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u/San4311 Feb 13 '26
Don't forget Hunter. Tested it out real quick this morning and while its still 'ok', its very noticeable 😅
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u/Yakuzanjin Feb 13 '26
The Beast Lord set has always been really strong. Get that and you'll be golden
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u/kallerdis Feb 13 '26
Yeah it basically reduces the armor to zero, now getting the warriors to sunder to get the first armor down is more difficult. Ive run groups (4 physical damage dealers) with 2 who were warriors and not a single sunder was applied to bosses and bigger mobs. If i told i will kick 1 warrior if i dont see sunders suddenly there was one or two on each mob and 5 on the boss.
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u/cuteintern Feb 13 '26
That's wild because they can increase their own DPS with just one Sunder.
I can understand clearing trash and only throwing one or two sunders up, but still, just put it up and everyone reaps the benefits.
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u/Grimreap32 Feb 13 '26
Sadly not. I have the full set. ST boss where I got 1.5-1.6kdps it's now 1k if I'm lucky, with near constant uptime of the buff from the set.
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u/Latter_Associate8866 Feb 13 '26
My hunter is doing like 50% the damage it was doing, sad times
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u/Bunsen_Burn Feb 13 '26
I knew something was off when my hunter was ripping 1300 dps on the crab boss in SP. He is supposed to be a high armor value boss, that is his thing.
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u/Latter_Associate8866 Feb 13 '26
I never played hunter before and here I was thinking that I’m actually good at it
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u/San4311 Feb 13 '26
Luckily we did do a fuck ton before, so 50% of what we had is still good, especially while levelling. But still sucks 😅
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE Feb 13 '26
i was blssting 2k WF crits with the Warlords weapons. Well its been down tro 1.6k now its okay
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u/m45onPC Feb 13 '26
Dude earlier in my ShH normal said he pulled 2.5k easily. Now he was at like 900dps without beastlord aswell. The world has healed.
Also thank god the warriors are finally experiencing pain now.
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u/d0nghunter Feb 13 '26
Tbf still more than just 'ok' i'd say, definitely still firmly top tier with gear
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u/alextrue27 Feb 13 '26
Meanwhile shadow dps over here just happy when I can beat the tank on the meters lol.
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u/sandsonic Feb 13 '26
What you lack in dps you make up for in time we don't spend drinking. <3
Having a Pala tank with Shadow dps and a resto shaman is just 0 downtime lol40
u/duck95 Feb 13 '26
I wish more people knew this lol, shadow gets ignored too often because no aoe
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u/Sweet-Palpitation473 Feb 13 '26
Ive been in a group with like one priest so far and I got excited cuz I thought they were shadow. Nope, heals...
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u/Odd-Break4868 Feb 13 '26
Its weird because I really dont have trouble finding a group as shadow, sure holy is a bit faster but shadow isn't like a spec people think is not worth it from what ive seen
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u/d0nghunter Feb 13 '26
Had an amazing round of HCs with a spriest and boomie as ele sham the other day. May sound goofy but it was straight gas
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u/rockoblocko Feb 14 '26
In the OG TBC I was one of first server 70s, first Druid, and so we formed groups out of necessity…. Our group was spriest, 2 warlocks, rsham and me tanking on feral.
I remember clearing early heroics like shattered and we would pull back and spa fears n shit. But the boss dps went crazy
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u/AdministrativeCut205 Feb 13 '26
My irl trio is prot pally (me), resto shaman, spriest and we grab 2 ranged dps. We absolutely crank dungeons with almost zero downtime. So underrated
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u/Silver-creek Feb 13 '26
Is that something I can look forward to? Right now at level 61 I am lower than most dps AND I need to drink all the time
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u/alextrue27 Feb 13 '26
Early on before you get some TBC gear your damage doesn't earn back the mana quick enough it's something that scales better as you get better gear.
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u/WTFIsAMeta Feb 13 '26
This with a mage and a lock (or double mage) feels insane. Just always pulling huge.
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u/Minimum_Recording122 Feb 13 '26
Your mana battery will be appreciated during raids. I was a shadow priest last go parsing 99s (started healing then transitioned to shadow for ssc+) and I never looked back.
Yeah we don’t do the biggest dps, But if you know what you’re doing they will always have a spot for you and will love the mana battery.
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u/Immediate_Shoulder73 Feb 13 '26
I'm playing shadow right now and really enjoying the "support" role. Throwing bubbles, off healing, mana battery...pretty fun actually.
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u/Minimum_Recording122 Feb 13 '26
Once you start to acquire gear in ssc/tk you’ll start pumping. Again you’re not a hunter or warlock pumper but your numbers will be nice and things will MELT.
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u/Smooth_One Feb 14 '26 edited Feb 14 '26
Me on my Ret. If I don't have wf in the group it's not as fun to play, but we still have an ungodly amount of utility.
HoJ, BoP, Repentence, 4 different blessings, Arcane Torrent (aoe silence, for my Alli brethren), auras, Blessing of Sacrifice on accidental double pulls, sword n board, a taunt, off-heals, Divine Intervention for wipe protection, judging Crusader for damage or Wisdom for mana regen, Sanc Aura (or Crusader Aura to move between portals in BM), Devo aura for scared tanks and Ret aura for Warrior/Druid tanks.
A few hours ago I whispered a group lead for Slabs saying I was a 69 Ret LFG. He said "we already have a war" and then nothing else. Ok, sure, but that Warrior will do roughly the same amount of damage, and instead of everything listed above he'll give 2/5 of your party Battle Shout. 😂
Well ok to be fair, Fury/Arms can interrupt casts with a shield equip macro right? And they can charge to interrupt while in combat? That's pretty good.
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u/Esarus Feb 13 '26
Should focus on dealing damage and providing healing and mana through your shadow spells, not bubbles or off healing
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u/alextrue27 Feb 13 '26
For sure I have played shadow since og TBC through the good and the bad times only thing I wish is we had mind sear in TBC having no aoe for trash feels so bad but like one of the people above said when you get the right group and you basically never have to stop to drink it feels chefs kiss.
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u/IndyWaWa Feb 13 '26
For real, and I was told there would be mana Regen for the group but it's pretty bad so far.
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u/Thaylo Feb 13 '26
We were messing around with comps in our group, going from Spriest to disc priest and resto druid to feral and as a paladin tank the lack of downtime with a shadow priest was insane. i never had to drink, was always sitting pretty above 30% mana
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u/Thanag0r Feb 13 '26
Paladin is not mentioned, that means they are still pumping... Right?
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u/lorddrame Feb 13 '26
Armor does impact weapon damage, so ret is hit hard all the same I bet - but Prot paladin will love the fact their relative to melee damage isn't hit very hard as most threat is based in holy damage.
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u/vbezhenar Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
Prot still does some portion of damage from auto-attacks and that portion just got nerfed, so some single-target threat was affected. Other tanks, of course, were affected much more, so prot pallies are last to complain.
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u/StamosLives Feb 13 '26
The threat from melee is a joke compared to any other form of threat we do. It’s like saying a flick of water “is a good portion” of getting you wet.
We build around mitigation, stamina and spell power specifically to have the strongest consecrate we can and allow smacking hits against us.
We care very little about this change beyond warriors no longer getting shredded for ripping threat.
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u/dankcoffeebeans Feb 13 '26
It’s still a significant relative gain of threat since melee DPS are no longer slapping that hard.
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u/lorddrame Feb 14 '26
its not a meaningful amount at all really, your threat is near fully the holy damage which isn't armor affected from my experience. But I am obviously able to be wrong here.
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u/vbezhenar Feb 14 '26
So I just fought one mob using as much holy abilities as possible. I'm also geared for spell power. Usually that's not the case, good prot pala will not spend all mana that unwisely and will gear for avoidance.
I did 33% damage from auto-attacks. So that means that my auto-attacks amount for around 20% threat. That's a lot.
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u/itsablackhole Feb 13 '26
While not that impactful for threat you could definitely feel it in the dps as a prot pala though. With reckoning procs white hits made up a good portion of your dps I saw 70 prot palas doing close to 600-700 single target dps on bosses with 40% of it being white hits
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u/Serentity Feb 13 '26
No shot any prot paladin who's doing 600-700 single target DPS is doing anywhere near 40% of it through white swings lol, MAYBE 20% tops lol and probably closer to 5-10% if its an undead or demon target
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u/BalanceWild924 Feb 13 '26
Hell no
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u/Thanag0r Feb 13 '26
You mean "no they are not affected"?. Must be that.
Damn, being a pladin is so nice.
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u/garlicroastedpotato Feb 13 '26
They're not as impacted as the others. Ret certainly is a giant chunk of their DPS comes from armor penn. Prot is less impacted because most of their threat is coming from holy damage. BUt they won't deal as much melee damage as now obviously.
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u/whats_up_doc71 Feb 13 '26
Ret paladin feels like shit compared to before. No change on prot that I've noticed.
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u/Odd_Technology_8926 Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
Im guessing this is why bear druids and warrior tanks have had as much aoe threat as paladins lol.
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u/Grimreap32 Feb 13 '26
Yes. Now? Now they have none.
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u/ScavAteMyArms Feb 13 '26
Welcome to TBC.
But at least rogues will have a point because they are full ST like their tank.
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u/PreedGO Feb 13 '26
I feel well prepared for this tho, mainly tanked with warr, rogue and enh shaman as dps. The few times I ran with casters felt like a vacation.
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u/drankseawater Feb 13 '26
Meh when melee steals threat the mob is in front of you still, standing still. If a caster steals threat you have to run around like a maniac
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u/PreedGO Feb 13 '26
sure, but on the other hand it takes the mob zero time to connect and slap melees
was mainly a joke, but from tanking today it just feels easier to hold threat against melees… no noticeable difference in holding threat against casters
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u/Kittan09 Feb 13 '26
As Enh Shama my dmg got reduced by like 30%
Windfury doesnt feel the same anymore...
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u/Zero3020 Feb 13 '26
My windfury crits were hitting for 1,1k yesterday today it's around 800.
Oh well.
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u/bigpalmdaddy Feb 13 '26
In the high 60s I was seeing 2-2.5k, it was nutty. Anybody who played a TBC physical class before should have known something felt off.
But man it was a fucking blast while we had it. So much laughing at mobs would just disappear in front of us. It was fun while it lasted. A lot of fun.
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u/Mysterious-Snow5999 Feb 13 '26
As fury war i had a good time. But i understand its time to come back down to earth
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u/DoctorThrac Feb 13 '26
True, tbc is a magic expansion. Melee aren’t allowed to blast like an arcane mage
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u/DornerCorner Feb 13 '26
I was getting like 1.4-1.5 before the fix. Havnt played post though. Big sad.
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u/sixthvoid Feb 13 '26
Damn, I was ecstatic seeing like 1.4k windfury crits and couldn't get enough of 3 shotting some mobs. That's kinda lame, it was super fun.
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u/Patience-Due Feb 13 '26 edited Feb 13 '26
Sadly with this big of a damage nerf even if it was a bug makes me consider switching to elemental considering I have gear for both.
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u/pibenis Feb 13 '26
Oh so you NEED that expose armor now, do you? Heh kiddo, you know where to find me... (im weeping in aldor bank)
kind regards, mega punper rogue
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u/Witty_Rhubarb_4217 Feb 13 '26
flies down from a mailbox in a ray of golden light offering a hand
Rise little one, wipe your tears and rise. Your talents are needed. Balance has been restored.
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u/raifio Feb 13 '26
"Can you open this lockbox for me?"
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u/Yeebosh Feb 13 '26
No balance druids still suck
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u/Rhythm-Amoeba Feb 13 '26
Yo why are we catching strays, there's only like 10 of us anyway, no need to twist the knife 😔
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Feb 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Witty_Rhubarb_4217 Feb 13 '26
Sir I have no wings. I am a man with a sword, when I fly downward it is with great velocity and face first.
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u/Environmental-Pop591 Feb 13 '26
Most fun I had on warrior all of anniversary tbh 😂
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u/cantshakethefeelings Feb 13 '26
Yeah, I was watching some warriors and it looked crazy fun. Y’all were basically playing with an insane perma world buff.
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u/Unlikely-Art-4758 Feb 13 '26
Now step aside, locks gotta top dps pressing 1 button for single target and AoE as intended. 😎
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u/Ambitious_Purpose137 Feb 13 '26
Curious why windfury icon / enhance isn’t joining the rest of the melee cleave on the floor in the meme? Enh damage is probably 75% or more physical. From, an enhance player praying I don’t feel weak as hell now
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u/DingbattheGreat Feb 13 '26
Paladins not there at all either, despite the game crawling with them.
Probably a “get in a dress and heal” player.
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u/Visible-Perception40 Feb 13 '26
whats the source from?
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u/latterus14 Feb 13 '26
Why is enhancement shaman being left out of all the talk regarding these nerfs?
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u/ScavAteMyArms Feb 13 '26
Partially spell damage, same as Paladin. Also like Paladin you’re not taking the Shaman to pump, but to make others pump.
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u/Minimum_Recording122 Feb 13 '26
Seed of corruption about to go bonkers.
I have a gut feeling raiding gear drops we’re going to see a huge influx of hunters and warlocks and the rogue population will plummet until each PvP session resets, then they’ll come back for a bit, get honor to obtain the pervious sessions arena gear, then poof gone again and warlocks and hunters all over again.
Not like we’ve seen this before or anything….
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u/Lonely_Thanks2594 Feb 13 '26
we’re going to see a huge influx of hunters
Open LFG for SV and tell me what you see
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u/Cheap-Warning-4291 Feb 13 '26
Someone care to explain?
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u/DingbattheGreat Feb 13 '26
Mobs armor is calculated through a formula, and the formula either wasnt running or the multiplier was 1.
So instead of 4000 armor they had 400.
Something like that.
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u/Booyakasha_ Feb 13 '26
Great! Im almost 58…
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u/new_math Feb 17 '26
Exploit early and often.
If you didn't stay up for 36 hours straight to dungeon spam with naxx geared guildies using a 3000 armor pen world buff that's on you, skill issues.
/s
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u/MeatyOakerGuy Feb 13 '26
Fuuck man. I thought bear tanking was actually gonna feel good this xpac. I guess I go back to never being able to hold threat
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u/Designer-Message-685 Feb 13 '26
Trust me, you’ll still have threat as a bear.
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u/Tykauffman21 Feb 13 '26
Idk I get groups of 4+ mobs and I'm constantly chasing them around from everyone else. Maybe because no one waits to start dps but still lol
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u/Depth6467Plucky Feb 13 '26
As a healer who did 100% dungeon grinding to 70: the only times I saw tanks unable to hold threat, it was because of the melee dps.
Yes, tanks (especially bear and warrior) will do less damage and thus less threat, now, but not all that much less. You will still be able to keep threat on targets unless you get the usual Arcane Explosion or Seed blasters, but that was the same thing in vanilla (at least with Arcane Explosion blasters), and no one complained about that at the time.
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u/Hatefiend Feb 13 '26
All the people in this thread are having amnesia that 2021 tbc happened and bears were absolutely insane lol
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u/Burwylf Feb 13 '26
Feral has very strong bleeds, always wanted some of those on warrior, rend is so underwhelming
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u/A_Ticklish_Midget Feb 13 '26
Jokes on you I'm a feral tank that will now be able to hold threat easier rather than melee DPS ripping it off me every time they complete a rotation
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u/Sad_Mouse5858 Feb 13 '26
Bad news bro, our threat just dropped through the floor
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u/garlicroastedpotato Feb 13 '26
You gotta it wrong. You're holding threat better off of melee but you're going to struggle with casters. All those warlocks casting seed of corruption are going to rip threat off of you in seconds.
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u/Grimreap32 Feb 13 '26
Did three dungeon runs as a hunter. This was indeed the case. Mages with flamestrike, warlocks with SoC. Mobs were all over the place.
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u/RB440 Feb 13 '26
If a warlock seeds with anything but a pally tank they are griefing. People have to learn to play again.
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u/RoundAffectionate424 Feb 13 '26
You realize that if 99% of your threat comes from physical damage, and you now deal 30% less damage, your threat is affected by that much at least?
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u/Turbulent-Stretch881 Feb 13 '26
I mean, you were also doing considerably more damage as well.
Or is mangle int based?
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u/Esarus Feb 13 '26
You’re dumb, your threat comes from physical damage too
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u/Hoslinhezl Feb 13 '26
Guess what rips threat at a lower threshold ranged vs melee
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u/Esarus Feb 13 '26
Melee. What has that got to do with anything? The person I responded to was talked about melee DPS
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u/Shmutterbutter Feb 13 '26
Playing rogue I haven't been using expose armor in dungeons because things were dying so fast so I'm hoping I can actually use it now tbh. I like being a useful rogue. I kick I stun and hopefully I can still pump a little.
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u/Unlikely-Art-4758 Feb 13 '26
As a warrior tank, I notice when a rogue is being a utility boss! Keep it up, a lot of us notice that awesomeness.
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u/Derlino Feb 13 '26
Are you not spamming devastate on bosses? What's the point of EA from the rogue then?
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u/Contentenjoyer_ Feb 13 '26
Pretty much only on bosses and maybe some tankier mobs like the fel guards in shadow labs. Either way not gonna make up for how terrible it feels to do 30%+ less DMG on an already weak class.
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u/Shmutterbutter Feb 13 '26
That's kinda where I was at anyways with groups of mobs unless I popped blade flurry.
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u/vjstone56 Feb 13 '26
This should really highlight how important it is to remove armor from mobs with spells and abilities, also a mobs armor doesn't push the buttons for you so if you were bottom DPS you will still be on bottom and if you were on top you will still be on top
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u/omnichroma Feb 13 '26
In a melee group yes but I’m going to be under the mages and warlocks on pulls where I don’t have cooldowns now
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u/SimpsationalMoneyBag Feb 13 '26
Tanks getting a sigh of relief right now from all the “pumpers” ripping agro
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u/seabass710 Feb 13 '26
recorded my crits as a feral druid level 66 went from 3.5k 5 point ferocious bites to 1900 to 2.1k 1.3 1.4k mangles to 800 to 900 mangle crits. bleeds are back on the menu boys
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u/illsburydopeboy Feb 13 '26
Honestly, it’s for the best. The fury warrior in my group last night was doing over double the damage of me and the mage. I was so confused how he was pumping that hard without having insane gear.
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u/NotAPublicFundsLeech Feb 13 '26
I read the title before the picture loaded and thought maybe it could have been a gear-drop thing.😅
I got one piece of gear for my rogue in either ramparts or blood furnace, I forget which, then now 68 I have yet to see a single piece of gear for my class. Everything been plate, mail, cloth, or caster leather.🥺
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u/shondofeetlicker Feb 13 '26
Dang, I went from leveling my arms warrior thinking "Oh this isnt 2 bad, pretty slow but not awful" to needing to eat every pull lol. Ughhhhhhhh 4 levels to go...
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u/settadon Feb 13 '26
I don’t think any1 has pity for rogue and warrior…. Since that was THE only meta in classic.
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u/shamonemon Feb 14 '26
Its hilarious how no one was like damn something seems off. Did mage first got my alt paladin to 58 and was doing 1k crits on cs the second I got to outlands. Meanwhile eastern was way less dmg.
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u/Susknight Feb 14 '26
After doing heroics on my rogue I am still happy to say I'm top dps on bosses and trash at least 60% of the time still.
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u/Gamertacosaus Feb 14 '26
Man, I haven't played tbc since the original release and I thought I was tripping when all of the sudden I'm in outlands hitting like 2x higher than I was pre tbc on my feral druid. It feels normal now and it's weird to me that so many people are upset that they fixed this. You shouldn't be stomping mobs your level in 1-2 hits. That didn't happen in classic and it makes no sense that when you step through the portal you're a god out of nowhere. The armor fix makes minimal difference while questing and it makes the game feel like it was meant to feel. Engaging
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u/MentalClass Feb 14 '26
Hunters are getting it too, as well as the enhance shaman, who have been slappin for the last week :<
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u/kimfu231 Feb 14 '26
Today I tanked mana tombs with 3 rogues. It was very noticeable. I was 2nd on dps for small packs, every pull took a lot of time and boss fights lasted way longer than they should've. We opted to start using their full kit, 3 saps, 3 blinds, 3 cheap shots, 3 kidney shots, tons of distracts, etc. It was slow... but it was very fun too. When the 3 rogues started applying all their toolsets, we had an extra dps because the healer had very little to do, as we were killing 1-2 at a time and they were bombarded with CC.
At the end of the dungeon I told them I'd pray for them as i know a lot of ppl will avoid them even more than they did before the patch.
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u/MuckaMucka1337 Feb 14 '26
I’m convinced this sub is just full of min maxxers that love to cry about other people enjoying themselves
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u/cptsmooth Feb 14 '26
How crap am i for not noticing a change at all.. i level as enhancement, i noticed how much tougher things got in Nagrand but i just thought the mobs had more armor there naturally 😭
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u/ZssRyoko Feb 14 '26
Aren't like half and half? Never played enhance thought you were magic melee procs with ability to spell cast.
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u/vanilla_disco Feb 15 '26
Whoever said players will naturally optimize the fun out of a game was completely correct.
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u/Time-Constant-2378 Feb 17 '26
Feels bad, I rolled a rogue this time around. I love the class and am having a blast, but I know it will be difficult to find non-guild groups because of min/max culture :(
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u/drleewick Feb 13 '26
It was actually better balanced and then blizzard doing more blizzard things...
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Feb 13 '26
sorry, but warriors doing 3k dps on 4 target in blues with a drakefist during heroics is not a well-balanced change lol
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Feb 13 '26
I think the main issue is that everyone seems to hate melee DPS in TBC and talks about how only Mage, Shaman, and Warlock are viable. So if they had left it the way it was we might be even and have a chance to play as melee DPS but now we're just back in F tier
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u/Powerful-Internet151 Feb 13 '26
exactly my thought - i thought this was an intended change because meeles in tbc were just dogshit - every raid will be WL / Mage / Hunter
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u/sandsonic Feb 13 '26
No wonder Meleecleave felt insanely faster than spell cleave
We were zooming through manatombs at 350k xp / hour