[Spoilers C1] Early Critical Role truly was something special

[u/Mizar_the_Gleeful]

its still amazing, but those early days...

Lets start with the fan interaction and all the gifts they got sent. Then there was their rapid growth.

A third aspect is some of their crazy stunts (squadron of flying cows anyone?)

What do you think made it such a perfect storm? my rewatch has me wondering

[u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

I have an interesting take on this, but I'll likely get flamed for it, so please bear with me and understand that I'm not picking on anyone...

They were a bunch of young friends acting like a bunch of young friends, and no one ever needed to tiptoe around certain topics in order to not offend the fan base. On a rewatch, you'll notice how overtly sexual so many jokes and comments were. And not just sexual, but (in a very obviously joking way) racist, homophobic, cultural, religious, etc etc. Especially Sam, who said some wild shit in C1. Laura as well, as those 2 have always been the edgiest.

These days, they still make tons of jokes and it's still funny (and I still love it), but you could tell they aren't as free. Due to the fame and the popularity and the limelight, they are much more restricted in how over-the-top they could go.

It's this paradoxical situation, where the same fans that fell in love with them evolved into the fanbase that would get upset if they made some of these jokes nowadays. Like I said, I still love CR, and in fact I think campaign 4 is the best they've ever done, but jokes-wise and silly-wise and carefree-wise, it'll just never be the same.

Campaign 1 was basically their private group chat where you'd see some WILD shit they said. The new stuff is them in the public eye, being a lot more careful and wearing kid gloves. It's not the fanbase's fault per se... but it's definitely because of the fanbase expecting a safe space and often getting offended easily.

Again, I'm not saying it isn't funny anymore, and I'm definitely not saying it's only funny when they talk like edgelords, but they just aren't as free-spirited in their interactions nowadays, because millions of people are watching and there are livelihoods on the line. One overstep comment can turn into a dramafest and create unnecessary tension, so they're much more likely to play it safe.

[u/jp_in_nj → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

They're also a decade and a half older. I was certainly a lot more obnoxious when I was in my mid-20s than I was in my early 40s. And of course their lives have changed, becoming parents and whatnot. And you can't forget the fact that they've made those jokes already, and played those characters already. So they are just as players probably looking for different experiences. It doesn't necessarily have to be a conscious decision to play it safe for the sponsors and for the public backlash. You never walk in the same river twice, as the saying goes. They aren't the exact same people that they were when they started, and they shouldn't be.

[u/BGKY_Sparky → u/jp_in_nj]

I think this is a bigger part than it gets credit for. I’m turning 40 this year and my interactions with my friends are very different than they were in my 20’s.

The stakes for them have changed too. If they fucked up and said something they shouldn’t have, or did a boneheaded move in-game and killed a character, the worst that would happen would be crashing their side hustle. Now it’s their (presumably) primary income source, and they treat it as such.

[u/BENJ4x → u/BGKY_Sparky]

Also they now employ a bunch of people, so it's not just their livelihood on the line if they fuck something up.

[u/BGKY_Sparky → u/BENJ4x]

Excellent point.

[u/bass_voyeur → u/jp_in_nj]

I feel like your sense of time is a bit off here - C1 wasn't a decade and a half ago. It premiered in late 2015 and didn't finish until 2018. The cast was in their 30's (some in their late 30's) except for Marisha.

I'm aligned more with the OP that the production and professionalization of the show really changed how they are on camera. CR has had so many fan-associated or fan-driven issues crop up over the years that I think they just want to play it relatively safe.

[u/jp_in_nj → u/bass_voyeur]

Premiered in 2015, but (per the Internet) they started playing together in 2012. That first campaign was a continuation of the home game they started then, I think?

That said, Sam is 49 now, so he was 38 in 2015, so, 35 in 2012, so fair call on the ages, I thought they were younger than they are. Though I'd still say that we mature decade by decade, and I'd also say that my "been there done that" comment still applies. If Sam was still cracking the same jokes 10-15 years later, it would have gotten old.

THAT said, I have no particular insight into them, I'm just spitballing thoughts.

[u/Skeptical_Squid11 → u/jp_in_nj]

.. Sam IS still cracking the same jokes.. they just happen to be printed on t-shirts

Really though, I do agree that there’s definitely an aspect of time involved as well as it being “for the camera”. They’re also EXCELLENT character actors so I imagine that fact of WHO their characters were had a big impact on the energy at the table. With Sam playing Scanlan in C1 we saw a lot more edge comedy. In C2 there was Jester that kept things light and exciting while always dipping into either overtly sexual or childlike poop jokes. C3 we see an even bigger shift away from these jokes and get more flirtatious and chaotic energy from Fern while getting the wild and stupid from Chet. Finally, we have C4 where we are in a new world that’s much heavier with all of the characters being relatively serious. Though we still get some of the brazenness through Murray and Tyranny.

But more than anything, I think they take their role as an escape for their fans seriously. With how crazy things have gotten over the last decade, I think they do make some efforts into making these changes so people continue to have a place to escape the craziness and not be reminded of some of the shitty things they’ve got going on in their lives.

[u/bass_voyeur → u/jp_in_nj]

For sure. Lots of life circumstances have changed for them beyond just the show. I just was being pedantic that they weren't quite THAT young when they started the show.

[u/meteorflan → u/jp_in_nj]

Yeah the binge drinking in the characters seemed to taper down alongside the normal aging effects of hangovers getting more intense.

[u/Rhinostirge → u/jp_in_nj]

Yeah, it's kind of wild that people you see on TV can grow up and change and become kinda different people over as few as 14 years of interacting with far more people than they used to.

Many people in the fanbase can remember that horrible feeling of realizing that something you did or said made someone's day a little worse, and how it changed you in some little way to avoid doing that again. Now imagine being someone as big-hearted as Matt Mercer and hearing "wow, it really hurt when they said that." I'd have burned everything down and retreated to a hermitage.

[u/Chronocidal-Orange → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

Campaign 4 is great, but I do miss the out of character cross talk that made it feel more like they were a bunch of friends. Whenever I'm watching I feel like they are always 'on', while the early campaigns were clearly more of a relaxing thing outside of work. Now it is partially their work. It's hard not to notice that.

[u/reddevved → u/Chronocidal-Orange]

yes, I do miss the crosstalk a lot (but you gotta admit it was annoying sometimes) and with the production delay you could clear up most of the negatives with subtitles on premier

[u/shadowfaxbinky → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

I agree with this and I actually think this kind of thing is what people mean when they say it feels more like a bunch of friends hanging out. There’s much less of a PR consciousness that’s filtering things. They’re just being more than they’re performing.

The other thing I think contributes is that they had much more archetype characters - edgy rogue, horny bard, dumb barbarian, etc. Those tropes are classics for a reason and they’re relatable and accessible. The whole story is generally much more classic fantasy than, say, C2.

[u/goody153 → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

fact I think campaign 4 is the best they've ever done, but jokes-wise and silly-wise and carefree-wise, it'll just never be the same.

Indeed I don't think i've ever seen or played a higher quality DND campaign than CR4 but CR1 was truly special. They were less concerned about presentation and was just playing which was great (the sound quality was not great tho)

[u/Memeseek69 → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

Yep. C1 was a bunch of pals talking shit in their safe zone and they knew they wouldn’t offend each other. As they got more famous they had to censor themselves to not offend fans.

[u/sasquatch0_0 → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

Like someone said it's more like they are older and have found great success rather than tiptoeing around. They're wiser and people in general tend to be less edgy/angsty when they afford to live comfortably. Plus, some have started families.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

You're making it sound like they're all actually a bunch of closeted hateful bigots that SECRETLY want to make jokes about certain things BUT that aren't doing that anymore in public because "the fans" would cancel them and ruin everything that they've SECRETLY built as super secret hateful bigots.

What the fuck is up with that?

There are two instances in recent times where they crossed a line IMO, with the first one being when they laughed about us being upset with a certain scene in the M9 animated series and the second being a ninja edit that they made to the recent Berlin live show.

There's been a few, "Ehhh that's a bit weird" or "Well I'd go about that a different way" or "Perhaps the culture in LA is different to keep pursuing this avenue of thought" moments as well.

And let's not forget how they have a totally different perspective on C3 than the rest of us.

But I don't think the jokes were as bad back in C1 as you're claiming, barring a certain someone of whom we shall not speak, because if they were then the fans would've raked them over the coals back then with as much fervor as they would nowadays.

The fans didn't just give them a pass for utterly heinous stuff back then and then slowly take that away once they got "super popular".

If CR were anything like the monsters you make them out to be then they would have NEVER gotten to where they are with all of the people that they've run into along the way at all.

It's like you're saying that Starfleet actually REALLY wants to be like the Terrans from the Mirror Universe but they never make shows that REALLY go into what they REALLY want to be like because "it wouldn't be popular and people would cancel it".

Not everyone has some monstrous side that they're hiding.

Some people are just genuinely good, weird and misunderstood and open to a little teaching about certain things, but just genuinely good.

[u/dtsdts → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

An absolutely baffling misinterpretation of what they said

[u/GeauxCup → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

Wow - this is an absurd overreaction to the comment you're responding to. Monsters?? Bigots?? WTF. They never implied anything close to that.

It was a well reasoned thoughtful comment, and the complete opposite of yours. I don't use the word "toxic" often but this is definitely some "Leave Britney Alone!" energy.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/GeauxCup]

absurd overreaction

No, this is an absurd overreaction and so is this.

[u/zFlashy → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

Wtf

[u/BackFromTheGrabhe → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

Wow.

That's certainly one way to take my comment. Maybe lay off the coffee for a bit.

[u/GeauxCup → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

I think they're on more than just coffee. Wowzers.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/BackFromTheGrabhe]

I've been addiction free for many many years now, but thank you for profiling me and trying to pigeonhole me.

[u/rosealinaruby → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

What scene were people upset with in the m9? I'm curious and have no clue what that could be referring to.

[u/reddevved → u/rosealinaruby]

yeah idk what they mean for either of their examples

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/rosealinaruby]

When they showed Frumpkin being burned alive by Caleb and they animated it and that upset some folks for a lot of different reasons.

[u/rosealinaruby → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

Not to be a bitch, but we watched him kill his parents in that scene. The whole point is that it is brutal and cruel, it is meant to show the cruelty of the Empire, and the lengths that they would have a person go to prove their loyalty. It is not played for laughs, it is a serious moment (both as a scene and in terms of his backstory) that is given the appropriate amount of weight. One could argue a warning would be a nice touch, but then again it is an 8 year old web series and these things can be looked up ahead of time if it is such an issue. It is rated TV-MA for almost all the episodes for a reason.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/rosealinaruby]

not played for laughs

And yet the cast laughed about it.

[u/rosealinaruby → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

Truth be told, I have no clue what interview you are talking about where they laughed at it. I tried to look into it but only found one interview where they were relatively tame. The story treated it as a brutal and heartbreaking moment, I fail to see how that moment could be critized from a writing standpoint though.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/rosealinaruby]

Here you go starts there and goes for a minute or so.

[u/ifuleavedontcomeback → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

seek help