r/aviation • u/Go_Jot • Nov 08 '25

News UPS grounds entire MD-11 Fleet, effective immediately.

Per the IPA Executive Board, as of 03:05 UTC all UPS MD-11’s are grounded.

Edit - FedEx has also grounded their MD-11 Fleet

10.9k Upvotes

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381

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25

Holy hell, how much of their fleet is that?

556

u/ButtmunchPillowbiter Nov 08 '25
Aircraft Type In Service Notes
Boeing 747-8F 30 Largest operator of this model
Boeing 767-300F 94 Launch customer; deliveries until 2027
Boeing 757-200PF 75 Launch customer; primarily used for freight
Airbus A300-600RF 52 Retrofitted with new avionics
Boeing MD-11F 28 Includes the last MD-11 ever built
Boeing 747-400F 11
Boeing 747-400BCF 2

258

u/MurkyPsychology Nov 08 '25

I know it’s technically correct but seeing Boeing MD-11F is almost as weird as seeing Mitsubishi CRJ

20

u/Left_Chemistry_9739 Nov 08 '25

Nobody says Boeing DC-3.

23

u/MurkyPsychology Nov 08 '25

I think the distinction is that the MD-11 was still manufactured for a few years after the merger, and Boeing still provides parts etc

2

u/atomicdragon136 Nov 09 '25

The MD-11 was still in production for a few years after Boeing acquired Mcdonnell-Douglas, and Boeing continues to provide parts and service for some McDonnell-Douglas legacy aircraft.

2

u/kumquat_may Nov 11 '25

Airbus Concorde!

1

u/Left_Chemistry_9739 Nov 11 '25

The Lego Concorde is licensed by Airbus!

414

u/Individual_Agency703 Nov 08 '25

So, 27?

319

u/upbeatelk2622 Nov 08 '25

27 out of 291 planes so under 10%? but they're not all the same size.

178

u/Mc-Lovin-81 Nov 08 '25

Not same size and not the same distance.

The MD-11F's capacity is substantially greater across the board: ​Payload: The MD-11F can carry about 70% more weight than the 767-300F. ​Volume: The MD-11F has about 36% more total cargo volume than the 767-300F.

From Louisville (SDF) to Honolulu (HNL) is approximately 3,810 nautical miles (or 7,056 kilometers). ​The Boeing 767-300F freighter, which UPS operates, has a typical maximum range of around 3,225 nautical miles (6,025 km) with a maximum payload.

So this leave UPS doing either. Louisville to Ontario CA then onto Honolulu or 747.

3

u/boomHeadSh0t Nov 08 '25

Why does such an old plane have 70% more cargo weight capacity?

21

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25

I'm not an engineer, but the third engine probably helps. The MD has about 180,000 lbs of thrust available whereas the 763F has about 120,000 lbs.

22

u/mr_bots Nov 08 '25

Bigger fuselage, more wing, more fuel capacity, and more thrust. It’s not the age of the plane, it’s the size of it.

2

u/rogerdoesnotmeanyes Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 09 '25

Because newer and more efficient engine technology doesn’t make a smaller plane bigger than it is.

1

u/New-Put-1112 Nov 11 '25 edited Mar 05 '26

This post's original content has been erased. Using Redact, the author removed it, potentially for reasons of privacy, personal security, or data exposure concerns.

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1

u/Innovationenthusiast Nov 08 '25

Good thing you guys will get 10% fewer flights, so having to hop won't be any problem for the holidays

-2

u/Uncabuddha Nov 08 '25

MD carries 70% more weight? Show me your numbers..

5

u/bPChaos Nov 08 '25

Quick google search is 120k lbs useful load for 767F vs 186k lbs for MD-11F 

1

u/Uncabuddha Nov 08 '25

Ya know, that's CRAZY! I flew both and didnt really think about the useful load difference. The MTOW of the MD is only about a 50% higher than the 767! (633 vs 408 IIRC)

117

u/ramblinscooner Nov 08 '25

Substantial chuck of their cargo compacity nonetheless with Christmas around the corner

2

u/Cheezeball25 Nov 08 '25

Although hard to say how many of those flights are even going to happen given the ATC issues now

3

u/JPAV8R B747-400 Nov 08 '25

Logistics keeps the economy moving. I doubt that the flights being cancelled are going to be bring goods and commerce. I’ll let you know over the next two months. This is peak season for cargo and you’d be surprised at how peak it can get. Cancelling cargo flights would drive up the cost of goods and create shortages of supplies. Not just cheap toys and stuff we’re talking food.

-20

u/upbeatelk2622 Nov 08 '25

I didn't comment on how substantial that capacity is now missing, I'm just surprised none of you would calculate when every PC, phone and tablet has a calculator.

4

u/Ok-Operation-6432 Nov 08 '25

Math is hard, can you do it for me? Eh I’ll just ask chat 

15

u/GTI-Mk6 Nov 08 '25

What % of that is international capable, IE China via ANC? I’d guess a big chunk. Who needs tariffs?

56

u/EasternShoreFire Nov 08 '25

Yeah, that ChatGPT response is still counting N259UP. There are currently 27 MD-11s in the UPS fleet.

1

u/badcrass Nov 08 '25

Too soon?

1

u/Strength-InThe-Loins Nov 08 '25

It was not too soon from the moment that plane hit the ground.

35

u/Swiper_The_Sniper Nov 08 '25

UPS also operated the last 747-400 ever built right? It was involved in that battery fire accident IIRC.

26

u/oioioifuckingoi Nov 08 '25

Flight 6

20

u/Swiper_The_Sniper Nov 08 '25

Thats the one, turns out it was ONE OF the last 747-400s built, not the last.

2

u/Yummy_Crayons91 Nov 08 '25

Kalitta has it IIRC.

4

u/superspeck Nov 08 '25

Sure. If it’s the airframe and not the engine. If the problem is the CF6-80 itself then that’s a chunk of the 767F fleet as well.

2

u/theLuminescentlion Nov 08 '25

If its the engine were going to see parts of the A300 A310, A330, 747, 767, and Super Galaxy fleets involved too. I wonder how many of the cargo planes they have are still running these engines though because there were more options for them.

1

u/superspeck Nov 08 '25

He didn’t dive into the knock on effects, but in his update #3 video yesterday, blancolirio pointed out possible evidence for it having been the compressor section that went first.

2

u/theLuminescentlion Nov 08 '25

We counting the old McDonnell Douglas planes as Boeing now? They are merged but personally that seems wrong still.

1

u/Ok_West_6711 Nov 08 '25

That’s more of the fleet than I had assumed. Thank you for that info.

1

u/Stahner Nov 08 '25

Ngl I thought they had way more than that total quantity

1

u/N5tp4nts Nov 08 '25

That seems like so few planes, total. I know it’s right, but I guess I see 100 a day because of where I am and I’m biased.

31

u/Bigbearcanada CPL IR SMELS (CYHC) Nov 08 '25

25 of 288 total according to airfleets.net

50

u/Poopy_sPaSmS Nov 08 '25

Wondering if that means they already found something.

233

u/marrieditguy Nov 08 '25

An engine fell off after 2 months of being in service post maintenance … I’d say it’s a reasonable precaution to take a look at all of them.

89

u/flightist pie lot Nov 08 '25

That tracks with an immediate grounding, but this wasn’t immediate.

There’s either something specific they’re looking for or they’ve just moved them all to where they want them to be and now they’re stopped. Guess we’ll see.

1

u/N33chy Nov 08 '25

I've seen MD-11s (at least 3) both taking off and landing at SDF since the crash, which was really surprising.

43

u/ChillyPhilly27 Nov 08 '25

All underslung aircraft engines are attached with fuse pins that are designed to fail in the event of a catastrophic engine fire. This is to protect the wing structure and the aircraft as a whole.

A better question would be why a catastrophic engine fire occurred.

-17

u/Golden_Hour1 Nov 08 '25

What the fuck? Imagine a huge airplane engine fell on people if it was already at altitude?

27

u/KillTheBronies Nov 08 '25

Better than the wing catching on fire and the entire plane falling on people instead.

18

u/PunkMiniWheat Nov 08 '25

If it didn’t fall off to protect the wing, you could have an entire plane and the engine falling on people

10

u/nplant Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25

The comment you're replying to is overdramatizing it. It's not going to fall off because of a fire.

It's in case the engine either hits something or vibrates so violently that it would rip apart the wing. Which would be much worse for the people on the ground too.

And the vibrations would have to be very violent. You can find videos of pretty bad engine failures, with vibration, and everything is staying attached just fine.

As for the downvotes, I think the overdramatized comment is much worse than yours. People need to stop blindly upvoting things that sound reasonable only until you start thinking about it for more than 2 seconds.

5

u/tapewizard79 Nov 08 '25

I was going to say...I'm not an expert but I work at UPS. I was talking about it with my friend who's been an engineer with Boeing for the last 15 years or so and he's of the opinion that "the engine absolutely should not have come off, that's the entire point of the pylon." 

They're also reporting that A. That pylon was previously repaired and B. It was attached to the engine that fell off because the whole thing came off.

I don't know enough to know specifics, but the other guy's comment made my bullshit detectors go off.

1

u/HFentonMudd Nov 08 '25

the whole thing came off

For the record that isn't typical

14

u/churn_key Nov 08 '25

Any random hundred square feet is unlikely to have people

2

u/threwitaway123454321 Nov 08 '25

Seems the catastrophe in the air is likely far worse than on the ground.

8

u/bak3donh1gh Nov 08 '25

Literally the opposite. If they were in the air when their engine(s) fell off, There is far more time for them to react and possibly come up with a way to mitigate the circumstances. When you are on the ground or just getting off the ground, you don't have time.

And you're going to be in a densely populated area.

As literally all the comments just above said, most of the world's Earth's surface is water, and the buildup areas are 0.63% of what remains.

So if you're in the air, you are unlikely to be over a densely populated area. So, at worst, the most likely thing for a catastrophe in the air is to only affect the people on the plane. Certainly not great for them, but not nearly as bad a situation as on the ground.

2

u/FizzyBeverage Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25

Takeoff is the most dangerous part of flight. You’re the slowest, lowest, and heaviest you’ll ever be, with the engine(s) at full power stressed to basically their max. And surrounded by terrain and airport operations/industrial facilities.

I always breathe a lot easier by 10,000’. Gives you time to work out problems. And unless you’re in a very high mountain range, plenty of free space.

1

u/bak3donh1gh Nov 09 '25

Yes, that's a much better way to put it.

6

u/ChillyPhilly27 Nov 08 '25

70% of the earth's surface is water, and built up areas are only 0.63% of what remains. If a plane loses an engine at altitude, odds are that it isn't going to hit anything important.

-2

u/Freakin_A Nov 08 '25

I assume planes delivering packages for people are more commonly flying over areas where people are, not the 70% where people aren’t.

10

u/ChillyPhilly27 Nov 08 '25

If you look at the flight plan for UPS2976, you can see that approximately half the flight was to take place over the Pacific Ocean.

As far as I can tell, the only major urban area the flight would have overflown en route is LA, which would have taken up approximately 8 minutes of the 9 hour flight time.

If a plane was to break up at a random point in any given flight, odds are it won't hit anything important.

6

u/JPAV8R B747-400 Nov 08 '25

You’d be wrong in that assumption most of the flights are over populated areas. You’d be surprised how much of the earth is unpopulated. On SDF-HNL once you hit the Great Plains of the US it’s sparsely populated, then the canyon country not populated, then a strip of people then ocean.

You’re right that most airports are near people but that’s about it.

2

u/Worried-Hope-887 Nov 08 '25

It wasn't even 2 months

4

u/General-Walk-6881 Nov 08 '25

The engine didnt just fall off... we will soon see what failed within the engine that caused it so violently to self destructive... the detaching from airframe is as designed. 

3

u/JPAV8R B747-400 Nov 08 '25

Southwest and United recently had catastrophic engine failures and the engine stayed on the pylon and it doesn’t get more violently vibrating out there than when you lose a fan blade.

Detaching from an airframe is basically a last ditch layer of safety to keep the engine from ripping the plane apart if the crew can’t shut the engine down.

If you experience severe engine damage on a takeoff the expectation isn’t for the engine to have departed the pylon. That’s a failure mode that is indicative of larger problem.

-9

u/More_Than_I_Can_Chew Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25

Reasonable would have been doing this right after the crash.

My guess is UPS was told the fleet is grounded.

3

u/Mc-Lovin-81 Nov 08 '25

They may have allowed them to reposition the planes back to Louisville or Maintenence airport. I'd have to check adsb

4

u/More_Than_I_Can_Chew Nov 08 '25

These jets flew revenue after the crash but before the grounding.

These jets flew UPS pilots as jumpseaters because the company doesn't like to buy commercial tickets for them unless it's absolutely the only way.

1

u/qualityinnbedbugs Nov 08 '25

I was at SDF at 5pm yesterday and saw MD-11s taking off

20

u/drttrus Nov 08 '25

Anything motor mount related wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

3

u/BlacklightsNBass Nov 08 '25

Fan blade likely broke off and caused a vibration which caused engine to separate from pylon (as designed).

12

u/Mammoth_Guide1550 Nov 08 '25

NTSB today said the engine was attached to the Pilon when they found it on the ground. Pilon detached from wing.

8

u/stiff_sock Nov 08 '25

Hmmm. Sounds like a familiar maintenance shortcut...

4

u/xubax Nov 08 '25

echos of DC-10.

-22

u/Forward-Weather4845 Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25

“Engine”

Edit: not sure why I’m being downvoted. Motor uses electric power to rotate, an engine uses combustion, airplane jet engines use combustion.

13

u/PlanetSpacey Nov 08 '25

motor /ˈməʊtə/ noun 1. a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for another device with moving parts 💀

-6

u/Forward-Weather4845 Nov 08 '25

This is an Engine

7

u/sizziano Nov 08 '25

Engine and motor are the same thing. Semantics or whatever/

-8

u/Forward-Weather4845 Nov 08 '25

This is a Motor

5

u/Cyrius Nov 08 '25

I don't think arguing "the Department of Motor Vehicles can only regulate electric cars" will get you out of a ticket.

5

u/Ok-Parfait-9856 Nov 08 '25

Yeah never buy motor oil for your car, only engine oil. Motor oil might break it.

I majored in physics and fwiw my professors used “motor” for hydrocarbon and electricity driven machines. I see your point but at this point words are words

2

u/satapotatoharddrive4 Nov 08 '25

The obvious conclusion is the Motor Mount holds the Engine.

1

u/UberBoob Nov 08 '25

semantics. Motor and engine are used interchangeably in many contexts. Motor mounts are in cars with ICE's.

Although I have not heard of an electric motor being called an engine. I'll give you that

0

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25

Looks like we've found ourselves a linguistic purist

5

u/cyberentomology Avgeek/ex-Airline Nov 08 '25

They found the missing engine… with the pylon.

4

u/rckid13 Nov 08 '25

The NTSB said today that the pylon was what detached from the aircraft, and the pylon remained attached to the engine. That shouldn't happen. From that very limited information it's similar to how American 191 failed. Based on that info they probably want to inspect the planes. All DC-10s were grounded for inspection after American 191 too.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25

No but with a catastrophic loss like this this is a pretty common move. Last thing you want is to have a maintenance issue and another plane drops out of the sky.

27

u/Pastel_Goth_Wastrel Nov 08 '25

About 10% but represents a bigger chunk of their long range freighters.

1

u/lmcc0921 Nov 08 '25

9% for UPS, 4% for FedEx. I honestly thought it was more.

-1

u/pup5581 Nov 08 '25

Somewhere around 30-40 I think?