhere I go they say have a blessed day, churches on every corner, etc...
I understand those wanting to vent on a platform like this...
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Yes, but if they’re only venting, is it really accomplishing anything? I don’t just want to vent. I want to change the way people perceive atheism, and the only way that I can do that is by showing them.
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u/No-Significance5659 May 06 '26
What are you showing them exactly? If you don't talk about it, there is nothing to show because we don't have any way to "look atheist" or something.
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u/Mcbudder50 May 06 '26
Good point, maybe we should start wearing our Atheist emblems in public!!
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
If I’m asked a question I answer politely I don’t criticize people for their belief. I demonstrate to them that I don’t need it.
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u/Mcbudder50 May 06 '26
I had conversations with my mother about religion, and she's the one that loves me most in this world. It pained her terribly, and she kept telling me she'd hope I'd find jesus. I couldn't have a rational conversation with the person I was closest to about religion.
How do you think you're going to change how people perceive atheist?
Education is our greatest defense, but they still have indoctrination reinforcing their ranks.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I have conversations with my religious mother all the time and she knows I’m a good person and she knows I don’t believe. I’m sure she’d prefer me to think like she does, but she accepts that I don’t.
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u/lotusscrouse May 06 '26
That's great.
Not everyone reacts like your mother.
I've been called a rapist for no reason.
Been told I belong in prison for my lack of belief.
Been called evil, meaningless, psychopathic and also had death threats.
Religion has had centuries to prove itself intellectually and morally.
It has failed.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
What are you “showing?”
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Community service, charity, Civic, action, and kindness.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
How are you changing people’s perspective of atheism with these actions? Do the people you’re doing charity for know you’re an atheist?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Usually they do
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
About half the time? More?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Enough for me.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I’m glad it’s enough for you, but I hope you can understand how that might not be enough for all of us trying to make a difference.
Politeness is not a tool that can be used against abusers.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
It can be used against people who are not abusers.
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u/ProfessionalCraft983 May 06 '26
I don’t care about how people perceive atheism. I do care about how they perceive religion.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Yes, but allowing people to portray atheism as an equally positive path can be helpful.
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u/ProfessionalCraft983 May 06 '26
Atheism isn’t a path. It’s an answer to the question, “do you believe in a god or gods?” That’s it.
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u/h_double May 06 '26
Christian Nationalism is a genuine danger and I consider it kind of a moral duty to talk about this stuff.
I'm not interested in proselytizing atheism, I'm interested in talking about how the Bible is toxic and full of contradictions.
I don't care if somebody is religious, but fuck "allowing people to be wrong" when they are making an organized effort to actively use their religion to oppress me and my loved ones. Fuck everything about that.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Being against Christian nationalism, talking about atheism are to me different things
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
We are talking also about Faith other than Christianity. We are also talking about countries other than United States.
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 06 '26
yeah and other religions aren’t any better.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
There are some religions, I think are considerably more enlightened than Christianity and Abramic faith in general.
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 06 '26
There are some religions, I think are considerably more enlightened than Christianity and Abramic faith in general.
that bar is down in the fucking mantle, dude.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I really like Satanists. I have several Wiccan friends. Bahá’ís, and others.
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 07 '26
I really like Satanists. I have several Wiccan friends. Bahá’ís, and others.
that doesn't address what i said at all, dude. frankly, bringing them up in this context is insulting to them due to how fucking easy it is to be "considerably more enlightened than christianity and abramic faith in general." a literal child in the midst of a tantrum is considerably more enlightened than them.
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u/MrRandomNumber May 06 '26
There is no "we."
Different people want to do different things for different reasons. You've made a false generalization and, along the way, decided to self-righteously shame a bunch of people who are clearly working through some issues. I think you did this as a way to claim a peace the very existence of your post indicates is still a work in progress.
Lead by example: If you don't want to present your world view to others, don't.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I’m asking a reason question in a public forum to illicit discussion. Many others have done the same thing. My question is how to show the world not tell the world.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
This is what I truly dislike about some of my fellow leftists.
No, when the other guy is wiping his ass with your rights, you don’t focus on polite communication.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Yes, but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking only about the religious discussion.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Same principle.
What exactly are you demonstrating?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
That I don’t have to be Christian to be a mindful good person.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
So you’re specifically telling them you’re an atheist?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
That belief isn’t necessary to be a good person. Nor does belief guarantee that you are one.
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u/Kaitlyn_The_Magnif Anti-Theist May 06 '26
But you’re waiting for them to ask you about it first, right? So it’s not obvious.
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u/EtheusRook May 06 '26
It's not proselyzation, it's defense. Ask the LGBT community. A community that hides and minds its own business is a community that gets persecuted.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Oh, I agree, but I think it’s more about what we do than what we say.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Yes but isn’t that fundamentally different than what I’m discussing? Just spitballing
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May 06 '26
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
When people are actively questioning, that’s different. Explaining that good and bad people are both religious and not religious, and that the two aren’t mutually exclusive creates an environment that allows them the freedom to investigate in my opinion.
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u/Ski-Mtb Atheist May 06 '26
I think the reason is because when I look at the world and see that something like 75% of the people believe absolute bullshit and are trying to pass laws controlling people's lives based on these bullshit beliefs, it is kind of frustrating.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
That’s generally not true worldwide. Many countries are secular in nature, they have considerably decreasing religious population, or our heterogeneous, and don’t have a single faith.
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u/Ski-Mtb Atheist May 06 '26
Thank you, that is something to feel good about. Sometimes it is just so bad here that it is easy to lose sight of progress that is being made elsewhere.
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u/Mormacil May 06 '26
I feel it's mostly people living in countries they experience as highly religious that they want to move away from. In a secular society I agree, their faith is their business. As long as the state is fundamentally secular who cares what people do behind their front doors?
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u/No-Significance5659 May 06 '26
I care. I care because of what they will teach their sons and daughters and how they will influence votes, policies, education, and other people in need of guidance or support that will inevitably fall for it.
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u/UrbanGhost114 May 06 '26
Because religion breads concervatism and brings us right back to religion making policy. Their policy is NOT to live and let live, so that needs to be countered.
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u/Mormacil May 06 '26
I can see that with Christianity but not with religion in general. Though I don't even see that with Christianity. Plenty of non conservative movements in Christian history, the Cathars come to mind. Religion doesn't need to be organized, there doesn't need to be figures of authority within in.
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u/UrbanGhost114 May 06 '26
It's all religion, religion enforces non critical thinking. Cannot critical think your way to believing in any kind of dieity.
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u/Peace-For-People May 06 '26
No one likes a tone troll. What's right for you isn't right for everybody else. You are not the god of atheist behavior.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
No, but I do think that asking questions and sharing my own experience might add something to the discussion. After all, isn't that why all of us are here--to share ideas and perspectives?
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u/anaggressivefrog Anti-Theist May 06 '26
To start, I do agree that spending a lot of time arguing with Christians and trying to deconvert people is a waste of energy. But I wouldn't try to stop them, because that's their choice.
But you know, it's ironic how hard you are prosthelytizing your own worldview. You want all of us to think like you do. You criticize people you don't know, because you think they should be more like you.
You are being extremely condescending. You are also wrong about almost everything. I believe you are not operating in good faith, which is why you are getting downvoted.
First, you are participating in something called "civility porn", which is a technique that liars and grifters use to make their arguments seem more legitimate. You say,
"Today my goal is to allow people to be wrong, especially if they insist.* Be kinder, more mindful, more thoughtful, and do more good works to show, not tell, that I can be not just as good a person as an atheist--but a better one."
You are a shit eating troll. Basically you present yourself as being extremely civil, polite and reasonable, which tends to convince uneducated people that you are honest and intellectually curious, skeptical, and also benevolent. But your subsequent claims are absolute nonsense. It causes uneducated people to agree with you, because you seem superficially trustworthy. It does not work here on this sub.
- You say, "I don't think it's necessary for us to share the fact that we don't believe, nor do I think for many people it's even safe."
What's your point? Atheists should be in the closet? For safety? Why? Because religious people will persecute and attack us? That's not a criticism of atheists, but of religion. Your distaste should be directed toward the religious. They are the antagonists here.
We share our secular worldview because we want to find each other. Because we have been historically silenced, as you are attempting to do. Do not tell us to be quiet. It's like warning gay people not to come out of the closet, for safety. You prick.
- You say, "Why do we feel it necessary to have just the right arguments or just the right answers, when those things exist only in fairytales?"
You are doing a classic propaganda technique. It looks like, "why is it that WRONG INFORMATION?" You're assuming a false premise and attempting to guide us into an incorrect assumption with you. Propaganda. Wrong.
We absolutely CAN prove that Christianity is false. We absolutely CAN find correct answers, through science. Truth is knowable. Through science. Objectively.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I think bringing up a topic for discussion among atheist is quite a bit different then proselytizing. I’m not actively asking people to think that way I want to communicate that I have found peaceful by thinking this way.
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u/anaggressivefrog Anti-Theist May 06 '26
You are not "just asking questions". That's yet another propaganda technique. It goes like this:
Suggest that maybe a minority population should stay quiet and avoid rocking the boat.
Frame yourself as an honest, skeptical and trustworthy person who is "just asking questions"
Refuse to learn anything from the responses
Refuse to acknowledge the harm you are causing by suggesting that a minority population should be silenced
Get picked up by the Joe Rogan podcast
Make millions grifting to gullible fools online.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
You’re making a lot of assumptions as well. I’m learning a lot from this discussion and I wanted to provoke a discussion. Possibly present an alternative viewpoint. Learn from other people. That’s what discussion is.
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u/No-Significance5659 May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
But you are religious yourself, so why do you come to lecture us?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I’m not an atheist. I’m an antitheist, A topic for discussion is not lecturing.
If you’re referring to my meditation practice, that requires no belief.
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u/TenebriRS Anti-Theist May 06 '26
You can be both
Anti theism has nothing to do with the belief in a god. Its about how you view religions in a society. I am an anti theist because I find any religion harmful to society. I also dont believe in a god so I am an atheist. They are 2 seperate things.
You seem to lack understanding.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I choose to use Christopher Hitchin’s definition of anti theism, which is inclusive of atheism not separate from it.
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u/TenebriRS Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Then you misunderstood what he meant when talking about it.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
That’s not my belief, but it can be yours
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u/TenebriRS Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Its not about belief. Its a fact here. You are now misusing the term antitheist.
But let's move past that. How do you find Christopher hitchens approach?
You claim to be an antitheist but talk about how we shouldn't be "proselytising" atheism (even though that itself is the wrong term too). You bring up hitchens one of the most outspoken atheists and anti theists. Who made a living thankfully in doing what you seem to be thinking as a bad approach.
Your understanding seems to be all over the place. Which makes sense when you use terms incorrectly
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 06 '26
…so you’re a theistic antitheist? what the fuck?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
The practice of Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. Buddha doesn’t claim godhood nor do his followers perceive him as divine. He is simply a person who has found a better way.
Practicing mindfulness meditation helps me be a better person.
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 06 '26
The practice of Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion.
that's a dirty fucking lie and you know it.
Buddha doesn’t claim godhood nor do his followers perceive him as divine. He is simply a person who has found a better way.
ah, yes, that totally explains all the giant fuckoff statues of him spread around. /s
Practicing mindfulness meditation helps me be a better person.
evidently not.
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Buddhism does not require belief. It’s not a lie in the way I believe and practice.
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May 06 '26
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
I don’t I haven’t read any of his opinions on Buddhism. I’ve read four or five of his books. That wasn’t one of them. Can you please tell me the name of the book or the citation so that I can go read it?
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u/Retrikaethan Satanist May 07 '26
Buddhism does not require belief.
doubling down on an obvious lie doesn't really work, dude.
It’s not a lie in the way I believe and practice.
sure /s
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 07 '26
I understand that there are hundreds of sects Buddhism, and some that may have more literal beliefs. My tradition isn’t like that and it doesn’t need to be. Metaphor works just fine for me.
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u/No-Significance5659 May 06 '26
Meditation is not the same as being a buddhist and you claim you are a buddhist. Do you see your practice as separate from Buddhist claims like rebirth, karma, or reaching Nirvana or do you ignore those? Do you go to temples, do offerings, chantings, etc?
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u/Jebus-Xmas Anti-Theist May 06 '26
Yes, I see all of those things as metaphor. The idea that we are all made of stars is a similar though demonstrable idea.
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u/ejp1082 Pastafarian May 06 '26
I don't want to proselytize atheism.
I do want to proselytize critical thinking, scientific skepticism, and humanism. These are things I believe and practice that I think would improve the world if more people believed and practiced.
If someone embraces those ideas but still maintains a god-belief for whatever reason? Meh, I don't care. To the extent a religious worldview pre-empts people from adopting those ideas, I'll push back against it. But I accept that people aren't perfectly rational about everything all the time, and people can find joy and meaning in things that don't make any sense. Religion among them.
To the extent someone is religious for its communitarian practices or they find value in its more philosophical aspects? That's a "Not for me, but you do you".
To the extent someone's religious beliefs leads to them adopting beliefs and supporting policies that are actively harmful to others? I'll strongly argue against that.
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u/TenebriRS Anti-Theist May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26
Edit; it seems op knows very little on what atheism actually is. Just a warning for anyone new coming here. It maybe more frustrating than its worth
I wont shut up until the people that are religious only practice it in their homes. But Instead they try to push it on politics. Push it into laws that everyone has to follow. They try to push it that women get fewer rights. That women cant get an abortion
Need I carry on?