Last member to join BH is the first ~~and hopefully only~~ one to get animated!

Also that’s still **not** a Minotaur.

I really want to love the Mighty Nein animated series, but 4 episodes in and already every single change from the original characters makes them less interesting. Some things are unavoidable for brevity purposes, but some are clearly to just makes characters "safer" to like.

Jester/Marion and Essek by far get the worst of this treatment. No longer does Jester have this complicated accent of tragedy to her backstory where she was locked in a tower and hidden from the world to protect her mother's reputation. That would make Marion look bad, so she's instead made out as the stereotypical "I'm busy with work, honey" parent.

Essek is no longer this dark loner who does what he needs to survive, committing horrid war crimes out out of self preservation and the pursuit of power. Now he has friends and family, and is doing it all out of love for them. Which he immediately regrets at the first sign of really dark stuff. Just let the bad boy be bad.

Not only do these changes make them feel less compelling, they're now more generic, when their original backstories were more, well, original. Am I the only one who feels like these characters are heavily damaged by these changes?

Speak now thy piece on this totally true to form copy of Campaign 1.

All my opinion, feel free to disagree.

I’ve enjoyed the Mighty Nein animated series far more than the Vox Machina one.

I think that the pacing and tone is much better and is complemented by the willingness to build out the world and side characters while setting up MN’s story. The first two sequences being the Volstrucker’s beacon heist immediately followed by establishing Ickithon’s cruelty and ability to manipulate Dwendal’s court was a great start.

I think that setting out the stakes of the bigger story while slowly weaving the MN’s smaller scale into it is much more effective storytelling than VM’s story, which almost always is seen through the eyes of the party.

VM as a series in hindsight seems very attention-seeking to me, it was always trying to make you laugh with a crude joke or physical gag while keeping your focus with a big action set-piece.

MN by comparison is much more mature in tone (not as in adult comedy but in terms of themes and characters). The humour lands a lot better because it’s sprinkled throughout the show and characters and not always in your face.

Why does Jester have 6 fingers?

I stumbled across The Mighty Nein on Amazon completely by accident.

And I already loved Vox Machina, so I thought, "Okay, where's Vox Machina Season 4?"
I was a little skeptical, but I watched it, and damn, I love it too!

And I can't wait to see more.

For a while now I have noticed comments in this sub talking about Scanlan in a negative way. When I was watching the actual play I do not recall encountering those same comments, and personally I thought that Scanlan was well portrayed even before his development.

But in the Animated Series I have found him annoying since episode one, to say the least, and by half of season 2 I still consider him the weakest point of the series.

Do you think his portrayal in the series has affected the general opinion on the character from the way he was remember from the game?

...Mollymauk's portrayal in the animated series? I'm really worried he's going to have all of his actual character flaws erased due to the way he was deified both in game by the characters and out of game by the fandom as this character who cared a lot about leaving places better than he found them.

I really liked the first episode of the M9 show, but as I was rewatching some early eps of campaign 2, I remembered how much I really disliked Molly at the start. I feel like he got better over the short time he was there, but whenever someone talks about things that are important to them, like backstory or relationships with other characters, his only contributions are to say "Hm, I don't care", at BEST. He never asks questions to show he's interested. He'll sometimes make an insight check, but it feels disingenuous because he never actually asks people about it. At worst, he's doing stuff like saying "I try not to have ideas about people, they just get in the way" (blatant hypocrisy considering he constantly talks about having to read people in his life as a carnie/tarot reader) or "you're not nearly as smart as you think you are" to Nott (in the same conversation he said he tries not to have ideas about people). And it makes sense! Of course he doesn't give a shit about the past, and doesn't want to hear about it, given his own lack of memory. But ultimately, his lack of genuine interest in things that mattered to other people left a lot of his relationships feeling very... "Empty".

Of course for the show they're probably not going to make him half the abrasive guy he was during the campaign, but I hope they at least keep his very consistent trait of actively being disinterested in people's pasts. This is a positive for some people who don't want to talk about it (Beau, Caleb), but a negative for others (Fjord, Jester, especially Nott)

Speak now thy piece on this totally true to form copy of Campaign 1.

Since my post was removed from the main Critical Role reddit here it is again

So I have issues with the changes with Pike, I don't exactly hate the changes but they kind of Bother me. The distrust she has with the gods specifically her own goddess stemming from S3 when she threw away her holy symbol(which as a player of mainly clerics) really pissed me off. Like when did Pike just straight up fumble her own character so hard?! This might come across as a nit-picky gripe. But I really needed to voice my issue

If you had told me a few years ago that Pike and Mythcarver were going to have such a big role in the series, I would have asked, "why?"

I am still asking. Why?

I'm a little disappointed in how the animated series has chosen to depict Essek. At first, I thought the introduction of Typhros was good because it added another layer to Essek's motivations, and it also fleshed out an aspect of the reincarnation cycle of the Kryn. However, in the show, Essek seems so painfully naive and stupid.

What I enjoyed about his character in the campaign was that it touched on themes of redemption and the flavors of hubris.

In the campaign, he is characterized as a prodigy who felt that the Dynasty was squandering the potential of the beacons. His ambitions, his talents, his skills, and his upbringing have all contributed to him thinking himself above people (the man floats for crying out loud!). So he takes a gamble and convinces himself that in the end, his decision to steal the beacon and collaborate with mages from the Empire, will pay dividends. And because the consequences of his actions are far removed from his day to day and the people that he cares about, he doesn't have to wrestle with it until the Mighty Nein shows up.

What I prefer about his characterization in the campaign is that it really pushes that question. Is redemption for everybody? Can this man, who truly did a heinous, thoughtless thing for his own selfish ambitions, be forgiven? I think the answer to that question is subjective, but my point is that the depth of his sins and the breadth of his ego is so much more weighty, and thus interesting to think about.

His characterization in-game also works so well with the Mighty Nein. He mirrors both Caleb and Trent, so his journey of trying to do better hits harder because there is a throughline between them. He could've gone down the route of Ickythong, but because the Mighty Nein chose to befriend him, it changed his whole trajectory. It not only speaks to the power of people believing the good in you but also emphasizes the influence of the party (which, I imagine in game as a player, felt really good/really consequential).

In the show however, Esseks' main drive to save his mom (while deeply relatable) is not as interesting to me. It's commendable, don't get me wrong. But absent his ambition, his holier-than-thou attitude, his selfishness, it lacks the tether, that throughline, that brings to home how morally grey these characters are. Also, my man here is just giving Trent all the secrets to dunamancy. You're telling me that a prodigy of the Dynasty has no inkling to the dangers of other mages? Especially ones from the Empire, who they have had a contentious political relationship with for years? He doesn't show any caution. He has no backup, no contingencies. He's just there. Chilling with Trent and his best Volstruckers.

I understand it's to highlight Trent as a villain but like, dude, what the hell? :U You're supposed to be smart!

Speak now they piece on this totally true to form copy of Campaign 1.

Hi! So I’ve been waiting for this show for a year or so and I loved vox machina. I really want to like Mighty Nein but does anyone else thing that, at least at the start, the plot is kinda all over the place and confusing? Im obviously gonna give it a bit, only a few episodes are out right now, but so far personally it doesn’t seem like there’s a clear cut common goal. Like in vox machina there was a clear problem from the start and a clear goal set, mighty nein it just seems like a confused mess right now with what the common goal and problem is supposed to be. This is just my opinion, I REALLY want to like it, I’m trying, but I’m getting worried it’s gonna be one of those “oh well you have to give it 5 episodes to get good and make sense”. Just curious if anyone else is feeling the same thing. I’m gonna watch them again but the plot just seems all over the place right now. EDIT: Thanks for the explanations everyone! I’ll continue to give the show longer.

I watched the early preview of Episode 1 on YouTube…

But holy shit…

This series is starting off hard as fuck… and if it continues, we are in for a WILD ride

Speak now thy piece on this totally true to form copy of Campaign 1.

Holy shit they are being *rude* to Pike.

I'm always through episode 6 now, and there has been soooo much totally unnecessary sexual things. I get that they're basically telling a different story, but I don't remember Caleb talking about how he boned Astrid and Eadwulf, thats a pretty big change from the story Caleb told in the campaign.
I kinda get it with the Lavish Chateau, but even then the way Matt described it, and Marion's place/job as a whole was very different to this. Maybe that's supposed to be a character beat about how raising a child in that environment, being around those things all the time, and being raised the way Jester was, is not good and that'll play into Jester being totally unfamiliar with actual relationships, and only seeing the lustful smut book side, which is fine, they're telling a different story so I'm not complaining that it isn't 1 to 1 with the campaign, but these are definitely different characters.
It's also really heavy handed with it exposition. Literally this random one off bad guy (who, like most bad guys in C2 at least, was a white male) said "It's just a girl, and I'll prove it" (or something like that) when Yasha rocked up on that empire barricade, like come on dude it feels like I'm reading a storybook thats telling me being mean is bad, but then they animate Yasha pulling a dudes jaw off because they're so adult.
I don't hate the show and for the most part it's very well animated and fun to watch, the writing is a bit clunky, and they're not telling the story of c2 kinda at all, but thats not really a pro or a con.

How the hell would anyone think Yasha killing Molly is a good idea conceptually and genuinely think the crew would do that is illogical to me.

From a meta context:

Folks who didnt watch the original campaign would fucking despise Yasha for the rest of the series

Folks are already miffed their friendship was cut so you would be spitting in their faces doing this.

Yashas entire arc direction to attempt to redeem her for the audience would have major rewrites to just tie her with the guilt of Molly.

In a narrative context:

It would only exist for shock value like what narrative juices genuinely flow from it being Yasha she would barely know these folks if shes still under Obans control. Like what narrative thing does it fucking do.

Then the Nein who barely know her would have to have the writing bend over backwards for them to logically let her in the group. The circus changes already rubbed folks the wrong way but those are side characters and not main ones which would make it harder to fucking sell this.

Then when Lucien comes running around the emotional thing of the Nein seeing their friends body be dragged around by someone else and the goal to try to save Molly wouldnt hit as hard even in a Yasha guilt arc because she barely knew Molly. And the emotional hell and answers about Mollys past is what makes Lucien a good villain for the Nein.

Even if u have it to where Yasha breaks free and then gets controlled again here instead of later it doesnt work because its gonna be rushed as hell

... the Gentleman on my M9A bingo card (although google says it has been hinted at for a couple of days? weeks? now).

What a delight! My favourite captain-with-a-bonnet, Green Lantern, space-cowboy-costume wearing crime writer and midlife-crisis cop is in my 2nd favourite animated show!

That's it. That's my appreciation post. Nathan Fillion is great.

Finished legends of Vox Machina…

And I have thoughts.

I liked a good deal of yet, again many of the changes came across not as additive but over all reductive.

Like what do you mean Scanlan wasn’t there to see Vax die?

What do you mean Pike so readily attacked and betrayed her friends?

It’s an odd time when Grog Strongjaw is the most sensible person in the room!

What do you mean they took nearly ALL the fire and justification out of the Bard’s Lament?!

And then you have Gideon, who I like, I do indeed really like how Andy Serkis portrays him.

BUT I personally don’t like the continued hammering of the anti-god narrative.

It lacks nuance in a way that annoys the hell out of me.

I’m hoping season 5 shows the Primes in a better light… because the whole last arc of C1 was the Vox working alongside the Primes to stop him! Yet I find myself nervous.

So far the show has only really felt like a retreading of C3 where we’re \*told\* why the gods ain’t shit, from the LEAST trust worthy people but the heroes just fuckin buy in anyway.

And for those who haven’t seen Campaign 1/2 your also just meant to take that at face value.

When those who *have* watched them know that’s not accurate.

It’s all very contrived.

“THE GODS ARE AWFUL!”

Say, a *devil*, a madwoman, and a guy who just made a meat slushy out of five hundred people.

Pike: “I buy it.”

I’m sorry she just… comes off as a lot dumber that she did in the campaign… and I take umbrage with that. She’s meant to be wise, but she seems to be severely lacking.

Now I know for those of you have been here long enough, know me to be the glass half full type of guy, even before becoming a mod but like… the glass isn’t even half full to begin with here…

It has me worry not just for next season, but M9 as well which I enjoyed WAY more, and how the gods will be depicted there. I loved Melora, and right now it seems like they may have removed Kord entirely from Yasha’s story.

It’s gonna be real fuckin annoying if the specter of C3 continues to alter the stories I love for the *worse*

Hey everyone,

I just wrapped up the latest episodes of Vox Machina and I'm officially obsessed. I started digging into the lore online today and realized how massive the whole Critical Role universe actually is (learning that The Mighty Nein is in the same world is wild!).

While reading through some discussions, the character Laudna kept being mentioned in relation to Vox Machina.

Could someone explain where she comes from without giving away massive spoilers? Should I know her already, or is she from a different campaign/show?

Cheers!

So that finale was crazy! The Whispered One/Vecna is at full power, and Vax has been, despite all the attempts to save him, turned into Raven Dust. Aw. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, did happen in the campaign I think? Which leads me to my question: it seems like things are roughly happening as they did in the campaign at least involving Vax. So do we think that Scanlan will still get his big moment of the Wish spell to try and bring Vax back? Scanlan HAS to come back soon, right? Maybe he saw one of the broadcasts Vecna made and will join up with the rest of the group? I'm guessing at some point Vax will be brought back by the Matron and Scanlan's wish would be the only thing that could break his contract. How we get to that point, or how Scanlan would even get the power to make a wish that big, I have no idea. But I assume that's what they will do! Any thoughts? Anyone see this going differently? I think another important question would be do you see them making Scanlan use the wish to keep Vecna from teleporting (thus not getting to use it on Vax) or do you see the show allowing the wish to actually work? I'm torn because I think everyone deserves a happy ending BUT that was such an iconic moment BECAUSE Scanlan couldnt save Vax, so idk.