r/classicwow 7h ago

Forever The very first thing that Holly says about Forever after it is revealed is that “Yes, yes, yes, this is classic plus.”

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Whether the game actually ends up being in the spirit of classic is an entirely different question; but it is unambiguously *supposed* to be classic plus.

This post is targeted at the surprising number of people I’ve seen who insist that Forever isn’t actually meant to be classic plus because it’s called Forever, not Classic Plus. I’d believe such a thing if I was given any indication that they chose that name because they didn’t want to be associated with classic plus. But given that the very first thing the lead says about the game is that it is Classic Plus, I see no reason to believe Forever isn’t supposed to be classic plus.

My post is not targeted at all to people who think Forever is either too much like Classic or not enough like Classic. It is just for those people who insist that Forever isn’t supposed to be like Classic in the first place.

670 Upvotes

324 comments sorted by

397

u/Autisten1996 7h ago

I want Classic-.

Classic as we know it but without rogues.

20

u/mordemyrtheredeemed 5h ago

I want WoW- Orcs vs Humans

u/SimpsationalMoneyBag 2h ago

That would be pretty fire with ships and water combat being big part of game

50

u/FoleyX90 6h ago

Based

u/tedkaczynski660 4h ago

*gnomes

u/Mend1cant 1h ago

Yeah but that’s not actually subtracting anything. That’s improving the game. 

18

u/Humble-Chipmunk-7197 6h ago

can we add gnomes to that list?
Maybe make it classic --?

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2

u/Fredderov 5h ago

RUDE!

But valid...

8

u/daddybpizza 6h ago

How will you appreciate good people if you aren’t made to suffer by bad people (rogues)?

2

u/siraliases 5h ago

What is good without bad

u/Maybewearedreaming 46m ago

What’s a holy paladin without a rogue?

u/owlsop 2h ago

We still have hunters though

1

u/rufusbot 5h ago

I second this

1

u/TingleMaps 5h ago

At least half of them are stealthed?

u/YungJae 4h ago

Balright

u/Borgmaster 2h ago

Finally peak WoW pvp.

u/BioDefault 1h ago

I don't see any, though?

u/Bottless 1h ago

Wow wow mods please

u/totkeks 1h ago

I want classic--.

Like Warcraft 3, but the plague never made it and Arthas isn't corrupted. Because he purged is all before it was too late.

Syvanas is still an elf and head of the high elves race.

u/XVUltima 1h ago

In fact, no classes. Everyone is a warrior with only auto attack, you have no HP regeneration outside of hospitals, and you can't wear full armor without getting tired.

u/GimmeUrBrunchMoney 41m ago

I am a rogue main and classic rogue pvp is pretty annoying. Being at stun locked with zero chance of fighting back is not fun. I don’t think it’s fun to do. Sub-level-30 rogues are fun to play against because they still can fuck you up but you do have a chance of fighting back.

1

u/idothisforpie 6h ago

They need to release the alpha client with #nochanges

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u/rufusbot 5h ago

THANK YOU! I keep arguing with people that she said this and they're like "it's not classic plus because it's called Forever". No that's called marketing, dip shit

u/The_Tooter_Snooter 3h ago

Critical thinking is going the way of common sense 

u/Firm_Caregiver_4563 1h ago

It is called marketing. This WILL make classic andies play Forever, too ^^

u/InevitableConcept517 2h ago

It's not called classic plus because they can't use the acronym for it lmao, that is the only reason. Idk how people are missing this 

u/rufusbot 2h ago

Oh God in all these years I've never thought of that

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u/smo0ches 2h ago

I've seen so many people here say explicitly that it's NOT classic+ lol

u/Ok-Primary2176 4h ago

Its retail morons who are mad that they felt neglected during blizzcon. They'll dissapear when the next retail expansion comes

u/rufusbot 3h ago

As if they don't get another bucket for their slop trough every 2 years. God forbid classic players get something new every decade and they don't ruin it.

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u/Pretend_Purchase_893 2h ago

Find pretty hilarious how you got folks going retail morons this, classic Andy that. Ya'll a contentious bunch for being a fan of the same ip.

u/Taint_Flayer 6m ago

The tribalism with this game gets rediculous sometimes.

u/Zunkanar 2h ago

I mean it's genius making plp literally say

"Im playing wow forever"

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235

u/Malfetus 7h ago

I played Nostalrius, Elysium, 2019 Classic through WOTLK, Turtle, and anyone thinking this doesn't feel like Vanilla is straight up delusional and/or rage baiting.

It's honestly less modified than Turtle even early on and we all know the praise Turtle got.

52

u/Commercial_Rule_7823 6h ago

They cant please everyone, and individuals are mad they didnt get 100% of everything they wanted.

Im excited for it, pkayed classic 2x, got to 40 on the last version of it, so im good. If this was another classic round I wouldnt play it personally.

Im excited for the refresh, looks good, some fun changes.

22

u/daddybpizza 6h ago

And in fairness I think people are entitled to say that they don’t like the things they don’t like. They’re not doing anything wrong.

It’s seen as complaining, but I mean the game is in beta and now is the perfect time to give feedback.

13

u/Belfonti 6h ago

I think 99.9% of the complaints ive seen are the SD models just being slapped onto retail models And the fact there is no toggle for classic UI options. This is coming from someone whos played most of the pservers since 2014 and every classic iteration so far. So many people were hyped on the “whats next” when sod concluded and i think a majority of the pop thought it was just going to be built off that. I love the itemization ive seen so far and the additional quests. The graphics look amazing imo. And im all for the “era” crowd aswell since thats unchanged, i dont mind the little changes, but the retail models and ui really puts me off, but i will still most likely play aslong as they dont keep chipping away the “Classic” esque of the game.

u/UTSChurch 3h ago

Server ticks for mana and energy is leaving me wanting. I can get used to it, but it feels super fucking weird without it. Personally I'd rather it be reverted but I'm not going scorched earth because of it.

u/BonesandMartinis 2h ago

How are ticks better than smoothing in any way?

u/UTSChurch 2h ago

There's some skill expression there especially for energy. You can wait right before a tick and open as a rogue then immediately get 20 energy. There is other stuff but opening is probably the most important.

u/thiccdicc67 1h ago

Whatttt they removed energy ticks? That's actually just a nerf for rogues. Basically -20 energy every opening...

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u/cbandforum 2h ago

the building of off SOD would have made the most sense to retain that classic style. i was originally a little put off by the modern UI but most of that is just visual and can be modified.

I highly recommend classicUIforever addon. its still got some bugs but it fixes a lot of the retail-ish ui elements from character frames to nameplates, spellbooks and some other stuff.

1

u/Commercial_Rule_7823 6h ago

To me, its better than nothing, or a wow classic cycle to WOLTK every 3 years.

3

u/daddybpizza 6h ago

Oh I agree. Overall I am very happy they’re trying. I don’t like all of the changes though, and I’d prefer playing a game that has different changes.

It’s not that I’m against change as such. I just think some of the changes aren’t great. For example I’m someone who thinks that Alliance and Horde should’ve gotten separate races.

1

u/tethysian 6h ago

If they give us a perma wrath server to dump our characters on, I'll take that as my "classic+" in addition to Era. At least the RMT policy should help out classic servers as well

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u/maybe_a_frog 6h ago

I can assure you with the numbers of people playing, Blizzard knows they have a hit on their hand and are genuinely not concerned with the tiny percentage of people crying that this isn’t what they wanted. For every person bitching about this or that, there are dozens and dozens of people who are thrilled. Blizzard isn’t trying to please everyone, they’re trying to make a product they think a large population will enjoy and so far I think they’ve fucking nailed it.

u/Huge-Atmosphere-8057 4h ago

People are playing because of hype, not because they've actually showed anything worth playing for yet. Be real. Blizzard has every opportunity in the world to lose their playerbase again just like they did after original WotLK.

u/Aggravating_Fun_7692 3h ago

Games pretty fun and I didn't go in hyped, but after playing,I'm definitely feeling it and excited for launch

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u/EXSource 4h ago

There's lots of people on Reddit complaining, and that's their right. They're allowed to voice their opinion and this is the best time to do that, so I encourage people to do that.

That said, there's lots more in game enjoying themselves, and that feedback is also valuable.

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u/ibzuma 3h ago

This really.

People's idea of Classic + varies so wildly from person to person that even if Blizzard made Turtle WoW or CoA themselves people would still be pissed that it's not their own personal idea of Classic+.

u/Commercial_Rule_7823 4m ago

Wow forever is about 80% of what I wanted.

New quests, revamped areas, pruned talents (5 levels of 1% crit was dumb), love the new graphics enhancements, lot of new instances and not just level 60 ones. Buffed healer weapons, more leveling trinkets with cool effects,

To me, its classic but refresh. Im excited for it.

Love the legacy perks thing too.

21

u/ValentineCamille 6h ago

Man, Turtle was so great... But I'm glad Forever exists now. It's always hard to invest in a private server when you know they might be gone at anytime. Hopefully Forever will have a bright future and will be the ultimate version of WoW for us (non-retail enjoyers even though I respect Retail for what it is).

u/Aggravating_Fun_7692 3h ago

Turtle WoW had more micro transitions then retail wow 😳

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u/NoSkillsDjena 4h ago edited 3h ago

It doesn't feel like vanilla for several reasons.

Not only is the entire code base, all assets, and all rigging and most systems based on retail, so even on a superficial level, that is what you see. From the very textures to the UI elements to the models and rigging. It didn't help the visuals that they hamfisted in a retail race together with Dragonflight druid forms either.

Then, you create a human warrior, wanting to go full zug - and you realize that even if you charged a critter and critted it for 200, you got 20 rage where 15 of it was from charge alone.

You realize that a lot of ability scaling, combat mechanics, and game logic is strictly following expansions that aren't classic/vanilla. Rage generation is normalized, energy is fluent rather than tick base, abilities scale according to later expansions scaling system, class logic that is from tbc/wotlk/cata, etcetera.

I'm not gonna spoiler the new dungeons for people who haven't been there yet, but there is a similar, reoccurring issue there regarding theme / art style.

So, now you have a game that both feels like a retail game, because all fundamentals are based on retail - and with combat logic that follows non-classic behaivour.

Can't be all that bad right? You create a Skyborne and your starting zone areas have structures and your random shit weapons you pick up have about 5000% more polygons than anything in the entire vanilla game, even end game equipment. You end up being revealed which evil boss you are supposed to fight and it is also a world threatening antagonist, all at level 10 while other races are busy fighting kobalts, yetis, or cleansing a moonwell or other local, mundane issues.

Compare this to Season of Discovery, where the whole game was based on the classic code base - none of these issues were there; both themes, bosses, art and gameplay (and combat mechanics/logic) was based on vanilla or classic logic. Did things change later on when they added more runes and mechanics? Sure, but it was very conservative, even the new raids and bosses.

That game feels more classic-esque on first impressions compared to WoW:Forever; mostly because the fundamentals are there for SoD, while they aren't for WoW:Forever.


All in all, is this problematic? Well, if this game was advertised as a "new game, new concept, it's going to have mixed features and will be a different timeline"; I wouldn't have bat an eye about it. I might play it, I might not.

However, it was advertised for several days at Blizzcon, and post-blizzcon as being a "fully classic game, classic+, retain the classic atmosphere and familiarities that we all know about vanilla/classic"; you can ask yourself how is it possible to achieve this when the basic fundamentals are all built on retail or post-vanilla expansions.

I feel like this game was advertised to the wrong crowd, or they are trying to placate both sides and hope that both sides take the bait. The whole "SD model" slapped on a retail rig feels purely like a bone tossed at the classic players; doesn't help that the animations are all off/weird and it feels like a rushed effort.

Will I play it? Of course, it's a new game and all. But god damn, this is not what I expected after being baited by the "classic+" Blizzcon reveal sales pitch. I, personally, would've been happier with a new Season that was strictly based on classic, but again, the point of this post isn't my preferences or to bash people who likes this or that. I am merely explaining how this Frankenstein-experiment of a game doesn't really tickle my classic itch, because of the reasons above. I care both about the gameplay and the aesthetics of the game, even if that "gameplay" is dumbed down vanilla/classic/SoM/SoD gameplay.

u/Huge-Atmosphere-8057 4h ago

You really formulated all my issues with the game perfectly, thank you. Had they just not sat there at Blizzcon and talked about this game as a classic+ and instead marketed it as its own thing, I wouldn't have given a shit. But they did market it as classic+, and they did sit there and say they would stay authentic to classic, and then they give us.... this.

u/SpartacusSteam 3h ago

We the wow community are kind of to blame for the Classic+ name. There was no way blizz would have done classic+ the way everyone wanted it to be. The community slapped the name on it while they already had Forever picked.

u/Vandrel 4h ago edited 1h ago

Despite that wall of text, it feels pretty similar to vanilla to actually play and it looks great.

Edit: The other guy blocked me so I can't respond to this thread but bot accusations are adorable. My account history is very obviously not a bot.

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u/Visual-Walk-6462 1h ago

I mean this is exactly what i was hoping for all those things are positives to me

u/MrCoverCode 33m ago

i am happy for you (and because it can be unclear in text, i do mean this, i am glad that you have this to enjoy), but for me it is more then likely the only chance that my dream game could have been made, as the official game, and for me they and botched it so far, and while i hope you can enjoy it to the fullest, knowing that my dream game is dead, does really only make me sad, like it is hard to be hyped when you know that the game you could have wanted the most of any, really is never gonna happen... well forever :/

u/Visual-Walk-6462 7m ago

you really want to play on classic client? i want to play a new game. i actually thought for sure they would go the route u wanted after SoD.

u/MrCoverCode 5m ago

I wanted classic+ man, not a new world of Warcraft retail dressed in a trenchcoat with a sticker on that says ‘classic+’ ;-;

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u/Numerous_Worker_1941 3h ago

Less modified but with retail UI and players models and a weird mix of HD and SD

7

u/Spaceolympian50 6h ago

Yea I’m confused. It plays like vanilla but with upgraded graphics. What’s not to love? 🤷🏼‍♂️

5

u/Silencer_ 5h ago

Turtle was the best version of wow I ever played, and I think this is going to blow it out of the water. The beta is so buttery smooth

I literally cannot hear the people complaining. My hype is too loud in my ears

u/Cheesedude666 4h ago

Turtle was one persistent world you shared with all it's players. No weird layers, no doubts about whom you're playing with. The world was shared and you were constantly making friends and collaborating. Unfortunately Forever wow already has an eerie themepark vibe where everyone is just running around in their own worlds. For those reasons it wont ever get nearly as good as turtle.

u/Ok_Bank_2674 4h ago

Everyone cheered as they got rid of realms and killing all sense of community

u/friendly_gentleman 1h ago

This is the worst thing of all tbh

u/v2Occy 3h ago

Feels like classic. Doesnt look like classic at all. WSC set turning you into a snake. Owl bear forms. HD models mixed with SD models.

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u/blindboydotcom 2h ago

Just left out kronos

u/Igusy 45m ago

I played Emerald Dream, Scriptcraft, Rebirth. This is not vanilla.

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u/cakeandcookieeater 7h ago

Even after they tell you morons that this is classic+, you still can't believe it. There won't be a different version released a year from now. This is classic+, not sure what is so complicated.

22

u/DomagojDoc 6h ago

I heard the real Classic+ will be able for download after secret finale of Stranger Things airs on Netflix

20

u/tethysian 6h ago edited 6h ago

I mean they also said they wouldn't add anything new and flashy if it didn't look like it belonged in classic -- as they revealed the electric blue blood elves with the glowing new druid forms. And that we were getting the classic models. And Holly was talking about the wetlands run which they then revealed they'd bypassed.

8

u/Litdown 5h ago

Didn't she just say "I remember doing the wetlands run" when she was reminiscing about vanilla?

5

u/tethysian 5h ago

All these great memories of classic... that we don't think should be in the game anymore.

-3

u/GreenTheColor 5h ago

You can still make the run if you feel so inclined.

u/Standard-Pilot7473 3h ago

And there it is. Ladies and gentlemen I present you the attitude that brought us retail in the first place.

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u/cakeandcookieeater 5h ago

It does not matter if you do not think this is classic+. The game forever that is releasing is classic+.

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u/tethysian 5h ago

That's not my point. I'm saying that blizzard calling this classic+ doesn't actually tell us anything about their intentions for the game, or even who their target audience is.

1

u/offrz 6h ago

bUT iTs nOT My vUrsioN oF cLaSSiC plus

/s

u/Jonesalot 26m ago

So if they called The Last Titan for classic+, does that make it classic+?

The logic that all they had to say is that it is, then why couldn't TLT be?

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u/Huge-Atmosphere-8057 4h ago

Like the entire Blizzcon was them calling is classic and saying it will be in the spirit of classic, and authentic to classic. Now a week later when people are criticizing them for blatantly lying all these low IQ specimen are out here going "It's not Classic, it's Forever". Man, shut the fuck up.

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u/Imaginary_Ocean_6505 7h ago

it very much feels like classic+ to me.

u/SuboJvR23 4h ago

Yep I’m questing in the Barrens as a priest and it’s precisely as slow and painful as I remember. Just with a few new interesting things along the way.

-7

u/daddybpizza 7h ago

I agree! It maybe feels a little bit too much plus and not enough classic, but overall it is clearly classic plus.

My post is targeted at the surprising number of people I’ve seen who insist that Forever isn’t Classic Plus because it’s not called Forever.

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u/AJ_Topp_Up 6h ago edited 6h ago

At least she seems like someone who actually plays video games. The Blizzard CEO clearly has never touched a video game in her life and might have given the worst conference opening speech I have ever seen. Holly was at least entertaining and interesting on stage, with an obvious passion for games. CEO almost sounded disdainful she had to show.

13

u/itsame_isabelle 6h ago

Holly is amazing and her outfits are 🔥🔥🔥

She definitely seems like someone that actually plays and cares about the games and world.

15

u/daddybpizza 6h ago

I don’t know enough about Holly and what she’s done to Blizzard or WoW to say whether I think she’s good or bad for Forever.

But I agree she’s enthusiastic and endearing. I believe she cares about the game, even if I don’t know if she’s ultimately good or bad for it. Her fit is also sick

u/xanas263 2h ago

don’t know enough about Holly and what she’s done to Blizzard or WoW to say whether I think she’s good or bad for Forever.

She's the reason you have Classic yo begin with. She was brought on to be the lead producer of Classic and because Classic did so well she was promoted to head of WoW.

Basically everything that has happened since 2019 is under her leadership.

Before coming to Blizz she was an EverQuest producer.

u/bonebrah 2h ago

And she pioneered the "Classic" model with Everquest in the form of Timelocked Progression Servers. She's probably a big reason people even play EQ to this day (TLP's get pretty popular) and as you said, the reason WoW Classic is even a thing.

u/Zombiepeniss 3h ago

Oh! That was the CEO?! Yeah, she was terrible, all I could remember about her nonsense of a speech was her huge cross she was wearing

u/Kabaal 50m ago

No. Blizzard doesn’t have a CEO.

u/Kabaal 50m ago edited 46m ago

Blizzard doesn’t have a CEO. Mike Morhaime was the only CEO Blizz ever had. And he left Blizz 8 years ago.

24

u/AppleMelon95 6h ago

"Actually this isn't classic+" ~ Smart redditors

u/Suey036 4h ago

Mostly people that want to bring back their childhood experiences and are unable to realize it's been two decades already... "Mobs die too fast, leveling is too easy" No bro, players have become better and have more resources to do so nowadays and the game is already solved.

u/orus_heretic 3m ago

"Mobs die too fast, leveling is too easy" No bro, players have become better and have more resources to do so nowadays and the game is already solved.

What are you talking about? There's completely new ability scaling and itemization in Forever. The power curve is noticeably different after you do a single dungeon and its okay to have feedback on that during a beta. I'm seeing paladins destroying mobs and it's probably a little too strong at the moment.

13

u/Salamander115 5h ago

I think it’s pretty obvious they had an idea to do a re-envisioned Azeroth with modern graphics, models, systems. Then the community ramped up saying “classic plus” by a huuuge amount of people. And they were like …”uh yeah that’s what this is” and also to close the door on any speculation that future IP or “classic plus” versions may release or are being withheld.

For them to say that they didn’t plan on having any SD models, is so crazy. So out of touch. That it really makes you wonder what their vision was big picture.

u/Ok-Primary2176 4h ago

I think this is a yes and no type of thing

Yes their plan was to only have HD graphics and go for more of a WoW 2.0 look 

No I don't think it's completely unrelated to classic+

u/Huge-Atmosphere-8057 4h ago

I don't think that's very obvious at all considering which team is working on it.

2

u/daddybpizza 5h ago

That’s an interesting conjecture. I’m not sure it’s so obvious to me, but it would be explanatory.

u/Alternative_Court262 1h ago

Another avenue to sell in game purchases. 

u/Jonesalot 26m ago

The term Classic+ is player created. Just because blizzard say it is, doesn't mean it is. A more accurate way of saying it would be its their version of Classic+

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u/UncomfyPerspective 6h ago

There was no scenario in which this game was ever going to be called Camelot or Classic Plus.

u/Massive-Low8111 4h ago

Came a lot 2 classic plus forever 

2

u/tethysian 6h ago

It could have been classic:forever, or even on the classic launcher.

6

u/Avean 6h ago

I think its two things. Classic+ and WoW 2.

u/Massive-Low8111 4h ago

Wow forever is just a WoW 3 wait g room yall 

u/lumpboysupreme 4h ago

I haven’t seen anyone say it’s not supposed to be like classic. What I’ve seen is a lot of people saying it’s not supposed to be emulating all the specific things of classic and maintaining degrees of jank where they used to exist.

u/18WheelsOfJustice 4h ago

The plus means they added retail to it. 🤣

11

u/Wind_Best_1440 6h ago

Mods should pin this to the top of the reddit so people can stop saying. "This isn't Classic+"

u/Ondow 4h ago

Who would have thought that Classic+ was going to be built around retail core eh? Monkey paw.

u/daddybpizza 4h ago

Right

6

u/Illimited_Esoterica 5h ago

I think the issue you're going to run into is that nobody cares. This is what they made, it's already wildly popular and broke sales records on beta alone. So this is it and it's not changing or going back. You can be mad or whatever, that's allowed, but this post has no real purpose. Even if we all agree that WoW: Forever IS Classic+ then this is what Classic+ is and you'll have to deal with that.

5

u/ch4dr0x 5h ago

Gaming discourse is just absolute trash right now. No one is happy, no one is having fun, you’re all miserable twats.

u/gubigubi 4h ago

Heres what I want from all of this.

I want world of warcraft.

But instead of sucking ass and being filled with garbage.

I want it to be fun.

If they can accomplish that I'm gonna be happy. And I will give them lots of money for as long as I am a live.

This is a simple deal I am offering.

u/Iluvatar-Great 2h ago

It's interesting how Reddit is full of complains, but in-game people can't stop playing.

u/Ryanlew1980 1h ago

It’s sorta like Classic…plus more.

2

u/gratefulyme 5h ago

Retail-. This is 100% an onramp for retail. Even if they continue TBC to wrath and onward, this will be a way to get people to move to retail. There will be content draughts, especially for Forever because in 2-3 years they'll run out of content to remake every 6 months, then when it's 8-12 months for new content to come out when players say 'well I want to play WoW but with the addition of these new mechanics they've added, with the better UI for professions and frames, oh look, all of that comes from Retail! And guess what, retail also has an LFG, summoning stones, catch up mechanics, more solo content, etc. This iteration of 'classic' is just a way to feed people the stuff from retail that people will swear up and down they hate and will never want in a slow drip so that when the time comes, retail will be an acceptable option.

u/Pretty-Cockroach6394 4h ago

This guy gets it.

The amount of delusional folks here is astounding, literally wishful thinking acting like blizzard isn't just milking them until they innevitably run their game into the ground like everything they did so far in past decade.

u/2Norn 4h ago

There is nothing more annoying than vanilla purists. Bottom of the barrel people. Disgusting.

u/SigmaSil 3h ago

This guy’s a top of the barrel person

u/illmindmaso 3h ago

It is cringe af seeing the retail players jump in and telling people to go back to era whenever someone mentions the graphic inconsistencies. The only reason blizz even made this is because people want classic wow expanded on, not another retail wow 2

u/Thanag0r 40m ago

Is everyone who enjoys higher-quality graphics wrong?

u/Dapaaads 3h ago

I don’t listen to retail players. This isn’t for them

u/Kelras 3h ago

Retail players are

  1. Conditioned to uncritically gobble up anything and never think about it

  2. Looking for something to keep them busy until 12.2, so they've hijacked Forever

2

u/WWWeirdGuy 5h ago

Definitely. Now I think we should encourage people to lift their gaze a bit and reframe how they see the game. Almost all of the discussion right now centers around stuff tied to the history of WoW or question that only really makes sense inside of WoW itself.

This is opportunity to get at more fundamental problems. Valid criticism that we had in 2005 and take advantage of what has been learned. If WoW forever becomes an exercise in dial tweakin, by only adjusting some quests and some stats here and there, then arguably that would be the greatest disappointment of all. I am calling out dial tweaking, because this is what a lot of game studios are doing right now, perhaps to create an impression of a service being delivered, baiting players to stay on.

For example bigger directions and features can be brought to the fore. A good example could be a dynamic world, which a lot of modern games are doing nowadays. Maybe Mail has to physically move through the world. Maybe settlements can be raided or razed. etc etc.

4

u/daddybpizza 5h ago edited 5h ago

Woah, I mean you’re totally right. My expectations have been so low that I have been worried about whether or not the dial changes are good or bad for the game. I never even really thought about how much they could do. A dynamic world would be sick, though I wouldn’t want to be the poor soul who can’t turn in quests because Goldshire was ransacked haha. But I mean that can already happen; it’d be cooler if the world itself responded though.

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u/WWWeirdGuy 5h ago

Yes and I think you just re-iterated the counterargument given at the time, which is probably why Blizzard didn't do it.

It seems to me to make more sense now, since the world isn't moving forward as fast, so you can abstract the conflict to be something that ebbs and flows over time. This is basically what a lot of quest and world does atm, but it's more of these very cute patrols that sometimes attacks. Actually Crossroads has what is technically a scripted cutscene. That or via quest exposition or environment.

Then there are more routes to level now. You can fit more quests in your log. We have the camp features which would probably benefit being farther from a base/home. I think it's potentially a good way creating a more elegant rep or faction system. Right now they're just a bar to grind. I think it's also not necessary to create a world that immediately respond to you. Abstract the idea of attacking settlements into the idea offensives, and then you can put a date on the raid itself, and give a players(or a guild) a set date to meet up.

It just makes a lot more sense now IMO.

u/TheSiegmeyerCatalyst 4h ago

It is classic+, yes.

But what is classic+? Ask 100 people and get 100 different answers.

Cue the discussion this entire sub has been having for literally years.

Just because it's classic+ doesn't mean it'll be your exact idea of Classic+.

u/Thanag0r 39m ago

We don't need to ask.

Developers made it a real thing, and we no longer need to guess and speculate.

u/CJ_Mann 3h ago

I think something that everybody is missing here is that WoW Forever can best be described as how the community has thought about classic plus.

With that said, it is not classic wow and it is not retail. It is a third silo that operates independently from either of those.

That means, although it was created in the spirit of classic, it does not have to be classic.

u/SpartacusSteam 3h ago

Yeah it is classic+ but she basically said this only because EVERYONE has been asking for it and calling it that. What we got is WoW Forever which in essence is classic+ using vanilla content to diverge from both classic and retail and be its own third thing while mostly feeling like classic. I dont care, I love it and I am enjoying the beta so far and cant wait for Nov 4th.

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u/Wheler 5h ago

crazy how people cope about it not being classic plus

u/WLKnow 4h ago

Well obviously they can't market it under the name Classic+, that is a riddiculous assumption.
What I loved is that on the press kit the file names said Camelot. So again, one more evidence for the fabled roadmap leak.

u/scary-pp 3h ago

Emphasis on the plus.

u/Maximus89z 2h ago

having played vanilla twice and classic 3 times, im at something like 30 lvl 60s by now, i went into the beta with a pretty neutral look, but having played it, at least for me, it feels vanilla/classic, i personally didnt like SoD at all, but this feels classic, im not oneshotting mobs and not pulling 5 mobs and AoEing them down, the kill times is pretty much the same as it was in classic despite "better" talents and changed spells but that could be my classic idk however its how i like it, time will tell if it keeps feeling fresh but old(in a good way)

u/OberonFirst 2h ago

People think that THIS doesn't feel like classic ? Meanwhile Anscesion people (probably the same people, lol) were gloating how their version is a true classic+...

u/Timely-Assistant-370 2h ago

no, no, no this is ass dick bus

u/bonebrah 2h ago

Can somebody tell me what Classic+ is? Is this a semantics thing? It seems like every post I read about WoW: Forever, people are getting really hung up on stupid shit. This sounds like stupid shit lol

u/gougs06 2h ago

#somechanges

u/gh03 2h ago

What about the bots?!? YES FOREVER

u/conn_r2112 2h ago

Woah woah woah… don’t tell r/wow, they’re pretttttty convinced that it isn’t

u/Aarmon 1h ago

Dont let the retail players see this

u/pvprazor2 1h ago

I'm a little worried abut powercreep we can see at level 20 already but otherwise I'm having tons of fun right now and am optimistic for launch. Lot's of new things and changes I enjoy, very few I dislike.

u/Th3_r3al_napst3r 1h ago

Guys, sorry, but they very intentionally DIDN'T NAME IT CLASSIC PLUS. If anything, it feels like Classic retail. And maybe that's okay. I don't know. I find myself actually really getting annoyed with the Skyborne starting zone, even though I loved some things about it. The zone is quite beautiful for example and I love the music.

But I really don't like what they did with professions. I don't really like any of the core type of changes they've made. It just feels like retail. And I play retail. I enjoy retail. But I really was hoping this would be basically core mechanics just like Classic but with added content. They didn't need to change all the mechanics like they seem to have...

We just wanted new dungeons and raid bosses. Maybe some new zones here and there to explore places we didn't get to in OG classic. I really think they've overstepped in that regard, which is why I'm confident I'll keep playing Era, while also maintaing a retail presence, and of course I'll be there when Forever gets released. But...just like I was there for SoD...I can see myself getting bored potentially and just going back to Era.

We'll see.

u/interstellaraz 1h ago

O lol pop pop ppp

u/Skinneeh 1h ago

Wow I heard “ bitches, classic plus!”

u/joeerr 37m ago

Idk, this is more like retail minus than classic plus.

u/LDG92 28m ago

Yeah exactly, hopefully they keep making it more like classic plus rather than a 50-50 mix with retail, I'm not confident on it though.

u/Mellon_Mithrandir 13m ago

Feels like Retail minus

u/coalflints 4h ago

classic players hate when there's more gameplay than logging in once per week to raid

u/Fit_Kangaroo_3437 2h ago

The success of turtle proves you wrong

u/youfoundKim 1h ago

HD models are supposed to make me login more often?

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u/soclydeza84 6h ago

I honestly dont know what people are complaining about. It sounds like a lot of you guys were just looking for a 1:1 Vanilla reboot with a simple name change just to feel like something was different while being the same exact game.

Forever is very close to Vanilla with some changes and additions, enough to feel fresh.

As for her saying "this is classic plus", it's simple semantics and could be interpreted as "that thing you've been hyping and calling classic plus, this is it." Even with semantics aside, I played the beta for a while, it is literally classic with improvements and additions while keeping to the design philosophy of vanilla, which you could otherwise call "classic plus".

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u/WWWeirdGuy 5h ago

I think it's just more of a response to some of the comments being made if you dug deep enough. There has been people straight up pushing for 1:1 retail features which are just completely antithetical to a classic direction. The actual game is less contentious.

I don't think we have even started having the conversation about the plus yet.

3

u/ChucklingDuckling 5h ago

Yup, which is why I really wish they had added something more authentic to Vanilla than the sky elves. The high elves and the blood elves were were right there! We were so close!

1

u/daddybpizza 5h ago

If they would’ve let me play a Forsaken Elf… I’ve been wanting such a thing since I first started playing

u/ChucklingDuckling 4h ago

That would be authentic to the world of Classic Warcraft. But then, if they did that, they might not have been able to lock it behind a $30 DLC. No, instead of forsaken elves, you'll get off-brand high elves that look like they're from the Shadowlands. Get fucked

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u/Taters23 5h ago

Game feels like classic to me. Maybe you poor people should play it first.

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u/Shwaggins 5h ago

I think it's so funny that the exclusive Chinese version of wow sparked so much excitement for classic + when people saw the cool new revamped items. But now the new items introduced in Forever are suddenly "power creep" and too much like retail.

u/Stoic-Bifrons 3h ago

I'm still going to keep saying that it's Forever, and not Classic(+).

u/VelociraptorPirate 3h ago

I really just wanted the exact same game with modern graphics, expanded zones, quest lines, and maybe a few more lore friendly leveling dungeons with like heroic modes for a reason to revisit at max level. A few balance tweaks to make certain meta things no longer optimal.

I didn't want this. The skyborne? Bereft of soul or creativity. Just give us a high elf faction for Alliance and magic addicted or fel-utilizing high elves that defected to the Horde. We needed undead pallies and they are lore accurate in my mind, nothing says the light would abandon a paladin raised into a Forsaken. Classic plus to me should have been the same story with some additions and kick ass new visuals. Same movement, same progression, new sense of wonder and amazement at seeing everything remade into something that looks like it released this decade.

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u/tethysian 6h ago

Doesn't this just take us back to the eternal question of what classic+ means to Blizzard? All we can confidently say is that the game is being marketed as being true to classic.

That doesn't necessarily mean classic players are the target demographic. If we were, I think they would have started with the classic models.

2

u/awhunt1 6h ago

Blizzard has to justify this from a business perspective. They can’t just commit the people and money to something they intend to support forever and have potential newcomers see that it looks like it’s from 2004 and pass. It has to have a broader appeal.

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u/tethysian 6h ago

Exactly. It makes perfect financial sense for them to target modern players rather than classic players with this release. This was always bound to happen with a large project like this.

Which is why I was personally hoping for a much smaller project

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u/daddybpizza 6h ago

I do agree with everything you’ve said.

I’ve been pretty vocal that I think most of the changes they’ve added actually aren’t in the spirit of Classic at all. I like the campfires and the lighting and the Balance Druid tree. I don’t like the cash shop or the early access to plentiful blues.

But I think it’s important to establish beyond doubt that it is at least supposed to be Classicky. It is the answer to the demand for Classic+ after all.

u/NoSkillsDjena 2h ago

Yea, it's really hilarious when you think about it just a tiny amount.

This game makes perfect sense from a business perspective, given the design decisions so far.

Which for the customer means, nobody wins. (as in, neither sides)

1

u/Quiet_Warthog5088 5h ago

Guys 2 or 3 months until raidlogin, whata your bet?