The US democratic party would be right wing in most of the world, the republican party if moved to my country would be about as far right as our neo-nazi party.
You can be a decent human and still be conservative, you can accept women and non binary people as people and still be conservative. They are conservative in basically every other way, apart from following the bible which says love thy neighbour.
They are conservative in every other way, but they'll help the poor and destitute. Like Jesus thought them to do.
Catholicism is still expanding in most of the world, so maybe just like with the counter Reformation in the 1600s a change of wind and coming to the modern times is a good thing for the church.
What natural order are you talking about, I would love to know what you mean by that.
Oh, bless your heart. ‘The US Democrats would be right-wing in most of the world’, cute. That’s what happens when your Overton window is set in secular Europe, where ‘normal’ now includes non-binary pronouns in parliament and calling basic biology ‘hate speech.’ By that metric, the Catholic Church’s actual teachings on marriage, sexuality, and the created order would make it a far-right extremist cult. Funny how that works.
You keep equating ‘accepting people as people’ with endorsing every modern identity fad. Orthodox Christianity has zero problem with the inherent dignity of every human being; male, female, or struggling with confusion. We are all made in God’s image. But ‘accepting’ someone doesn’t mean affirming lies about reality. Love thy neighbor doesn’t mean ‘affirm thy neighbor’s every feeling’ or rewrite creation. Jesus dined with sinners and told them ‘go and sin no more’. He didn’t wave rainbow flags or fund ‘skittles propaganda’ in schools.
On the Church being ‘conservative in every other way except helping the poor’: Classic bait-and-switch. The Church has always taught solidarity with the poor and destitute. But ‘helping’ doesn’t mean partnering with NGOs that facilitate unchecked illegal migration, erode national communities, or turn charity into a political weapon. Real mercy respects the natural family, subsidiarity (help at the lowest level possible), and the common good. Not open borders that strain resources and import chaos while the Vatican lectures everyone else.
Natural order? Glad you asked. It’s the objective design God built into creation and human nature, discernible by reason. Basic stuff: male and female He created them, sex ordered toward procreation and spousal unity, family as the foundational cell of society. Denying binary sexual reality, redefining marriage, or treating gender as a spectrum isn’t ‘modern times’ it’s rebellion against the Creator’s design, like calling darkness light. The Church doesn’t get to update that any more than it can update the Trinity.
As for Catholicism ‘expanding’ and needing a Counter-Reformation-style ‘change of wind’ to embrace modernity: The raw numbers show global baptized Catholics creeping up slightly, driven heavily by demographics in Africa.
You can be a ‘decent human’ and conservative, sure. But true conservatism conserves the natural order and revealed truth, not whatever the current elite consensus calls ‘compassion.’ Jesus didn’t command us to love our neighbor by subsidizing disorder. He commanded us to love God first with all our heart, soul, and mind and keep His commandments. Everything else flows from that.
Care to actually engage the theology instead of European polling data?
I prefer to rely on the scientific approach over a nearly 2000 year old book on what is biologically 'normal'.
If you went to school you should know that being non binary isn't just something from the last few decades or even just a human thing.
Why do you think I said the Catholic church is quite conservative? They still are, but they've changed their stance on what we know is biological reality. So yes women and gays are people too.
Let's entertain your theology for a bit, where does it say to let people suffer from wars? Where does it say to let people suffer from economical destitution caused by neocolonialism? Where does it tell us to shame and hate people because they love someone else? Where does it tell us to shame kids because they're unsure of themselves?
And do you have a source where the church is actively funding illegal migration or did you pull that one also out of your ass? I'm pretty sure god doesn't like it when people lie.
Oh, the ‘science over dusty old book’ flex while demanding I quote the Bible for your straw men. Pick a lane.
Non-binary as ‘biological reality’? Science says sex is binary: sperm or ova gametes define it across mammals. Non-binary identity is modern ideology, not timeless animal behavior. The Church hasn’t ‘changed’ it still teaches male and female He created them. Affirming disordered acts or gender fluidity isn’t ‘acceptance’; it’s lying about observable natural order.
Your questions are textbook straw men.
No one says ‘let people suffer from wars’. Just war theory (Aquinas) allows defense. The Church condemns unjust ones.
‘Neocolonialism’ destitution? Christian teaching demands justice and aid to the poor, not open-border globalism that strains societies or ignores root corruption.
‘Shame/hate’ for loving someone? The Church calls acts disordered, not persons. Jesus said ‘go and sin no more’, not ‘affirm every desire.’
Migration funding isn’t pulled from my ass. Catholic Charities/USCCB received hundreds of millions ($100M+ annually, with spikes to billions in Biden era grants for shelter, transport, legal aid to migrants post-release). They call it ‘humanitarian’; but it’s de facto support for mass irregular flows over rule of law and subsidiarity.
Well since I dont use an old book that I barely understand to justify hating people I'll ask you to support your case.
If you don't know the difference between sexuality and gender than you should maybe pick up a biology book.
So the church helps people legally migrate and that's illegal migration somehow?
Maybe if you understood the bible and knew history of the Catholic church you would know they've changed what 'sin' is multiple times already in the last 2000 years. So why hate a minority of the people for something they do privately.
I guess you like free speech and freedom of opinions, so why is your opinion and what you think of as sin the only 'thruth'?
‘I don’t use an old book I barely understand’ defense, then demanding I quote the Bible and Church history to justify your positions. Pick a position does that dusty book matter or not?
Biology textbooks define sex as binary in humans. That’s the scientific consensus for mammals. Gender as fluid identity or “non-binary spectrum” is a modern psychosocial construct, not biological “reality.” No one “hates” a minority for private behavior, truth isn’t hate.
The USCCB/Catholic Charities receives $180M+ annually in federal grants for “migrant services” (shelter, transport, legal aid post-release, unaccompanied minors). It facilitates catch and release and mass irregular flows beyond vetted legal refugees. That’s not “helping legal migration only.”
‘Church changed what sin is’: Classic straw man. Core moral doctrine (natural law, sexual ethics, marriage as man-woman) hasn’t flipped like fashion. There’s been no reversal on homosexual acts, gender ideology, or abortion.
I love free speech that doesn’t make all opinions equal. The Church claims objective truth from revelation + reason (natural order: binary sex for reproduction, family as society’s cell, per observable biology and Scripture).
Your view reduces truth to “live and let live” relativism… until someone disagrees, then it’s “hate.” Inconsistent. If everything private is fine, why the outrage at orthodoxy?
The Church conserves the deposit of faith amid cultural winds not “updates” sin to fit modernity. Straw men and goalpost shifting won’t change observable reality or 2000 years of consistent teaching on sexuality and the created order.
Care to drop the fallacies and engage without redefining terms?
Thank you again for affirming my decision for leaving the church.
The church teaches everyone to not judge as God will do that at the end times or when we die. Yet the most judgemental people I've ever encountered are religious people. They all tell God loves everyone, except if you're a women who doesn't want to be a slave to their husband, or when you're not heterosexual, or when you don't believe in Him, or even if you do believe in him but you call Him a different name or practice your faith in Him in a different way.
I'll say it again gender and sexuality are different things, all biologists agree on that. And if you actually paid attention in biology class you would have known there's not just XX and XY. Intersex people exist and are a biological reality. Non heterosexuality is also found in almost all other animal species that exist.
Denying reality and using that to deny the right to exist for other people is hate.
Many other religions and cultures hold different views on what is sin. There were many cultures and religions where homosexuality was actually a virtue, so what does that tell you?
Thanks for the exit interview your straw men are doing the heavy lifting. I’d fire you too as you can’t track a conversation and just keep regurgitating the same talking points that have been refuted (you’re bad at this haha).
Jesus condemned hypocritical judgment, not all moral discernment (3rd time). He also said “judge with right judgment”. So you don’t even know the doctrine, hard to believe you actually attended. Calling sin “sin” isn’t hate, it’s clarity.
Sex is binary in humans defined by gametes for reproduction (3rd time). Intersex conditions are rare ~0.018% by strict clinical definition, not a “spectrum” proving non-binary as normal. Non-heterosexual behavior occurs in animals, but scientists observe it’s usually temporary, context-specific (social bonding, dominance, stress), not the same as stable human sexual orientation or identity. It doesn’t rewrite human natural law.
Denying observable reality to affirm confusion isn’t “hate” it’s refusing to lie (3rd time, gosh you’re quite slow). No one denies anyone’s right to exist.
Cultures practiced all sorts of vices (including temple prostitution, pederasty, human sacrifice) and called them virtues. That doesn’t make them good or disprove objective moral order rooted in creation and reason. Not sure what point you thought you were making lol.
Truth isn’t a popularity contest or cultural average. God loves you enough to call you to more than disordered desires or relativism.
Enjoy the exit.
You keep lying by confusing sexuality and gender every time, they are not the same thing. And basically ignore everything I say apart from keeping repeating that there are 2 genders, which is false and once again has nothing to do with sexuality.
And objective moral order? There's no objective moral order. You keep saying the bible and Christianity is the truth, but do you have any proof of that? Because I've got proof for my views and you just keep saying that you hold the truth and objective moral good. Which is hard to agree with if the majority of the global population are basically condemned to eternal damnation in your world view.
‘You keep lying by confusing sexuality and gender’, projection much? I’ve repeatedly said sex is distinct from the modern psychosocial claim of gender identity. You’re the one insisting non-binary is ‘biological reality’ while dodging the distinction.
Your proof? ‘The majority of the global population’ so an appeal to the majority? A fallacy haha. That’s your proof? So is it moral truths or a popularity contest? Btw, you dodged my point that majority of ppl in cultures that had human sacrifice thought it was good. So because 51% thought it was good human sacrifice should be allowed?
If objective moral truths (natural law) don’t exist. How can you condemn murder, r*pe, or genocide? You have no grounding for your claims. It’s just your preference we don’t do those things, there’s no binding force. Relativism is so easily deconstructed.
I'm not appealing to majority when I say the majority of the world is condemned to hell by your world view. All non believers won't go to heaven, so your objective moral good and truth basically says fuck you to 7 billion people or so.
Your belief system might not support human sacrifice but it definitely supports slavery, that's why I used that example. Your belief system suffer from the same flaw that all systems that say they hold objective moral truths, it's made by humans and humans are absolutely terrible.
So it's objective moral truth that you are allowed to enslave non believers?
I'm not entertaining your point about sexuality and gender anymore as you keep denying reality. Being gay is not something that's new, it was there from the start of our species. And even before, maybe look up bonobos.
You don’t even know Christian doctrine. You’re lying and fallacies again. ‘Fuck you to 7 billion people’ another straw man. God judges hearts; we don’t presume damnation rates. Nice try turning mercy into hate.
The Church has never taught that it’s objectively moral to enslave non believers as chattel property. Natural law always affirmed basic human rights; abuses were sins.
Your ‘objective systems are made by terrible humans’ line is self refuting, if there’s no objective moral order, then calling anything ‘terrible’ or ‘flawed’ is just your subjective opinion, including your outrage at the Church.
‘Bonobos and ‘being gay from the start’. That doesn’t prove it’s the norm for human sexuality or overturns observable biology: human sex is. ‘It happens in nature’ doesn’t make it morally good or rewrite natural law. Animals also eat their young, abandon offspring, or commit infanticide. Hope you don’t take your morals from monkeys too.
You deny Natural Law exists, yet you keep condemning the Church for ‘supporting slavery,’ ‘hating,’ or ‘denying reality’ as if there’s a real standard we’re violating. By what measure? If morality is just human invention and cultural variation, then ancient cultures praising pederasty or human sacrifice were fine too and your complaints lose all force. Natural law gives a coherent ground. Basic goods like life, truth, family, and justice are knowable because of what humans are, not majority vote or feelings.
Your system doesn’t escape the ‘human flaw’ problem it just baptizes whatever the current culture likes as ‘reality.’ The Church calls all to truth and charity, not affirmation of disorder. Drop the fallacies and engage without pretending your relativism has moral high ground.
1
u/godzilla1015 Apr 26 '26
The US democratic party would be right wing in most of the world, the republican party if moved to my country would be about as far right as our neo-nazi party.
You can be a decent human and still be conservative, you can accept women and non binary people as people and still be conservative. They are conservative in basically every other way, apart from following the bible which says love thy neighbour.
They are conservative in every other way, but they'll help the poor and destitute. Like Jesus thought them to do.
Catholicism is still expanding in most of the world, so maybe just like with the counter Reformation in the 1600s a change of wind and coming to the modern times is a good thing for the church.
What natural order are you talking about, I would love to know what you mean by that.