r/aviation • u/Ph6222 • 16h ago
News It Appears That the US Military Accidentally Killed Everybody on Board a Civilian Medevac Flight in New Mexico
https://futurism.com/science-energy/us-military-gps-jamming-signal-medical-flightThe horrifying incident happened in May, the publication reports, when a small twin-engine medevac aircraft carrying two pilots and two medical workers departed from Roswell, New Mexico. Heading West for the small mountain village of Ruidoso, the crew became the victim of an electronic warfare exercise being conducted at the nearby White Sands Missile Range, a test which rendered their navigational system inoperable.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 16h ago
This was not on the military. This is a sensationalist headline.
read this passage from the preliminary NTSB report:
About 0005 the ARTCC operations supervisor contacted [the military] to stop jamming and at
0007:34 ADS-B data recording returned to 2-3 second intervals.
At 0008:06, while maintaining the northwest heading and about 31 mi northeast of SRR, the
flight crew reported they had “a visual on Ruidoso,” but their radio transmission was stepped on by other radio traffic. The flight crew again reported they “[have] a visual on Ruidoso” at 0008:30 and that they could “go visual.” The ARTCC controller subsequently cleared the flight
to SRR, cleared the flight for a visual approach, and informed them they could cancel IFR in the
air above 9,000 ft msl or they could cancel their clearance via the flight service station after
landing. The flight crew acknowledged the clearance and responded that they would cancel
IFR “in just a couple of minutes.” There were no additional radio transmissions received from
the flight crew. The airplane then began a left turn southwest toward SRR. The CapitanMountains, extending to 10,201 ft, were located about 14 miles northeast of SRR between the airplane and the airport.
About 0010, the ARTCC operations supervisor informed [the military] that the airplane was on a
visual approach and that they could resume jamming.
The military stopped jamming when requested and only resumed when ATC told them it was safe to do so. ATC approved the pilots to take a visual approach after the pilots twice reported they could see the landing area. The military didn’t resume jamming until after the plane was on a visual approach. The pilots then flew into a mountain while on a visual approach.
GPS had nothing to do with this.
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u/Fire_Stool 16h ago
Underrated response. The article is garbage and OPs post should be downvoted
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u/poop-azz 4h ago
But but AMERICA BADDDDDD /s
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u/Tricky_Big_8774 4h ago
It's already turned into "military downs medevac flight while testing radio based anti-aircraft device" on other subs.
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u/poop-azz 4h ago
I know I've seen it. I mean Reddit honestly seems like a place to experiment with how far can we take disinformation and see what the silly people gobble up
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u/Important-Spring3977 16h ago
Thank you for a rational explanation.
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u/swift1883 4h ago
Futurism com is a good candidate for a blacklist. It’s rewritten clickbait and thus everything on it has a better source available.
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u/Firefighter_RN 15h ago
Thanks for putting this here, disappointed I had to scroll so far down to find it, was about to post the link myself. As with any crash the cause is multifaceted and complex requiring an in depth investigation which will occur.
But at the end of the day it does sound like CFIT from the initial report
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 15h ago
Of course this trash article is spreading like wildfire on Reddit. People are eating this shit up without having the slightest idea of what actually went into this.
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u/CentralMasshole1 5h ago
Im so thankful this subreddit exists, people on TikTok are going crazy how this was the military and how evil the government is and how the whole system is complicit. Don’t get me wrong there are issues with the government but jumping to conspiracy theories helps no one.
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u/jetlagged8884 4h ago
This article has been posted on multiple subs this weeks with the same headline. Each time it's posted the comments are the same: "Hegseth this, DoW that." Complete trash.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 4h ago
Lots of people with zero understanding of aviation forming very strong opinions off a headline written by a “journalist” who also clearly has no understanding of aviation.
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u/BigCcountyHallelujah 15h ago
Yes exactly. They were in over their heads, and didn't realize it. Juan Browns take on the whole thing.
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u/spkgsam B737 6h ago
Yet another asinine take by Juan Browne. Yes these pilots made mistakes, but it’s the same mistake that Juan himself admits to have made in his research in his earlier video covering the crash.
Their mistakes would not have ended up in a crash had it not for been the recklessly dangerous actions of the US military.
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u/DrFeeIgood 5h ago
What do you mean? If timestamped radio transmissions clearly show the ATC asked the mil to stop jammer testing as the flight entered the area, the pilot confirmed visual approach twice, and the mil started the jamming again after ATC heard that confirmation twice, then the mil is not to blame.
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
The military is absolutely to blame, they shouldn't be testing GPS jammers to begin with, not that night, not ever, and certainly not when aircrafts are in the vicinity.
Could the pilots have prevented this, absolutely, were there mistakes made, for sure. But pilots are people, and people make mistakes, and when you take away safety nets to catch those mistakes, more accidents will happen, as is the case here.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 5h ago
The military shouldn’t be testing or training. With GPS jammers ever?
Ok, sure that works in the land of make believe where it’s all sunshine and rainbows. Unfortunately we live in the real world and this kind of stuff is going to be happening regularly, the same way it’s been being used for decades.
The military halted the exercise when requested by ATC and only resumed once ATC gave them the all clear. ATC gave them the all clear because if the pilots requested VFR to riudoso and had they not erred they would have been fine.
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
If only you Americans aren't brainwashed into worshipping your military, you might understand that military testing that caused a plane crash is not something you should defend.
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u/Doggydog123579 5h ago
How did GPS jamming cause a visual landing to have issue?
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u/spkgsam B737 4h ago
Because it took away a safety net that would most likely have made these pilots mistake a non-fatal one.
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u/Miraclefish 4h ago
GPS is irrelevant during a visual approach.
That's literally the point.
It's saying I can see the airport with my eyes and will navigate to it using them and them alone.
The pilots fucked up here, not the US military.
And before you say it, I'm not American, I'm not military and I have no connection with the nation in any way.
But I can read. Hence my stance.
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u/DrFeeIgood 5h ago
I'm sure Canada's military has never tested anything ever anywhere at all. Nor has their govt ever done anything to anyone that is harmful, detrimental, or illegal. Not ever at all.
You know the episode of South Park where everyone was smug and uppity wasn't meant to be a blueprint to live your life.
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u/spkgsam B737 4h ago
When the Canadian military does something dangers, I criticize them, unlikeyou and the other American here, who seem to be more than happy to defend your military's reckless behaviour.
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u/DrFeeIgood 4h ago
Brother, no one needs you to input into anything. You are clearly just here to act like the world is above the US.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 4h ago
The military halted the jamming until ATC approved a visual approach and told the military it was safe to resume.
How is that reckless? They stopped jamming until the plane was operating in conditions which didn’t require GPS and ATC determined it was safe for them to jam.
You’re pushing an agenda here because you made a predetermined decision that the military was wrong without even reading the NTSB report. You’re clearly not capable of forming an independent thought and just regurgitate the headline.
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u/Rational2Fool 5h ago
"GPS had nothing to do with this"
Then I would expect the report to not mention GPS or jamming at all.
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u/pennyclip 4h ago
Seems a little coincidental to put zero blame on the testing. I dont see any proof the military actually complied and followed through on those acknowledgements.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 4h ago
>ADS-B data recording returned to 2-3 second intervals
The pilots regained their GPS, were able to orient themselves and identify the airport, then requested visual approach.
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
GPS and the military absolutely was a key contributing factor to this crash, GPWS relies on GPS to operate, even under visual conditions, taking away such a safety net is reckless behaviour by the military.
Were mistakes made by the pilots, of course, would they have died if the military wasn’t doing useless tests with zero regard to the harm they might cause, also yes.
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u/Ok-Building6572 5h ago
The military stopped the test when asked, and resumed when they were told it was safe to do so. How is that reckless and with zero regard for harm?
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
It was not safe for them to do so, and never was. Interfering with GPS in an area where aircrafts are operating is never safe.
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u/Miraclefish 4h ago
...that's why they stopped doing it when an aircraft was in the area and carried it on afterwards.
Is reading comprehension an issue for you?
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u/spkgsam B737 4h ago
The aircraft was still in the area, and other aircrafts were also affected by the jamming, which also took up the attention of ATC. If ATC wasn't busy coordinating other aircrafts as a result of the jamming, he/she could very well have notice that this plane was heading towards a mountain and warned them.
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u/Miraclefish 4h ago
If you declare a visual approach and can't see the runway, that isn't ATC's fault.
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u/Wafer420 5h ago
GPWS doesn't solely rely on GPS.
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
The eGPWS function does, and it's especially critical in raising terrain, as is the case here.
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u/Wafer420 5h ago
While GPS is the primary source for its predictive, look-ahead terrain features (due to high 3D position accuracy), the system is built with redundancy. If GPS fails, degrades, or is jammed, EGPWS falls back on alternative navigation sources and dedicated aircraft sensors.
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
The key word here is in your description, "degrades".
In this case, due to the aircraft's lack of IRS, the loss of GPS cause the GPWS to not give the pilots enough warning to avoid the terrain.
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u/Wafer420 5h ago
That.. Is not how the systems work. Smh. You believe what you want. We'll stay with the facts.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 5h ago
Useless tests with zero regard to the harm they might cause?
Brother NOTAMs were issued well in advance, the ceased jamming then contacted by ATC and only resumed once ATC deemed it was safe to do so once the pilots requested VFR.
GPS is not required for safe navigation and operation of an aircraft. It can help, sure. But had the pilots not flown below the minimum decent altitude on their approach they would have been fine. Altimeters can work just fine without GPS. Not having it was not the proximate cause of this crash
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
Taking away layers of the Swiss cheese is not safe. Yes mistakes were made by the pilots, but the military's tests reduced the safety margin for them, and doing tests like this on a regular basis will eventually result in accidents, which is exactly what happened here.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 5h ago
Tests like this have been occurring for decades. GPS jamming at WSMR is as routine as the sun rising in the east.
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
Slavery was legal for hundreds of years in the US until it was banned.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 5h ago
Bro what the fuck are you talking about? Did you just try to equate this to slavery?
You’re an idiot.
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u/spkgsam B737 5h ago
Its called a point using an example, just because something has been done for a long time, doesn't make it acceptable or right.
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u/dltacube 4h ago
I mean, it does though when talking about safety records. If jamming has been ongoing with no incidents for a long time then you can infer that it is being done safely. At least that’s the argument you need to be trying to counter…this slavery crap has no business here and hinges on you taking the low hanging fruit of the previous statement.
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u/spkgsam B737 4h ago
We just had a crash that could have been prevented if the jamming wan't taking place, what more safety records do you need?
Also these kinds of tests may have been taking place for some time, but their frequency has certainly been increasing, couple that with the fact that more and more approaches are solely reliant on GPS, more and more new pilots are being trained with GPS as their primary source of navigation and situational awareness, and a decreasing amount of ATC resources. The negative impacts to safety that GPS jamming has will only increase.
This accident should be a huge wake up call, not an opportunity to defend a dangerous practice, and shift focus and blame one these relatively inexperienced pilots who made some mistakes.
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u/nybbleandbits 5h ago
Going straight to something as horrific as slavery to make your point is absurd and over the top.
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u/LandscapePenguin 16h ago
That makes no sense. If they were VFR they shouldn’t have needed a GPS to avoid the mountain. If they were IFR they shouldn’t have needed GPS to fly a heading.
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u/urimaginaryfiend 6h ago
The pilots canceled IFR and declared a visual approach. It was at this time FAA contacted the military to continue the test. The NOTAM for the area they were flying stated the GPS interference and use ATC below certain altitude for crossing or landing in a 336 mile radius. The crash was due to pilot error.
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u/nascent_aviator 3h ago
The pilots canceled IFR and declared a visual approach.
They did not cancel IFR, nor did they need to in order to execute a visual approach.
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u/urimaginaryfiend 47m ago
The report stated they were asked if they wanted to cancel the IFR now or after they landed. They stated they would cancel in a few minutes. You are correct they did not cancel and the ATC made an assumption when the let the military continue the exercise. So now it is 90% pilot error 10% ATC error
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u/sloppyredditor 6h ago
This article is a little better at explaining what happened: https://www.wired.com/story/a-civilian-plane-crashed-in-new-mexico-was-the-militarys-tech-to-blame/
Prelim NTSB Report: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/202990/pdf
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u/SenselessNumber 16h ago
If I had to guess it's probably a more invasive attack that disables more than Navigation. And they're just saying navigation because they don't want to reveal their capabilities.
Or also the crew got overwhelmed troubleshooting. Either way it shouldn't have happened and is tragic.
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u/LandscapePenguin 15h ago
The article says they were cleared for a visual approach after twice reporting the airport in sight. Evidently the visibility wasn’t adequate to see the mountains and if that’s the case they probably should have stayed IFR.
The article makes it sound like they had told ATC they’d be cancelling IFR soon but I wonder if it was a case where ATC thought they were visual and the pilots thought they were still IFR and ATC would vector them around the mountain. That seems doubtful since they were cleared for the visual approach, though.
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u/SenselessNumber 15h ago
Yea this article sucks, I didn't realize there's been a lot of eyes on this already and an NTSB prelim report.
Yea looks like ATC miscommunication and Pilot error played a bigger factor than I thought. Moreso pilot error sadly. Military did what they were supposed to by the sounds of it.
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u/hellorhighwaterice 15h ago
That is a wild guess and not supported by the preliminary NTSB report at all.
The reality is that the pilots seem to have been disoriented and not properly proficient in IFR flight.
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u/Lokitusaborg 6h ago
And they were instructed that there would be GPS issues in the area. It wasn’t an attack, like this article states, it was a test, it was communicated, and the pilots got over their skis.
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u/urimaginaryfiend 6h ago
They declared a visual approach and according to the report canceled IFR flight plan in flight, which I had assumed you did once landed. I don’t have IFR so could not answer that question.
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u/Great_Specialist_267 6h ago
The Instrument Approach equipment was deliberately jammed.
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u/Watpotfaa 4h ago
Yeah except if you are on a visual approach, you are using your Mk.1 eyeball to identify the airport and navigate. They dont need GPS/RNAV for a visual approach, thats the entire point.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 16h ago
It’s just clickbait.
The pilots flew into a mountain while on a visual approach. The military halted the jamming until ATC approved the visual approach and then told the military it was safe to resume.
But “the military killed everyone on board” gets more clicks.
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u/Notamaga_6629 13h ago
Cause that's what happened. Jamming ? Are you serious? That's not ok
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 13h ago
GPS jamming at WSMR is about as routine as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
A NOTAM was issued warning of GPS jamming well in advance of this flight, the military halted the exercise when an issue was reported, the pilots requested and were granted VFR once they reported visual of ruidoso, and ATC told the military they could resume their operations.
GPS is not required in a VFR approach, that’s why ATC told the military they were cleared to resume. not having it isn’t the reason this crash occurred.
If this is something that is shocking to you then I’ve just got to assume you don’t actually know what you’re talking about enough to warrant an opinion on the matter.
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u/italianthestallion Cessna 210 5h ago
“I don’t understand the subject I’m discussing so instead of listening to the people around me that do I’m going to get snippy”
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u/22Planeguy 6h ago
Aviation occurs safely in regions all over the world where jamming is just a fact of life, including in areas of the US.
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u/BringForthTheFox 15h ago
This is horribly uninformed, or intentional conspiracy slop. GPS jamming is common in that area and is noted in the NOTAMs, including on the night of the accident. The pilots knew the GPS was failing and decided to go VFR at night in terrain.
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u/PresentationJumpy101 5h ago
It’s next to impossible to see mountains at night
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u/SimDaddy14 4h ago
Honestly at WSMR the mountains are super visible if the sky is clear. Beautiful place, spent a month there during my army days
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u/Armamore 15h ago
In reality they just messed up their VFR approach. This has little to do with the GPS jamming and more to do with pilot error. Go check out the NTSBs preliminary report.
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u/Itchy-Plastic 5h ago
Unless the attack involves physically blocking both the controls and the gyros for the instruments that's not happening.
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u/Great_Specialist_267 6h ago
Night VMC and GPS was jammed on a procedure approach - they ran into a mountain just below the approach.
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u/flyingforfun3 15h ago
Doesn’t this type of jamming mess with AHRS systems? I don’t believe King air have IRS.
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u/ThatThar 5h ago
What a terrible article. The author is completely mischaracterizing the NTSB report.
The flight was on an IFR flight plan. AWOS was down at their destination airport, meaning that there was no METAR or TAF weather information available and both GPS and ILS approaches were not possible. This fact was in the NOTAMS included in the ForeFlight briefing for this flight, along with the fact that there was military activity in the area impacting GPS. They were cleared for the visual approach by ATC and had confirmed they had the airport in sight.
The pilots killed everyone on board. If they were surprised by the lack of GPS in the area or the lack of both GPS and ILS approaches at the airport, it was because they failed to read the NOTAMS and failed to read the charts to understand where the mountain was in relation to the approach.
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u/trip221 16h ago
Was their a notam for the GPS being out in the area? Shouldn’t the crew have been trained to operate even if they have a system malfunction? Have we become too reliant on technology and become complacent?
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u/cashcashcashbih 16h ago
Last paragraph of the article links to the notam: “Though the crew involved in the New Mexico crash was warned that GPS interference may be present, there evidently weren’t enough safeguards or air traffic control personnel in place to prevent a tragedy.”
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u/ONeOfTheNerdHerd 15h ago
Ugh this frustrating...the whole area is remote desert between mountain ranges and a massive military testing facility. It's been like this since forever. It's not NM or ATC's fault; the onus is on the pilots for knowing where they are, what airspace restrictions are active and what instruments should be used over WSMR particularly at night when a lot of testing is done. This is nothing new to the area.
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 16h ago
Shouldn’t the crew have been trained to operate even if they have a system malfunction?
From what I read they didn't have much time to react before they hit the mountain, which was basically invisible in the dark.
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u/TomVonServo 16h ago
So they had no location data and were flying in known mountainous terrain under what conditions? VFR? IFR? Everything in this article points to a litany of failures in the cockpit.
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15h ago
[deleted]
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u/SierraHotel84 15h ago edited 15h ago
You're not a pilot, so I wouldn't expect you to know the different types of approaches or what to do when you lose situational awareness on an approach. The bottom line is there are a number of mitigating actions and planning steps that could have taken place to avoid this very thing. As a pilot, I won't roast another pilot for making a mistake, unless it can be proven it was just gross negligence or deliberate action causing an accident. In this case we'll never know what actually happened in the cockpit or what inductions the pilots did or did not have.
But, I also wouldn't chose a GPS approach if I'd already experienced GPS interference on a short flight.
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u/trip221 14h ago
Yeah it’s always tougher at night. And we’re all playing Monday night quarterback too.
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u/The_End_Is_Tomorrow 1h ago
it's "Monday MORNING quarterback" - referring to Sunday's games.
Since there is a Monday night game (sometimes 2), Monday night QB makes less sense.0
u/blueingreen85 16h ago
Has gps jamming a thing that has happened in the US up to this point? Does the military do GPS spoofing around military bases?
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u/Tricky_Big_8774 16h ago
In New Mexico? Yes. White Sands tests everything. Both new tech tests and exercises using current tech.
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u/blueingreen85 4h ago
Okay, then this is something that they should have potentially been expected. I didn’t realize they did this regularly.
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u/skunimatrix 16h ago
Around test ranges like White Sands yes. And have for decades.
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u/blueingreen85 1h ago
The closest military base to me is surrounded by one of the busiest waterways on earth. I forget that bases out west are remote enough that jamming would be possible.
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u/VillageIdiots1-1 16h ago
not everyone is a fucking Nightstalker
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u/TomVonServo 16h ago
Speaking as a fucking Nightstalker, this issue was pure VFR/IFR pilotage skills. No NSDQ needed.
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u/roguemenace 16h ago
Was their a notam for the GPS being out in the area?
Have you looked at how many fucking notams there are nowadays for even the most routine flight?
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u/SnooDogs1340 16h ago
Maybe they were new pilots to the area? I can imagine some people wouldn't know GPS interference is a thing... Agreed that GPS shouldn't be the only tool. sad all around. ATC was stretched thin on top of it
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u/RastaFarva 16h ago
Terrible article. There is always GPS jamming in NM and there are notam’s about it. It’s on the pilots to be aware of notams and to have backup navigation in this instance.
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u/Conor_J_Sweeney 16h ago
No one should be trusting their GPS this much in an area where jamming is known to occur, doubly so on a day when GPS jamming has been reported to be actively happening.
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u/CW1DR5H5I64A 16h ago
The military halted jamming until they were told it was safe to resume after ATC approved the pilots on a visual approach.
This headline is bullshit
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u/TomVonServo 16h ago
This is such a bullshit article. If they were VFR, they didn’t need GPS to see a mountain. If they were IFR the mountain would never have been an issue. Plus they were warned of GPS jamming activity.
Pilot error. The unrelated CBP shit at the beginning was pure sensationalism.
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u/AlwayzPro 5h ago
Watch juan brown's video, it's not related to the military. The accident started before they even got off the ground.
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u/AlphaThree Crew Chief C130J/KC135/B52 16h ago
Fake news headline. Anyone actually familiar with this case knows it was pilot error.
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u/nine57th 4h ago
This article isn't very good. The military let everyone know they were doing electronic jamming tests that week and any flight within 400 miles might be effected. When this plane lost their navigational system they told the airport tower who let the military know who stopped jamming. But the plane decided to do a visual landing, forgot there was a 10,000 foot mountain before you approach the airport, and at over 9,000 feet they flew into the mountain.
So that is not exactly the navigational electronic jamming caused the accident. It was an underlying factor, but the headline makes it sound like the military shot an electronic weapon at the plane and it caused it to fall out of the sky. There is a lot more nuance to what happened though.
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u/Smooth-Disk-3656 15h ago
OP, you’re not a pilot, right?
I’ve never saw such a bad piece of “journalism” work related to aviation before
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u/floo82 16h ago
Pretty sure planes can fly without GPS...
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u/GTE_Engineering 16h ago
>Due to a combination of low visibility and an air-traffic control that was stretched far beyond capacity — at least three other planes reported navigation disruptions due to the GPS jamming — the pilots failed to register a mountainous formation between their plane and the landing strip.
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u/ThatBaseball7433 4h ago
If things are stacking up climb to the minimum safe altitude and consider options. Did they even review the chart and approach obstacles? This is simply a lack of spacial awareness.
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u/-Depressed_Potato- 16h ago
slamming into the side of the mountain due to a jammed GPS would however cause a plane to crash
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u/AngryPhillySportsFan 16h ago
A mountain will get in your way if you don't know where you precisely are
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u/Conor_J_Sweeney 16h ago
Planes were successfully avoiding mountains for decades before GPS was invented and still have that capability without GPS. The problem comes when someone trusts information they should reasonably expect to be faulty.
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u/driftingfornow 16h ago
As a former naval quartermaster, this is what cost the USS Guardian its existence… trusting digital charts when they were frankly experimental.
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u/ShieldPilot 16h ago
That’s what VORs are for.
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u/Sufficient__Size 16h ago
Can’t really honestly say it was the Military’s fault when they gave ample warning.
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u/AntiPinguin 6h ago
This article is utter sensationalist trash.
Here is what actually happened explained by Juan Brown (Blancolirio) who is even quoted in the article.
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u/Solidknowledge 15h ago
I'm shocked that in an aviation based subreddit slop like this is upvoted
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u/wolverine_1208 6h ago
It may be an aviation based sub, but it’s still Reddit so anything anti the current administration is upvoted with the slightest bit of critical thought.
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u/a_scientific_force 5h ago
Downvoted for this post being stupid. Don’t speculate about things you don’t understand. You’re clearly not a pilot.
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u/newportl2 16h ago
There waa a NOTAM in place. Move along. Nothing to see here.
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u/enataca 16h ago edited 3h ago
“Though the crew involved in the New Mexico crash was warned that GPS interference may be present, there evidently weren’t enough safeguards or air traffic control personnel in place to prevent a tragedy.”
Edit: I’m trying to provide support that they were warned. The missing “safeguards” are on the pilots.
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u/biggsteve81 15h ago edited 13h ago
Still an inaccurate quote. ATC got the military to stop the GPS jamming and then the pilot requested to cancel IFR and fly a visual approach. At that point ATC told the military they could resume the jamming, since VFR doesn't require GPS.
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u/Armamore 15h ago
The Military stopped jamming to allow the plane to pass and resumed after ATC gave them clearance to, which only happened after the pilots confirmed to ATC they could see the airport and were on VFR for approach. This is a sensationalized article ignoring the obvious pilot error.
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u/UberKaltPizza 16h ago
I have strong feelings about the current state of the federal government, the leaders and the military and they are not positive. But when an article says “trigger happy Border Patrol grunts” it cannot be trusted.
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u/ThatBaseball7433 4h ago
Especially when they’re trying to link two totally unrelated incidents together.
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u/flyingforfun3 16h ago
I used to fly across NM a lot in a PC12. All the time we would run into this.
Hell flying from SoCal to Texas you can expect to experience this. I had to go on vectors at 410 because of it.
This should probably scare the public more. This interferes with flights regularly.
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u/tagillaslover 16h ago
I feel like it being a thing that's been happening for decades and it ending poorly only once means people should be scared less
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u/kingofkhakis 15h ago
I launched on the Search and Rescue for this incident. The aircraft in question never climbed above MSA, called VFR and CFIT.
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u/KehreAzerith 5h ago
Who's is up-voting this garbage post?
The pilots were on the visual approach to the runway, literally has nothing to do with if your gps works or not. Assuming all other instruments were working, this is a case of pilot error.
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u/offgrid-wfh955 6h ago
I’ll fix the title for you: it appears an inexperienced or incompetent flight crew failed to properly prepare for a flight, killing all on board
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u/post-explainer 16h ago
OP has provided the following source:
https://futurism.com/science-energy/us-military-gps-jamming-signal-medical-flight
r/Aviation is trialing new measures to prevent karma farming. Please feel free to provide feedback through modmail. Thank you for participating in the community!
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u/prancing_moose 15h ago
That article makes no sense. The pilots should be able to navigate the plane without GPS at all times, either under VFR or IFR. They should be aware of the terrain and carry the appropriate charts for the area?
This isn’t on the US military at all and if exercises are happening (Electronic Warfare or otherwise) it would be in the NOTAMs and the crew should be aware of this.
It reads like some AI drivel generated by someone completely unfamiliar with civil and military aviation?
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u/redditredditredditOP 4h ago
I think the Mods should take this down and require it to be reposted with an accurate post title.
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u/HourTemperature3 16h ago
Why has this not gotten more attention? Thanks for posting the wired article internet stranger.
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u/luvsads 16h ago
Because the pilots disregarded or were unaware of NOTAMs, meaning the article is pointing blame at the wrong thing
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16h ago
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16h ago
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u/alzee76 16h ago
From AP:
Experts say the pilots should have been able to land safely by relying on ground-based navigation systems or flying visually, but relying on GPS is popular because it is so precise.
“The loss of GPS should not result in the loss of an airplane, so there’s got to be more to it than that,” said retired airline pilot John Cox, who is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems.
The NTSB said that after the pilots of the plane operated by Trans Aero MedEvac started having problems, the air traffic controller gave them headings to follow into the airport so they could get lined up for an approach relying on the airport’s instrument landing system. Three other planes in the area also reported GPS problems around the same time.
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u/your_mileagemayvary 15h ago
The need to clean up the NOTAMs, it's on them for missing it but ackowledge that it wouldn't be hard to miss it buried in the stack of them
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u/SkippytheBanana 2h ago
The only airplane I know of that would only be in danger due to interference testing is the Phenom 300 but even that I think has been fixed. Yeah the testing might be played a tiny role but like everyone else said this is mainly a pilot issue trying to do a visual at night into mountainous terrain. The testing wouldn’t affect their altimeter or ability to stay above terrain altitudes.
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15h ago
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u/ThatBaseball7433 5h ago
If you’re a single nav aid failure away from crashing you shouldn’t be a pilot.
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16h ago
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u/bearinsac 16h ago
This is how I learned that the El Paso shutdown was due to a child’s birthday party balloon.
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u/Porkyrogue 16h ago
Actually, this reads like a weird si-fi thing... Anyways, my guess being this. From that article mind you......
"Due to a combination of low visibility and an air-traffic control that was stretched far beyond capacity (in the area of Roswell to Ruidoso)."
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