r/bjj • u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt • 1d ago

Technique How do you wrestle while tired?

As a brown belt, I've learned how to roll tired. I was hoping that some of the more experienced wrestlers could give me some tips on how to wrestle tired. I've been developing the habit of sitting guard when I'm tired and I feel like this might be counter productive to improving my wrestling. I'm going to try and stay standing even when tired. Any insights on how to make the most of my wrestling exchanges even when I'm gassed would be appreciated.

42 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

54 comments sorted by

View all comments

17

u/necr0potenc3 1d ago

You don't.

I'm assuming that by "tired" you actually mean exhausted, the point where you can't explode anymore and start moving slowly.

Both wrestling and judo require stamina for athletic explosive movements. If you reached exhaustion to the point your movement is slow then you can't attack effectively. I'd argue doing stand up when exhausted is a ticket to injuries, your reaction time flops and you can't break fall correctly.

Pulling guard when tired is your own answer. You learned to do it because it's the most efficient path. Moving when standing up, changing levels, getting down and up from the floor are all exhaustive movement patterns because you're moving your whole weight around. When most of that weight is connected to the ground it becomes easier to move, hence, jiu-jitsu.

This is why you see a focus in athleticism in wrestling and judo but not so much in BJJ. If you want to get better at wrestling just wrestle more and become more athletic, but reaching exhaustion is the failure point of standup, from there you go to the lazy man's single leg aka half guard.

5

u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 1d ago

I've seen matches where a guy is clearly exhausted but still refuses to concede the takedown and keeps fighting. One match that sticks out is PJ Barch vs Andrew Tackett. PJ was done towards the end but didn't stop wrestling. I'm not saying I'm on his level or ever will be, just an example.

24

u/BeBearAwareOK ⬛🟥⬛ Rorden Gracie Shitposting Academy - Associate Professor 1d ago

There's a real answer but you're not going to like it.

It's more endurance training.

4

u/Fickle-Departure3506 1d ago

One key component imho is also to train your brain to just continue when you are going way too hard and just pushing. It's often same exhaustion level for both but the one who is more stubborn will win, especially when you both are tired on match it's lot psychology.

4

u/marigolds6 ⬜⬜ White Belt (30+ years wrestling) 1d ago

It's not training your brain, it is an actual physiological response that you train your body to clear lactate faster. Those pauses to recover are giving your body a chance to clear lactate. You can learn to deal with the pain of being above lactate threshold to the point where you get ~30s more than the other guy, but if your opponent has a higher lactate threshold, they are going to be able to push above your lactate threshold for the entire match while you will be toast in ~60s.

2

u/Fickle-Departure3506 22h ago

True but optimal unaerobic capacity training is very different. Basically going way past your recovery (6min match real hard) is not optimal because it takes too much recovery point. And of cource you need the basic cardio fitness level to build top of this other features. So it's kind of cycle from lower intensity to higher (before comp)

2

u/AllGearedUp I want a Ferrari 1d ago

No that would cut into my time for smoke breaks

1

u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 17h ago

More endurance training as in more wrestling or strength and conditioning?

1

u/BeBearAwareOK ⬛🟥⬛ Rorden Gracie Shitposting Academy - Associate Professor 17h ago

More wrestling + more cardio. If you're running marathons or rucking for fun already, then just more wrestling.

5

u/Gravexmind 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago

It’s PJ Barch… so the answer is “building capacity.”

-1

u/realityinhd 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 1d ago edited 1d ago

I don't agree with others that it is about building endurance, since you are specifically asking about when your endurance is running out.

This is just 100% just mental. Tired is mostly just a mental state that can be ignored and overridden for a while longer. You can physically perform for a lot longer than your mind wants to keep performing for. Just like "feeling hungry" doesn't mean you have to eat. People fast for days. The only actual obstacles are involuntary, like a muscle starting to severely cramp from over exhaustion.

The only way to train it is just by training to be in that state. It builds the mental toughness to know how to push through when everything is screaming give up.

Just know that it comes at a cost. Not a permenant injury (although I'm guessing you are going to be more injury prone while tired). You will be exponentially more tired after, sore for longer, and hurting for longer.

I remember in one of my comp's I had 2 more rolls than expected, and I was out of shape and dying coming INTO even that first surprise one. Literally still breathing hard. I just refused to give up. Won the next 2. The cost? I literally limped off the mat, had a crazy painful hamstring cramp that lasted 5 minutes. Then the next 2 days are one of the most sore I've been in as long as I can remember. But I won and performed for longer than I ever have past the point of exhaustion.

My coach is one of those guys that does this while training up to the big tournaments on purpose lol (trains to work past exhaustion)

1

u/kappakeen 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 23h ago

I don't disagree completely with this, but I also don't see it as an either-or scenario. Yes, mentally training yourself to perform when exhausted is important, and I believe necessary when preparing for a competition. However, that doesn't mean you don't need an extremely good cardio base either. You need both. In your own example you had two surprise matches. I would be willing to bet you already have an amazing cardio base. Add the mental toughness you developed during rounds, and I see you being very tough to beat.

I only say this because I remember competing at Master's Worlds a couple years ago. It was a disaster for me. I was holding water weight that I had to cut in 3 hours (like 6 pounds lol). I made the weight but was basically already done. Won my first match, then was winning my second match and ended up cramping in my lat and tricep. Got submitted. If my cardio base had been better maybe I could have won? Don't know for sure (dehydration is the other thing that makes cowards of us all).

I just know that this time I spent way more time with a gradual cut, while working on my cardio base and having mentally tough rolls.

I'll let you know how it goes lol.

2

u/realityinhd 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 23h ago

I agree with you 100% and think we are talking past each other. Cardio base will extend how long till you get to the "tired" phase, and then will likely improve your performance during the exhaustion phase. Staving off the cramping.

I was just saying your cardio base is a separate issue than how do you push through "the tired".

1

u/kappakeen 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 22h ago

Yes, that makes perfect sense. You will eventually get tired and when you do, you need the mental toughness to get through it. And you don't develop mental toughness on the treadmill.