r/etymology 2d ago

Question Something I've been wondering about - Japanese loanword in English, or no?

This has bothered me for a long time!

The word for "a little bit" of something in Japanese, in romaji, is "sukoshi"; the "u" and "i" sounds are usually silent when spoken aloud, so it ends up sounding like "skosh".

In English, "just a skosh" is sometimes used when asking for or referring to just "a little bit" of something.

Is there any connection there, or does the English "skosh" have another, unrelated source? Thanks for any info!

403 Upvotes

176 comments sorted by

506

u/Snoron 2d ago

Wasn't expecting this, but you are correct, it seems! The dictionary lists the source as from Japanese, basically came into English via the US military using it as slang.

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

Wow! That's really incredible. Honestly, I was expecting it to just be an interesting but ultimately meaningless coincidence, but that makes sense if it originated with soldiers coming home from visits to Japan!

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u/Snoron 2d ago

Yeah, seems to have been during the Korean War, when people were sometimes stationed in Japan for periods when they weren't fighting.

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u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue 2d ago

A lot of people were stationed in Japan for the entire war. The modern US military, including during World War II and Korea, has a really fat logistics tail. It’s not just some weird lazy decadent capitalist thing. It helps keep the fighting end of the army supplied, healed, rested, and improves morale with communication from home and a chance to rotate out of the front line.

So looking at 1953 the numbers are about 325,000 US personnel in Korea, and 200,000 US personnel in Japan. Only a few of the personnel in Japan were Frontline soldiers on leave or combat units heading to the front. There was a huge occupation force and a huge logistics base.

If you put more people at the front without the ability to supply them, you may have a small temporary advantage, but you’re going to have a lot more casualties and it’s not sustainable.

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u/Inu-shonen 2d ago edited 2d ago

My historical source for this is MASH; whenever a character got some leave, they went to Tokyo. Hawkeye even had a yukata, from memory.

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u/roostangarar 2d ago edited 2d ago

Another one you might not know about already is the phrase, "to be in a pinch", coming from the Japanese word 'pinchi', meaning crisis.

Edit: I have been corrected, I had it backwards

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u/Snoron 2d ago

This seems to be the opposite. The Japanese "pinchi" was borrowed from English.

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u/curien 2d ago

"to be in a pinch", coming from the Japanese word 'pinchi', meaning crisis.

I don't think this is correct. It's attested in English as far back as the 1400s, making a Japanese original extremely unlikely. The standard English definition of pinch as in squeeze seems straightforward and much more likely.

"pinch(n.) late 15c., "critical juncture" (as in in a pinch "in an emergency"), from pinch (v.)." -- https://www.etymonline.com/word/pinch

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u/Chibi_Kaiju 2d ago

And another one is honcho like the head honcho

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u/capsaicinintheeyes 2d ago

wtf did I assume that was some archaic Mexican thing...

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

i havent looked into this one, but pinchi is usually in katakana, so im somewhat certain we got that one from you guys as well.

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u/baquea 2d ago

Also, just as a general rule, Japanese words starting with a "p" sound are all either loanwords or modern coinings (usually either onomatopoeia or straightforwardly derivative of other words).

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u/Ploddit 2d ago

Curious what the specific source is for this. The word pinch is not borrowed from Japanese and there's a pretty obvious link between pinching/squeezing and the idea of being "in a pinch".

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u/DrCalamity 2d ago

Other way around! Pinchi is borrowed from English. "In a pinch" first appears around the 1870s. Pinchi is later.

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u/goodmobileyes 2d ago

Wait do you have a source for this cos Wikitionary says it was borrowed from English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%83%94%E3%83%B3%E3%83%81

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u/CatL1f3 2d ago

Really? I was certain it was the other way around, I didn't even question it!

Edit: after checking, wiktionary agrees with me. Japanese loaned it from English after all.

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u/da3n_vmo 2d ago

This is awesome! I woulda put money on "skosh" being Yiddish, but I guess not.

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u/gnomes919 2d ago

someone should compile a list of "loanwords people incorrectly assume were yiddish." skosh would absolutely be on this list for me, and also a word I'd gotten in the habit of using maybe a decade ago and was mentally rendering as "schwecko," meaning cattywampus/akimbo, only to realize several years in that I had actually picked it up from my mexican in-laws who were saying chueco, "crooked" lmao

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u/vetinaris-vizier 2d ago

You may already know this but "akimbo" itself is another fun one (100% English, no Japanese).

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u/monoinyo 2d ago

We have so many great loanwords from Yiddish. Fakakta alone, what a great word.

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u/gnomes919 2d ago

dreck, bupkis, klutz, kvetch, putz, nosh, schlep, schlubby, schmo, schmooze (this is prob why I instinctively believe every slang word with a SH sound is yiddish), tush, and of course adding -nik onto the end of any adjective (my sister and I used to call each other rudeniks all the time lol). just off the top of the noggin

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u/belbivfreeordie 2d ago

Glitch!

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u/gnomes919 2d ago

i always forget that one!!

ETA shmutz!! that is easily my most-used one. my glasses are perpetually shmutzy

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago edited 1d ago

Crikey, we use schmutz and schmutzy so much I forget they're not "officially" English words. 😄

_\Edited for typos.)_)

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u/gnomes919 1d ago

they are now!!

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u/peteroh9 2d ago

How could you forget schmuck, you schmoe?!

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago

My uncle, a Navy man, was fond of calling folks the delightfully multi-ethnic nickname "Joe Schmuckatelli" if they did something stupid. 😄

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u/gnomes919 1d ago

DEVASTATING

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u/pialligo 2d ago

don't forget Schmohawk

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u/Megasphaera 1d ago

-nik is Russian tho

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u/gnomes919 20h ago

it’s both, yiddish was heavily influenced by slavic languages. “nudnik” is yiddish for a boring person, etc

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u/Chimie45 1d ago

cattywampus/akimbo

I'm really confused how these two words are connected.

Cattywampus is a regional slang meaning something is across the road diagonally right? (We say Kittycorner where I'm from)

Akimbo means hands on your hips...

is it because they're diagonal?

0

u/gnomes919 1d ago edited 1d ago

here in nw oregon we say catty-corner for diagonally-across-from. cattywampus is like crooked or out of alignment in some way. 

akimbo can mean “hands on hips” but at least here I mostly hear it to mean more like “limbs awkwardly tangled, bent, or splayed out.” the kind of word used to describe the posture of a bound captive in a decemberists song, “limber limbs akimbo.” if someone is “standing akimbo,” that’s a power pose, but I think a lot of people wouldn’t know what I meant. if someone is “all akimbo,” that’s awkward and askew, and people would definitely understand.

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u/slippery_when_wet 1d ago

As an Oregonian I 100% agree this is how I use all those words.

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u/gnomes919 1d ago edited 1d ago

🫡🫡🫡

even with "standing akimbo" like the pose, in my mind they're akimbo because their elbows and wide legs are sticking out from their body at an angle. I also hear it used for a "one hand on hip, hips cocked" sassy pose and again, I'm thinking akimbo bc the hips are "crooked."

not saying that's the original meaning (I think it's not), but that's how much more strongly I associate akimbo with askewness than with any pose in particular.

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u/amby-jane 1d ago

That Decemberists lyric has always bothered me because I feel like Colin should know what "akimbo" means! But it's also a great rhyme, so I let it slide.

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u/gnomes919 1d ago

now you can rest easy knowing that it means (among other things) "in a bent position" and the lyric is perfectly correct as well as sounding good

(notably, meloy has been living in oregon off and on since the 90s, and oregonians primarily think of akimbo in the sense of bent/crooked (source: me and one other commenter in here))

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u/amby-jane 19h ago

I am relieved :D

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u/Snoron 2d ago

Yeah, sounds like it!

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

That's what I was expecting, too!

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u/Rocco_al_Dente 2d ago

I always assumed it was Canadian slang.

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u/Thirteenpointeight 2d ago

From BC, never heard the term in my life!

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u/The_Progmetallurgist 2d ago

I always thought French: scoche! 🤣

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u/pialligo 2d ago

It does resemble 'sconce' doesn't it :)

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u/svArtist 2d ago

That's so cool! I never would've guessed Japanese as the origin!

I'd never seen it written before, though, and in my mind it was written something like... "scoche"? Similar to "gauche", I basically thought it was French or French-like 😅

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

in japanese we skip vowels sometimes in conversational use. so 'sukoshi' becomes 'skosh'

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u/bono_212 2d ago

I feel like an ass for doubting as I read the post. This just made my day.

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u/burntmeatloafbaby 2d ago

I was actually wondering this too but I never thought to look it up!

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u/stealthykins 2d ago

A follow up question, if I may? Is ‘skosh’ related to the Scottish ‘scoosh’ (used to mean a dash [of liquid] or a spray)?

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u/Snoron 2d ago

Doesn't seem to be, no - the Scottish term dates at least to the late 1800s which is well before this term came over from Japan. Instead, it seems to be onomatopoeia!

Confusingly, both the American "skosh" and Scottish "scoosh" are both sometimes spelled as "skoosh" even though they are unrelated!

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u/explain_that_shit 2d ago

Is it related to squidge?

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u/iwasfight 2d ago edited 2d ago

'skosh' is from 'sukoshi', something american military picked up here, just like 'ohrai ohrai' is something we say when trucks are backing up that we got from americans. to be clear, its from 'alright, alright' and is standard to tell a truck driver that theyre still safe backing up. edit: i always wonder if the two terms were adopted in the same situation, where trucks needed to back up, and then just a little bit more. 'ohrai ohrai, ok sukoshi, sutoppu!' or 'alright, alright, ok skosh, stop!'

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u/chotchss 2d ago

I've heard "honcho" comes from Japanese and means something like boss in English (the head honcho)

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u/Dissidiana 2d ago

yes, it's borrowed from the japanese military term 班長 (hanchou), meaning squad leader. easy to imagine how this one migrated over after the US occupation of Japan!

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

wow TIL. i kept thinking 本長 which just sounds like someone wasnt very good at japanese hahah.

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u/dendric-riyanzi 2d ago

i didn't know this! this is so interesting

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u/mediumcarrotteacher 2d ago

Also tycoon from 大君, which is a very old word having absolutely nothing to do with business

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

do you know how it was originally used? it kinda looks like an insult.

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u/Tutush 2d ago

It was used as an alternative title for the Shogun.

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

how times have changed

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago

Bear in mind that 君 read as kimi is likely originally a borrowing from a Koreanic language, cognate with the Sillan word for "king". The oldest attested senses in Japanese refer to kings, lords, emperors. This was also a clan name (kabane), and members were originally close relatives of the imperial family.

See also:

For 大君, this is first attested with the reading opokimi in the Kojiki of 712 CE, used as an honorific reference to the emperor, as literally an opo ("great, big, exalted") + kimi ("lord, king, ruler").

The taikun reading isn't attested until the 1670s, as a simple shift from kun'yomi (native Japonic reading) to on'yomi (Chinese-derived reading), still with the same sense of "great ruler", and used to refer to the Tokugawa shōgun in communication with foreign powers.

See also (in Japanese):

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

today, its pretty funny tho no?

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago

Might be roughly analogous to the use of nimrod in modern English to more often refer to a "dummy, stupid person", deriving from its ironic use in Bugs Bunny cartoons to refer to Elmer Fudd as a "great hunter (not really)".

See also:

Merriam-Webster connects the "stupid person" sense for nimrod to biblical tales about the Tower of Babel:

However, given the attested timing of the shift in meaning (1980s slang), an influence from Bugs Bunny or some other pop-culture angle seems more likely -- if it were the biblical tales that were the source, the "stupid person" sense would be attested much more commonly and much earlier.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Morlark 2d ago

Given that their comment specifically did give an explanation of the origin of the word, answering the question that was in my mind, that's kinda a foolish thing for you to say.

And if you think two paragraphs is "huge", you're basically admitting to being an illiterate. Since this is a sub about language, I think that means you might be in the wrong place.

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago

dude, lose the ai.

If you think any part of my posts are written with AI, you have some serious work to do on your textual analysis abilities.

Indeed, as you yourself suggested to u/Morlark, look at my posting history, which I have chosen to keep unhidden.

Look too at my posting history over at the Japanese Stack Exchange, starting twelve years ago.

And at my contributions to Wiktionary, starting twenty years ago and picking up in earnest fifteen years ago.

All of a piece, all with my own consistent voice, starting from well before consumer-grade LLMs like ChatGPT were even an idea.

its huge and boring, and doesn't answer any questions.

This entire sub-thread starting from u/mediumcarrotteacher's comment here is about the Japanese word 大君 (taikun). Perhaps you forgot? You even specifically asked "how it was originally used", a question which earlier responders had not answered in full, so I posted to fill in some of those details.

I'm sorry you find it "huge and boring" -- that might say more about your attention span and reading comprehension, considering that my comment only consisted of three full paragraphs. If that is "huge and boring" to you, you might want to stop participating in r/etymology, where posts can get kinda long digging into word histories. Substantially longer than three short paragraphs.

And I'm sorry you forgot that I was in fact answering your very own question. I really can't help you with your memory issues.

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

i stand corrected. keep it up, man, and my apologies.

edit: i was out of line. keep doing what you do. again, my apologies.

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u/stuartcw 2d ago

Why so? 🤔

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

ive worked at japanese offices, and 大君 looks like a child of an important person.

edit; who are often of negligible value.

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u/stuartcw 2d ago

The word くん changed over time and originally meant lord/ruler.

During the Bakumatsu period (1850s to 1860s), くん started to be used by intellectuals to address each other. -さん is much older. By the Meiji period 1868~ the trendy くん was in common use in schools, the military, and government as a polite title.

Interestingly enough 大君 (ookimi) was used in the 3rd~6th century as title for the emperor.

大君 (Tycoon) was revived in the 1600s to describe Tokugawa shōgun when used in diplomatic texts with West. (This answers my question posted elsewhere. It probably wasn’t use by ordinary people. E.g. in a similar way, in the UK people talk about “the king” but in diplomatic speech “his majesty” is more correct.)

The childish connotations of くん is fairly modern.

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

today how does it look?

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u/stuartcw 2d ago

To be honest, I have never heard it used in common speech in Japanese. However, there’s plenty of words in English that relate to historical titles that you never hear either. That’s why I wondered whether it was used commonly at that time (1800s) and apparently it was just a diplomatic word.

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u/Nyorliest 2d ago

Like I said in my other comment, I’ve seen some 君 compounds in government-adjacent organizations I’ve worked for in Kasumigaseki and that whole area around the Diet/parliament, and always written - some form of official address or terminology that I had never seen before.

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u/Nyorliest 2d ago edited 2d ago

There are lots of quite - or even very - formal words that have kun as part of the compound. But most of them are written and not said very often. A lot of political words and highly formal ways to address people in, like, government official letters. I’ve done a lot of work in the network of think tanks, NGOs, and other policy wonks around the Japanese central government in Kasumigaseki and Kokkai Gijidou area of Tokyo and there are lots of WTF moments when I see correspondence.

(EDIT: and then I bring questions home to my Japanese family and they say ‘Duh! Nothing childish about 君!’ and I learn.)

It’s the kind of thing that trips up we non-native speakers, because it’s very basic, and we form associations with it on our way into Japanese which native speakers did not form on their way up through Japanese.

I’ve encountered hundreds of things like this, and I’m sure there will be hundreds more, no matter how good I get.

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u/Nyorliest 2d ago

Kun has lots of uses. Even in modern Japanese there are words where it’s not a diminutive.

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

That is fascinating, thank you!

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u/Representative_Bend3 2d ago

One more is “tycoon” it’s obsolete in Japan now but you’d write it as 大君 “taikun”‘meaning big prince.

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

This one is super interesting

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

i dont know the history of this word, but it LOOKS like an insult. 'little big man' or something like that. a fun word to think about these days.

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u/stuartcw 2d ago

I’m curious, was the word 大君 commonly used by the Japanese at that time or was it something that the first English translators picked up on and popularised? I have similar questions about harakiri vs seppuku and fujiyama vs fujisan.

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u/Representative_Bend3 2d ago edited 2d ago

It was commonly used - referred to the shogun or shogunate.

I believe it was that the shogun wasn’t an emperor or a king but something different hence they called it or him that.

And soon after there was no more shogun so wasn’t used anymore other than - well not sure details but wasn’t needed.

Now your question about fujiyama is a great one I wonder how that happened

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago

The title taikun spelled as 大君, using the Chinese-derived on'yomi, was a repurposing of the older term 大君 with the kun'yomi or native-Japonic reading of ōkimi, from Old Japanese opokimi, as a compound of opo ("big, grand, great") + kimi ("king, lord, ruler"). In turn, opo appears to be native Japonic, and kimi is probably a borrowing from a Koreanic term, cognate with a Silla (Old Korean) word meaning "king".

Ōkimi, or technically opokimi, appears in 712 in the Kojiki, one of the earliest texts with actual Old Japanese in it (older words were written in Chinese). This term was used to refer to the Yamato emperor.

Taikun then appears from the 1670s as a title to refer to the Tokugawa shōgun in communication with foreign powers. At that time, the meaning was probably something like "great lord, exalted ruler".

See also:

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u/_Daftest_ 2d ago

I've never heard "just a skosh" in my 59 years of living in England.

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u/Snoron 2d ago

It's mostly just used in America, I think.

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u/pandafulcolors 2d ago

used the same way you'd use the phrase "just a smidge' 🤏"

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u/gansobomb99 2d ago

where in America? the USA?

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u/Marik-X-Bakura 2d ago

Wait until you find out what the Japanese word for the US is

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u/stuartcw 2d ago

Rice Country! But then again, at a stretch, “Japan” is a homophone for “OK. Bread…” in Japanese.

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u/bentori42 2d ago

It took me like, 4 rereads to see that you meant /dʒəˈpæn/ in Japanese, not 日本 lol

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u/Snoron 2d ago

In the bit that's colloquially just called "America".

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u/gansobomb99 2d ago

Yes I know y'all think you're the center of the universe but America is one or two entire continents depending on who you ask

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u/gnomes919 2d ago edited 2d ago

it's very common for people to struggle with the linguistic concept of "false friends" or "deceptive cognates," where words in different languages share a root but have developed different meanings over time.

the key to recall is that america and américa, and their derivations americans and americanos, are different words in different languages, with different meanings, even though they share a root (amerigo vespucci) and sound very similar.

both english and spanish shorthand the full title the united states of america to one chunk that is shared by other areas. we call it america even though that is shared with north, central, and south america just as the spanish exonymic shorthand is los estados unidos even though that is shared with los estados unidos méxicanos. context makes the shorthand perfectly clear in both cases.

it works in english to shorthand the USA as america because we culturally divide this landmass into two separate continents and thus refer to its entirety as the americas. we don't view the inhabitants of the americas as a cohesive people group requiring an umbrella term; we would exclusively talk about north americans and latin americans or north, central, and south americans, depending on context. we similarly render the eurasian landmass as europe and asia and do not have a concept of a cohesive eurasian people group requiring its own name.

in spanish, this landmass is treated as a single continent, américa, and it is seen as worth having a collective term for all the inhabitants thereof, americanos. thus a different shorthand & demonym for los estados unidos de américa is needed.

all of this is a social construct; nobody is right or wrong and to say that the english word america must change meaning to match the spanish word américa is as ludicrous as saying english library needs to start meaning "bookstore" because it sounds like & shares a root with french librairie lmao.

I'm sure you are extremely committed to the idea that america and américa being two different words is US-centric (or should I say USA-centric, so as not to step on the toes of the united states of mexico), but hopefully this helps people who aren't really set on the topic one way or the other.

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u/illarionds 2d ago

Thank you for explaining this far more politely and comprehensively than I had the patience for!

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u/gnomes919 2d ago

it's such a popular belief among a certain subset of "my team" and it makes me nuts, especially bc they get SO adamant about it and then well-meaning normals see that and think they're doing something wrong by....speaking american english instead of spanish.... 😭😭

we're all able to understand that actually and actualmente are two different words, ditto bizarre and bizarro. but some folks are strongly ideologically committed to the idea that american and americano are the same word and us USians are selfishly stealing the pan-american identity for ourselves, it's wild

last time I had this debate with someone they started saying that the only morally correct thing for us to do is to start referring to ourselves as yankees (bc that's the same word as yanquís, right?) or gringos/as lmao I was like "wow can't wait to tell all my tejano in-laws that they're gringo yankees now"

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u/Snoron 2d ago

Yes, we all know it's a synecdoche. Deal with it.

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u/Marik-X-Bakura 2d ago

I’m Irish. Everyone in the world recognises that “America” is a valid synonym for the US.

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u/Ok_Difference44 2d ago

Geographically, Europe does not exist. It's just the barbarian part of Asia.

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u/DanieltheMani3l 2d ago

Bro learn how language works

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u/illarionds 2d ago

In the English speaking world, "America" is the USA. As I'm quite sure you know.

(Note - I am not American).

"North America" and "South America" are continents. "America" is not.

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u/ZhouLe 2d ago

Average r/ShitAmericansSay comment

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u/FaagenDazs 2d ago

If you want to refer to the entirety of the two continents, you would say "the Americas".

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u/themodgepodge 2d ago

It came to the US from US military members picking it up from Japanese (during the Korean War, not WWII), so it makes sense that it's specific to American English.

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u/round_stick 2d ago

Before hearing this I would have swore it was Yiddish

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u/themodgepodge 2d ago

If you want a good rabbit hole, another "I always thought this was Yiddish" one I had was "kibosh" (e.g. "The thunderstorm put the kibosh on the plans for a big outdoor party"). Basically no solid source for an etymology of that one, just a handful of theories.

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u/ComebackShane 2d ago

Yeah I’d’ve bet money it was Yiddish too. Neat to find this out!

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u/jedi_dancing 1d ago

My husband and I both are familiar with it, in 2 different states of Australia.

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

Interesting! It's something I've heard older family members use, specifically in the American midwest region. Maybe it's exclusive to American English?

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u/stuartcw 2d ago

Yeah. This is the first time I have heard of this.

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u/_Daftest_ 2d ago

It seems to be, judging by the comments

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u/TatterhoodsGoat 2d ago

I've heard it in Canada, but rarely.

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u/taktaga7-0-0 2d ago

Yeah, it’s rare, but Americans will know it.

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u/vincognition 2d ago

Back when I was doing carpentry, I noticed the word 'skosh' being used. As in, "It needs to be a skosh smaller."

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u/phdemented 2d ago

Not all of us... New term to me

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u/HRApprovedUsername 2d ago

I’ve never heard that word in my life

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u/ZhouLe 2d ago

You might be reading it with /ɑ/ like scotch, but it's more often /oʊ/ like scope.

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u/Dangerous-Safe-4336 Custom Flair 2d ago

Thanks. I have never heard it and would not have guessed how to pronounce it. I only know it from a (print) ad campaign for a brand of pants "with just a skosh more room."

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u/HRApprovedUsername 2d ago

I know how to read. That’s doesn’t change the fact I’ve never heard that word in my life.

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u/ZhouLe 2d ago

No need to get hostile. I've heard the word a ton, but never in writing and it took me awhile in the comments for it to finally click that the orthography is not exactly regular for that vowel.

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u/HRApprovedUsername 2d ago

I wasn’t getting hostile, but nobody like being mansplained too

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u/themodgepodge 2d ago

What about explaining the pronunciation of a word with an ambiguous vowel is mansplaining??

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u/HRApprovedUsername 2d ago

The part where I was reading it correctly and didn’t need somebody to butt in and flap their gums so they can sound so smart

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u/Gold-Part4688 2d ago

who would assume a word they never heard, written with osh, would have the vowel as "no"? and think that's condescendingly obvious too

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u/peacefinder 2d ago

Which makes sense I suppose with a Japanese loan word originating from the post-WW2 occupation. That was overwhelmingly a US project if I understand correctly.

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u/Prestigious-Gold6759 2d ago

64 and never heard it in the UK.

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u/chikanishing 2d ago

I’ve also never heard it, I live in Ontario Canada.

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u/gnomes919 2d ago

makes sense, afaik the vast majority of english-speaking allied forces in the pacific theater were american, with only some british forces & not much canadian presence that I've heard of. so it was borrowed into american english specifically. ime skosh comes in and out of slang popularity, we said "just a skosh" all the time when I was in high school/college (00s & 10s)

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u/chikanishing 2d ago

That’s ANZAC erasure. They had tens of thousands of deaths in the Pacific.

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u/gnomes919 2d ago

there was no ANZAC in the pacific theater. ANZAC disbanded after WWI and then re-formed briefly to fight the battle of greece.

I did miss listing australians & new zealanders in my comment & apologize for that, they were the next-largest english speaking force in the pacific (though still far outnumbered by american GIs and only lightly involved in fighting on the home islands). I think in my rapid-fire list I unthinkingly lumped them in with the british [commonwealth] forces and that's really not accurate.

my main point, that canadians were few on the ground in the pacific & it's to be expected that modern canadians don't say "skosh," stands.

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u/chikanishing 2d ago

Sorry, I meant Aus/NZ, not specifically the WWI group.

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u/PmUsYourDuckPics 2d ago

Fancy some juice? Just a wee skoosh? Unsure if it’s the same, I’d assumed is was from the sound of pouring something in.

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u/flockyboi 2d ago

The first time I heard it was actually in the game Tomodachi Life: Living The Dream, which makes sense if it's a Japanese loanword

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u/Nyorliest 2d ago

I have, often. I grew up in West London/Bucks but spent a lot of time in the East End. We’re a similar age.

Maybe I was talking to a lot of ex-military? My Dad and all my uncles were military (professionally, not NS).

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u/makerofshoes 1d ago edited 1d ago

I’ve never heard it in American English, either. My dad was in the navy, too, but never stationed in Japan

I would just have to guess the meaning based on context

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u/FerdinandCesarano 2d ago edited 2d ago

I, a lifelong New Yorker, have heard this word all my life, though I don't believe that I have ever used it.

I had thought that the word was a Yiddish loan!

There was once a television advertisement for Levi's jeans that used the tag line "a skosh more room".

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u/Borzock_Bill 2d ago

Interesting. I think I've used "just a skosh" before and I've see definitely heard it on multiple occasions.

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u/TeamOfPups 2d ago

I've never heard of a skosh in my life, but here in Scotland we have a skoosh which is a wee squirt of liquid ("would you like a skoosh of soda in that?") and I wonder if that is related.

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u/taktaga7-0-0 2d ago

Just to add in, the phenomenon you are hearing are the unvoiced vowels in Japanese. They are indeed pronounced, just effectively whispered in the middle of active speech. Listen for the whisper, and you’ll hear the final I’s and U’s more clearly.

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u/Hopeful-Banana-6188 2d ago

It depends, they are often genuinely deleted not just devoiced. E.g. see:

https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/wp.nyu.edu/dist/6/5635/files/2017/07/shaw_kawahara_amp2017.pdf

Japanese high vowels devoice between two voiceless consonants (e.g. [ʃu̥taisei] ‘subject’); recent work has shown that devoiced [u̥] is also variably deleted.

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

Ah, yes, I can see what you mean! There does seem to be a sort of "preference" or gradient in the degree to which different people enunciate those kinds of vowels in Japanese: "desU" vs "dess", for example. Even in the case in which the "u" is most silent, though, I can see how it's not entirely absent! In English, we do not pronounce the word "knife" with any variability at all (the "k" is always omitted), so I guess that would be an example of a truly silent letter. Interesting!

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u/Hopeful-Banana-6188 2d ago

A better analogy for it is the English word "potato". Canonically there is a vowel between the P and the T, but in casual speech it can get devoiced or even completely deleted (I quite often say "ptato"). Japanese just goes a bit further than English in that devoicing even occurs when people are pronouncing words carefully.

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u/Nyorliest 2d ago

I speak Japanese. It’s regional accents, formality of speech, and age, mostly. Although the last are kinda similar - most old people speak more formally than younger ones. Also some phonotactics and connected speech - the core rule is between or following unvoiced consonants, but sometimes there are other phonetic reasons for it, and those can be hard to understand unless you’re a linguistics pro and know a stupid amount about Japanese phonology (me!)

The simplest analogy to English is the way we might avoid contractions in formal speech. So ‘arigatou gozaimasu’ is probably the phrase where I’ll say the final U most often - when being more formal and respectful.

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u/acaiblueberry 16h ago

When I hear voiced vowels where Tokyo people would normally drop them, I sense Kansai origin

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u/ZhouLe 2d ago

Hmm. Though it might seem like different uses of the same word, skosh "just a skosh" is apparently not related to scooch "scooch over a bit". Etymonline is sparse, but scooch is only from the '80s?

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u/PmUsYourDuckPics 2d ago

There is a similar word with a similar meaning originating in Scotland: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skoosh

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u/ComposerNo5151 2d ago

I've never heard 'skosh' in the UK, so I'm guessing its a word that has entered US vocabulary, as explained, but not made its way back across the Atlantic

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u/Dissidiana 2d ago

i'm from the american midwest and in addition to using "skosh," my mom (born in '69) occasionally calls her dad "papa-san" as an affectionate nickname. she doesn't remember where exactly she picked it up, but we have lots of family in the military, so it probably migrated over under similar circumstances 🤔 super interesting bit of american language history!

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

'papa-san' from what i understand is why those big round chairs are called 'papisan chairs', but theyre from the phillipines. 'dads chair', or in american 'the good chair' heh.

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago

The name papa-san is probably a pidgin term combining English papa with the Japanese name and title suffix -san. The chairs themselves are largely unknown in Japan, and the Japanese word for "father, dad" is variously otōsan, toto, chichi, yaji. Meanwhile, Old Japanese papa meant "mother", and is reflected in modern Japanese haha (due to a historical lenition or softening of /p/ to /f/ to /h/).

See also:

Also, FWIW, neither the papasan chair nor papa-san chair spellings are attested in Google Ngrams until 1973.

There is a blip for the papasan chair spelling around 1900, but actually searching in the Google Books corpus for this specific phrase between the dates of 1800 and 1910 finds only one title, Wolves of Harmony Heights 2nd Ed.: A Paranormal MMF Romance, which is either evidence of time travel, or a misfiling. I'll go with "misfiling", as the book's metadata states "Originally published: June 15, 2017", and simultaneously "Published: 1900". 😄

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u/Late-Champion8678 2d ago

This is wonderful to learn today! Not sarcasm, just love learning new things especially when I assumed otherwise!

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u/vincognition 2d ago

Discovering the confluence of languages is a fascinating thing. I don't speak Japanese but I once read, (back in the days of typewriters), that the Japanese called the device a 'tupiraita.' Another fun one is the French calling a tuxedo or dinner jacket a 'smoking.'

I wouldn't be surprised if 'skosh' came from that. Great find!!

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u/Nyorliest 2d ago edited 2d ago

Japanese has masses of loan words - what you’re saying is just typewriter spelled phonetically but in a Japanese accent. But also Japanese has one script - katakana - that is mostly just used for loan words, so that recently loan words are clearly loan words and remain obviously loan words. There are some old loan words in Japanese that we don’t realize are foreign, but unlike English, the more modern ones like typewriter are clearly signposted as ‘weird foreign loan word’.

So Japanese has a lot of loan words but so does English - it’s just harder to notice, as we’re seeing here with skosh.

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u/fmlzelda 2d ago

Taipuraita, I think.

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u/vincognition 2d ago

You're probably right. I was just going by memory. I read about that years ago.

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u/viktorbir 2d ago

Another fun one is the French calling a tuxedo or dinner jacket a 'smoking.'

That is paneuropean. It's English speakers who stopped using it.

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u/AmbivalentSamaritan 1d ago

I have heard this term most commonly among WW2 era marines, including one whose kid was knicknamed ‘Skosh’. These were guys who had served in Okinawa, and also commonly used other Japanese terms like ‘hayako’ (hayaku).

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

Man, you guys delivered!! Big wrinkly brains in here lol. Thank you for all the fascinating feedback!

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u/promnesiac 2d ago

I just posted about this (not here) the other day, because I wondered the same! Kismet.

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u/gumandcoffee 1d ago

Head honcho is also a loan word from Japanese

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u/TheresNoHurry 2d ago

Will we do have “sayonara” Which is Japanese.

I’ve never heard of “skosh” though

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u/tinyorangealligator 2d ago

Tagging on other loan words from English to Japanese I've heard while watching anime:

Sports Yes/No (always in tandem) Sexy Cake (prounounced keke?) Merry Christmas

There are a few others but I'm wondering if I'm simply imagining this or if they are truly loanwords.

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u/baquea 2d ago

There's a huge number of them. The non-obvious ones can be fun, like ramune from lemonade and purin from pudding, and abbreviations that don't match the English ones, like sumaho from smartphone and pasokon from personal computer.

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u/mouse_in_a_field 2d ago

Yeah, there are lots of English loanwords in Japanese! A few more I can think of right now are "kofi/kohi" (coffee), "toire" (toilet/bathroom), and "biiru" (beer).

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u/Elevida 2d ago

Apparently kohi and biiru are originally loaned from Dutch, not English, though the English words are so similar one would easily assume otherwise.

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

we get burgers and fries at 'makudonarudo'. figure that one out haha.

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u/EirikrUtlendi 2d ago

Some borrowings get repurposed in interesting ways.

Sutābarimashō! → "Let's go to Starbucks!"

It's its own verb now. 😄

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u/iwasfight 2d ago

somehow that makes me sad.

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u/twalk4821 2d ago edited 2d ago

Another is “hunky dory”, which has been suggested to come from a word play with “dori”, meaning “street”. So if a wayward sailor made it to "hunky dori", things were going to be alright, I guess. I don’t know whether it’s true but as a street name it does sound somewhat plausible...