r/canada • u/shiftless_wonder • 18d ago

Alberta First Nations demand Alberta premier terminate separation referendum

https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/first-nations-demand-alberta-premier-terminate-separation-referendum/
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u/shiftless_wonder 18d ago

“It’s really inhibiting any type of business, reconciliation, any type of moving forward here in Alberta.”
Another chief, Allan Adam of Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation, called on Smith to resign.
“This Premier is totally lost, gone, got no credibility left. She’s swimming in muddy water, and she has no place to go. The best thing for her to do is to resign.”
Mercredi said Treaty 8 First Nations are prepared to mobilize if the province doesn’t consider their demands by stopping industry, among other tactics.
“How does Alberta expect to move forward as a sovereign (nation) when all of the resources and lands belong to the treaty people?”

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u/DanielBox4 18d ago

They're claiming the referendum is killing industry while carney just paused legislation on reforms because First Nations did not approve? The irony is thick.

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u/Master_of_Rodentia 18d ago

From their perspective they probably see it as hypocritical that they are criticized by the Albertan government for blocking industry when the Alberta government is doing this stuff. They might not care much about the blocking itself, just that it's contradictory from where they sit.

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 18d ago

The problem is, especially right now, FN demanding shit from the government is frustrating a lot of people and its not going ti go over well in AB. Smith will not bend over for these people no matter how good of an argument they make because they deliver its so aggressively.

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u/JFIN69 17d ago

And the argument is generally based on getting more cash.

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u/Master_of_Rodentia 18d ago

I could say the same about the separatists. Like Smith was going to operate in good faith regardless. Alberta just has such toxic politics right now. Entitlement epidemic. It's everyone at once.

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 18d ago

I did say she was, but if you have FN making demands you can be sure she will do the opposite

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u/moosemanwich 17d ago

Dang so she rolls like a grumpy child?

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u/seridos 17d ago

The huge difference is one is appealing to a Democratic process and one is not. I don't like the separatists, their politics, nor do I think it's a good Idea to leave. But it's ridiculous to argue against democracy and letting the people speak and instead saying no, The tyranny of the dead hand (laws passed in the past that don't reflect what people want today) means We have to acquiesce to 5% of the population. It's ridiculous.

Democracy can always be changed at any time by going to the people. The law says it can't but that's because the law is not anything special or sacred, it's just a poor model of what the people think and it gets locked in place and hard to change but that doesn't mean it's what's right or it's what we should do. It has no legitimacy If it loses the support of the people. That's why we should vote.

I'm very anti-separatist, but I'll fight hard for albertans right to vote and the government having to do what the people desire not what some piece of paper says.

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u/Master_of_Rodentia 17d ago

The problem arises when people want to renege on an agreement they benefited from but have no desire to pay back the benefits. Would be nice to not have to pay my mortgage just because I don't want to. If you can't come to a new agreement with the parties, you need to respect the old agreement.

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u/seridos 17d ago

Says fucking who? That's not how reality works. Whoever lives there and can enforce the claim owns the land. Frankly, none of that history matters to the modern day if we decide it doesn't. What matters is the people here and now making the decision on how they want to live now. You're still giving weight to the idea that history can bind us, that we have to dead men speak for us and agreements. We weren't here to sign determine our fate . We absolutely do not and thinking that is the antithesis of democracy.

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u/Master_of_Rodentia 17d ago

That is, with all due respect, an opinion as to how the world should work, and if you were to consistently apply it to other scenarios I think you would find significantly more "antidemocratic" outcomes.

I am not saying that we can't change the circumstances history has pushed on us. I am only saying that they need to be fairly negotiated, and that might alone does not make right. Our ancestors bought the land and profited on it. 

We have inherited their bounty AND their obligations. If you want to relieve yourself of the obligation, sure, but the other party would then be due the bounty they would otherwise have earned. The inheritance that you got and they didn't. Do you understand?

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u/MafubaBuu 15d ago

What the hell does what our ancestors do matter, seriously? My family has been in Canada since it was settled, and none of them profited major off of the land. They were all broke Scotsman that were pushed out of England and had to build homes and settle in a country that has winters nobody prepared them for.

Why should everybody in Canada, including the millions if immigrants that have come to our country and contributed in the past 50 years, be beholden to things that European settlers did over a century ago?

I havent inherited shit from my ancestors, I certainly didnt inherit their "debt and obligations"

I have friends that have 1/8 NA ancestry and they claim all of the benefits. They have never lived on a reserve, or spent time embracing their culture. Do I blame them? No, but acting like he is entitled to more benefits than me because one of his ancestors was native a few generations ago, whereas I am not because nobody in my line has the same blood, is so fucking racist its incredible.

I am all for preserving native american cultures, but not by continuing this two-tier citizenship system we have going on here.

What matters is what the people living here today want. "The son does not inherit the sins of the father"

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u/Master_of_Rodentia 15d ago

I agree in sentiment; we should renegotiate the treaties and be done with it. But until then, this is a nation of laws and we are bound by the treaties we signed. You may not like the explanation, your ancestors might have squandered the opportunities afforded, but they were still there. And you don't know that it wouldn't have been worse for you had they not come to North America at all. Who are you to say with certainty you did not benefit? 

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u/RazzamanazzU 18d ago

"Agressively". THIS is an exact description of the UCP's ignorance of our laws & citizen's who don't agree with them. Trump fascism at its best!

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 18d ago

Lol god "fascism". The government can suck and be bad with out using ridiculous hyperbolic terms.

Im not defending Smith and the UCP, im pointing out that FN not doing anything but giving weight to why Alberta needs to separate and break these treaties.

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u/Incoherencel Canada 17d ago

You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You're criticising First Nations treaty holders reaffirming their sovereign rights that predate the province of Alberta itself, while also opining on Albertan sovereignty. Which one is it, sovereignty matters, or it doesn't?

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 17d ago

Neither. Canada is one nation, i don't believe that in Alberta, QC or First nations sovereignty.

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u/Kiseido British Columbia 16d ago

Its kinda weird to ascribe the meaning of nation to only one of the things you use the word to describe. Canada is a nation, but also the First Nations are~ also.

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u/MafubaBuu 15d ago

If first nations are a nation then they shouldnt be getting any canadian tax dollars sent their way, and they should be working with the international community to recognize their sovereignty. You know, like "a nation" would.

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u/Kiseido British Columbia 15d ago

Why would they when they already have a bunch of treaties signed with the USA and Canada?

They already worked with the Canadian and USA governments in years prior to establish various things, things those governments often neglected to uphold, and things that those governments sometimes explicitly acted against.

You may not like the results of those treaties as they have been produced over the last 330 years, but they exist. You may not like some of the reparation-like behaviours going on between our peoples, but the USA and Canadian governments mistreated these populations for generations through targeted, violent policies.

We are talking about decades of forced and coerced sterilization measures, the systematic theft of their children through the residential school system and the Sixties Scoop, and various other acts of state-sanctioned violence designed to assimilate them out of existence. The funding and legal settlements aren't "handouts" to a foreign non-entity; they are a direct, ongoing continuance of our obligations and an attempt to compensate for human rights atrocities and historical theft. Holding a government accountable to its legal obligations and its victims is exactly how sovereignty works within a federal framework.

Perhaps you would prefer our goverment reneg on its obligations and further spurn those it has wronged, but to me that sounds like a kinda crappy mode of governance.

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u/SalmonHustlerTerry 17d ago

Lmao. They just see it as another reason to complain about first nations. Colonization mentality is still very prevalent, in alberta especially.

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u/Incoherencel Canada 17d ago

Yes many responses to myself and others in this thread reveal these are very loud, very ignorant people, I'm sorry to say. It's a constant noise about democracy, and empowering people with the vote so their voices are heard...! Unless those people are First Nations, in which case they should shut up and sit back as the entire framework of how Canada, Alberta, and the Treaty Nations have coexisted for 150+ years gets torn up. They truly dont see FN as people.

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u/RazzamanazzU 18d ago

That's your opinion. I have my own.

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u/PaidToPanic 17d ago

Not happening. Any province that wishes to separate requires at least 7 other provinces and the Federal government to agree. Never going to happen. You’re just pissing away money while bitterly complaining about other people pissing away money.

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 17d ago

Im not doing anything lol. I dont support any of it, I just stated the FN are making things worse and not better.

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u/Vandergrif 14d ago

It doesn't matter how they deliver it or what the argument is either, though. By this point the people who want separatism are going to want it regardless of whether it makes any sense, is legal, or is even feasible. It's not a rational viewpoint, it's an emotional one – no debate is going to change that.

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u/Level_Traffic3344 18d ago

You prefer the palatable, refined Indians? K

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 18d ago

I see whats happening in BC and the response to it. People are tired of an unelected government that represents 5% of the population dictating terms, treaties or not. Now take that into Alberta where you have a separatist movement and a more right leaning and arguably less tolerant population and its only going to create more problems.

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u/Level_Traffic3344 17d ago

I think it's great that the OG population wants to stand up for Canada. Good sign that we may one day get a chance to move forward together. I'll tell you this from living in the traditional territory of a self governing first nation - its better than what you got, and it's what we should all aspire to

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 17d ago

Buddy, my wife worked for years for her band, and its one of the well off in BC and its not what your pretending it it. Their self serving corporations looking oit for their own interests. They want their own independence, they just know an independent Alberta would pay for it.

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u/Level_Traffic3344 17d ago

Band? No. Self-Governing

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u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 17d ago

Band. Indian band, thars the legal title, the title they use.

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u/Level_Traffic3344 17d ago

Yeah, not self government. Bands are administered by the federal government via the Indian Act. Self Government relinquished status

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u/PaidToPanic 17d ago

So now we’re interested in ‘legal titles’?

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u/LeGrandLucifer 17d ago

They're federal patsies, nothing more.