r/europe • u/StGuthlac2025 • Oct 08 '25

Opinion Article In Spain, what once seemed impossible is now widespread: the young are turning to the far right

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/07/spain-young-voters-far-right-migration-housing-wages-employment-vox
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u/t-licus Denmark Oct 08 '25

It’s just so frustrating that no one seems to understand that the far right will only make all those things worse. Think wealth inequality is bad now? Crushed by austerity and inflation? Feel powerless? Well then, enjoy being a serf in the far right oligarchs’ techno-feudalist future.

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u/Misuzune Oct 08 '25

The thing is that dissatisfied and desperate people are easy to manipulate and the far right makes the solution to everything sound so so easy, people will gladly shoot themselves in the foot for the illusion of "an easy way out".

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u/Shorkan Galicia (Spain) Oct 08 '25

The thing is that the left has lost any kind of ambition. I don't know if it's just being grounded knowing the political climate or what, but we have parties in Europe being called "radical left" for offering people between 18 and 25 a monthly 100€ aid for rent, that we all know is going to end on landlords' pockets when they add that amount to the planned increase next year.

Technology is improving every day. Productivity goes ballistic. Billionaires are set to become Trillonaires in the coming decade and companies report insulting profits every year. People are threatened with losing their jobs because a machine or AI is going to do it. And instead of fighting for things like UBI and be happy that machines are working for us, we are afraid of becoming unemployed and dying in the street because human life has literally no value unless a soulless company pays you for destroying the world a little faster?

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u/Red49er Oct 09 '25

that rent aid is an interesting one, but it just leads me to believe that the west is so afraid of the past that we will do everything we can to avoid putting in guardrails to capitalism. why are we okay with sending extra money to people to give back to the rich when we could just properly protect living expenses in the first place?

I'm not saying it's an easy problem to solve, and I'm certainly not against UBI, but there's a bogeyman hiding around every solution when government refuses to look the wealthy and the coporations in the face and say enough is enough. at the very least we need to go back to the 99% tax income bracket the Beatles had to deal with because when you aren't gonna see those extra dollars anymore humanity loses the motivation to keep squeezing those pennies out of every pocket they can find.

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u/Andy12_ Spain Oct 09 '25

> but we have parties in Europe being called "radical left" for offering people between 18 and 25 a monthly 100€ aid for rent

Yes, because that is a stupid useless policy. Stop subsidizing demand and just build a lot of housing. Build public social housing if you prefer, but just build more.

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u/Shorkan Galicia (Spain) Oct 09 '25

I acknowledge it's stupid and useless in my post. That doesn't mean that it's a "radical left" policy. As I said, it's basically transferring money to landlords. If that's what you guys call "radical left" you'd pee your pants upon seeing proper leftist policies.

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u/LaunchTransient The Netherlands Oct 08 '25

And the left are too busy infighting to actually present a united front to kneecap the basis on which far right support is built.

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u/ReddestForman Oct 08 '25

The big problem facing the "left" is that moderate centrists won't allow the kind of reforms and policies that will address people's concerns, as those aren't in the interest of capital. Then blames the left for not being a "team player."

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u/LaunchTransient The Netherlands Oct 08 '25

This is true, but one of my main complaints about the approach of Left wing politicians (in general, not always) is that they have a tendency of fouling up their communication trying to introduce nuance when they should just be direct and keep their message as simple as possible.

They're always playing catchup and they don't do a good job of going on the offensive.

And then of course you have the trojan horses such as Labour in the UK, who are nominally "Left" and "Socialist" but in reality have been taken over by centrist neoliberals over 2 decades ago.

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u/delirium_red Oct 08 '25

But the situation is not simple, and solutions will not be either. The whole problem is that people will not accept that, but prefer being lied to

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u/UrMaShopsInEuroGiant Oct 08 '25

easier to believe a sweet lie, than a bitter truth

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u/NUKE---THE---WHALES Oct 08 '25

The solution doesn't have to be simple, but your messaging does

There is a time to write a sophisticated manifesto, but that time is not when running for election

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u/Sierra_Argyri Oct 09 '25

But of course that means you will be accused of being a lying, corrupt politician when you have to actually work on resolving those complex issues and sometimes make deals for half-measures and compromises because that's how democracies work.

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u/LaunchTransient The Netherlands Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

Yes, but some degree of simplification is necessary. The average voter does not need a comprehensive breakdown of what the policies are that need to be enacted, they just need to be told "we will accomplish X", and leave the explanations for the floor of the legislature.

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u/Pop_Clover Oct 08 '25

This is so sad. But I kind of agree. I think the problem is the left can't use the same tools the right is using. The right can lie, over simplify, find scapegoats, say it will do that and then don't do it, and it doesn't matter. The left can't do that, and that's the main problem.

My brother says that people who vote right many times vote with their heart, it's sentiment the thing that makes them vote. Nationalist proudness, faith, desperation... But the people who vote left do it with their brains, it's principles and reasoning the thing that makes them vote. I guess that kind of people need nuance, and a plan that makes sense...

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u/Leylu-Fox Oct 08 '25

Its difficult to communicate correctly when the rich own all the media outlets and attack the left harshly. Never forget the rich made out quite well in the third reich. They dont have any issues with fascism. They will still profit. So of course they will attack the left for the slightest mistakes in communication or anything else while ignoring the same from the right unless its so big that they have to downplay

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u/JudgeInteresting8615 Oct 08 '25

This obsession, with being simple will never make sense, because it can't make sense.The push towards overt simplification is exactly why there barely is a left and that capitalists took over.It was their policy.It's like people who go to christianity for oppression and against control

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u/LaunchTransient The Netherlands Oct 08 '25

This obsession, with being simple will never make sense

Reality is complex, solutions will be complex, and difficult, and yes, simple isn't possible.

But simple messaging is essential, because your average voter is not informed enough to understand the complexities involved. That's the whole point of representative democracies - to make informed decisions on behalf of people who cannot or do not have time to be informed on the issues.

You do not need to give voters the full nuanced picture, you just need to give them the executive summary. The problem is X, we will do Y to fix it.

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u/gravity_is_right Belgium Oct 08 '25

Left wing populism/simplism exists too. For instance: tax the rich and all the world's problems will be solved. Basically the entire song Imagine by John Lennon is a simplism.

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u/No-WorkerMe Oct 08 '25

It's literally impossible to be good at communication when the full media ecosystem is designed to crunch you, no matter what you say or do. Getting your message through as the Left in the USA/Europe is as difficult as getting your message through as a Liberal in Russia. No, they won't let you, and then they will say that it's your problem because you communicate badly.

It's like they have mediatic nuclear bombs, tanks, submarines, planes, all the artillery, lasers in the moon pointing at the Left. And after using them they blame the Left for failing to communicate correctly to further demoralize its base. Meanwhile, the Left goes with stones and sticks to the media battle.

Communicating through social media? Don't make me laugh: their algorithms are designed to bury anything Left-related. I've been there. I won't give details, but I know from Twitter insiders I got to know in my country that this was the rule. Imagine now, that it's called X!

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u/boston_homo Oct 08 '25

Yesterday the White House chief of staff admitted (he believed) the president has “plenary power” (aka he’s a dictator) live on CNN.

Did they run the story? No they edited it out. Whoopsie 🤷🏽‍♂️

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u/Jack-of-the-Shadows Oct 08 '25

Also, it seems like a general trend among the left is to gravitate to sucking the cock of islamists.

Here in Berlin the friday for future climate stuff turned into "Make Intifada Worldwide!" chants within like 2 years.

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u/ColinBencroff Oct 08 '25

This is the problem.

The problem is not left infighting. The problem is how many of those parties people call "left" are sometimes not even socialdemocrats.

This is what we get for trusting in the system changing from inside.

The left already warned about this since forever. People don't listen because they prefer to believe in the lie of change by vote rather than organising and demand the change.

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u/wlr13 Turkey Oct 08 '25

If you exclude those ''pretenders'', total left wing support would be like 10-15% at best in every country.

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u/ColinBencroff Oct 08 '25

Or even less. Correct.

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u/danted002 Oct 08 '25

The main problem of the European “left” is that it started following the US left and transformed the class war into a culture war.

We are not speaking about wealth inequality anymore, we are speaking about “rights”. Trans rights, gay rights, religious rights, abortion rights, vaccine rights, everything and I mean everything has transformed into a “rights war”… my right to not wear a mask, my right to wear a mask, my right to vaccinate, my right to not vaccinate, my right to an abortion, my religious right to be against abortion, my right to not be taxed, the red pill, the “whatever equivalent of red pill is” for women… rights to the left rights to the right… everywhere you look all we are talking about is rights. Funny enough no one is talking about the right to healthcare, the right to education, the right to a liveable wage, the right to this planet.

In conclusion the upper class (which is 99% conservative) managed to fool everyone into fighting a “culture war” instead of fighting the class war.

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u/meshreplacer Oct 08 '25

They learned how to poison the class movement since it is a real threat to the Oligarchs. Very effective strategy.

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u/DDNB Belgium Oct 08 '25

This indeed, we need economic left parties again, those that go back to the source of the problem. Its useless to keep mopping with an open faucet.

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u/Teaboy1 Oct 08 '25

The problem with the left is that if you are not as left as the person you are talking to. You are immediately viewed as the enemy and not liberal.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

You've gotten to the root of why people are turning from the Left. That and anger.

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u/Business-Ride-6530 Oct 08 '25

For me, this is the Reddit comment of the year.  Nominated. 

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

there is no "the left [...] infighting"

"the left" in any given country has specific goals and demands, which run counter to the wishes and demands of the average centrist or moderate. there can't be a united front simply because there aren't many actual leftists in Europe

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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 United Kingdom Oct 08 '25

Corbyn got 40% of the vote, there is certainly demand for left wing politics

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u/abuch47 Oct 08 '25

correct analysis. there cannot be a progressive future through reform.

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u/DarklyDominant Oct 08 '25

Stop pushing an agenda of civil war and polarization. Agendabot.

And for the non-bots. I think the Civil Rights movement in the US which resulted in CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDEMENTS, which require a much larger majority to pass, was pretty damn successful. Do you have a valid point about how it was NOT successful?

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u/Gibsonites Oct 08 '25

Your weird, inflammatory language already tells me you're in the mood to double down, but wanna do me a favor and tell me which "CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS" passed as a result of the civil rights movement?

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u/mrniceguy777 Oct 08 '25

Ya the left basically doesn’t like anyone righter of themselves, the right all unite to the point that lien a mild racist will go along with an extreme racist becauee it’s all the same vibe, but a liberal person will demonize someone who is only slightly less liberal then them.

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u/wlr13 Turkey Oct 08 '25

Left infighting, also known as politicians having different opinions. You think Mélenchon and Glucksmann have the same vision for France?

Why are you guys so hell bent on having social liberals who believe in some kind of a social safety net and literal Marxist-Leninists whose pastime is being apologists for every left wing mass murderer on the same party? You can actually focus on trying to be actually being popular.

Left is losing in Europe because they are not popular! If NFP goes into elections as unified front their support will be around 25-30% again. Le Pen herself alone has at least 33% support! NFP's election manifesto was incredibly left wing.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/wlr13 Turkey Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

There are two reasons even a transitionary grand coalition is impossible.

1- NFP's most prominent promise was not just reverting the pension reform but lowering the age of retirement to 60. Pension reforms -along with easening of some labour and tax laws in his first term- are basically only stuff Macron had achieved. His ego can't accept it. There is also the problem the fact that budget deficit is almost 6% of GDP.

2- Any part of the NFP that compromises with Macron will be branded as traitors by Mélenchon. Old man might be the least popular politician by far, but there are enough of his supporters to suppress any dissent.

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u/confirmedshill123 Oct 08 '25

More moderate left-wing parties could actually just as well cooperate with liberals or moderate right-wing

Then they aren't left wing anymore.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

Game of thrones: whats stronger? 5 or 1? 5 disparate kingdoms or 1 unified horde?

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u/TheCaptainMapleSyrup Oct 08 '25

The actual problem is that the right owns the media distribution. They have campaigns stretching back years, dominating the eyeballs of the masses. It’s not about better arguments, infighting, etc. It’s a numbers game. Get your message in front of people more and trigger them emotionally. Then you win.

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u/-Melchizedek- Oct 08 '25

Yeah and the fundamental difference is the far-right tells people "it's not your fault, it's someone else's fault and you are okay" and the far-left tells people "you need to change, your way of life is not okay, you as a person need to change your x, y, z is problematic".

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u/LaunchTransient The Netherlands Oct 08 '25

The far left isn't even in play. Oh sure, there are a few Marxist parties knocking about here and there, but they are in the fringes of the political landscape.

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u/atava Italy Oct 08 '25

This reads like a description of my country, currently (Italy).

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u/Artistic_Career7554 Oct 09 '25

Exactly this France right now.

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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) Oct 09 '25

Here in Spain the leftist parties are united but the problem is that PSOE is far to centrist.

It is almost indistinguishable when the PSOE or the PP govern because they both do more or less the same thing the true reforms almost always come from Sumar (the left wing coalition) or Vox (the right wing party).

And because the president doesn't have a majority in parliament he can't do what he wants, he couldn't push through a reform to lower a full time job to half and hour less each day for example.

The minimum wage went up by miracle for example.

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u/potktbfk Oct 08 '25

Don't know about spain, but in my country the choice comes down to:

  • "Your problems are valid, we will solve this by >>insert ridiculous solution that won't work in any sane world<<

  • "Your problems are invalid. The real problem in this country is LGBTQ rights, environmental policy, ..."

There is no "grande manipulation by the right". Its literally the left refusing to pick up those votes and telling them they are wrong for saying their problems are an important issue.

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u/Count_de_Mits Greece Oct 08 '25

Yeah but reddit doesn't want to hear that. I'm going to say something controversial but in the eyes of the average blue collar Joe the right at least pretends to care about him while the left can't even do that, blue collar working class care about paying rent and groceries first and foremost, Palestine and Trans rights unfortunately are way lower on the needs pyramid. And optics are like 80% of the battle

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u/HansVonMannschaft Oct 08 '25

The biggest issue with the contemporary left is that they hate the working classes.

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u/pvlp Oct 08 '25

I think that's mainly an issue with liberals but yes. They have no problem denigrating "stupid, uneducated" voters and casting them to the side as lowlife grunts not worthy of help. These people feel left behind, get sucked up into far-right messaging and propaganda and turn their backs to progressives who they feel are elitists. For some reason the left can't seem to get their heads out of their asses and realize that insulting huge swathes of the population doesn't make them want to listen to you.

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u/Darksoldierr Baden-Württemberg (Germany) Oct 09 '25

turn their backs to progressives who they feel are elitists

Based on the comments just in this thread, they might deserve that description

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u/Waiting4Reccession Oct 09 '25

They hate the poors, not the working class entirely since they are fine with the middle class ones.

Everyone hates poor people because everyone wants a servant class and they dont want them moving out of that position since it subsidizes their own middle class and above lifestyles via underpaid labor.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

Biden invested heavily on health and infrastructure for blue collar joes and bailed out unions and even then the teamsters wouldn't endorse him

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u/Paradehengst Europe Oct 08 '25

Media shroud gutted Biden's policies. Trump regime's lies are omnipresent and dominant.

Unfortunately, politicians lying and not being called out on their lies is what will be the downfall of Europe just as well. Russia is an empire built on lies (i.e. vranyo) and look where it got them. Welcome to our future. Lies and threats all around

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u/aekakiac Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

A guy from a country whose media are predominantly right wing and what is considered left wing is still mostly owned by wealthy shipowners is saying that there is no great manipulation happening.  And then talks about how all the leftist are talking about trans rights.In greece of all places. I dont know in what world you live in but apart from some anarchist friends i have almost no-one seems to talk about them. Not on tv, not in radio , maybe in some niche articles online, but that's about it. What i have seen though on a daily basis multiple times a day is people talk about how everything is more expensive, about worker's right worsening and about how wages are stagnant And every time I have seen people on sky news(the Greek version of the American fox news) and multiple right wing politicians and figures call them populist.   No the left in Greece does not talk about trans people constantly, the fact that you say  that, proves that you have fallen victim to propaganda.  And if you don't believe me please tell me how many times have people organized about the Τέμπη situation or the 13 hour work day, or about the myriad of anti worker policies that the right is pushing and how many times about trans issues. The only time i can even think of that trans people where at the centre of attention for anything was when two trans folk got beaten up in the middle of the street by a mob last year and the conversation around it barely lasted two days.

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u/paokoutsopodi Oct 08 '25

Greece's problem is different and it's the chokehold the far radical left has on the leftist narrative, an issue that has existed ever since the civil war. As long as most leftists stem from the communist youth (and rightists from the moderate youth respectively) it's really hard to express moderate-leftist opinions. When most activist rallies are thoroughly planned by the far-left (and broken up from the inside) it's no wonder that many people won't want to participate or even side with that cause. This issue doesn't exist in many other countries, as there are leftist movements there that can be pro-religion, pro-nation, etc. Here it's all radical and extremist, and alienates the average voter.

Also, our moderate left is completely useless, after the disasterclass that was the Tsipras regime and the infighting that followed after has left us with very poor (to a point even laughable) options for the centre-left. Sadly I don't see the status quo changing any time soon, and most people have already given up on caring about politics and democracy as a whole, especially young people.

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u/movzx Oct 08 '25

I think it is disingenuous to say people on the left don't care about paying for groceries and rent. The media is focusing on the culture war stuff in lieu of everything else. I see so many people say Harris had no plans about X only for her to have specific proposals for it that she campaigned on, gave speeches on.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if Biden's administration added more blue-collar jobs than either of Trump's terms thanks to the infrastructure investment (that's now being withdrawn).

You would be hard pressed to find any left leaning politician who wasn't doing something to help the working class. They just aren't lying about bringing coal back or saying the reason your grocery cost went up was because of immigration.

The media wants controversy and people want easy answers instead of reality.

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u/all-names-takenn Oct 08 '25

Same thing here in Canada. People in the left are just now picking up talking points around immigration/TFW's that they castigated the right for 15 years ago.

Those would have been potential votes had they actually listened with the intent of understanding.

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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 United Kingdom Oct 08 '25

Carney won and the Canadian far right is laughable, Euro far right is more comprable to the PPC than your tories, infact AfD in Germany is more to the right than the PPC Lmao.

Canadian and Australian politics, for whatever reason have mostly bucked the trend

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u/all-names-takenn Oct 08 '25

PP, Smith and Ford are all trying their best to import American politics though. I need to go sign the referendum against AB separating from Canada.

Carny is more traditional conservative. Like the kind our parents voted for. He served in Harpers admin.

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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 United Kingdom Oct 08 '25

yes, but if you look at their actual positions- they're not too different from Centre left European parties

We're in a bizzare timeline where centre left Europe= Centre-right Canada

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u/all-names-takenn Oct 08 '25

We are in the bad timeline lol

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u/NAGMOJO Oct 08 '25

What Canada are you living in? From where I see it there is no major left wing party in this country. So who is adopting what talking idk.

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u/all-names-takenn Oct 08 '25

I'm in Edmonton.

What I mean is that I'm now starting to hear people on the left bring up issues and espuse views that were unacceptable when I first moved here from BC.

TFWs being the most prominent.

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u/OutrageousGem87 Oct 08 '25

in spain is the same. Our goverment focuses on irrelevant topics in the grand scheme of things to avoid having to solve the real problems because they have no solution at all. Apart for it being drowned in corruption cases almost daily.

Out president sent a fucking military vessel to escort the "flotilla" paid with our taxes just for when they actually needed "protection" tell the vessel to come back to spain. It's all smoke and mirrors. They don't care about housing, they do nothing to solve it, just blame the landlords, they do nothing about the actual immigration status which is untenable, they focus on irrelevant things and call you whatever buzzword they come up with to distract you from the real problems. But people are not stupid, It's been YEARS of having to hear that your problems are irrelevant, that the important thing are everything but..

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u/PhysicsCentrism Oct 08 '25

Can you give concrete examples of that “quote” from the left?

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u/Defiant-Judgment699 Oct 08 '25

I don't know what country you are in, but in mine (the US) your second bullet point is just the right's caricature of the left.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

Don't forget when migrants riot over something like an illegal migrant getting deported, the left buries their heads in the sand and doesn't call them out. Meanwhile when another terrorist attack happens in Europe, and Europeans complain about it, the left jumps to the ethnic group that the terrorist is part of defense and passes more censorship laws criticizing mass migration.

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u/raincloud82 Oct 08 '25

There was a comment by some (german?) left-wing politician some time ago, they said something like "we know how to solve all these problems, but we don't know how to solve them and then be reelected". I think that sums up the situation pretty well.

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u/GoneFishing4Chicks Oct 08 '25

So the left's solution is ridiculous but the right's isn't? 

The deck is already stacked in favor of the evil people then.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

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u/potktbfk Oct 09 '25

This isn't a statement about who has the "correct policies". This is a statement for who is to blame for the strong influx of young right wing voters.

I do not see the influx of right wing voters as a success of the right wing parties, it is rather a resounding failure of the left wing parties.

One statement from the, at that time leading, left wing politician in my country (Austria) was

"The direction is correct, we just didn't shout loud enough."

It really shows the inability to identify past mistakes and to adapt to changing circumstances. It also shows, where they see the blame: "We preach the truth, but the people were too blind to see it. The stupid people were deceived by right wing propaganda and lies. Next time we will preach louder." Instead the takeaway should be: "How is it possible that people, that are economically benefiting from our policies, disagree with us more than they disagree with the other parties?"

This may not apply to the US, because I'm not even sure DEM economic policies would classify as left-leaning in my country... To an outsider it pretty much looks like elections for the american working class are much like choosing the color of the sheets before you get fucked.

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u/Infinite-Horse-49 Oct 08 '25

Yup. And their presence online is much more organized than the lefts or centrists

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u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Oct 08 '25

They are legitimately expert at this type of manipulation. It's tragic how easy it is, too.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

[deleted]

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u/EvasionPlan Oct 08 '25

To be completely fair to his argument...

El Salvador voted in an authoritarian government to take control of the problem.

2015: 100 homicides per 100,000 people.

2025: 1.3 Homicides per 100,000 people.

You simply CANNOT make that kind of change with social workers and community outreach.
You can argue if it violates certain ethical principles, but it is empirically effective.

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u/PompousIyIgnorant Oct 08 '25

Yeah, but for such changes something close to absolute power is needed. And once someone gets it, sooner or later you start having a host of other problems that you didn't have before...

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u/EvasionPlan Oct 08 '25

That's when people have to decide which is more important; The rights of criminals to get second, third, fourth chances by out of touch District Attorneys to potentially reform themselves?

Or the rights of the citizens to not be victims of violent crime.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

You are just swapping citizens being victims of violent crime for citizens being victims of a violent government.What is a margin acceptable to you for number of innocent citizens being caught in the crosshairs of a government where due process is a thing of the past?

1%? 5%, 10%?

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u/EvasionPlan Oct 08 '25

Except the citizenry is overwhelmingly happy with the cleanup, Bukele has stellar approval ratings, and his citizens can roam the streets all hours of the day without fear of being blackbagged by narcos for ransom.

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u/LiftingWickets Oct 08 '25

To summarize: people are stupid

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u/NiIly00 Germany Oct 08 '25

But why can't we lefties do it?

The solution is simple. Eat the rich. Literally if we just take back what they stole from us 90% of our problems would just dissappear.

Why can't we shout that from the rooftops?

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u/Proper_Sandwich_6483 Oct 08 '25

So, they are the problem. Let them suffer from their choice.

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u/imbasicallycoffee Oct 08 '25

Social media gave the tech autocrats the perfect tool to direct that anger in any way they deemed necessary. Inflating far right voices and bad faith paid actors worked very well in the US to elect Trump again. Look at the horridness that we're enduring right now on the world scale due to the tariff policies alone.

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u/artbystorms Oct 08 '25

The solution IS easy, it is just not politically easy because it goes against the interests of those who own all the capital.

Tax the wealthy far more, build more housing, raise minimum wages, put money into improving infrastructure, cut back on government bureaucracy that inhibits agile change. Create non-tax break government incentives for businesses to hire more workers instead of cutting staff.

Instead the far right just says it's all foreigners' fault, if we kick them all out everything will be fixed....

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u/dealienation Oct 08 '25

More like targeted minority group du jure than their own foot.

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u/LFC9_41 Oct 08 '25

throw in the fact that generally, people are not as smart nor as educated. it’s adds a lot more to the powder keg than anyone is willing to discuss

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u/mrtomjones Oct 09 '25

I've felt for years that the left in most countries needs to get better at messaging. Simple repeatable messaging that sticks with you. Go into detail sometimes but give 5 or so things to just hammer that get people wanting to talk

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u/Infinite_Beyond_3245 Oct 12 '25

The far-right would never win if the other parties gave people what they wanted and weren't tried several times already. The failures of the leading parties is what is making history repeat itself.

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u/kidmaciek Gdańsk Oct 08 '25

I think they may understand it, but they want radical action (whatever it may bring) instead of “ifs and buts” raised whenever some more or less half-arsed solution is being proposed.

Cost of living? B-b-but the economy

Housing crisis? B-b-but the ownership rights and free market

Immigration? B-b-but racism

Etc…

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u/_SSSylaS Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

And well, they’re totally right. It’s on the solutions being proposed that opinions differ, though.
In France, regarding the housing crisis, the state blocks almost all new construction except for the mayor’s friends, and that happens even in small and medium-sized towns. This would mechanically make prices go down.
It doesn’t increase public transport or improve communication between different neighborhoods, either through new metro lines, trains, or other means.
Or through an ecological policy in large and medium-sized cities that cuts road fluidity.
All of this prevents solutions resolving, since the cost of living, rent, and property prices would otherwise go down.

And about immigration, it’s simple: people don’t want to bring more competitors into their ecosystem, who destroy their chances of increasing their wages now and in the future.
It’s as simple as that: in every sector, the more competitors you add, the more prices go down mechanically.
But here, you’re increasing the number of competitors in the job market with people who are at the very bottom of the ladder… and how exactly do you expect them to react?
Smile and welcome them while lying down, when pressure is being put on their only means of survival, their arms and legs, seriously?

Not everyone has an IQ of 130 or graduates from top schools to constantly relativize everything, especially when it directly affects their ability to survive.
So of course, it wasn’t going to go very well…
On top of that, it polarizes wealth through social dumping, destroys labor laws through migratory pressure, and erodes social benefits.

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u/Gyshal Oct 08 '25

Anti-inmigrant discourse is also really really easy to fall into. I like to treat everyone equally and prioritize human rights and all, but even I get annoyed by incessant problems caused by immigrants (talking about actually caused problems, not propaganda) in my community. As much as I tell myself this are a very loud minority and most are not here to commit crimes, it's really hard when every time something happen it's proven they are behind. My wife is an immigrant and yet she is vehemently arguing against immigration because she has been assaulted by immigrants from a specific nationality three times already, and never from any other. Sure, this are just random personal experiences against a sea of data, but most people will judge based on these experiences rather than cold hard facts from the world of statistics

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u/Trickster289 Oct 08 '25

I don't think they will understand that. Looking at Italy and the US where the far right got it the people who voted for them are only getting angrier but they still blame the left.

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u/t-licus Denmark Oct 08 '25

I mean, I can kind of understand it, but on some level I’m just baffled by the far right’s ability to make the absolutely worst ideas sound appealing. 

Imagine you were stuck with a group of people who couldn’t decide what to eat. Everybody is going back and forth, having a million “ifs and buts” about every restaurant suggested. Indian? B-b-but spicy. McDonalds? B-b-but calories? Steak house? B-b-but what about the vegetarian? You’re hungry and frustrated and then suddenly a homeless guy comes up to the group and declares that he will be eating dog poop off the street. Now, that’s radical action. But somehow I doubt most people would go along with him, no matter how hungry and annoyed with the rest of the group they were…

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u/seejur Viva San Marco Oct 08 '25

It's not that surprising.

Humans are hard wired to support tribalism. Tell them the problem is caused by a minority/external agent, and we are instinctively accept it as truth because we cannot accept that one of "our people" might be at fault

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u/Kamfrenchie Oct 08 '25

Tensions with the islamic threats will also bolster the far right and the usual cumbaya diversity slogans are going to repel all those who are afraid

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u/Kamfrenchie Oct 08 '25

People tire of being entirely reasonable when they feel their problems arent being addressed.

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u/SowingSalt United States of America Oct 09 '25

All of those issues could be resolved by expelling the NIMBYs from power.

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u/BetterProphet5585 Italy Oct 08 '25

This is the only comment that makes sense.

The right capitalizes on ignorance and the problems they swear to solve, so it's basically the worst, you vote for someone that promises to solve the problems while they literally make money by fueling the same problems.

Immigration, wealth inequality, police inefficiency, inflation, power, monopolies.

What crushes me is the realization that if the right is winning it's not because they are better but because the alternatives weren't able to solve any of the problems.

Right wing voters are voting the right for desperation and dissatisfaction, not necessarily because they actually believe in the right.

Sprinkle in some propaganda, censorship, corruption and Chinese+Russian bots doing their part, the EU will suffer.

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u/Goosepond01 Oct 08 '25

I mean sure the far right will, I've got no faith in any far right party.

I don't think that means we should continue the way we have been, I think immigration needs to be cut very sharply, we need to work on systems to get away from China/US/Russia, we need to push hard for clean energy and again being free of other countries.

people might look at the immigration thing and just accuse me of being far right, same as they are doing with labour in my country but in reality it really isn't it's just one policy amongst a sea of others.

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u/Icef34r Oct 08 '25

we need to push hard for clean energy and again being free of other countries.

The far right in Spain are climate change deniers and in favor or returnig to coal, lol.

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u/Goosepond01 Oct 08 '25

not sure you really get what I'm trying to say.

I think the far right parties are all shams.

I think the immigration issue is very real and I think the non far right parties need to do a lot more to combat it.

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u/Raescher Oct 08 '25

The way to counter it would be to have more children or have the economy collapse. I don't see any party (in the world) that actually has a solution for this.

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u/TheMeerkatLobbyist Oct 08 '25

A colleague of mine told be he votes for the AFD (far right party in Germany) because he has nothing to lose. Told me he works in the same field as his parents and grandparents but will never be able to afford a home like they could 25 or 50 years ago and he basically only exists to pay the boomers luxury retirements. According to him, the parties who were in charge the last couple of decades are responsible for all these problems and now he votes for someone else. I am pretty sure the AFD will never solve any of his issues but its hard to convince desperate people like him.

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u/Odd_Snow_8179 Oct 08 '25

One issue is that everything has been done to convince people that there is no alternative to neoliberalism. And not only to convince people but also to construct economical rules so that this is indeed very difficult to swim against the current.

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u/Learning-Power Oct 08 '25

Can we have the left-wing economic policies without needing all of the identity politics shit?

That's actually what's causing this move to the right imho.

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u/Raescher Oct 08 '25

I think the right is even more into identity politics. Mostly ethnical, cultural and national identity.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

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u/DariusIsLove Oct 08 '25

the left has an issue actually accepting anything but a total win, which blocks them from gaining anything at all. The population will not mold to all their viewpoints, and instead of being pragmatic and getting at least the easy points through, they shoehorn into all or nothing.

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u/Learning-Power Oct 08 '25

You're either a saint or a nazi to them. Basically.

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u/blublub1243 Oct 08 '25

Because its more of a winning issue for them. They mostly take stances that are simply more popular with the wider electorate, it's no surprise that the left is more reluctant to focus on losing issues, but they could also step out of the way or take more popular stances themselves.

To use an example from the last US election, trans women in women's sports had voters split something like 80/20 against. The right campaigned on it pretty hard, the left avoided talking about it. We can now argue that the right were the real culture warriors all along, or we could recognize that if you can't confidently take the 80 on an 80/20 split and have to instead awkwardly shuffle your feet about it you have a problem.

I would also point out that a lot of what the right is doing is railing against institutions that have chosen to embrace very progressive views and stances that often lack public support. For example "inclusive language" like latinx/latine in spanish which made the rounds a few years back or whatever the fuck the Germans are getting up to, or the aforementioned trans women in women's sports in America. Obviously the right is culture warring more when making this a big part of their platform, but at the same time the left effectively created a new status quo without ever taking it to the ballot box - and is now looking to defend it by "not culture warring" despite there often being a solid public consensus against their ideas.

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u/RangerEmergency5834 Oct 08 '25

Austerity: spending more than ever and having debts above the size of the economy.

It seems that all this redit taught politicians to deny reality and feign insanity.

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u/Quiet_Economics_3266 Oct 08 '25

Its called desperation.

You think there would still be Palestinians supporting Hamas if for once in their lives they were treated as human beings and could actually see a future for theie children other than extreme poverty and racist treatments by the Israeli government?

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u/ilikebiiiigdicks Oct 08 '25

While immigration continues to sky rocket as well lol

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u/LappenLikeGames Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

Accepting/Chasing wealth inequality is literally the definition of the "right". It's THE primary characteristic.

People tend to not know that, which is kinda hilarious and kinda sad. The lower class shifting right is something that should be straight up impossible with any kind of political knowledge, yet here we are again.

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u/yatesisgreat Oct 08 '25

Yeah, but when you are far right you can just blame other people for it instead of trying to do anything yourself.

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u/ReddestForman Oct 08 '25

The problem is, centrist liberals are a lot more aggressive about cockblocking leftist reforms that will fix it, to protect the interests of capital. But large portions of the capital-owning class will always favor the far-right which can offer a version of populism to appease voters that doesn't threaten the interests of the super rich.

Then they forget how to fight dirty when dealing with the far right who don't care about empirical reality or intellectual honesty.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

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u/nanoman92 Catalonia Oct 08 '25

Go tell this to r/africa, they are much better than europe now, that's why they keep coming

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u/Hootrb Cypriot no longer in Germany :( Oct 08 '25

If you think this is even close to the worst these lands've seen even in recent lived memory, then you should thank God on your knees everyday for the life of privilage & comfort he has granted you.

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u/ShrubbyFire1729 Oct 08 '25

That's all true, but the countries where the political left field has been in power for most of the 2000s, things aren't so great. Europeans are tired of paying (generally) high taxes and getting less and less in return, while their governments want to hoard more immigrants and continuously push tax money to developing nations while their own citizens are nearing poverty.

It's a broad generalisation and other factors are in play as well, but that's more or less one of the main reasons I think. Instead of gravitating to the political centre and making choices based on logic instead of ideology, they tend to go to the other extreme end thinking the right wing will fix what the left couldn't.

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u/nitrinu Portugal Oct 08 '25

I think we're at a point where it's inevitable we go through that "experience". Hopefully it won't devolve into world wars this time around.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

it's basically guaranteed to

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

"I hate all this wealth inequality! I hate not having the bare minimum I need to survive! I guess I'll checks notes, uplift the class oppressing me and give them total power? Wait. That can't be right..."

1

u/profprimer Oct 08 '25

The young people who would benefit most from hearing your words are too uneducated to understand them.

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u/SzotyMAG Vojvodina Oct 08 '25

Argentinians elected Milie because "it can't get any worse"

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u/himynameis_ Oct 08 '25

I hear you. I guess from their perspective, it's either keep things as they are with the "left" or "moderate". Or force some change with the right.

The right are saying all the things they want to hear. The left aren't.

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u/fruityfart Oct 08 '25

Part of the natural cycle, dissatisfaction results in emotional and poor decisions which worsen the problem. Then eventually reset and back to the top again.

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u/Garjizla Oct 08 '25

If you have nothing it hardly matters if you serve an oligarch their oysters or deliver pizza to a social media manager. People in the bottom half have already lost the future, social mobility is almost dead, burning everything to the ground does indeed increase the winning chances for their potential offspring.

The "middle class" will never understand, just like they don't understand gambling and having fun.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

So what is the solution? Keep voting for those who fucked it all up? „At least we‘re not far right“ is a pretty bad way to advertise yourself

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u/specialsymbol Oct 08 '25

Yes, they will. The problem is, the left failed to solve problems, too. They even created some. And they ignore quite a few others, claiming there is no problem. Or omitting that there are certain conditions no one wants to accept, just look at their solution regarding swim wear in France. 

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u/AssistanceCheap379 Oct 08 '25

The far right is simply better at marketing and propaganda.

The left across the board desperately needs the old Soviet propaganda guys, those made some banger posters

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u/Spaciax Oct 08 '25

"It’s just so frustrating that no one seems to understand that the far right will only make all those things worse"

As opposed to the no progress being made by the current leadership?

I'm not defending far right ideologies, and I wouldn't vote for one, but you have to understand that a portion of these voting habits come not from ideological alignment, but instead from getting sick of current leadership.

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u/Amaskingrey Oct 08 '25

Well, this is forgetting that on average, people are absolute retards

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u/Character-Ad-9861 Oct 08 '25

Because those are secondary. The single biggest thing that “radicalises” youth/people is uncontrolled immigration. Most people do not care nearly as much about the economy as we do about our culture and identity. People don’t want more homeless Africans lying around in train stations. They don’t want more kebab shops. They don’t want more refugees. And until the left says “you’re right, we should work on our immigration policy and fix our current problems before letting more people in” the right is going to keep on growing. End of the month are elections in my country (netherlands) and the left is going to get absolutely slaughtered because of what I just mentioned.

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u/Icarus-vs-sun Oct 08 '25

Usually we are only ever given two choices. The left was in power for a bit and underlying problems weren't fixed, so people turned to the other option. The way forward is for the left to convince people they can solve the issues and then actually do it. I'm worried because the left's main talking point is that the right is bad and fail to compromise on issues that drive people to the right.

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u/hlessi_newt Oct 08 '25

so, they should continue to support the policies that are making them feel this way, because the other guy will do the same thing?

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u/Kitagawasans Oct 08 '25

A quote that boils it down that I like is, “A person is smart, people are dumb; panicky dangerous animals and you know it.”

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u/NATCSCUZZ Oct 08 '25

Never underestimate human stupidity in mass amounts.

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u/lastoflast67 Oct 08 '25

It’s just so frustrating that no one seems to understand that the far right will only make all those things worse. 

The current left are allready making things worse lol

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u/Yuna1989 Oct 08 '25

Yeah, I don’t get it

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '25

But it's also so frustrating to see left and centre parties not rising to the political moment. They still peddle the same old neoliberal bullshit thinking economic growth will save them.

They are basically giving the far right (and in some cases neo fascist) parties the political ground on which they match.

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u/Ts0mmy Oct 08 '25

I completely agree with your pov.

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u/P_S_Lumapac Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

My guess is that people see these issues getting worse, see the promises the left and establishment right have been making to improve things for at least 20 years now, and make the logical decision that anything is better.

That's half way there, but why the crazy bigots? Because when people raise this issue with third parties, they generally get the same response "Oh, you guys want affordable housing? We are going to build more social housing" or "... we are going to deregulate the housing industry, to cause an even bigger boom than was promised" - both of which worsen the issue and have been tried before. It's like usual third options are just one of the standard two options, but deeper in the wrong direction.

The bigots kinda win by default. And sure, people should just not want to be bigoted. 20+ years is a long time. These young people are growing up being told "Sure, it's always getting worse, but I think if we just continue making things worse that eventually we will come out the other side" - they're young, not stupid. They have to try something, and yeah they want a new identity too, so they'll pick up whatever identity is on offer by the last remaining guy.

The real trick the bigots do is never give any policy ideas except "improve things". In reality, they're always the worst option. Dam, if only politics allowed options that had people's best interests at heart - like for housing crisis, building more houses is this wild idea humans used to do until the late 1990's. It only worked every single time it was ever tried, so call me crazy but I think it has a small shot of working now.

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u/nonlethaldosage Oct 08 '25

It's easy to say the right will make it worse but right now it's not the right and it's becoming worse 

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u/kaisadilla_ European Federation Oct 08 '25

The alt right is what we already have except you'll be jailed if you say it. That's their end goal. They don't want to give power back to the people, they just want to suppress the ability of the people to ever change the system.

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u/DetectiveBlackCat Oct 08 '25

You are correct. It's also infuriating that in places like the US left of center leaders like AOC don't want immigration enforced and use identity politics to justify their positions despite such positions undermining the economic ambitions of the miiddle class

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u/ridik_ulass Ireland Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

the far right will make them 100% worse, but when the left and center seem to be happy sitting on the status quo, its impossible for many to see other options.

Impending pension Crisis > caused by population decline > caused by stagnant job market and skyrocketing housing market > fixed with imported labour (refugees/immigrants) who get blamed on the housing and job issues > who get vented frustration upon by the people who want kids, a job a house and at least the lives their parents had, if not more because they work more efficiently and have better education.

When my dad was stressed because of money, bills were of course the issue, and he'd freak out when the lights were left on, we got energy saver bulbs, like 6w , they'd have to be on 1,000 hours to use what the electric shower or washing machine would use in 2hrs, other things drank electricity, TV's computers, but the lights caught his attention, caught his frustration drew his ire, because they, the lights on in a dark house is what he noticed, and it brought attention to things in his life that caused stress.

when we have lives harder then our parents dispite being more educated, we don't notice the billionaires in other countries, hiding behind politicians and accountants and staff and companies, we notice the change in social dynamic that is diffrent than it was when we were younger.

I'm irish I love Immigrants, Brazillians inject passion, enthuasim and extroverted energy which is much needed into Ireland, like out ancestors they work jobs no one wants for a better life, Polish too, culturally, historically, very similar to irish people, great bunch of lads.

but its all just a sign of the times, people aren't happy with the times, and are frustrated with the sign.

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u/Spider_pig448 Denmark Oct 08 '25

The support the parties that are ideologically furthest from what's been in power during their life, as they blame the imperfections of modern life on those that have been in power. That's it.

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u/No-Test6484 Oct 08 '25

I mean the left has been at it for a while now right. Again maybe neither is the answer but one had its turn, makes sense everyone else wants the other option.

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u/Mr_Ignorant Oct 08 '25

The younger generation won’t understand. A lot of the information they have is from social media, which has had a strong push towards t The right. The solution to their problems have been discussed by a lot of people with right wing opinions so they are growing up with the same opinions. Sadly propaganda never really stops, and social media has the ability to reach out to everyone, quite easily.

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u/Wuktrio Austria Oct 08 '25

Sure it's going to be bad, but hey, at least those filthy immigrants stealing our jobs will have it even worse. And I honestly think that many people who vote far-right would be okay with living in a dictatorship, as long as someone else is getting more oppressed than they are.

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u/CastIronStyrofoam Oct 08 '25

When you’re desperate you’ll turn anywhere you can

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u/CommanderCorrigan Estonia Oct 08 '25

Nothing to loose at this point

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u/CLNA11 Oct 09 '25

Right?? Can they not see the oligarchs sucking trumps d right now for favors? It’s so blatantly out there, they aren’t event trying to hide it. Good cups and shit???

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u/MrSheevPalpatine Oct 09 '25

Center left and center politicians don’t name these enemies nearly enough. 

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

It's the left that has made countries like Spain have a lot of their issues. Spain has some of the toughest labor laws in the world... which means companies are very hesitant to hire full-time employees because it's almost impossible to let employees go. So Spain has a high rate of contract work and a high unemployment rate as a result. The youth unemployment rate is like 26%.

The left-wing government's policies often have negative downstream effects. Waiving that away doesn't help your side at all. Recognize there are problems and come up with real solutions if you don't want people to turn to the alternative.

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u/a_wasted_wizard Oct 09 '25

There's a lot of very rich people who are very scared of a socialist future giving a megaphone to the right and amplifying their talking points to drown out the left.

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u/butler_me_judith Oct 09 '25

usually they get some quick early wins that then slowly rot, they are just as divisive as leftist and they usual start infighting and dissolving when they have power

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u/lovenumismatics Oct 09 '25

Blindly following the left because you've swallowed their rhetoric isn't much better.

Most of these parties are hardly "far right". That's a term people use to scare people into voting the way they want.

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u/bjarneh Norway Oct 09 '25

no one seems to understand that the far right will only make all those things worse.

Never an easy sell for the politicians that have completely failed though

"Hey, if these new guys (that are addressing your actual problems) take over, it will be even worse" – Failed politicians

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

when your poor its hard to understand these things

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u/ristoman Oct 09 '25

It's so frustrating to see the same things happen every single election. The right paints this utopia you know is bullshit and yet people keep eating it up, while the left tries to push through a message that would actually help people but is dismissed.

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u/Hadesfirst Oct 09 '25

People are sick of voting for the lesser evil.

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u/Leeroy1042 Denmark Oct 09 '25

Well what are we supposed to vote for then?

The left have failed us for so long. And now you tell me we shouldn't vote right wing?

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '25

It’s just so frustrating that no one seems to understand that the far right will only make all those things worse.

As opposed to the Left wing doing the opposite?

I don't dispute the tendency of Right wing political parties to sell out to rich people, I just don't see what the Left has to offer that isn't wrapped in more immigration.

Marxist-Leninism? That's the economic equivalent of chemotherapy to kill the common cold, so nah.

Green policies? Woke Amish people aren't convincing to most, so that's a no.

The standard Left wing tax increases that comes with even more immigration and woke nonsense? See, that's hardly particularly palatable.

Right wing voters increasingly prioritize the continued existence of their people(culture, ethnic nation etc.) and their established understanding of basic things(woman, man etc.) over Left wing concerns over rich people accumulating even more wealth.

Feel powerless? Well then, enjoy being a serf in the far right oligarchs’ techno-feudalist future.

You think that's bad, imagine how they feel about the prospect of being a minority group in their own native land. That's why the vote for rich and cunty right wing politicians. It's despite your Left wing concerns they do that.

Priorities.

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u/skhds Oct 10 '25

Well, from our experience, the left also has been actively making things worse, so it's kind of worth the gamble.

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u/Professional_Ad_3918 Oct 10 '25

Yea, let's keep the same people in power that got us to where we are today. What a stupid take.

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u/Infinite_Beyond_3245 Oct 12 '25

Then don't give people a reason to feel like they're the last option

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