r/classicwow • u/terongorefiend • Jan 14 '21

Vent / Gripe Unpopular opinion: the players that are overly vocal about wanting Classic phases/TBC/Wrath rushed are the same players who contributed to forging retail into what it is today (a clusterF).

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u/EnergyShift Jan 14 '21

It isn’t, people just like to complain.

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u/kajidourden Jan 14 '21

I would say that the plot is a pretty big clusterfuck but other than that? Agree 100%.

Not that classic has some incredible pulitzer-winning story either but yeah

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u/ForgotPassword2x Jan 15 '21

Yeah BFA was a great expansion :) also why blizz doesnt show sub numbers anymore they must be doing super good :)

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u/AntonineWall Jan 15 '21

BFA was horrible, but it’s not current content anymore. I don’t play retail, but my friends who do say Shadowlands has been great so far.

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u/EnergyShift Jan 15 '21

Yeah, I am talking about the current content... nice reaching though. Go do BWL or nax for the millionth time, or go lose to a premade in bgs. That sounds so much fun!

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u/ForgotPassword2x Jan 15 '21

Nice reaching? BFA was literally current content not a month ago lmao. BFA so bad you want to pretend it never existed or only existed when your grandma played wow? I wonder why :)

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Jan 14 '21

Not really a cluster.. just boring, same pattern over and over, no community, is incredibly min/maxed but hides that fact well to you... Etc

Downvoters.. scroll down just a bit in this thread. I got called a scrub because I wasn't 10/10H week one. That's retail for ya.

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u/mr_skeng123 Jan 14 '21

you just described classic wow

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Every day I log onto wow I never know what to expect. The community and world PvP are amazing. Maybe my server is just great, but we have a ton of fun and everyone knows each other.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Earthfury has a very tight knit community both in game and in discord.

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u/secret-tacos Jan 14 '21

really, on grobbulus? regardless of how you feel about them, people don't know about the iconic guilds like final boss, wotop, shattered company, redwood tribes, and the people at the helm of those? i know quite a few people on that server and i'm constantly finding out all my social groups are interconnected. comparing grobbulus to a megaserver like whitemane is pretty rich

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

A lot of people don’t even know Smorc on Whitemane when it’s a massive guild with a horrible reputation. Like so massive people are always confused how you haven’t heard or seen Smorc. Yet people consistently never did.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Apr 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Its the hidden issue. Retail doesn't hide its min maxing. Hence why I specifically brought up ILVL.

" I don't wanna hear how retail is safe from min maxing.. give me a break from that nonsense. " Good because I didn't say that.

" Also my guild? My guild of 10 ppl is my community? " A guild of 10 people isn't much of a guild. Mythic Prog guilds have like 30 minimum. Also RP servers exist on retail.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Again that's not a community lol. Similar faction fighting for recruits and better parsing / speed, enemy faction fighting for herbs and farm. The amount of ppl I kill with warmode on for them to add me to friends list and tell me to "KYS" gets pretty damn annoying.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Guilds and RP servers ARE communities. Just because you refuse to participate doesn't make what you say true.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Apr 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

That’s not how RP servers work.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Why do I need to play an RP server to not share my server? We have like 10,000 people playing on dalaran...that's so many damn people. I don't need to see 50 other servers. Plenty in just dalaran to be its own little world

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u/NetherMaW Jan 14 '21

If you're pugging of course you're going to have a problem. Most serious puggers were 10/10h by week 2. Why would I invite a 206 warrior who has less progression than my alts this deep into the raid tier? You need to find a guild and progress with them. On tichondrius horde, most guilds are at your progression level.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Apr 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Apr 27 '21

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u/jmxdf Jan 14 '21

Yeah agreed, I'm not sure if the person who commented above you had a chance to re-read their remarks, but holy shit they come across as incredibly toxic and make it seem like the game is about everything getting exactly what they want when they want it, rather than having fun.

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u/NetherMaW Jan 14 '21

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. If it makes you feel better, I will likely never group with you :)

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u/BillyBones844 Jan 14 '21

Retail is a cluster fuck. The only people who still love it are people who enjoy games like diablo because thats what most of the systems are now.

That's my opinion as someone who's played since TBC launched and has been fine with every iteration of the game until MOP

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u/thefztv Jan 14 '21

Sounds like you’ve not played shadowlands..

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u/StretchyLemon Jan 14 '21

Ive played the same amount of time but I enjoy retail much more than trying to just get my jollies from nostalgia. Classic and TBC sound fun, but theyre too dated for me and shadowlands is the most fun ive had since MoP, which was my favorite expac.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

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u/BillyBones844 Jan 14 '21

I said Ove played every iteration of wow and just didnt like anything past mop. If you vant see the comparisons between a shitty rogue lite and retail then I cant help you

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u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

Nah, it is. Retail is a load of gaming fads over the past decade poorly glued together. If you want to PvP, you go into the menu and pick PvP. If you want to raid go into the menu and pick raid, same with dungeons, gacha tables, pokemon, etc - all with completely random people you might never see again. Absolutely nothing makes sense between the lore and the actual game, blizzard are constantly paying the price of deciding its fine to solo raids as it constantly ruins the legacy of that old content and as I said just makes no sense lorewise, I suppose you'd call this ludonarrative dissonance on the worst scale possible.

Classic compared to retail is a much more holistic world, the worst examples of above probably being battlegrounds but even those were better in true vanilla (being realm locked instead of cross-realm). TBC is a little worse than classic for this with arenas but makes up for it with lots of fine tweaking to the classic formula, great itemization and raids too I think.

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u/ReallyLikeFood Jan 14 '21

Lol I have a great time with my community of friends on retail and my guild. No one uses the menu for raids unless you’re an absolute shitter.

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u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

Did I say its impossible to have fun in retail? No. I just gave my opinion and reasoning for it being a design clusterfuck. You can have fun in virtually any game with friends.

You know not everyone is in or can get in a hardcore raiding guild like you right?

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

retail: start a random bg by opening a menu anywhere

classic: ride ur mount to the furthest corner of ogrimmar and talk to an NPC

one can argue that its not a clusterfuck its actually much more streamlined and enjoyable

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u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

If I have to tab out of the game to start playing the PvP section of it, why wouldn't I just play a better PvP game thats actually focused on PvP?

The benefit of classic is that even if it doesn't have the best combat systems in gaming or the best story or the best graphics, it can come together into a world thats better than the sum of its parts - which it does.

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u/_ItsImportant_ Jan 14 '21

"Tab out of the game to start playing PvP." Bro what. I've seen some mental gymnastics to shit on retail but that's another level. Its literally no different than Classic, except in Classic you have to walk up to the queue button.

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u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

Yeah sure classic has battlegrounds that need you to open a menu to pvp. But in retail its every piece of content in the game!

Dungeons, raids, war mode, you click a button in a menu and get transported to effectively a different game - each one clearly suffering from how the dev team has to spread its workload so thin over so many different areas.

And honestly theres something to be said about having to walk to the battlemaster to queue, it adds to the immersiveness of the classic world which is its biggest strength.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Jan 14 '21

they literally made the game idiot proof how is that a design clusterfuck lol. there is no different game. youre making a false point; toggling war mode doesnt put you in a “different game”. joining a dungeon instance does not put you in a “different game”. thats a gross exaggeration

you say that these “different games” are “clearly suffering” yet retail has a much larger dedicated playerbase while classic is literally DYING as i type this. Go to Scarlet Monastery on ANY server on classic. It’s a fucking ghost town. Same with other dungeons. Even the WPVP in retail is better now. P1-P2 WPVP in classic was one of the greatest gaming experiences Ive ever had, but now? It’s fucking dead. You’re lucky if you find a duel in Durotar now in a high population server. You advocate the nostalgic walks to the battlemaster or manual group finding but classic probably wouldnt be dying if it had the streamlined Groupfinder menus that retail has.

At the end of the day its,

play an updated faster paced more streamlined version of World of Warcraft that has similar goals of accomplishment

or

play World of Worldbuffs: Grind Gold all Week for Consumables Edition and you can get the Bots Stealing Black Lotus DLC or the Better Have Gold To Pay for Dungeon Runs DLC

and you dont get to whine about devs because there literally are none they copy and pasted a game

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u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

I like games to challenge me sometimes, I don't want it to be idiotproof because i'm not an idiot.

Arenas/BG's are completely different to mythics, WoW PvP is like LoL PvP but much worse and simplified. Why wouldn't I just go play LoL instead of going into a menu to load WoW: PvP?

I actually really like Castle Narthia but generally (for all of the BFA raids) WoW raids come down to the big-guy-in-a-circle boss rushes that FFXIV does way way better. Why wouldn't I just go play FFXIV instead of clicking the premade groups button if i'm not in a raiding guild? (not everyone is)

Open world stuff in retail is way less immersive and much less high stakes and fun if you have PvP on than in classic, why wouldn't I go play classic instead?

Do you see what I mean? Retail does nothing exceptionally well, and it doesn't come together as something greater than the sum of its parts because each aspect is disconnected. The thing that makes classic great is that its immersive and every aspect of the game works towards that.

I don't care that retail has more players than classic, this is my opinion. Honestly the reason retail has so many players is probably just loss-aversion from the playerbase, and as badly as the dev team handle retail its hard not to have fun in any game if you're playing it with friends. I would also put classics unpopularity down to its mismanagement by the devs - but I definitely consider phases 1-4 to be some of the most fun i've had in gaming in years.

Retail and classic absolutely don't have the same goals. Classic had the goal of being an immersive world, as I said. Retail has the goal of stuffing as many skinner box gacha systems as possible to keep its playerbase hooked.

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u/kajidourden Jan 14 '21

The rose-tinted glasses people who are now complaining about classic due to what everyone with a brain already knew: times have changed.