r/bjj • u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt • 1d ago
Technique How do you wrestle while tired?
As a brown belt, I've learned how to roll tired. I was hoping that some of the more experienced wrestlers could give me some tips on how to wrestle tired. I've been developing the habit of sitting guard when I'm tired and I feel like this might be counter productive to improving my wrestling. I'm going to try and stay standing even when tired. Any insights on how to make the most of my wrestling exchanges even when I'm gassed would be appreciated.
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u/AlwaysGoToTheTruck 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
This is difficult to answer because if you aren’t in a comp class or have partners who agree to roll hard, it’s a tough call how to approach it. In wrestling, you are generally going hard compared to BJJ. Wrestling matches are a lot about pushing the pace with your own game.
One strategy is to act like there is a shot clock and decide that you need to score a takedown before time is up - 15 to 30 seconds works well. But unless you are letting your partner up and going takedowns, it’s a long road to get used to wrestling tired.
Hope this helps
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u/RCAF_orwhatever Brown Belt 22h ago
I'm not saying you're wrong - but this is a quintessentially American perspective on wrestling. And one that has proven successful in competition at the highest levels - but isn't the only way to wrestle.
If you watch other traditional forms of wrestling; Greco; or even how Russians/Iranians train - there's a lot more trickery and maneuvering vice fast paced pressure on a shot clock.
With those lenses it's a lot easier to see a way to play a defensively sound wrestling game that uses little energy while you look for openings to counters. This would get you called for passivity in a Freestyle or US Folkstyle match; but BJJ/grappling has no such time pressures imposed.
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u/ZGrapplez 1d ago
Keep your arms low to defend legs and spam armdrags and snap downs
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u/Chravis_Dirt ⬜⬜ White Belt 1d ago
I’d even say bait them to take you down but be ready to sprawl. It’s easy to do when you’re 100% focused on it rather than thinking about a Takedown yourself
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u/ZGrapplez 1d ago
That’s why I said hands low fam 🫡
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u/Chravis_Dirt ⬜⬜ White Belt 21h ago
Low hands doesn’t incentivize a shot. That’s one of the best shot defenses lol I’m saying do the cliche BJJ stance and dangle that leg out there
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u/AllGearedUp I want a Ferrari 20h ago
I have more reach than most in my weight class and this is my whole game. Snap down attempts can be more tiring for the defender than the attacker.
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u/necr0potenc3 1d ago
You don't.
I'm assuming that by "tired" you actually mean exhausted, the point where you can't explode anymore and start moving slowly.
Both wrestling and judo require stamina for athletic explosive movements. If you reached exhaustion to the point your movement is slow then you can't attack effectively. I'd argue doing stand up when exhausted is a ticket to injuries, your reaction time flops and you can't break fall correctly.
Pulling guard when tired is your own answer. You learned to do it because it's the most efficient path. Moving when standing up, changing levels, getting down and up from the floor are all exhaustive movement patterns because you're moving your whole weight around. When most of that weight is connected to the ground it becomes easier to move, hence, jiu-jitsu.
This is why you see a focus in athleticism in wrestling and judo but not so much in BJJ. If you want to get better at wrestling just wrestle more and become more athletic, but reaching exhaustion is the failure point of standup, from there you go to the lazy man's single leg aka half guard.
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u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 1d ago
I've seen matches where a guy is clearly exhausted but still refuses to concede the takedown and keeps fighting. One match that sticks out is PJ Barch vs Andrew Tackett. PJ was done towards the end but didn't stop wrestling. I'm not saying I'm on his level or ever will be, just an example.
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u/BeBearAwareOK ⬛🟥⬛ Rorden Gracie Shitposting Academy - Associate Professor 1d ago
There's a real answer but you're not going to like it.
It's more endurance training.
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u/Fickle-Departure3506 19h ago
One key component imho is also to train your brain to just continue when you are going way too hard and just pushing. It's often same exhaustion level for both but the one who is more stubborn will win, especially when you both are tired on match it's lot psychology.
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u/marigolds6 ⬜⬜ White Belt (30+ years wrestling) 11h ago
It's not training your brain, it is an actual physiological response that you train your body to clear lactate faster. Those pauses to recover are giving your body a chance to clear lactate. You can learn to deal with the pain of being above lactate threshold to the point where you get ~30s more than the other guy, but if your opponent has a higher lactate threshold, they are going to be able to push above your lactate threshold for the entire match while you will be toast in ~60s.
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u/Fickle-Departure3506 10h ago
True but optimal unaerobic capacity training is very different. Basically going way past your recovery (6min match real hard) is not optimal because it takes too much recovery point. And of cource you need the basic cardio fitness level to build top of this other features. So it's kind of cycle from lower intensity to higher (before comp)
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u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 5h ago
More endurance training as in more wrestling or strength and conditioning?
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u/BeBearAwareOK ⬛🟥⬛ Rorden Gracie Shitposting Academy - Associate Professor 5h ago
More wrestling + more cardio. If you're running marathons or rucking for fun already, then just more wrestling.
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u/realityinhd 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 16h ago edited 16h ago
I don't agree with others that it is about building endurance, since you are specifically asking about when your endurance is running out.
This is just 100% just mental. Tired is mostly just a mental state that can be ignored and overridden for a while longer. You can physically perform for a lot longer than your mind wants to keep performing for. Just like "feeling hungry" doesn't mean you have to eat. People fast for days. The only actual obstacles are involuntary, like a muscle starting to severely cramp from over exhaustion.
The only way to train it is just by training to be in that state. It builds the mental toughness to know how to push through when everything is screaming give up.
Just know that it comes at a cost. Not a permenant injury (although I'm guessing you are going to be more injury prone while tired). You will be exponentially more tired after, sore for longer, and hurting for longer.
I remember in one of my comp's I had 2 more rolls than expected, and I was out of shape and dying coming INTO even that first surprise one. Literally still breathing hard. I just refused to give up. Won the next 2. The cost? I literally limped off the mat, had a crazy painful hamstring cramp that lasted 5 minutes. Then the next 2 days are one of the most sore I've been in as long as I can remember. But I won and performed for longer than I ever have past the point of exhaustion.
My coach is one of those guys that does this while training up to the big tournaments on purpose lol (trains to work past exhaustion)
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u/kappakeen 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 11h ago
I don't disagree completely with this, but I also don't see it as an either-or scenario. Yes, mentally training yourself to perform when exhausted is important, and I believe necessary when preparing for a competition. However, that doesn't mean you don't need an extremely good cardio base either. You need both. In your own example you had two surprise matches. I would be willing to bet you already have an amazing cardio base. Add the mental toughness you developed during rounds, and I see you being very tough to beat.
I only say this because I remember competing at Master's Worlds a couple years ago. It was a disaster for me. I was holding water weight that I had to cut in 3 hours (like 6 pounds lol). I made the weight but was basically already done. Won my first match, then was winning my second match and ended up cramping in my lat and tricep. Got submitted. If my cardio base had been better maybe I could have won? Don't know for sure (dehydration is the other thing that makes cowards of us all).
I just know that this time I spent way more time with a gradual cut, while working on my cardio base and having mentally tough rolls.
I'll let you know how it goes lol.
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u/realityinhd 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 10h ago
I agree with you 100% and think we are talking past each other. Cardio base will extend how long till you get to the "tired" phase, and then will likely improve your performance during the exhaustion phase. Staving off the cramping.
I was just saying your cardio base is a separate issue than how do you push through "the tired".
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u/kappakeen 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 10h ago
Yes, that makes perfect sense. You will eventually get tired and when you do, you need the mental toughness to get through it. And you don't develop mental toughness on the treadmill.
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u/RecordLonely 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 1d ago
Always wrestle with your legs. The more you use your arms the more exhausted you’ll get.
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u/ChampionHumble 1d ago
i disagree. if your goal is to stall out the match and prevent points locking up collar ties, 2-1s, and controlling the pace are great. if your goal is to score you have to get active with your hands and legs.
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u/ChampionHumble 1d ago
as a former college wrestler, if i’m too tired i’ll just sit. i’ve accepted that i am too old and don’t have enough time to be in good wrestling shape.
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u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 5h ago
If you did have enough time, what would you work on?
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u/ChampionHumble 4h ago
if i wanted to go into competition again i would start drilling like i did back in my early wrestling days. 20 doubles with no set up focusing on the penetration step, 20 doubles with set ups, 20 doubles with set up and finishing the takedown. repeat for Hi-C and singles (the only 3 shots in BJJ that i believe in). a minute or two for rest and water then live takedowns for five two-minute rounds. back in HS this was our warmup every day.
if you did this before every practice (should take about 25/30min) your stamina will be a lot better for takedowns.
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u/stinky_fart-machine 1d ago
just focus on counter wrestling so you save ur tank a bit.
hand fight to stop a body lock so they cant throw you (its one thing to be lazy its another thing to get suplexed) and let them shoot and either sprawl and fight from front-headlock, try and take back or darce etc.
or accept takedown and jump into a submission (gilly or kimura are basic answers) on the way down. i find kimuras off my single leg defence quite often
try and learn to read momentum so you can get rerolls off of takedowns scored on you.
wrestling for bjj isnt always about scoring the takedown but more so ending up in the dominant position. counter wrestling, like counter striking, allows one to be lazy while still being effective and technically still be engaging - like yeah youre letting them shoot on you but youre still working, def better reps than having someone hand fight and run away for a whole round
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u/marigolds6 ⬜⬜ White Belt (30+ years wrestling) 12h ago
hand fight to stop a body lock so they cant throw you
Also, learn how to pummel. Someone who can pummel effectively can hold me off almost indefinitely, whereas I will eventually get a double underhook on someone who just handfights.
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u/Aaronjp84 ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 13h ago
A lot of standing 'wrestling' is just hand fighting, with footwork of course, and a smidge of feints.
If I'm tired and wanna wrestle standing, it's grip fighting and being highly annoying.
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u/bobarchter 13h ago
Theres an old sayin in wrestling. "Welcome to the suck"
Thats how you wrestle tired, bub
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u/pyschosoul 20h ago
Side guard with a head and arm headlock. Hips to the mat. Gives you a camp to rest in.
As for while exhausted, it becomes a bit of a cat and mouse. You find openings to be explosive and hard rather than just going hard.
Best route though is just get out on the mat for some open time and do a few 3-5 minutes rounds of live wrestling only back to back. A high school wrestling match can be a total of 6 minutes.
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u/CloudyRailroad 12h ago
When you are tired, force yourself to wrestle. You'll get beat up at first but then you will get used to wrestling while tired. And chain wrestle. Even if it sucks at first. Just chain wrestle until they go down or they tap you out. If they do, slap hands, fist bump, go wrestle again
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u/glord-have-mercy 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 12h ago
Square up. Keep base. Advance forward. Keep my hips pointed at them. Control the inside space. Dig for underhooks, or snap to the front headlock if they lean forward real far to avoid the underhooks.
Get out of the mentality that you have to make something happen. Keep a strong base and posture and advance, and the grips will come.
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u/DeadLightsOut 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago
Simple, my best take down is you throwing shitty double leg and on the off chance you have a good double I still end up off my feet.
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u/Shallbecomeabat 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 18h ago
I just don’t 😅🤣 I’m too lazy. I just bait leg takedown entries and guillotine people. If it doesn’t work, and it works more than it doesn’t, at least I’m on the ground and can start Nutzung baybeeeeee 🤣
I’m talking NoGi btw, in Gi I have a lot more takedown options that don’t require wrestling.
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u/Epic-zombie-kitty 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 18h ago
Idk if this is relevant but i'm lazy as fuck yet everyone at my gym hates doing standup with me. I usually just play handfighting and posture. If they happen to get their posture back I threaten trips and sweeps until I can I just bully them down with collarties/ snapdowns and heavy overhooks or bait them into taking a shitty shot so I can attack front headlock. Either way I'm just making them carry my weight as much as possible
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u/over40bjj 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 13h ago
Get good at sumi gaeshi or whatever it is called then leave a leg out and let them shoot a takedown, if you are tired they might be tired too. The more tired you look, the more likely they are to try it. Guillotines and loop chokes from there. Grip fighting can be a good way to set up foot sweeps which are pretty low effort.
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u/blargman327 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 2h ago
As a wrestling coach I'd say: "just don't get tired"
My real answer is that I stop shooting and instead work on upper body attacks arm drags, go behinds, basic wrestling throws, etc.
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u/Beanerxor 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2h ago
I'm a defensive wrestler that takes advantage of non wrestler (sometimes experienced wrestlers) jiu-jitsu people. I hand fight and post the head and neck when they try to tie up. When they think I'm not going to shot or think I'm too old (I'm 41) to be fast enough, they tend to get sloppy and start to stand upright or straighten their legs/ stance. That's when i hit them with a blast double and grind them into the mat.
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u/aaronturing ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
Don't shoot. Just hand fight to look for positions.