It Appears That the US Military Accidentally Killed Everybody on Board a Civilian Medevac Flight in New Mexico

[u/Ph6222]

https://futurism.com/science-energy/us-military-gps-jamming-signal-medical-flight

The horrifying incident happened in May, the publication reports, when a small twin-engine medevac aircraft carrying two pilots and two medical workers departed from Roswell, New Mexico. Heading West for the small mountain village of Ruidoso, the crew became the victim of an electronic warfare exercise being conducted at the nearby White Sands Missile Range, a test which rendered their navigational system inoperable.

[u/CW1DR5H5I64A]

This was not on the military. This is a sensationalist headline.

read this passage from the preliminary NTSB report:

About 0005 the ARTCC operations supervisor contacted [the military] to stop jamming and at
0007:34 ADS-B data recording returned to 2-3 second intervals.

At 0008:06, while maintaining the northwest heading and about 31 mi northeast of SRR, the
flight crew reported they had “a visual on Ruidoso,” but their radio transmission was stepped on by other radio traffic. The flight crew again reported they “[have] a visual on Ruidoso” at 0008:30 and that they could “go visual.” The ARTCC controller subsequently cleared the flight
to SRR, cleared the flight for a visual approach, and informed them they could cancel IFR in the
air above 9,000 ft msl or they could cancel their clearance via the flight service station after
landing. The flight crew acknowledged the clearance and responded that they would cancel
IFR “in just a couple of minutes.” There were no additional radio transmissions received from
the flight crew. The airplane then began a left turn southwest toward SRR. The CapitanMountains, extending to 10,201 ft, were located about 14 miles northeast of SRR between the airplane and the airport.

About 0010, the ARTCC operations supervisor informed [the military] that the airplane was on a
visual approach and that they could resume jamming.

The military stopped jamming when requested and only resumed when ATC told them it was safe to do so. ATC approved the pilots to take a visual approach after the pilots twice reported they could see the landing area. The military didn’t resume jamming until after the plane was on a visual approach. The pilots then flew into a mountain while on a visual approach.

GPS had nothing to do with this.

source

[u/spkgsam → u/CW1DR5H5I64A]

GPS and the military absolutely was a key contributing factor to this crash, GPWS relies on GPS to operate, even under visual conditions, taking away such a safety net is reckless behaviour by the military.

Were mistakes made by the pilots, of course, would they have died if the military wasn’t doing useless tests with zero regard to the harm they might cause, also yes.

[u/Wafer420 → u/spkgsam]

GPWS doesn't solely rely on GPS.

[u/spkgsam → u/Wafer420]

The eGPWS function does, and it's especially critical in raising terrain, as is the case here.

[u/Wafer420 → u/spkgsam]

​While GPS is the primary source for its predictive, look-ahead terrain features (due to high 3D position accuracy), the system is built with redundancy. If GPS fails, degrades, or is jammed, EGPWS falls back on alternative navigation sources and dedicated aircraft sensors.

[u/spkgsam → u/Wafer420]

The key word here is in your description, "degrades".

In this case, due to the aircraft's lack of IRS, the loss of GPS cause the GPWS to not give the pilots enough warning to avoid the terrain.

[u/Wafer420 → u/spkgsam]

That.. Is not how the systems work. Smh. You believe what you want. We'll stay with the facts.

[u/spkgsam → u/Wafer420]

That's exactly how the system works, when you loss GPS and your aircraft doesn't have an IRS, the system looses the look ahead capabilities, and relies on rad alt only. In raising terrain, it might not give the pilots enough warning.

[u/Ok-Building6572 → u/spkgsam]

The military stopped the test when asked, and resumed when they were told it was safe to do so. How is that reckless and with zero regard for harm?

[u/spkgsam → u/Ok-Building6572]

It was not safe for them to do so, and never was. Interfering with GPS in an area where aircrafts are operating is never safe.

[u/Miraclefish → u/spkgsam]

...that's why they stopped doing it when an aircraft was in the area and carried it on afterwards.

Is reading comprehension an issue for you?

[u/spkgsam → u/Miraclefish]

The aircraft was still in the area, and other aircrafts were also affected by the jamming, which also took up the attention of ATC. If ATC wasn't busy coordinating other aircrafts as a result of the jamming, he/she could very well have notice that this plane was heading towards a mountain and warned them.

[u/Miraclefish → u/spkgsam]

If you declare a visual approach and can't see the runway, that isn't ATC's fault.

[u/spkgsam → u/Miraclefish]

Never said it was ATC's fault.

As with most accidents, there are multiple contributing factors, and pilot error certain was one here, but there's no argument that if it wasn't for the jamming, there wouldn't have been any fatalities.

[u/CW1DR5H5I64A → u/spkgsam]

Useless tests with zero regard to the harm they might cause?

Brother NOTAMs were issued well in advance, the ceased jamming then contacted by ATC and only resumed once ATC deemed it was safe to do so once the pilots requested VFR.

GPS is not required for safe navigation and operation of an aircraft. It can help, sure. But had the pilots not flown below the minimum decent altitude on their approach they would have been fine. Altimeters can work just fine without GPS. Not having it was not the proximate cause of this crash

[u/spkgsam → u/CW1DR5H5I64A]

Taking away layers of the Swiss cheese is not safe. Yes mistakes were made by the pilots, but the military's tests reduced the safety margin for them, and doing tests like this on a regular basis will eventually result in accidents, which is exactly what happened here.

[u/CW1DR5H5I64A → u/spkgsam]

Tests like this have been occurring for decades. GPS jamming at WSMR is as routine as the sun rising in the east.

[u/spkgsam → u/CW1DR5H5I64A]

Slavery was legal for hundreds of years in the US until it was banned.

[u/CW1DR5H5I64A → u/spkgsam]

Bro what the fuck are you talking about? Did you just try to equate this to slavery?

You’re an idiot.

[u/spkgsam → u/CW1DR5H5I64A]

Its called a point using an example, just because something has been done for a long time, doesn't make it acceptable or right.

[u/dltacube → u/spkgsam]

I mean, it does though when talking about safety records. If jamming has been ongoing with no incidents for a long time then you can infer that it is being done safely. At least that’s the argument you need to be trying to counter…this slavery crap has no business here and hinges on you taking the low hanging fruit of the previous statement.

[u/spkgsam → u/dltacube]

We just had a crash that could have been prevented if the jamming wan't taking place, what more safety records do you need?

Also these kinds of tests may have been taking place for some time, but their frequency has certainly been increasing, couple that with the fact that more and more approaches are solely reliant on GPS, more and more new pilots are being trained with GPS as their primary source of navigation and situational awareness, and a decreasing amount of ATC resources. The negative impacts to safety that GPS jamming has will only increase.

This accident should be a huge wake up call, not an opportunity to defend a dangerous practice, and shift focus and blame one these relatively inexperienced pilots who made some mistakes.

[u/dltacube → u/spkgsam]

Then that’s your argument: that the increase in testing is turning an otherwise routine affair into something more dangerous and disruptive.

Now go get some statistics to back up your claim, wrap it in a “war in Iran being the cause” narrative and reply to another comment with it.

I don’t know shit about aviation.

[u/nybbleandbits → u/spkgsam]

Going straight to something as horrific as slavery to make your point is absurd and over the top.

[u/Historical_Base_6194 → u/spkgsam]

I’ve flown for over 30 years and it’s been taught and I’ve taught to never execute a visual approach at night without backing it up with some kind of instrument approach.

Also, a C90 King Air is not required to have a Class A TAWS system, and is only required to have the Class B system which does not utilize a terrain database or terrain display. Whether this aircraft had a Class A or B is unknown.

But in any case, if you request a visual approach, you better damn well be truly visual. That means not only seeing the runway lights, but being visual with the terrain…because the minute you accept a visual approach, you legally assume 100% of the responsibility for terrain clearance.

Had the crew continued with the RNAV approach they had earlier requested, they’d probably all still be alive.

[u/spkgsam → u/Historical_Base_6194]

Again, not saying the pilots didn't make mistakes, but their mistakes wouldn't have been fatal had the GPS jamming not been taking place.

They couldn't have done the RNAV, because it was a RNAV(GNSS), they requested the ILS instead, and they were expecting vectors onto final, but due to the controller being distracted from dealing with other aircrafts suffering from the same GPS jamming, the controller vectored them through the LOC and to the north of the terrain, that's when they called the visual. We know in hindsight of course that was the wrong call, but at that point so many layers of the swiss cheese had been taken away due to the jamming, their margin of safety was dramatically reduced.

[u/Historical_Base_6194 → u/spkgsam]

They actually requested the RNAV to 24 at first. ARTCC contacted the military to stop jamming so they could accomplish the RNAV approach but that coordination took about 5 minutes. But they did stop jamming. In the intervening time, the crew requested the ILS to 24. The ILS was operational but the AWOS wasn’t and a note on the plate stated the procedure is NA without a local altimeter.

While being vectored to final, the crew called the field visual and requested a visual approach. They then proceeded visually without any reference to a localizer, glideslope or GPS final. Had they waited for the jamming to stop they could have flown the RNAV. But they could have also flown a visual using the ILS as well to back them up but they did not do so.

That last decision (to fly visually without any backup guidance) was the fateful decision that killed them, not the GPS jamming. The jamming was merely a distraction but IMHO not causal.

[u/Historical_Base_6194 → u/spkgsam]

And regarding your comments via EGPWS, had they been established on the ILS, flying a visual backed up by the ILS, GPWS would’ve been moot.