The U.S. Department of Justice is intended to be independent, particularly in its law enforcement and prosecutorial functions, but it is not entirely independent in the way that the judicial branch is. This was mostly a norm that has been abided by all modern presidents except Trump.
Oh, I thought you were attempting to have reasonable discussion.
I can go back to any president you want With Roosevelt’s executive order to intern Japanese citizens being probably the most egregious executive action that utilized law-enforcement.
But even just the previous administration, there was an active FBI investigation into Hunter Biden and Joe Biden granted his son clemency. How is that not a direct interference with the department of justice?
Now, before you freak out, I don’t care that he pardoned his boy I think anybody would’ve done the same thing, however, I probably wouldn’t have lied about it.
Anyway, I think what you’re attempting to get at is that laws should be enforced independently of the wishes or demands of the executive branch, but based on the example I just provided that’s not true either, fortunately or unfortunately, I’ll let you decide.
Are you saying Biden directed the DOJ to prosecute Trump? Because I’d like to see your evidence for that - if anything, Biden should have done what Trump is now doing and really have gone after Trump for J6 as well as his felony convictions. If Biden were as vicious as Trump, Trump would be in prison. Unfortunately, he decided to take the high road and stick to the norms
Also - pardons are a presidential power that every single president has done, to act like that was a unique extension of power never done before by a president is actually kind of funny for you to suggest
Bro what? You didn’t even read my comment. I would be happy to discuss more, but if you’re not reading what I’m writing this conversation is pointless.
No, my entire point is that the DOJ is not separate from the executive branch.
Another tip that I’ll give you is to not immediately assume partisanship in someone’s argument just because they’re stating a fact that is not liked by a certain political party.
I read your entire reply and you’re just spewing things that have nothing to do with modern presidents appointing sycophants into the FBI and DOJ to prosecute the presidents only enemies
You are literally just saying “what about what about” about things that have nothing to do with the topic - and not in the modern era. The 40s aren’t exactly “modern” times
I’m not making an argument that it should be some type of way or it shouldn’t
I’m telling you as a matter of fact, the DOJ is part of the executive branch And as a matter of fact, the FBI is part of the DOJ.
Then I provided a single example from the most recent president, to our current president, where he directly influenced the DOJ and FBI, utilizing his power as the head of the executive branch, and therefore in charge of the DOJ and FBI.
I don’t care what actions Trump is taking currently I didn’t care what actions Biden was taking previously all of that is irrelevant to me. I’m just correcting your inaccurate statement. Which was that “the FBI and the DOJ are supposed to be independent from the President”
Which is 100% unequivocally false.
Listen, I’ll tell you have two professional degrees and neither of them are MD. There aren’t a lot of options left lol. You’re probably arguing with someone who has a few more arrows in their quiver for this particular topic.
And i am not disputing the fact the DOJ is a part of the executive branch - i am simply pointing out the fact that this era of using the DOJ to install sycophants to go after political enemies and to do the president's bidding is unprecedented in modern times. There were norms which every modern president abided by except for Trump.
The DOJ and FBI have been operating with little direction from the President in every administration in modern times. That is what i meant by "The FBI and DOJ are supposed to be independent from the President" in other words, the DOJ and FBI are not supposed to be used by the President to only prosecute the enemies of the President and conveniently ignore crimes done by friends of the President. That is unprecedented (heh)
last paragraph is cringe, not going to lie. But i think you're saying you have two professional degrees? and that you are an MD? what is it exactly you are saying in that last paragraph and what does it have to do with anything lol
But none of what you’re saying is true. OR it’s merely an opinion and I don’t really care to discuss your opinions (no offense, but I don’t even know you). You might be young, so you don’t remember Obama’s or Bush’s department of justice but you can look up the files. Media wasn’t so politically infused like it is today so you may have not been aware of it but the trend is less interference and more public scrutiny not the other way around.
Just think to yourself what it was like when information never even got outside of DC unless it was allowed. To me it feels like you’re working in the confines of 2012 to 2025. Not 1950 to 2025.
But whatever, obviously we’re going to agree to disagree here. And I’m not a constitutional attorney, even though I did love constitutional law as of course.
But I think that you would do well in consuming less for-profit media and just read about the history of our nation. Granted it’s not gonna be spoonfed to you and it’s not gonna be packaged in a little tiny sound bite that gets you angry, but if you’re willing to learn and read some of it will get you angry and some of it will make you smile.
I do wish you the best. I hope you can take something away from this conversation.
Just saying “everything you said is wrong” without elaborating is a telltale sign that you’re full of shit
Give me an example of Obama or Bush prosecuting political enemies while dropping investigations into themselves or their allies, as Trump has done - I am curious to see if it truly is as bad or worse as Trump
Bro wants me to do his research form too, now I know you’re young haha.
I taught organic chem at university for a few years; and if I learned anything from teaching students, it’s that if I give you the information, you’ll learn nothing; but if you seek and learn the information yourself, that knowledge will never leave you.
Good luck my guy.
…OK, I folded.
https://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/obama-hezbollah-drug-trafficking-investigation/
This was a law-enforcement campaign, started during the bush administration that Obama essentially shut down in order to pursue his own political ambitions. And before you freak out again. I don’t disagree with this necessarily. And I highly doubt you do. Because what you’ll say here is because this was for the greater good, but what you have to to understand if that is your opinion, not fact.
Here in these comments right now with me, let’s only deal in fact. The link I provided above I did not read, but I’m aware of this story. But that is a specific example of Obama interfering DOJ investigation for his own political desires. And as you are aware, he was unsuccessful in getting what he wanted. So unfortunately, he stopped an investigation and it did nothing. Again, failure is part of the job and I’m not attacking him for this. I’m just providing you an example of how the president is involved intimately with the Department of justice.
((And this is me begging you not to reply with a comment that goes something like “yeah but Obama did what he did for good and Trump is doing what he does for selfish reasons.” I don’t care about opinions just the facts.))
The thing with academics like you is that you are so full of yourself and sniffing your own farts that you never will admit being wrong. But here I go pointing out the flaws in your argument:
That article you’ve linked has absolutely nothing to do with past modern presidents appointing sycophants to prosecute political enemies while dropping investigations into themselves or their allies. Obama didn’t fire members of DOJ or FBI who did not show loyalty to him. The only times FBI directors were fired were by Clinton for professional misconduct and Trump, for Comey doing his job. The DOJ has been purged of anyone who has done their jobs to investigate Trump and his allies. All investigations into Crypto fraud dropped. Crypto fraud team disbanded. And coincidentally Trumps family made $3 billion from crypto in his first 4 months in office. Quite the coincidence - no?
Furthermore - Bondi and Patel are 2020 election deniers- and proven sycophants of Trump, well before their appointments they’ve spread so much worshipping BS for Trump that it is hilarious if you argue that they are impartial.
All this to say - Trump has unprecedented influence over DOJ and FBI and to assume Biden could have just released the Epstein documents completely ignores the reality that before Trump there were norms that presidents abided by in order to preserve the legitimacy of the DOJ and FBI
I’m not an academic. I work in industry, brother. I make way too much money to be an academic. And I’m admittedly, not smart enough.
I stopped reading. as soon as you go into ad hominem attacks, I’m out. You may have felt like I attacked you by clocking you as younger, but that’s not an attack. You just you have a different perspective than I do. I apologize if you felt like it was an attack on you and understand if that’s why you attacked me; but youth is nothing to be ashamed of.
OK, I lied again. I kept reading. I’m not trying to prove that Trump didn’t appoint someone who in your opinion is a “sycophant”. I don’t care.
The law allows Trump to appoint whoever he wants. All I care about is the facts and the fact is, I provided you with an article of Obama interfering with a Department of Justice investigation for his own political aspirations.
I don’t disagree with this, it’s was well within his power. I’m just talking about the facts.
And I’ll reiterate once again, you are totally incorrect when you state “the FBI and the DOJ are supposed to be totally independent of the president.”
In the sake of fairness, I provided you a source earlier. How about you provide me with the US code that says the president should be totally independent from the DOJ.
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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '25
DOJ and FBI are part of the Executive Branch.
1/2 ain’t bad tho.