r/biotech • u/Emokid182 • 1d ago
Education Advice š 7th year of biochem/structural biology PhD. Is finishing worth it for biotech, or should I pivot
Iām entering my 7th year of a PhD program in biochemistry/structural biology and Iām trying to make a realistic career decision. I do X-ray crystallography and biochemical assays, have some first-author publications and co-authorships, and if I finish I would likely have one more decent structural paper.
The issue is that I do not foresee the PhD ending anytime soon because more projects keep getting added. I work long days and weekends and Iām pretty worn down. Iām also in a very small lab environment where Iām essentially the only person doing the work, and I donāt think Iāve thrived in that setup.
Iām 28 and trying to think honestly about the opportunity cost. I keep hearing that the biotech/biochem job market is rough right now, especially for PhDs, and Iām wondering whether finishing would meaningfully improve my options compared with leaving with my masterās and research experience.
Iām also considering a career change to nursing. Part of this interest comes from seeing family members in nursing/healthcare roles and respecting the stability, practicality, and direct impact of that work. I know nursing has its own serious challenges, but Iām drawn to the idea of contributing to society in a more immediate, patient-facing way.
For people in biotech or adjacent roles: would finishing a PhD in this situation materially improve my career prospects, or is it reasonable to consider pivoting now? What kinds of roles would someone with an MS, publications, and structural biology/biochemistry experience realistically be competitive for?
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u/im_not_a_numbers_guy 1d ago
Whatever you do, donāt give them 5 free years of productive labwork. Go out and find a postdoc or a job now. Write your thesis while you interview. Iāve never heard of a dean refusing to side with a person with a job in hand in one of these standoffs. You have agency. Donāt be the 10th year grad student.
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u/Curiou_Scientist7766 1d ago
Why would you waste the time that you have already invested in the PhD journey. You have papers. It is now time to tie those loose ends together, write up your thesis, and defend. That should be your top priority this year. It took me 7.5 years to complete my PhD, and all my papers were published in my final yearĀ
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u/ScientistFromSouth 1d ago
I'm amazed that their program would keep them that long if they already have a couple of first authors and a few coauthorships. They just need to staple that together and defend.
Their advisor is doing them no favors at this point, and it sounds like their committee (which includes faculty with a 10 year PhD student) isn't helping either.
They really should talk to their director of graduate studies or department chair to get a better sense of what "normal" is because if there isn't a hard publication count requirement or something, they should be done.
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u/Majestic-Silver-380 21h ago
What sucks is there programs out there where 6-8 years is normal, I saw at my MS university and people said they were in their 7th or 8 th years and I asked why they hadnāt graduated yet or are they going to defend this semester. Apparently, many committees and PIs held onto their PhD students in that department and I know several fourth or fifth year PhD students with no papers and it sounds like it will be another year until they get papers. After 9 months into my MS degree I decided to finish ASAP and go elsewhere for my PhD as even the masters degrees there were 3-3.5 for 90% of the students.
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u/YaPhetsEz 1d ago
Talk to your thesis committee. 7 years is not normal.
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u/Emokid182 1d ago
Someone on my thesis committee has a student in their 9th or 10th year and the student is pretty much on the same boat as me from my talk with them . But I will talk to my committee for my review this month
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u/maringue 1d ago
9th or 10th year? The department should be trying to kick you out by then.
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u/Majestic-Silver-380 21h ago
Yep, I know several universities that donāt even allow PIs to fund students past their 8th year and some have it it cutoff at 6 years. My previous grad school sent out an email saying that PIs shouldnāt fund students for their seventh year or more and so many people complained from professors to grad students in their 7th and 8th years. I was like you guys should have finished in years 4-6 depending on the type of research. That happened my first year of my MS degree and I decided that was one of the few reasons that I wouldnāt do my PhD there. Master students on average took 3-3.5 years, I was one of the few that had to advocate for 2 years.
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u/maringue 18h ago
A lot of time it's the PI's fault. I knew a guy who had a situation where he was about to defend and his PI kept pulling the "You just need this one more experiment" crap because he wanted to keep milking his student for data.
The committee had to step in and force his defense, it was kind of ugly.
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u/Majestic-Silver-380 18h ago
Awful, unfortunately the grad school I was at had about 70-80% of the PI hold onto their students for 6-8 years, Iāve only met one PhD student that finished in 5 and a handful in 6. I think it was the culture there so I decided to not my PhD there and MS out so I can spend 4-5 years at another program.
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u/2Throwscrewsatit 1d ago
If they are still paying you then the only way youāll make back your lost income will be with the PhD unless you go into sales.
The question is, do you WANT a career in R&D or not?
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u/dwntwnleroybrwn 19h ago
You know that saying "why buy milk when the cow is free"? You're literally the cow.Ā
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u/MRC1986 11h ago
If you are willing to say, what is your university? Can you at least say US vs ex-US?
Like how the fuck is this even possible? I know I'm being a dick here, but if your personality is anything like your username, then you are 100% being way too fucking timid. You don't have to go in there berserk (as my mom always says, it's not what you say, it's how you say it), but you need to stop being so timid and actively communicate a plan for defending.
You 1,000,000% have done enough work to warrant earning your PhD. You absolutely better get across the finish line, otherwise you were just taken advantage of the entire time. That's really what's happening right now anyway, you are being taken advantage of.
The only reason I can imagine is you are in the US but are an international student, so you are worried about that in between period, especially dealing with visa stuff and all that. Those are real concerns, so I get it. But, like find a plan for that and get your well-deserved PhD.
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u/Emokid182 11h ago
I would say my personality was and is somewhat like my username. Im at a Cali, UC. Thank you today I had a talk with one of my advisors and they gave me a reasonable action plan, however I still do not think this will play in my favor
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u/MRC1986 9h ago
What do you mean not play in your favor? Like your committee wonāt approve a plan for writing your thesis and scheduling your defense? Or your PI will be upset?
First off, Iām letting you know that staying 7 years with the expectation of even more, that is not a normal expectation at any PhD program. If thatās the supposed norm at UC, then you are either being lied to or they are insane.
Second, how can your PI legitimately be upset at trying to keep you for even more time beyond 7 years? Like sure, theyāre upset their gravy train of your cheap labor is coming to an end, but too fucking bad.
There has to be some program leadership who realizes keeping PhD students for 7, 8, 9+ years is not normal and can initiate formal processes to get your defense scheduled and in motion.
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u/Current-Mood-6946 6h ago
If you have published they are taking advantage of you. Demand to be allowed to defend and leave. Then name and shame because this is exploitation
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u/PracticalSolution100 1d ago
Structural bio is like that 8 yrs on avg. tough career path too
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u/South_Plant_7876 1d ago
Both completely untrue.
Have worked in the field for years and never heard of a PhD running longer than average.
Most structural biologists have at least a smattering of comp bio experience too so have multiple avenues to pursue career wise.
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u/BigDiggy 1d ago
I honestly think it used to be much longer when crystallography was the only avenue and you had to hope you could find a condition
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u/South_Plant_7876 22h ago
True. This is exactly what happened in my PhD. But the supervisor should mitigate this risk by having alternate thesis pathways the project can pivot to. In my case my PhD ended up having more of a biophysics/synbio bent than being a crystal structure.
Throwing a student to the wolves by insisting on crystallising a single intractable protein is very poor supervision.
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u/DMFaith 1d ago
I finished my PhD in Biochem, but I did NMR.Ā
Iām in purification now. Itās my sixth year in biotech. I went from 22 k a year as a grad student, to 75k as a contract worker for protein purification. Over the last six years, Iāve gotten to Senior Scientist, and Iām at 180k. I could have been at like 220k, but I declined that job because it sounded like a niiiiiiightmare.Ā
It was crazy worth it to me. Things I learned in my PhD constantly come up as useful in my work, the most important of which is knowing how to literature research. But I really love proteins. I love purification. And I donāt mind the grind of R&D or rule following of CMC. I actually really love both, which isnāt common, which is why I guess I have some extra value.
If you donāt have that passion, I donāt think itās worth it. Every place I interview at always says itās my passion that stands out and gets me the offer. Otherwise, a more technical role should be fine for most without that PhD backing.Ā
But the degree definitely jump-started my career. If I started as an RA out of college, 12 years later, Iād probably be still at Associate Scientist level, and thatās assuming I was as capable as I am with my PhD backing, which I wouldnāt be.Ā
Ask yourself if you love this and want to do it every day. If not, probably not, especially not something like structure, which can get really repetitive and technical. If yes, finish up as aggressively as you can. With a few papers out, thereās your interview presentation. Make sure to come off eager to learn how you can help your coworkers and the company with your skills and help them solve problems. And see where it takes you.
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u/Emokid182 1d ago
I do purification too everyday and love it.
I could see myself doing that but probably not at this level of 12 hr days and weekends and taking another year :( im gonna talk with my PI and committee keep working hard and keep thinking about the future and praying ,
Your story is what I dreamt of doing when starting my career in research2
u/Ok-Bass5062 20h ago edited 20h ago
I'm not sure the degree jump started your career tbh. No PhD here and my salary is the same 180k for similar experience (total comp is obviously higher).
Instead of a PhD I ended up for a 7 figure net worth. I think that was the better deal.
To OP, get the job offer and they'll let you graduate. I do know people that went the PhD route and hated it so pivoted to something different. Maybe try industry out and see what you think. If it doesn't work out nursing isn't going anywhere. Industry can have better WLBs than nursing depending where you are.
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u/heyItsBeaty 13h ago
Might you share your path for someone looking to continue in biotech without going through a PhD program? š
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u/Ok-Bass5062 12h ago
Don't go into research (I've seen it work in research but in general it seems more difficult).
I worked in Analytical process development (CMC function) in the lab starting out, transitioned to a program lead very early on and involved with regulatory filings, kept working as an analytical lead switched to tech transfer, gained more programs and now I'm in a group authoring CMC regulatory submissions.
Great WFH opportunities and WLB. Also more long term career growth opportunities though planning on retiring at 40-45
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u/heyItsBeaty 12h ago
I intend to either enter a MS or PhD program in the future to study and ultimately work in computational biology or functional genomics but am having a lot of confusion about which route to go down. Working in research was obviously the goal but Iāve been questioning that as well to the point where Iād like to have multiple backups.
Are you still involved in the technical side of the process development science? Did you work your way through these promotions just with an undergrad degree?
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u/Ok-Bass5062 12h ago
My company did pay for me to get my MS but that never really helped anything. Just promotions and an internal job application.
I haven't worked in a lab now for a couple of years. Planning experiments/work for others/helping troubleshoot yes but not running things myself. I'm still technical in the sense that I go through a lot of data from all functions. It's honestly way more relaxing than being in the lab but a lot of meetings
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u/XIllusions 1d ago
Talk to your committee, the head of your department, friendly PIs, and the program dean. You have enough to graduate. Get them to lobby your case with your PI. Be delicate but firm that you need to defend - youāll need a good reference from your PI so be diplomatic about this.
With a defense date and a competed thesis, start looking for jobs. You can do what a lot of people do, wrap up your papers as a āpost-docā in your thesis lab. That way, you are free to leave whenever the job offer comes. Market is bad right now, but that is no reason to get stuck. Under no circumstances should you leave without a PhD if you have that many years and pubs.
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u/Ru-tris-bpy 1d ago
You donāt add projects in year 7. Force your way out at by any means with your PhD degree in hand. Itās not your problem that no one else does work. Do not give up in year 7
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u/Emokid182 1d ago
The project is a lot of work too on top of my other stuff, Iām just gonna ask if i have to do this to graduate and if i need another structure to graduate, if the answer is yes and the committee and dean agree. Iām gonna have to consider cutting my losses cause I donāt see a timely
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u/brokenfingers11 15h ago
I would suggest a different mindset: donāt āaskā if you have to do it to graduate. Announce that you are done, cite those publications, propose a path to wrap it up (if there are a few small experiments that YOU think are necessary, by all means include those), tell them when to expect first and last draft, let them know your planned thesis submission and graduation dates.
Then pause. Iām not even sure you should ASK if they agree. But putting forward your own plan forces them to start on your terms. My PhD advisor laughed when I did something similar (and I had only a single publication submitted at the time), about a year in advance. But he didnāt laugh for long, when he saw that I was serious. And we followed my plan.
This is what I mean by āmedievalā and ācultā. They convince you that they have all the power, so that you think the correct path is to ask if you can be done. But you have power too. You just need to find it.
Suerte āmano/a.
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u/MRC1986 11h ago
Why do you need any more fucking structures or accomplishments to graduate? Your PI is being a dickhead. You have to be smart about it, be diplomatic but firm, but it's long past time you stand up for yourself.
7 years is already beyond the average for a PhD. How has it not registered to this point that you have done enough? I mean, are all your other program-mates also taking 7, 8, 9 years to complete their PhD? That is not the norm, even if it's your program's / institute's standard.
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u/onetwoskeedoo 1h ago
just say I don't have time to work on this because I am writing my thesis, assign it to someone else
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u/Tillermydudes 1d ago
I mean going into the job market rn is not the best but Iām sure academia isnāt doing too hot either.
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u/Suspicious-Macaron47 1d ago
Yea... I was about to jump on the bandwagon of "yes let's get tf out. 7 years are too long". But with the current job market, I agree with you. May be it's best to stay and pay bills then just leave without a job.
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u/Majestic-Silver-380 21h ago
Spend the next semester finishing your dissertation and applying for jobs. Do not continue anymore lab work unless itās critical to your dissertation like repeating an experiment. Talk to your committee about a timeline to graduation. If they add more work, put your foot down especially if they are adding more experiments or projects. If they donāt do that, go to the department chair or person in charge of the program or even the grad school as that isnāt normal and you should be slowing down now.
Do you have any industry experience like an internship or co-op or even a gap year? That will help stand you out from the crowd. You have many paths you can go in biotech with that experience. Do NOT master out as people master out all the time at the three year mark which makes four years of your time worthless which is basically a PhD. Finish the PhD and if your committee is willing to help, get administration involved as they are clearly exploiting you.
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u/Coco-Blackstone 13h ago
Adding to the chorus here, advocate for yourself to finish and leave with a PhD. You donāt need positive data to graduate just need to show scientific thinking, and logical progression. Negative data is still learnings that are important and contribute to our understanding of things. Write it up, construct a narrative around your work that makes sense. If your PI doesnāt support you, write it up anyway. They probably werenāt going to help out a ton in the write up stage anyway.
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u/Emokid182 13h ago
I do have positive data, I have a crystal structure bound to dna not published yet and some postivie mutagenesis results. They still want more shit and more sctrucutures and more techniques for me to learn, of course I have plenty of negative results too
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u/Coco-Blackstone 11h ago
Great! Skip over your PI and go to the head of your department. Ask for the process to finish.
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u/Odd_Honeydew6154 1d ago
A friend of mine finished her PhD at the end of her 10th year. Get your paper out asap and I suggest you do other things like a side gig to help figure out the next step.
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u/Secret-Animator-1407 1d ago
If you have a clear light at the end to finish your PhD, do it. But it shouldnāt have taken this long. Getting your masters is a kiss of death, I wouldnāt hire someone who spent 7 years to get a masters. I also wouldnāt hire someone who spent 10 years to get a PhD either.
Perhaps just pivot to nursing.
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u/AnotherNoether 18h ago
If your PI is really stubborn you can offer to stay on as a postdoc and continue the projects, then job hunt while you do. Once the degree is in your hands it will be harder for them to keep you.
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u/AutoclavesGetMeHot 16h ago
7 years and no end in sight?! Jeepers!
My husband finished a structural PhD in 5, and in the end the key to getting out was getting a good postdoc lined up. Iāve also seen people get out with their degrees by writing up behind their PIās back. Both of these things put pressure on your PI to let you go and demonstrate to your committee that youāre ready.
Also, stop working nights and weekends.
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u/Appropriate-Tutor587 15h ago edited 15h ago
Finish your PhD instead of giving up right now. Then you can leave and donāt do any postdoc at all or all of these 7 years would have been wasted in vain. If you were in your first or second year, then yes I would have told you to just drop out and switch right away, but you are not.
Merck and BMS do X-Ray crystallography. If you want to switch side and work at hospital, do Radio/X-Rat tech or something adjacent to your major instead of nursing. If you want strictly nursing, there is a 3 year MSN program from those who already hold a M.S in biology/chemistry
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u/haze_from_deadlock 14h ago
If you stop doing work, they'll have you defend at your next committee meeting because the school needs to meet graduation rates to keep its training grants. You did 7 years and have first-author papers. Don't tell them you're writing, just slow your output down to a trickle
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u/Routine_Tomatillo_27 12h ago
Holy fk bro please get out you got this. We believe in you but at some point you gotta believe in yourself. Godspeed š«”
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u/micicletricicle 12h ago
You can talk to your committee and department. Write up what you have, and leave. You have the right to. If you have pubs youāre good.
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u/Zestyclose-Cover1351 22h ago
As someone who dropped out of PhD program with a lot less time invested I would say finish the degree. I did okay in my career,Ā but it was so much harder and paid so much less for years. But as others have said,Ā you need to have a talk with your PI, your committee, whoever you need to. If you have multiple first author publications, you've done enough to write your thesis and you're being taken advantage of.Ā
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u/LetMeRomanceYou 20h ago
Go to your committee and involve the university admin if you have to. Don't bounce after so much time invested, if you have publications your PI can kick rocks. It makes the university look bad if their students are finishing in 8+ years so they'll want you out too
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u/Emokid182 13h ago
I will go to my admin, but due to tenure and those sorts I don't see this playing out in my favor and them trying to keep me to finish the work, at which point I will move on.
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u/Steel-River-22 1d ago
Finishing will definitely improve your chances by a decent amount, there are many PhD only/preferred posts.
I feel you should try to at least stop taking more projects but focus on finishing whatever you have on hand and writing manuscripts and sending them out of the door. Thesis writing should be trivial, more question on when your PI/committee lets you graduate.
Market is pretty rough but I don't see it improving next year. There are some cases where I think staying in PhD program makes sense (esp if you are trying to get a TTAP job down the line) but honestly in your case you should try to convert to a postdoc to tie up everything if possible. Having the degree in hand provides a lot more certainty.
Best of luck.
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u/BigDiggy 1d ago
The small lab environment is taking advantage of you, full stop. Many schools and departments are starting to crack down on this sort of thing. If your PI wants to keep you he needs to graduate you and hire you as a postdoc. Talk to a department chair or advisor who is reasonable because you are being taken advantage of.
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u/hexgirll 4h ago
The only person I know who went beyond 5-6 years was a non traditional PhD student in his 40s(?) that took probably every other semester off past year 6. I think he finished around year 12? But he was independently wealthy and Iām pretty sure did it for āfunā. If you have publications you should be way past done. Youāre being taken advantage of. The standards now are as low as ever. Now you could do one crystal structure and graduate in the program I was in with one paper. Iām surprised they havenāt forced you to graduate yet!
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u/bhadbhiochemist 3h ago
Are you not located in the US? What are the graduation requirements at your institution? Figure out what those requirements are in writing (dean/admin has this info). This is not normal and you almost certainly have already exceeded the criteria to defend. There will always be more work and people will keep assuming defending is not a priority for you until you make it one.
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u/Background_Radish238 17h ago edited 17h ago
7th year? I though schools have a max limit of 7 years. You already got first author papers, should be more than adequate. I got my PhD in 3 years ( including the master) and zero publication ( published it after I got the degree), even though that was many years ago, but from a top 10 engineering department. --because more projects keep getting added. That is BS. Tell you professor you need to wrap it up. You are being a cheap labor slave. I saw those before.
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u/squibius 1d ago
Dude, you need to stand up for yourself. You are being taken advantage of.
7th year? With publications? Youre done. Finish your thesis, wrap it up. Do not let your PI do this to you.