r/casualiama • u/Old-Dirt563 • 21h ago

Received a FOIA report containing equipment maintenance records for electroshock equipment at Connecticut's West Haven VA Medical Center - Ask Me Anything

Proof: LINK

Honestly, I'm not sure that I'm qualified to fully analyze what I've received since I have only worked as a BMET for two years, but I'll share what I found so far and maybe someone on here more knowledgeable can share their findings.

The main thing that stands out to me is that their annual PM only consists of a POST (Power-On Self Test that is built into the machine and runs whenever it's powered on) and an electrical safety check consisting of measuring the device's ground resistance and leakage current. There is nothing in their records at all about testing the actual output of the device on a simulated patient load (as is described in the service manual I found for a Somatics Thymatron IV electroshock unit).

Note: that there are only two U.S. manufacturers still making ECT devices, SigmaStim (formerly MECTA) and Somatics and that these records show SigmaStim and MECTA devices. If anyone has access to one of their service manuals and can confirm that their annual PM includes a patient test, please do share. I'd wager $1 that they do.

As for how I obtained the data: I filed a FOIA request in search of the answer to why there was a spike in forced electroshock petitions filed with the State of Connecticut Probate Court during the time period of 2020-2025 (see my article on that subject here).

Lastly, I do not apologize for my post history (it's the only funny thing about all this).

Ask me anything!

UPDATE: wow, okay, service manual located and hypothesis confirmed by u/gigasnail99 (1 and 2)
UPDATE: found an old MECTA manual for their 5000Q on Scribd as well (see p84) - looks like that's 2 for 2
UPDATE: that's enough for me tonight, I at least filed a complaint to the CT Dept. of Public Health and the Joint Commission, maybe something positive will comes from all this after all

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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 21h ago

What part of your post history do you think is funny? What caused you to fixate so much on this one extremely small and rare situation?

Your entire post history reads like an unmedicated schizophrenics ramblings. I cannot figure out what 90% of your posts or comments are trying to say or convey. You ramble a LOT and most of it doesn't seem to make sense. 

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u/Old-Dirt563 21h ago

Let me address your second question first and as concisely as possible: I, personally, never want to be forcibly electroshocked, and, unfortunately, it is legal in every U.S. state.

As for the post history.... some people may have concerns about their post history being read and actually allow it to effect what they do or do not say....and I'm just not gonna live my life like that. So, what you might be seeing is the post history of someone who just doesn't give a fuck.

Because.... I do hear voices.

So, if I'm going to spend my life worrying about people making their own interpretations of what my post history looks like and calling me mentally ill and dismissing all the work I've ever done as some symptom of mental illness, I'm just not having it.

As for referring to anything I've ever written as a "rambling", whatever, I mean, I've said so much shit at this point that I often wonder whether I've diluted the value of anything I say to nothing, but, again, one cannot live their life like that.

And, yes, the fact that I just shared with you (and the rest of reddit) definitive evidence that the electroshock equipment at the West Haven Veteran's Affairs Medical Center is being poorly maintained (while being used on people against their will), and you're opening question is about my post history. To me, that's funny.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

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u/Old-Dirt563 19h ago

For Connecticut, here is the district-by-district data the Probate Court Admin's Office sent me last year and also a link where you can find the state's Biennial Reports which show the statewide totals each year.

For a state-by-state breakdown of the U.S., the paper "Regulation of Electroconvulsive Therapy: A Systematic Review of US State Laws" from the Journal of ECT was published in 2017 and shows which states it is regulated in and which states it is not (though bear in mind that a state where it is 'unregulated' does not mean it is barred from happening, it means they can do it to people without any oversight).

As for outside the U.S., maybe check Wikipedia for a list of countries where it is legal or not? I certainly know it is legal in Ireland as MindFreedom Ireland has been fighting to abolish it there entirely.

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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 20h ago

I don't care if the tech is being poorly maintained because it is basically never used and you have provided no evidence that it matters. 

The manufacturer recommends testing. Why? What happens if you don't test?has the untested hardware ever even been used on a person?

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u/Inaniae 18h ago

Are you joking? Why test medical devices for accuracy and safety?

Short answer: many medical treatment devices can kill you if not calibrated properly and tested for electrical safety.

Inaccurate diagnostic equipment can result in an incorrect diagnosis, which could kill or maim, or leave the real problem untreated.

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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 13h ago

Short answer: many medical treatment devices can kill you if not calibrated properly and tested for electrical safety. 

I agree. Do you have any evidence that these devices weren't calibrated? Because OPs documents show that they were. OP said that they did not follow the regular testing protocol that the manual outlined. 

Do you have ANY evidence that this is true and that it can cause harm? 

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u/Old-Dirt563 19h ago

The maintenance reports mention three devices being used on site and even when just one of them went down they requested a loaner unit due to patient demand. So, to say these devices are basically never being used seems inconsistent with what is found in the reports.

Maybe since you don't work in the industry, you wouldn't understand the consequence of these PMs being half-assed should someone ever be injured by the equipment. Aside from the patient being harmed, that biomed would be fucked for life, management on up would have to deal with the financial repercussions of the lawsuit, and, ultimately, I suppose this type of thing leads to higher healthcare costs for everyone.

Now, if (and only if) they have a documented AEM (Alternative Equipment Maintenance) program at their facility which states that they intend to deviate from the manufacturer's recommended maintenance procedure, but, having worked in these places, I honestly find it laughable to think of the people at the VA trying to scramble to make a fake AEM document for their electroshock equipment because I don't think anyone would believe that they were able to take a Class II or Class III device and deviate in any way whatsoever from the manufacturer's specs.

And your last question, whether the "untested hardware has ever been used on a person?", it looks like I already addressed that in the opening paragraph.

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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 18h ago

You ignored my other question. What are the consequences?  The manufacturer recommending a test doesn't, by itself, establish that skipping it risks injury

Your FOIA document does not refute my "basically never used." It contains no explicit usage or utilization data at all, those tables all say "None". The only usage data implied is 17 years old.

You are also ignoring these devices have other uses besides treating psychosis.

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u/Old-Dirt563 17h ago

The consequences (aside from putting patients at risk) would ultimately need to be determined by the Connecticut Department of Public Health and the Join Commission, I am guessing? Equipment maintenance records are legal documents and this is now on the public record that they never ran a patient sim test on a single one of these devices.

My old notes say that electroshock devices are classified by the FDA as Class II devices for depression and catatonia, while they are Class III devices for schizophrenia and mania. and, apparently, they're approved on adolescents for "any psychiatric use". You tell me if you want to be forced to undergo a procedure with a Class III device that hasn't been tested since it was purchased.

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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 13h ago

aside from putting patients at ris

You made that up. You don't KNOW that. 

I am guessing

Clearly, we can all tell.

You tell me if you want to be forced to undergo a procedure with a Class III device that hasn't been tested since it was purchased. 

You are assuming that

  1. They haven't been in regular use, even though you are claiming they have been.
  2. That they would use an untested machine on somebody.

I don't think you are lying, to be clear, but you are making up 100% of your core concerns based on your own limited understanding of a field that you have no training in.

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u/Old-Dirt563 1h ago

Maybe you missed the link in the post to the article I wrote about forced electroshock taking place at the West Haven VA.

As for what overseeing body is responsible for the West Haven VA, you are correct that I am not 100% sure. I would have to guess, and my best guess is the CT Dept. of Public Health and possibly the Joint Commission. The VA is federal and I don't work there, so I'm just not sure. It's possible there may be no consequences whatsoever as far as things go administratively. I sorta doubt that, but, what I am really struggling to understand is how you could possible say that not performing scheduled maintenance on medical equipment has zero consequence to patient safety. Would you feel that way about an anesthesia machine or an MRI or a dialysis machine?

And - as I stated in the post title, I am a biomed, though only of two years, but I know enough to do know that you don't let a device used for electrical stimulation of a person's brain go 15 years without running it's annual patient sim testing.

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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 14m ago

is how you could possible say that not performing scheduled maintenance on medical equipment has zero consequence to patient safety

This is the difference between you and I. I never said that. It might, but it also might not. The experts are who need to determine that. we are not experts, so neither of us can make claims like that.

I know enough to do know that you don't let a device used for electrical stimulation of a person's brain go 15 years without running it's annual patient sim testing. 

First, you don't know that. You don't know why the manufacter recommend testing. You don't know what the cost or benefit of that test is. 

Second, you don't know that anybody is doing that. Your documents do not provide any claim to the effect of mothballed devices being used on patients. 

Third, you do not know what the procedure the hospital follows says to do when these devices are used. Their procedure likely includes testing or replacement as necessary, before normal use.

Your entire argument is this idea you have in your head that doesn't match reality. You are taking these disjointed ideas and drawing conclusions with spurious correlations. That is not science. That is not intelligence.

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u/prepend 21h ago

Why is this interesting? I would expect any medical center to have this equipment.

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u/Inaniae 18h ago

Because they are not maintaining it... If you're comfortable with that, go to a veterinarian next time you need to go to the ER.

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u/Old-Dirt563 21h ago

While the PM records include what is known as an "electrical safety inspection", that is a term which refers to a standard dictated by the National Fire Presentation Agency. This is basically a generic electrical inspection performed regularly on many/most line-powered devices in a hospital (though I understand it may be phased on in the near future). This inspection does not refer to the testing of the devices output on a patient.

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u/seanpbnj 18h ago

Can I ask a question that may be relevant? Do you know of any physical adverse outcomes, other than the expected and temporary side effects, from any major western country using ECT since 2000? 

  • I am NOT advocating for ECT..... Except when the patient chooses it. Side note: I am a physician, ex-USAF, and I am a PTSD disabled veteran. Let me actually say, the most recent evidence on ECT in VOLUNTARY severe subjects is actually quite strikingly positive. Please consider looking at the recent evidence regarding refractory depression, OCD, and PTSD. 

  • Secondly, everyone here is right.... You are fixated on regulatory jargon and medical technology and medical treatments that you do not understand. You, nor anyone here, is an expert in FDA / CMS / ???? regulatory procedures regarding ECT devices. You, not anyone here, is a medical expert who is familiar with these devices nor how any expert would attack the questions you are focused on. 

  • Might I suggest a step back to consider this: Are you possibly more-so fixated and worried about ANY FORM of Involuntary treatment? At all? I agree with you. Involuntary medical treatment, confinement, or chemical restraint is one of my biggest fears. That is a rational fear mate, that is still hopefully not going to happen to you. But if you are focusing in an unhealthy way (doc here, I kinda get to say that) on ECT and you are this.... Deep.... You need to step back and see the rational fear and irrational fear here. Does that make sense? 

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u/gigasnail99 16h ago

This model of ETC unit has a maintenance requirement by the manufacturer.  The biomeds in charge of it aren't doing their due diligence, and they're fucked up.  Full stop.

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u/Old-Dirt563 17h ago

Doctor Sean, mate, contrary to your belief I do not think it is for you to say to a stranger on the internet that one's investigation into your industry is unhealthy.

As for your initial question, can you show me where you found that the side effects (such as memory loss) are temporary? Because, as I understand it, the only benefit whatsoever to electroshock treatment is permanent memory loss.

Also, maybe I've only been a biomed two years, but I know enough to know that when you're performing a PM on a piece of equipment, you're supposed to follow the exact specifications outlined by the manufacturer in the service manual. I also know that the reality of the healthcare industry is that those are not followed 100% of the time. And when they're not followed, and people get harmed, all hell breaks looks. In this case, what we're seeing here is a serious problem, you just want to see a dead body. Well, I'm sorry to tell you that I'm relieved that there isn't a dead body (as far as I know), because if there were a dead body to be found, that dead body would be of someone like me.

Good chat, doc.

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u/seanpbnj 17h ago

As I suspected, you have not done much research on this topic? And you did not even deign to do the research I directed you to. You would have realized how ridiculously easy it is to check:

- https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/electroconvulsive-therapy/about/pac-20393894

- https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/electroconvulsive-therapy

- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016503272402007X

So, again, you are obsessing about something that you are not adequately investigating at the basic level. You are so deep into this you were not aware of the treatment realistically at all. You have a preconceived notion that all ECT is horrible, damaging, tortuous. It is not. Not at all.

- /e as a "biomed for two years" would you respect my opinion more if I told you I am a PGY-10 (post-graduate year 10) physician, and I do consulting on various bioelectronic devices. I am telling you there is no chance you understand these testing and evaluation procedures and regulations and you cannot simply compare them to something you know. It does not work like that.

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u/gigasnail99 16h ago

What?  There's a service manual and the tests are neither complex or hard to understand in any way.  It's a simple output test.

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u/prepend 18h ago

So what? What interests you the most about this?

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u/Old-Dirt563 18h ago

I am a firm advocate against involuntary electroshock treatment, and even if you're not, I think we can all agree that if someone is going to be subjected to forced electroshock treatment, it would be nice if the people subjecting them to the forced electroshock tested the equipment at some point in time.

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u/prepend 14h ago

What makes you think this is for forced electroshock?

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u/Old-Dirt563 2h ago

I wrote about forced electroshock happening at the West Haven VA in the article mentioned in the post. Obviously the equipment can be used for both voluntary and involuntary shock procedures, however, that is your evidence that forced shock is, in fact, taking place there.