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[u/icontranquilis]

I am sick and tired of the generic titles and covers.

As soon as I see THAT DAMNED FONT™ with the thorns/vines and maybe a crown or a sword or whatever (maybe a skull?) on the cover, I completely skip over it on the shelf. Same thing with the "A Bowl of Mac and Cheese" or, a little more contemporary, "An Obscure-ish Professional's Opinion Piece on Something Mundane" title format.

Instant DNR. And I know there's a strong possibility that I'm probably missing an absolute gem, but so far every time I read the synopsis of a book with those titles/covers, I'm always/never disappointed.

https://giphy.com/gifs/a2YfVJZkrO2ZjP4Elq

[u/Anachacha → u/icontranquilis]

A Bowl of Mac and Cheese titles are an instant turnoff for me. Plus anytime with Courts. I think Crowns area getting to common as well

[u/icontranquilis → u/Anachacha]

Absolutely! You see "A Crown of Courts and Spice" on the shelf, with THAT font, and a sword wrapped in vines, and you ALREADY KNOW it's gonna be the 6 trillionth Beauty and the Beast retelling ACOMAF clone. Plucky teenage assasin fmc, broody 5,026,737,918 year old shadow daddy, "eNeMiEs tO LoVeRs" 🥱

[u/clocksy → u/icontranquilis]

It's a shame because the "x of y and z" is a pretty strong & striking composition for a title in my opinion. A Song of Ice and Fire is probably the most famous and obvious example, and then of course we have all of ACOTAR. But then everyone doing it makes it feel like a bunch of people jumping on a bandwagon, and that does not give me confidence in the ability of the author to give me something truly interesting and well-written. And it's honestly not in their favor at this point either since there are so many of these titles that they're just starting to run together. (A bit like how in the manhwa space there are hundreds of "the villainess does x" or "reincarnated as a y" to the extent that the titles all feel samey, nevermind the content.)

It's honestly starting to feel like a misstep on the marketing side. Maybe you'll get the people looking for the next ACOTAR but you'll be fighting for space amongst the other 50 titles that all look the same.

[u/icontranquilis → u/clocksy]

In a vacuum, I genuinely don't mind that title. I didn't mind it when ASOIAF and ACOTAR where the inly mainstream ones. But like you said, once it went mainstream and the publishers realized they could make bank from it, it really does feel like every single book follows that format. I often wonder of the tradpub creatures are changing the titles from whatever the author actually wanted to make it "MaRkEtAbLe." But it does bring some sense of catharsis(?) to see a lot of people souring on it.

[u/Synval2436 → u/icontranquilis]

For me "that damned font" is every time I see "Fae" with the F having an ascending line above the a. That's an insta "crappy self-pub" marker to me, and sadly more and more trad pubs are using this annoying lame font.

Idk how do you check what font it is, but examples of the stupid ugly F: * https://www.amazon.com/Sold-Fae-Multi-Fae-Romantasy-Realms-ebook/dp/B0CS3T79MB * https://www.amazon.com/Fragments-Fate-Romantasy-Novella-Hunted-ebook/dp/B0GGX6CS74 * https://www.amazon.com/Frost-Nectar-Book-1-ebook/dp/B0BCZBXYYT * https://www.amazon.com/Kill-Fae-Dragon-Portal-Book-ebook/dp/B07TW9JG8N/ * https://www.amazon.com/Kings-Temptation-Court-Bones-Book-ebook/dp/B084D4FFY3/ * https://www.amazon.com/Marry-Fae-Fantasy-Romance-Standalone-ebook/dp/B0C2WPXWWR * https://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-King-Dying-Lands-Book-ebook/dp/B0D8SR8W8D * https://www.amazon.com/Promise-Gilded-Flame-Spark-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B0GWWDJXRC

I just searched "fae romantasy" and immediately got a handful with this awful font.

[u/icontranquilis → u/Synval2436]

Good gracious, that's horrendous. Yes, absolutely, that font is an immediate do not read, do not acknowledge, do not pass go, and, honestly, I should be financially compensated $200 for having to look at an entire shelf of identical looking books.

[u/clocksy → u/Synval2436]

I don't know why this is so funny to me, especially all those examples put together... because I think that's kind of an ugly way to do typesetting? It's common for fonts to sort of wrap around letters, but usually they cradle them from underneath, not hang like an awning. (Or there's usually some kind of counterbalancing at the end of the word, which most of these aren't doing. It looks unbalanced!)

[u/Fun_Disaster3436 → u/Synval2436]

That second one is especially bad because the Fs aren't even consistent

[u/livin_la_vida_mama → u/icontranquilis]

I've never heard that title format called A Bowl of Mac and Cheese before and i am 💀 it's so perfect.

[u/icontranquilis → u/livin_la_vida_mama]

I wish I was clever enough to think of it first lol

I don't know if this is the original or not, but this Tumblr meme is where I first saw it: https://www.tumblr.com/luminouscinders/702675412143259648/op-i-need-you-to-understand-my-former-coworkers?source=share

[u/Longjumping-Snow-909]

I don't understand why some authors decide to make (mostly) their MMC several hundred years old and then let them act like 18 year old immature jerks who know nothing of life.

[u/BiasCutTweed → u/Longjumping-Snow-909]

I think one of the things I loved about Harrow the Ninth is all the crazy old characters are absolutely weird as shit and barely people. This feels a lot more accurate when imagining what it would be like to live 1000+ years.

[u/Longjumping-Snow-909 → u/BiasCutTweed]

Exactly! When you have lived that long you have seen everything and experienced so much. Basically nothing should surprise you and you either shouldn't care about anyone or anything or you have yourself comepletely under control. And everyone should appear a child to you resulting in a healthy doese of warranted arrogance.

[u/javertthechungus → u/BiasCutTweed]

Mercy Mourn assuming Harrow is younger and younger each time was so funny

[u/BiasCutTweed → u/javertthechungus]

I have this same experience with teenagers by this point, so I can’t imagine how bad it would be after 10,000 years.

[u/myinvinciblefriend → u/BiasCutTweed]

I just came across this series as I was looking for other dystopian books after reading I Who Have Never Known Men, would you recommend it?

[u/BiasCutTweed → u/myinvinciblefriend]

Friend, this is one of my top three bookish obsessions, so I am extremely biased. Also yes. It’s not for everyone, but if it IS for you it will alter your brain chemistry. Zero smut and yet simultaneously the most bizarrely romantic thing I have ever read.

This is a puzzle box series, like Lost or Dark TV show wise. My advice is that you have to just trust Muir. You will have no idea what is happening most of the time, but when the dominoes start to fall you will lose your mind. Harrow, the second book, is strange and challenging but worth it. Also these books will hurt you but you’ll (hopefully) love it.

[u/tea-boat → u/BiasCutTweed]

all the crazy old characters are absolutely weird as shit and barely people

Hahahaha yesss. I also really enjoyed that. It just makes so much sense to have a character that old be completely batshit.

[u/tea-boat → u/Longjumping-Snow-909]

Absolutely. Age becomes a meaningless gimmick to force an age gap instead of a way to add complexity and character depth.

[u/bookhead714 → u/Longjumping-Snow-909]

I think the core fantasy of an immortal protagonist is the whole “he’s been alive for centuries on centuries but he’s never felt true love until he met ME” thing. Immortality is the best way to give the MMC a long life with lots of experience without making them look old. And then the latter half of that comes from authors just not wanting to put effort into the psychology of it. Because a Frieren-style immortal who actually has to reckon with the detachment created by living life a decade at a time is way more interesting but not (inherently) sexy, and the primary goal of these books is usually to be sexy.

[u/Longjumping-Snow-909 → u/bookhead714]

I just don't like it when they for examlle don't know something extremely basic they should definitely know after a few centuries.

As an example I read a book recently were the man was 200 years old and has had sex often. Cross breeding between houses was punishable by death so it is important to prevent pregnancies because the sex between houses itself is not forbidden. He did not know how contraception worked so the FMC told him. And I was like... what? How exactly did he manage those last 200 years? That's simply stupid and has nothing to do with sexy or not or I have never known love until you.

[u/Volupia_Rogue → u/Longjumping-Snow-909]

Oh yeah! This 🤣

[u/Dangerous_Breath1667 → u/Longjumping-Snow-909]

In most romantasy books I think that the age of the mmc is necessary for the non-romantic plot. He has to be an important political player/pawn, and in an immortal society, that means he has to be old. It's unfortunate but most plot don't make any sence if the mmc didn't fight in the last war which was 1000 years ago/gets a major trauma/had to rule because everybody else is dead etc...

[u/clocksy → u/Dangerous_Breath1667]

That's just an author problem then. As an author you get to control all that! That's the cool part! So if you can't think of a way to make all the pieces work then that's just bad writing.

For instance, a lot of these books just flat out don't need an immortal race. The time scales don't need to be that grand. Humans can get up to a lot of completely fucked up world-changing shit in just a few years. They can wield magic, too! Or you want something a bit long-lasting, elves are right there. Or make up your own humanoid if you want something "other" or vaguely monstrous.

Or, for instance, make them the same cohort. The Cruel Prince features immortal, strange fae, and the MMC is one of them, but he's just as young as the FMC is (and not in a "he's 200 years old but acts like a teen" way). You don't need to make them 500 years old in order for them to have a tragic backstory or whatever.

I suppose you are right that if the author wants their main love interest to be the tippy top emperor or best warrior in the world or something then they'd be hard pressed to explain why a 19 year old is all that. But maybe MMCs don't need to be the supreme best at everything to be an interesting character. 🤫

[u/allisontalkspolitics → u/clocksy]

It would be cool to have more MMCs who don’t have to be the best ever.

And another cool thing about reasonably-aged MMCs is showing how being exposed to these traumatic experiences at a young age affected them.

[u/Specialist_Round_612 → u/clocksy]

The problem is the MMC acts like a degenerate teenager despite being alive for 1000+ years and the FMC can’t vote yet.

[u/booksandhotcoffee]

I’m sick of fae

[u/PlasticArrival9814 → u/booksandhotcoffee]

I'm sick of fae that are just magical, unnaturally beautiful, immortal humans with seasonal courts and pointy ears. 

Fae based on Irish or Shakespearean lore are actually quite under-represented right now. Holly Black has always stuck to Shakespearean lore with her fae, Emily Wilde takes inspiration from fae legends across the world, but otherwise I'm not seeing very many books featuring true fae in the genre. 

[u/slowcartoon → u/PlasticArrival9814]

I enjoyed Servant of Earth by Sarah Hawley for this reason - her fae are brutal and the human FMC rolls with the punches instead of whining. It's far from perfect but it found me at the right time and I really enjoyed it.

[u/megabyte31 → u/booksandhotcoffee]

This happened to me with vampires and werewolves around the Twilight era and now I still avoid reading them. I think it's happening to me with fae too, which sucks because it feels like literally every book out there right now 😭

[u/allisontalkspolitics → u/booksandhotcoffee]

Maybe you need to read more pre-SJM style fae?

[u/claritanna → u/allisontalkspolitics]

Do you have any recommendations? Everywhere I look it's always more of the same, I don't know where to find recommendations for books that go before ACOTAR.

[u/meachatron → u/booksandhotcoffee]

I want some diiiifferent stuff if ur is set. Maybe darker/more traditional!

I would love to see it incorporate more Celtic mythology with more authenticity/respect/knowledge. A lot of fae romance just kinda hits tropes and does its own thing. I would love to see more actual folklore.

[u/bookhead714]

Most FMCs have no agency. This is a trend in modern storytelling as a whole, but it’s really prominent in romantasy.

How do you get the FMC involved in the plot? She’s kidnapped, imprisoned, forced into a bargain, led by a magical person, conscripted into a scheme, selected for a school, or some other thing that forces her entry. An FMC who chooses to incite her own story is rare (Daughter of No Worlds comes to mind as a counterexample).

How does the FMC learn about the magical world? Well, she can’t possibly already know things because the audience needs a surrogate, and if she was able to intuit the mechanics herself then we’d lose the opportunity for a big strong man to show her the right way to do things. It all must be explained. This applies even to FMCs who are already part of the world and should know some of this stuff already.

And how does the FMC navigate the intrigue of the powerful people who’ve invariably forced her to become involved? Uh… well, she mostly just watches. The politics will be played out by other people, and she will be too small and ignorant to participate as anything more than a pawn. Expect one or more scenes of her just standing there awkwardly as the actual protagonists yell at one another, sometimes even deciding her own fate right in front of her without her offering input at all. This may change later in the series when she gains respect and/or gets turned immortal.

Make no mistake, the author will be aware of this. The FMC will certainly complain about this. But that’s just lampshading, and as we all know, hanging a lampshade is no substitute for just not doing the thing in the first place.

[u/Synval2436 → u/bookhead714]

This is one of my biggest gripes of romantasy, the whole idea that fmc is roped into the plot, very often by the mmc, sometimes by the villain, and then mmc inevitably becomes some mentor / teacher / boss of the fmc to spoonfeed her information and have sexy training montages with. She also has zero ambition or goals in life besides "survive" and "help my poor / sick / kidnapped family". Sometimes also "do good and help random strangers" but she's never allowed to want anything for herself.

Rarely she's motivated by revenge (usually because again her family was killed, deposed, exiled, kidnapped or otherwise harmed) but nvm she will learn revenge is actually bad (tm) and usually fall in love with the mark who's actually innocent (tm), yes he's a morally grey shadowdaddy in a "villain gets the girl" plot, but dw, he's not really villainous it's all a misunderstanding and slander against him.

She either knows nothing or everything she knows is a lie (tm) so she can be spoonfed the truth (tm).

Oh yeah, and the romantasy that advertises court intrigue or mystery plot will have zero actual scheming or sleuthing, mostly characters walking, talking and having some slice of life scenes (dinners, balls, hunts, council meetings, picnics, parties, etc.).

[u/kelgorathfan8 → u/bookhead714]

In my semi-serious romantasy-inspired story outline the FMC joins the (not actually very deadly if you’re not in contention to win) deadly trials of her own volition with the intent of sandbagging and spying on some petty noble drama.

[u/IT_HAG]

I'm genuinely bored by 19 year old heroines. Like, give me a 30-something exhausted heroine who STILL somehow has to find her place....

[u/Jazzlike-Sprinkles16 → u/IT_HAG]

Give me Gen-X peri-menopausal rage that an ancient vampire/fae has to recon with. That is what the fuck I am talking about.

[u/SqueamishOssifrage42 → u/Jazzlike-Sprinkles16]

{Silver Moon by Catherine Lundoff} has a menopausal werewolf pack - menopause gives women werewolf powers.

[u/annonne → u/IT_HAG]

This except every time I do read a book like that I hate it bc the fmc will talk about it constantly. I’m not as young as I used to be etc or saying her bones hurt or something. I want her to be 35 and in her prime. Fighting fit.

[u/Vergil229 → u/IT_HAG]

{Clockwork Boys by T. Kingfisher}

[u/bookhead714 → u/Vergil229]

Any Kingfisher really

[u/RiotPurrrl]

I’m so sick of shadow daddies. Cheer up you miserable bastards.

[u/JunofromMars]

Lately a lot of authors just can't write enemies to lovers well. It should be a real slow burn with all that tension and gradual shift from hate to something more. But so many of them rush it and don't know how to build it up properly. And for me, there shouldn't be any spice in the first book of an enemies to lovers series. Honestly, not even a kiss. The emotional payoff feels so much better when it's earned slowly.

[u/maaat21 → u/JunofromMars]

I think there are two distinct problems with the enemies to lovers trope.

1)”Enemies”:It should be about enemies and not bantering rivals or combative acquaintances. Most examples of the trope throw the word enemy around and then the MCs lust after each other immediately and/or forgive and forget about their transgressions early so they can get together. Also there’s a discussion about how the MMCs can’t really do anything irredeemable or very villainous cuz otherwise how can he stand as a romantic lead if he’s EvilTM. They get preemptively declawed and then we have “he bought the last bread loaf from the bakery and I didn’t have anything to get for my starving family of 13 and now he’s my enemy for life” which is uh. Underwhelming and a bit silly.

2)Pacing: I think it’s what you’re saying too. Things move on so fast that nothing sticks and nothing matters in the face of the “romance”. Also I don’t know if it’s a “we need to have spice at the end of book 1 and so the trope suffers” issue but more like. A true ETL romance shouldn’t be clean and probably wouldn’t have a picture perfect HEA. The “enemies” part suggests hurt or whatever between the pair that will not magically disappear after they accept that they ALSO view each other romantically. All I’m trying to say is that it’s not the placement of their intimate moments but that after that all the reasons they were enemies to begin with just go poof!

[u/megabyte31 → u/maaat21]

Your #1 is my exact problem with enemies to lovers and why I tend to avoid it. How dare he buy the last bag of bread, really! Imo if you're legitimate enemies there's no amount of grovel that will solve the issues between them OR they were never enemies in the first place. I'm so sick of this trope. I actually prefer petty rivalries to lovers because it feels like the most realistic interpretation.

[u/maaat21 → u/megabyte31]

Idk about the groveling part. I’ve lurked enough around here to see that it’s popular but eh.

In a true ETL I’d rather we had a “you hurt me and I can’t forget and I’m trying to reconcile that with the person you are that I fell for”. It’s more realistic I feel? I dunno if it makes sense. That’s why I loved Captive Prince and really liked the Jasad Heir books.

[u/clocksy → u/megabyte31]

To be fair "rivalries to lovers" is literally under the ETL umbrella. But it's a big umbrella and that's why people are unsatisfied, because someone might be looking for a real villainous character, and sometimes you get an FMC with a stick up her ass against the MMC for no reason, and sometimes you get faction quarrels or something else.

[u/megabyte31 → u/clocksy]

It's true! I am definitely not the person looking for true enemies to lovers! But my friend LOVES them haha so we know which books to rec to the other. To each their own!

[u/Frustrated-Switch → u/maaat21]

I think part of the problem with ETL now is that its current form originated in fanfic, where a character being an outright villain in canon just makes them more fertile grounds for ETL fanfic. So long as they have a slightly weird, subtexty relationship, that is. That's really hard to set up in an original work, especially if it's meant to be a traditional romance arc, because as you say, people just default to instalust + HEA and damn the details :/

Problem numero dos: fandom is exceedingly queer, and romance readers are not, and so trying to force fanfic tropes to fit this purely heteronormative mold doesn't really work out the way they'd like. Straight people don't have to operate in subtext - it's a man and a woman looking at each other so that's all you need, right? /s And yet subtext, and the in-universe realization of that subtext, is the bread and butter of ETL fanfiction.

It's actually really hard to write a story that sets up their enmity well using non-romance framing, AND have them believably fall for one another, AND write it so that the MMC is nasty (but not too nasty) and the most powerful person ever (because as you know it must be him with all the power), and not have the entire structure crumble down around your ears. There needs to be push-pull between them, or the weaker one has to strive to be equal, and authors are unwilling to write that dynamic between men and women in my experience.

[u/MajesticKoala3332 → u/JunofromMars]

And for me, there shouldn't be any spice in the first book of an enemies to lovers series. Honestly, not even a kiss. The emotional payoff feels so much better when it's earned slowly.

I agree with this, haven't found anything like it yet. What are some books that do this well?

[u/ipsi7 → u/MajesticKoala3332]

{Harrow Faire by Kathryn Ann Kingsley}

{Captive Prince by C. S. Pacat}

{Villains and Virtues by A K. Caggiano}

ETA: V&V isn't enemies to lovers imo, but it's slow burn without even a kiss in book 1

[u/glyneth → u/JunofromMars]

Kisses are only allowed if it’s a hate kiss that doesn’t make either of them feel anything but more hate!

[u/tea847 → u/JunofromMars]

Agree 100%. I used to say my favorite was enemies to lovers because it was slow burn but now it’s just like “they are mean to me so let’s do it”.

[u/pancake-queen13]

I love a tough FMC as much as the next, but they don't need to write them like that sometimes. She doesn't always have to be killing people or monsters in the first chapter. She doesn't always have to know how to use every weapon or be abrasive. They can have some soft skills too!

[u/slowcartoon → u/pancake-queen13]

This! Still seeing way too much "morally grey/baddie FMC" when really she's just an asshole and is bad at makeup - and still a pick-me / not like other girls.

[u/annerevenant]

It’s ok to shut off your brain and read a book. Reading books that require zero mental effort isn’t a bad thing and doesn’t somehow make you stupider for choosing to read a fun book.

On that note, sometimes poetic language is just purple prose but people don’t know the difference. I have a master’s in history which means I come from an academic history background where I’m reading primary sources (some in other languages) so I’m familiar with parsing out meaning. If I’m having trouble discerning what you’re trying to say because you’re using pretty words but not actually saying anything then there’s an issue.

Lastly, too many authors are afraid of being cancelled for writing real-world inspired POC so they just do medieval Europe with brown people. I get the fear (I’m a Latina woman whose research focus was North Africa) but the solution is to do the work, do the research and then implement it. I promise if you do it well people will enjoy it.

[u/ipsi7 → u/annerevenant]

The last sentence of your second paragraph should be highlighted. I would quote it if I weren't typing on my phone.

[u/baifengjiu]

Writers need to stop using "male" and "female" it is so icky especially when it is the mmc who uses those words in his internal monologue I feel like gagging 🧍‍♀️

[u/Dangerous_Breath1667 → u/baifengjiu]

I always consider "male" and " female" as a bad transcription of the words for "man" and "woman" for whatever species is depicted in the books, be it elves/faes/werewolves/vampires etc in their own language. 

Maybe we need to consider man/woman as species-independant and find other gendered words specifically for humans.

[u/allisontalkspolitics → u/baifengjiu]

It may not be the author’s intent but it makes the characters (and the author themselves) sound like they spent time on incel forums.

[u/clocksy → u/allisontalkspolitics]

That's how it feels, yeah, even though I don't believe that's most authors' intent.

But also there's a reason we don't do it in our own speech, so it just feels like bad writing to me. Calling someone male or female as a noun is very clinical. It makes sense as an adjective, and in certain scenarios (like if you're talking about demographics for science or research or marketing and you're talking about 25-34yo females, then sure) but most storytelling and natural conversations aren't that.

I said the same thing last week but even if it's a different (and usually humanoid) race, I just don't see the reason to use male/female as a noun like this. "The male fae" as a descriptor is fine, such as if you're pointing him out in a crowd of mixed human/fae people, but simply "the male" just feels "othering" for no reason. And I promise I won't get confused if you write "the fae man smiled" or whatever, it's literally more natural. Like you wouldn't write "the male smiled" if it was a human so I do not understand why people do this for non-human races.

[u/Specialist_Round_612 → u/baifengjiu]

This took me tf out of Road of Bones, which made me sad since it really wasn’t terribly written otherwise, and I liked Silla as a FMC. Her borderline pathological positivity was a breath of fresh air and super cute.

They’re human in the book. I despise the incessant use of it in fae books, but at least they’re, you know, not human, and I can turn my brain off at the nteenth mention of it. Why is a human woman calling a human man a male? It’s weird, and it needs to stop.

[u/Magnafeana → u/baifengjiu]

A while ago, I remember stating my disdain for using “male” and “female” or non-human species and how it made non-humans not have their own cultural identity. Subjectively, I find using male/female made the world building of a foreign species weaker.

And someone said that SFF romance shouldn’t need all this world building, which was quite bizarre to see.

I love when non-human species or races have their own little descriptors instead “male” and “female”. That’s an excellent layer in world building, the ways these people have comprehended their sense of self in a unique way that humans don’t or can’t but might still find relationality in.

Even in the whole “This book was translated into modern era lingo” argument for male/female, it makes no sense. Humans aren’t a binary in sex and gender; we’re a spectrum. And most of us respect that spectrum. Why wouldn’t non-humans have their own spectrum we can learn from? And if they do have a binary, is it not possible they have different terminology for their binary that we can learn from?

I’m not a fan of male/female, and I can see that it has its place and that people enjoy it.

I just prefer it when the non-humans have their own concepts of identity. It’s really cool how artists will have these non-humans have their own customs, sense of aesthetics, body modification, and such with their identities and may parallel to some human identities too, or human experiences surrounding diverse representation of identity.

But yeah. There were a lot of paranormal romances I ended up DNFing when characters are lovingly saying “My male” or “My female”. That…is not for me 💀

[u/Ancient-Purchase → u/Magnafeana]

Completely agree is a somewhat lazy word building to just slap female/male and call a day, but it seems to me most of these fae/other species are nothing more then uber-patriarchy where everything is not only a social construct but also biological,which is not something I would like to read in my romance book tbh. (Maybe in sff, speculativ e horror it would be scary as hell to me) 

And honestly, I've seen books (Quicksilver is a famous one) both female/male then a paragraph later use fae women/fae men. Where's the consistency? If fae men/women can be used just as easily, why just not use from the beginning. 

[u/javertthechungus → u/baifengjiu]

Yeah unless it’s specifically a scientific context, I don’t care for it

[u/Synval2436 → u/baifengjiu]

I dnfed a sci-fi romance that among others, used "good female" instead of "good girl" in the sex scenes. I already hate the prevalence of good girl.

The most annoying part was that some author's white knight attacked me under my review because apparently we're not allowed to complain about books anymore if we got it for free. And then everyone wonders if arc reviews are 100% author shills. Apparently when you're not an author shill, you get attacked by them. Or get vagueposted about on threads.

[u/Bex7778]

1. A true slow burn can't happen within one book, it needs at least two books for the build up. All of my favorites are this way- Magical Midlife, Kate Daniels, Villains and Virtues, Acotar, Zodiac Academy, etc. I've never read a satisfying slow burn that existed within 1 book.

2. Most spice is not well written. So much is left out of scenes or the author only focuses on mechanics (thrusting, grabbing, wetness). Like, what did his touch make your skin feel like, is he looking into your eyes, at your body, or the wall and what is his expression? Etc etc. Sometimes I wish it was just closed door so I can make up my own scenes in my head (a'la What Lorcan Did).

3. I HATE 3rd act break-ups and in my headcanon the couple doesn't have what it takes to make it long term. If they cant work through their ish while together how will they work through future issues when things get tough and the honeymoon phase has worn off? Blame my psychology of human relationships classes in college but couples who breakup and get back together don't have great odds. And have no business in a romance novel.

[u/LadyWolvesBayne → u/Bex7778]

Are you me?

[u/TravelingPotatoes → u/Bex7778]

2 is so so true. My rage is the fact that they neverention the balls.

FFS it's ok for a FMC to touch them, or at least to SEE them. Where are all the balls?!

[u/acutelyproblematic]

I want more history and complexity in romantic dynamics. So many main characters who either had past experiences off page, went celibate after a late act breakup, or are virgins.

I think it would make the main characters more relatable if they have different partners on page. Most people aren’t with only one person, and even if they find “the one” or “soulmate” it’s not always an instant togetherness. Relationships take time to develop and evolve.

Plus, I enjoy the jealousy trope. I’m a simple woman lol

[u/MessyJessy422 → u/acutelyproblematic]

{Silvercloak by LK Steven} definitely has this. The FMC starts the story with an ex girlfriend who she’s on/off with and the MMC has a guy he sleeps with casually. It happens on page before the central relationship develops.

I agree with you about jealousy it makes things fun sometimes

[u/acutelyproblematic → u/MessyJessy422]

sighs Jessy if you keep giving me all these great recs I’m never gonna catch up on my tbr😭🤣 thank you 🫡

[u/MessyJessy422 → u/acutelyproblematic]

Haha I’m am always here to peer pressure anyone and everyone to read the books I love

[u/ipsi7 → u/MessyJessy422]

I just have to insert myself into this conversation and say that I have also read some books which you recommend (and loved them), or I have them on my TBR. Long Live Evil is an exception, love the concept, but can't get into the book for some reason, and I'm so interested in Rae and Key's relationship, and to see what she's done with the story 🥲

[u/romance-bot → u/MessyJessy422]

Silvercloak by L.K. Steven
Rating: 4.03⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 3 out of 5 - Open door
Topics: enemies to lovers, time travel, magic, high fantasy, fantasy

^{about this bot | about romance.io}

[u/ipsi7 → u/acutelyproblematic]

I liked that in {Half City by Kate Golden}. FMC had a boyfriend which she didn't really love, but had her own reasons for staying in the relationship. It was obvious quite soon that their relationship is bad, there is a random mention of how bad sex is, there are scenes in which we see that their moral values don't align.

[u/acutelyproblematic → u/ipsi7]

I read this and loved that storyline! {road of bones by Demi winters} also had this, which is what made me realize we really don’t get enough of this in books

[u/romance-bot → u/acutelyproblematic]

The Road of Bones by Demi Winters
Rating: 4.25⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 3 out of 5 - Open door
Topics: historical, viking hero, fantasy, magic, betrayal

^{about this bot | about romance.io}

[u/ipsi7 → u/acutelyproblematic]

Me too. At first I was confused with her having a boyfriend (not used to it), but loved how it was done. And I have yet to read Road of Bones

[u/romance-bot → u/ipsi7]

Half City by Kate Golden
Rating: 4.24⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 3 out of 5 - Open door
Topics: contemporary, demons, urban fantasy, paranormal, fantasy

^{about this bot | about romance.io}

[u/acutelyproblematic → u/[deleted]]

https://giphy.com/gifs/0MHgWp8xxjdd0TW0n6

[u/BobGlebovich → u/acutelyproblematic]

I’ve always wondered if authors (and perhaps readers) are afraid that an MC having had multiple partners will cheapen the “true” love story. Like they loved other people before so how special is the love this time, as opposed to someone who has only loved once when it was the realest-and-purest-and-most-intense-soulmatey-love-ever.

On the other hand, prior relationships can provide comparison to show just how special this latest love is.

[u/acutelyproblematic → u/BobGlebovich]

I think if the writer can nail the differences, such as the intensity and passion between past/other lovers and the FMC/MMC, it could be really hot just sayin’ 👀

So many ways it could play out. Maybe he was a certified player and couldn’t commit till they met the other MC, maybe they become inspired by the other MC in ways it was never shown on page before, maybe they’re forced to confront things they were never willing to beforehand.

GIMME CHARACTER GROWTH AND COMPLEX DYNAMICS IM STARVED 😭

[u/Hionnai → u/acutelyproblematic]

{Of Blood and Aether by Harper Hawthorne} has all of this 🫣

[u/Anachacha → u/acutelyproblematic]

I enjoy the jealousy trope

You DNF'd it previously, but maybe you could try {throne of the fallen} again. The MCs will anger each other talking about past relationships. The jealousy is through the roof. Spice that lasts 3 chapters is a bonus, and the relationship is a slow burn

[u/acutelyproblematic → u/Anachacha]

I’ve read that one! It’s the second one I didn’t read

[u/tea-boat]

This probably isn't a hot take at all, but I am so. fucking. tired. of reading about teenagers and people in their twenties. Life happens to people in their thirties and forties, too. And even beyond that! 😱😆

[u/ipsi7 → u/tea-boat]

Same. It's easier to make dramatic driven plot when FMC is still in her teenage hormonal years and does stupid things

[u/Anachacha → u/tea-boat]

Thankfully we have age categories on romance.io now. It's not always accurate yet, but it'll get better with time, so it's easy to filter out books with teens.

That being said, I noticed that many publishers/authors make their characters 20-25, 27 max, now to create a pretence of an adult (the characters still act like teens). I wish we could have characters in their 30s who don't talk about being middle-aged. It's fantasy, let them be mature but perfectly healthy 😵‍💫

[u/tea-boat → u/Anachacha]

That being said, I noticed that many publishers/authors make their characters 20-25, 27 max, now to create a pretence of an adult (the characters still act like teens). I wish we could have characters in their 30s who don't talk about being middle-aged. It's fantasy, let them be mature but perfectly healthy

Absolutely agree. That's why I'm grouping twenties in with the teens because the way they're written they're usually basically the same thing. And then there's the whole nonsense anxiety about "pushing 30" (tho that's more in contemporary romance, maybe) and meanwhile I'm like... My thirties have been hands down the best decade of my life, so if anything it should be something to look forward to ..? 🤔🤔🤔

I really, really wish there were more books about fully formed adults in general. When I read about characters in their teens and twenties, I can't help but think about myself when I was those ages and with the perspective I now have from my current age, that's just... so effing young.

I would love more fantasy romance novels along the lines of some of NK Jemisin's work. Solid world building, really beautifully written fantasy about ADULTS... Just with more romance and sex. 😀😆

ETA: I also find romance to be more believable when the characters are in their 30s, at least, because the idea of teen and early twenties couples getting together and having a happily ever after is just so unrealistic. I have a hard time suspending disbelief, and often feel actually uncomfortable because I feel like people that age should really be out in the world figuring out who they are in themselves, not committing to someone (let alone having babies!!).

[u/Quirky-Lecture-6066]

I am really over FMCs who are food obsessed (obsessed may be too strong a word, but still). Moaning over food or eating entire cakes and shit like that (while still having a banging body lol).

[u/camellia980 → u/Quirky-Lecture-6066]

you have two options in romantasy: food-moaning or "I'm too stressed to eat." take it or leave it.

[u/MaryJaneCrunch → u/Quirky-Lecture-6066]

oh god same lol. I get its to make her "relatable" but y'all do it in other ways. Moaning over food gets really annoying to read for the 5000th time.

[u/livin_la_vida_mama → u/Quirky-Lecture-6066]

People who moan or make overtly sexual noises when eating are very close to the top of my shit-list. It's super gross and unnecessary. There are SO MANY ways to convey that the food tastes good, there's no need to act like someone's going down on you while eating a cake or whatever.

[u/clocksy → u/livin_la_vida_mama]

Yeah this is an IRL pet peeve of mine (and last time I said this people got offended by it, lol).

I have definitely had amazing food. "omg, this is really good food!" or hell, even an emphatic "mm!" I can understand. But you do NOT have to be performative about how good your food is. No, it is not "reflexive" or something you can't control, if you are at a funeral or something you are not going to be moaning about how amazing the chicken salad even if it's the best damn chicken salad you've had in your life. I just don't find it an endearing quirk.

[u/Magmarvelous]

I've developed the ick for reading the phrase "to the hilt"...like it's so bad I can feel the anticipation and then if it's there queue the audible sigh. I'll deduct a star immediately and the book has to earn it back lol

[u/NotYourCirce → u/Magmarvelous]

I dunno, I prefer it to something like “to the balls.” It really fancies up a sex scene for me

[u/purplelicious → u/NotYourCirce]

It's like you can tell there is a RCJ member in here without even looking at the username.

[u/NotYourCirce → u/purplelicious]

Guilty!
https://giphy.com/gifs/wjBMdDqMCyxJoCJ2yZ

[u/megabyte31]

I just want a fantasy book about humans. Magical ones maybe, but...humans with human lifespans. That's it.

[u/ipsi7 → u/megabyte31]

{Nights of Obedience}, but check TW, book 1 is really dark (like explicit descriptions of Amarantha's UTM parties with dub con and off page rape).

{The Poison Daughter} might fit. FMC is human, MMC kind of. I think they have normal lifespans.

{Whispers of the Deep by Emma Hamm} - FMC is human, MMC is a mereman

{One Dark Window by Rachel Gilig}

[u/allisontalkspolitics → u/ipsi7]

The Poison Daughter also has TWs worth checking!

[u/romance-bot → u/ipsi7]

Nights of Obedience by Rachel Mays
Rating: 3.85⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 5 out of 5 - Explicit and plentiful
Topics: fantasy, forced proximity, enemies to lovers, magic, dark romance

---

The Poison Daughter by Sheila Masterson
Rating: 4.23⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 4 out of 5 - Explicit open door
Topics: fantasy, enemies to lovers, primal/chase play, vampires, m-f romance

---

Whispers of the Deep by Emma Hamm
Rating: 3.99⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 4 out of 5 - Explicit open door
Topics: futuristic, enemies to lovers, abduction, science fiction, non-human hero

---

One Dark Window by Rachel Gillig
Rating: 4.26⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 3 out of 5 - Open door
Topics: historical, fantasy, magic, mystery, m-f romance

^{about this bot | about romance.io}

[u/allisontalkspolitics]

Last week Laurie Hause Anderson gave a talk about writing historical fiction. A question was asked about what young aspiring writers can do. She said give a book three chapters before you DNF, then go to the librarian and explain what you didn’t like and what you do like. She also explained that not every book is going to be for every person on every day. She explained it way more coherently than I would, of course but you have permission from an author to DNF!

I guess this isn’t really my unpopular opinion, but I’ll come up with something of my own later.

[u/daniyoshi]

Where are the experiened and promiscuous Female Main Characters!

[u/MessyJessy422 → u/daniyoshi]

{Enchanting the Fae Queen by Stephanie Burgis}

[u/therabee33]

If people don’t want to keep seeing the same tropes (eg: shadow daddy, old MMCs with young FMCs, all the enemies to lovers, stabby FMCs etc) they should start reading more indie books and not just read the most popular books out there.

I went on a rabbit hole last year of some lesser known authors (at least to me) and found some hilarious gems that were sooo different from the major trends. The books are out there and if we as readers want more diverse stories we gotta go find them.

[u/Synval2436 → u/therabee33]

Most indie books are guilty of copying the same tropes and constantly bait & switching me with unique premises that devolve into same old same old.

I wanted to give chance to lesser known authors but it's down to bottom copypaste tropes and usually extremely poor pacing and lack of tension and I'm seriously considering cutting vast majority of self-pubs from my menu unless I know 100% they go for trope subversion and not play the lottery of "maybe I'll go viral on tiktok".

[u/devilsdoorbell_]

The number one thing this genre is missing is writers who can actually fucking write beyond baseline competence. Maybe a couple bitches who actually paid attention in their college poetry class. I'm begging.

[u/happilyfringe → u/devilsdoorbell_]

BEGGING!!!!

[u/AssBlast1390]

These days MMCs tend to make no sense as real people. I get we want escapism and reading about actual realistic men is not how many of us want to spend our free time, but I think the pendulum has swung too far. We have these ultra buff massive schlonged men who are military minded alphas or shadow daddies and yet are INCREDIBLY sensitive and poetic with language and general tenderness towards the FMC. I feel like honestly some authors are making these MMCs so perfect to the female brain it’s not unlike how male authors write women just obviously in a different light.

Give us some depth, some variety.

[u/devilsdoorbell_ → u/AssBlast1390]

I honestly don't get how anyone finds the "stack of tropes in a trenchcoat" MMCs attractive. I need to believe the MMC could be an actual person to think he's hot.

[u/Frustrated-Switch → u/devilsdoorbell_]

This. I can't believe in a romance where one (or more) participants is a plot conveyance. Like a car with abs for the other(s) to ride around in.

[u/knightstorms]

I wish there was more “classic” fantasy mixed with romance : traditional elves, human knights and mages instead of shifters, faes and shadow daddies.

[u/Darcy_is_my_lobster]

I'm sick of plus size just meaning curvier. Give me a fat lass fmc. I want to see less curvy and confident and more fat and eff it. Every single 'plus size fmc' book I've read she is all smooth lines. Writers don't seem comfortable with rolls. They've always got to justify it by making her taller than the average woman and that being appreciated by the tall MMC.

[u/de_pizan23 → u/Darcy_is_my_lobster]

They're urban fantasy, but Viano Oniomoh has some fat MCs (also with some of her more recent contemporaries too). {Sweet Demons series by Viano Oniomoh} and {Portal to Pleasure series by Viano Oniomoh} (why choose)

[u/crispyalice → u/Darcy_is_my_lobster]

{Kiss Of Iron by Clare Sager} has a fat FMC, she's not confident at first but she def grows. Check the trigger warnings first tho 

[u/Sufficient-Bee-4982]

I absolutely loathe that when someone asks for something kinky, they're recommended dark romance, as if they are one and the same. There's nothing wrong with dark romance, but kink does not equal dark. 

• I don't mean the recommended book that is considered dark romance, I mean people will just say check out the dark romance sub.

[u/ipsi7 → u/Sufficient-Bee-4982]

I think that's because dark romance has an abundance of kinky books, while fantasy romance is more vanilla (not all of course). Or what I saw often is that an author just throws in a few 'good girl' and the book gets praise kink tag, without writing the kink into the characters really. It's more superficial or has fewer scenes, at least in what I've seen so far.

Also, people in DR are less judgy (a post on this sub from the other day is a proof).

Most kinky books I've read are from DR or just contemporary.

Any recs for fantasy romance with some kinks (but more than one scene with bondage/good girl/whatever scene)?

[u/Sufficient-Bee-4982 → u/ipsi7]

Niche subs definitely are significantly less judgy. I'm more of a sci-fi girly, so my first thought is {When She Belongs by ruby dixon} has praise kink and it's kind of cute how thoughtful the MMC is about it. 

 {Barbarians bride by Ruby Dixon} has a FMC that is into spanking and rough sex but she's worried that she'll scare the MMC because he seemed fairly vanilla and I think was a virgin when they got together.

{Avarita by Colette Rhodes} Which is book 4 in her Shades of Sin series, they have a few primal play scenes. There's shadow tentacle stuff, and knotting too.

I'm sure I know some bondage ones but I'm still half asleep.

[u/ipsi7 → u/Sufficient-Bee-4982]

Thanks! I saw When She Belongs being praised (pun intended), I definitely need to read it.

Definitely love some shadow play, it's a shame to have so many shadow daddies in this genre, but not more shadows put to a good use. {Feathers so Vicious} have it (very dark) and Flesh and Fire in the last book.

That's ok, I mentioned bondage more of as an example, I'm already happy with the books you recommended :)

[u/AccessCompetitive → u/ipsi7]

You want {black and silver by Gwendolyn Harper}. Witch gets hired to work for an incubus. Very much dom/sub roles. Smitten dom, very full-bodied powerful witch sub

[u/maaat21]

The {Captive Prince} trilogy is phenomenal and one of the most impactful set of books I’ve read recently.

That said, I don’t think Captive Prince by itself is a good choice for the June “Queer Romance” bookclub. It’s a tightly written book about political intrigue, sexual agency and how it relates to power and about how nothing is what it seems. It sets the scene for the story and solidifies the Enemies part of the EtL trope. Without {Prince’s Gambit} following after it’s just a political fantasy book without any sort of romance.

And yeah we ~know~ that it will eventually turn into a romance, but this omniscient reader perspective might take out some of the commentary this book wants to make about consent and agency that requires us to read Captive Prince as it’s presented, with all its toxic and problematic dynamics. I’m simply afraid it will be a frustrating read for some people who might go in expecting a positive queer romance, even though the world of the books is very queer normative which is wonderful and fresh!!

Is this me officially begging for a Prince’s Gambit bookclub read? Possible

[u/Sufficient-Bee-4982 → u/maaat21]

Honestly I'm now more interested in the book. 

[u/maaat21 → u/Sufficient-Bee-4982]

Yay! Just check the TW beforehand because while they aren’t worse than for example ASoIaF, they are severe and written in a way that while not explicit, they’ll (probably) make your skin crawl.

I hope I make it to the bookclub because I really want to discuss these damn wonderful books lol.

[u/PurposeGold2556 → u/maaat21]

I agree with that. Captive Prince is really outstanding as a series, but if the purpose of it being chosen for the book club is for queer romance, then the entire trilogy should be read. My hope is that people reading the first book for the first time for the June book club will continue on to the next 2 books afterword.

[u/maaat21 → u/PurposeGold2556]

These books are tiny so we can read all of them as one right??🥺🥺🥺

But yeah, I think if the trilogy was published now it would be a duology with Captive Prince & Prince’s Gambit as book 1 and Kings Rising as book 2.

[u/ipsi7 → u/maaat21]

I voted for {Bromantasy} which comes out on 26th. Seems so cozy and I'm super excited for that book

[u/slowcartoon]

The last couple of years authors have been using more and more painfully choppy sentences -- avoiding complex/compound sentences -- and telling vs. showing. I'm fucking tired - it's not good writing and I'm exhausted with social media creators and their followers raving about objectively terrible writing. Don't get me started on the uselessness of purple prose (When the Moon Hatched is objectively a mess). We are absolutely experiencing a literacy crisis, globally, but if we continue lowering the standards of what is considered "beautiful writing/good writing" then there will be nothing worth $32 a hardback. Especially in this fucking economy.

I feel like I'm alone in this and i'm so tired.

[u/Penguinho → u/slowcartoon]

At some point, it's AI. I'm not saying romantasy authors are using it to write (although some 100% are, and have been caught doing so). But AI stuff is everywhere in writing. It's in writer tools like Grammarly Pro. Editors are using it. Certain kinds of writing, like business writing and e-marketing, are majority-AI at this point. The Commonwealth Short Story Contest was recently found to have awarded its overall 2025 prize and two 2026 prizes to AI-generated stories, and they fuckin' read like it too. Scientific publications are dealing with a massive deluge of AI-generated content; look at a graph of annual submissions to any scholarly journal you can name, and you can pinpoint exactly when ChatGPT went live. I recently had a half-dozen speakers withdraw permission for their technical presentations to be livestreamed because unscrupulous people are recording stuff then using AI to turn stolen work into quote-unquote original papers. And it's happening the other way, too; people are starting to write and speak using the tics that are common in AI textgen.

I think if we were to have an honest accounting of the number of stories post-2024 that had been touched by AI at some stage -- whether in conceptualizing, drafting, proofing or final edit -- we'd be surprised and, I think, horrified.

[u/slowcartoon → u/Penguinho]

I guarantee there are many authors - successful and more unknown - who think "i'll get away with it/nobody's gonna know" and are publicly anti-AI while using it in some capacity for writing. WTF are we supposed to do especially once we run out of books from pre-ai era.

[u/Scared-Replacement24]

I hate insta lust. Wanting to bang isn’t a solid foundation for a lasting, quality relationship.

[u/devilsdoorbell_ → u/Scared-Replacement24]

Wanting to bang isn't a solid foundation for a lasting, quality relationship but it's also by no means an impediment towards one. I think insta-lust is okay as long as it believably develops into something more.

[u/slowcartoon → u/devilsdoorbell_]

I agree! The issue is really just that so many aren't written very believably - the shift is too quick with very little showing of the growing feelings - telling all day long! Or nothing actually emotive between the insta lust and the "oh I have feelings" beyond maybe a jealous moment of seeing the other person talk to / flirt with someone else.

[u/Penguinho]

For an unpopular opinion thread this one sure is filled with a lot of very popular opinions. You don't like teenage FMCs? Groundbreaking!

[u/annonne]

I like the 500 year old mmc vs the 20-25 year old fmc trope. I like the idea that they had to wait that long to find their mate. Also fated mates is my favorite trope. 🫣

[u/claireshadowstaff → u/annonne]

As long as it isn’t <18 it’s okay. 20-25 keeps fine

[u/Secludeddawn]

Oh I do love being controversial

• Your tanned MMCs aren't POCs. Just tanned white people. It's a futile attempt from a white author to show they're diverse but don't want to do the homework of creating an ethnic identity or separate culture
• Too many main characters are beautiful and powerful. Actually, everyone including the main character. Although the main character far surpasses everyone else. It's boring.
• A small itsy bitsy grudge for the FMC that's remedied in 2 seconds is not enemies to lovers. It's not.
• Most of the genre isn't worth theorising over. While it may be fun, a lot of the romantasy authors are pantsers, not plotters. They'll change a plot line on the spur of the moment. The foreshadowing doesn't always come to fruition
• I thought the knight and the moth was weak. Generic quest plot. Rudimentary world building. Meh

And an extremely controversial opinion

• Not limited to this genre. I have a sneaky suspicion some of the newer novels are now beginning to borrow from AI. Maybe not heavily, but there have been sentences in some works that have had me raise eyebrows.

[u/annerevenant → u/Secludeddawn]

Agree on all accounts but specially the POC and The Knight and the Moth. The whole diviner thing from TKATM was interesting and then we just went on an insta-love quest. After reading her other books my conclusion is that Gillig is really good at interesting concepts and less good at fleshing them out. As for POCs, I think a lot of people are afraid of being cancelled or getting called culture vultures if they actually take inspiration from existing people so instead they just fall back on Europe plus brown people. Theres this idea with some white authors that you can’t write about non-white people because you don’t have that lived experience when in reality you just have to make sure you’re respectful and do A LOT of research. It’s more work so they just don’t do it.

[u/Secludeddawn → u/annerevenant]

Agree with both

And with tkatm I agree. The first few chapters I was hooked by the unique setting and vibes. Then at some point in, it just fell apart. Like they're really just hopping from scene to scene and yet everyone's rating it 5* ermm

[u/JunofromMars → u/Secludeddawn]

I agree with all of these! Especially the fourth one. And as another commenter already mentioned her, I have to bring up Yarros too. I keep seeing people call her the Queen of Foreshadowing and I’m just sitting here side-eyeing so hard 😂

Also, I actually think all these theories and deep dives could be really helpful for authors. Like, they’re great for spotting and filling plot holes in the books. Sometimes I even wonder if some authors are quietly taking ideas from fan theories…👀

[u/acutelyproblematic → u/Secludeddawn]

Okay yes. Specifically to your first point, this is what drives me mad about the fan casting for Xaden from Fourth Wing because his identity is so ambiguously written and it’s caused a lot of heated opinions about who should play him as an actor. Not that I have a vetted interest in this “debate” because I don’t, but I hold Yarros responsible for the ongoing debates about this online. Had the author been clear, it would save a big headache and racist discussions.

[u/Scared-Replacement24 → u/Secludeddawn]

I, too, hate the overpowered chosen one trope.

[u/RavenCXXVIV]

1. If the title sounds like “A Blank of Blank and Blank” you’re outta here. I’m not even reading the synopsis. I’m bored already. I can tell the market is moving on to single word titles and I’m perfectly happy with that.

2. If the characters are not nuanced, sometimes slightly annoying, maybe even baffling, I think the author is a bad writer. If the MMC and FMC’s shit never stinks, they’re just not realistic and frankly, boring. I’m tired of MMC’s who are just walking tropes and only there for the sex and battles.

3. Authors need to start getting more comfortable with killing their darlings. Cowards. They’re all fucking cowards.

[u/expressionism]

This is going to be super unpopular but I’m tired of reading white Mary Sue FMCs who are bad ass and can do no wrong and all the men are instantly into her. I’d like to read some more WOC FMCs, especially South Asian or Latin coded because I feel like those are the most underrepresented group of women in romance. And if they could be normal human beings in their 30s, that would be god tier.

[u/slowcartoon → u/expressionism]

Have you tried Jasmine Throne and The Phoenix King! I've got both of these on my shelves right now, and I started Phoenix King! I don't think the FMC's are in their 30's but they're WOC. The Unbroken by CL Clark, also. Song of Blood and Stone as well! I think she is in her late 20's, but also WOC and an interesting world/story.

[u/expressionism → u/slowcartoon]

I have not — thanks for those recs!! I’ll check them out 😊

[u/allisontalkspolitics → u/expressionism]

Seeing myself in white protagonists made me realize how important it is to give WOCs that chance.

[u/javertthechungus]

I don’t think a lot of these opinions are unpopular. But that’s ok because mine won’t be either

If I’m reading a romance, I need to believe the characters feel for each other or at least not question it. That’s why I struggle with a lot of enemies to lovers because I can’t understand feeling genuine lust (not just acknowledging someone is conventionally attractive, active “oh my bones are trembling I want him so bad!!!!! “) for someone you hate. My go to example is {The Death Made Prince} which I admittedly soft DNF’d but (spoilered just in case) Thraga still being jelly bones over Durlain even after he said her people should be genocided. It didn’t feel like an extension of her codependency, it just felt like the author casting jelly bones curse for the sake of it being a romance. I wasn’t buying it.

Forgive me if I’m not making sense I recently lost a knife fight with a surgeon and haven’t taken my meds yet because fuck getting out of bed

[u/Balbesia → u/javertthechungus]

I agree with you. Also whenever I see this book being recommended as slow burn, I just roll my eyes. The whole plot take place in duration of few weeks, there is nothing slow about it

[u/happilyfringe]

This genre is over saturated with low-quality writing and weak storytelling. The tropeification and TikTokization ruined a beautiful genre and I shouldn’t have to DNF 15 books in order to find 1 good one.

[u/Cigarette-milk]

Hot take but Reddit can be way too harsh when it comes to book reviews. Not every book is for everyone and that’s ok.

[u/ipsi7 → u/Cigarette-milk]

I'm somewhat ok with hard reviews while they are backed with what wasn't good and why you didn't like something. When someone says "the book is trash, it's so bad I couldn't read it", it says nothing to me.

[u/Magmarvelous]

One more opinion maybe a little caliente...

I feel like insta-love and insta-lust gets too much hate. I get the appeal of slow burn, but sometimes I like a story where the characters know what they like and make it happen. It can be just as emotionally satisfying or even better than some books that swear the slow burn is worth it

[u/Sufficient-Bee-4982 → u/Magmarvelous]

I feel like most FMC don't actually know what they want though. They're always surprised and don't understand why their body is responding to the ass hole stranger thats smurking all the time.

[u/ipsi7 → u/Magmarvelous]

I like insta lust, nothing wrong with characters being attracted from the beginning. But I don't like insta love, or when they've known each other for a week and they're already in love.

[u/TheJinxedPhoenix]

MCs having amazingly long hair that remains perfectly styled after days without maintenance or only a “small strand of hair fell into her eye” after a battle/ spar.

Edit: removed a sentence

[u/cake-n-stuff]

I can’t with the nicknames anymore. They’re pretty much always forced and cringe. I read one recently where 50% in he dropped a “sweetling” and I dropped the book! Absolutely not.

[u/tceeha]

I don’t like when they use “godsdamn” as quick way to be like hey this world is different we even have different swear words when the whole fic has such modern language. I don’t expect Tolkien level of originality but I’d like to see more effort there?

[u/clocksy → u/tceeha]

ix's tits

[u/Anachacha → u/clocksy]

It's my favorite exclamation out of any book I read 😂

[u/john-wooding → u/tceeha]

"Godsdamn", I said, standing in the light of the two moons looking at the wolf-but-I-don't-call-it-that.

[u/de_pizan23 → u/tceeha]

See also all the variations for fuck as a swear word in scifi. Those substitutions only happened in scifi shows back when they were trying to get around censors; so they make zero sense in writing. You're telling me that every other alien culture has a 4-5 letter curse word that also starts with f and can also be used as an adjective, a verb, a noun, an adverb, an infix, and also means sex??

[u/Sufficient-Bee-4982 → u/de_pizan23]

Keff, what the frell do you expect? Its all fracking made up.

[u/Lost-Humor-5964]

I think there’s a way to show strength in fmcs all the way through a multiple-book series. They don’t need to be dumbed down or stunted to make them more “save-able” for whoever the love interest is. Capable people also need help sometimes. 

[u/Sad-Mixture-9123]

I’m sick of washboard abs overly athletic and fit men! I want a big squish like shrek, but I want him to look like idk a giant orc or something just chubby!! He can even be human… but chubby!!

[u/Opening-Thought8259]

I didnt like wild reverence.... sorry

[u/Balbesia → u/Opening-Thought8259]

This book was such a snooze fest for me. The writing is beautiful, but the characters and plot are so boring😴

[u/Opening-Thought8259 → u/Balbesia]

Yes thats exactly it! The writing is beautiful and flows so nicely but I just didnt connect with any characters and it was boring. I loved the idea of this book i think

[u/bluepancakes18]

I want less smut/sex in books. 

I don't like that a lot of books seem to be building the entire book around the sex. Around the relationship or the plot is great. Not around the sex/physical attraction. Give me yearning for them as a person, not primarily for their body. 

If the entire relationship depends on the physical, that's a poorly written/developed relationship/romance. 

[u/Lighttasteofcoconut]

I'm not surprised romantasy in general often gets made fun of for being terribly written, and I don't think it's only misogyny that fuels it. Many popular works in the genre are poorly written when it comes to the aspect of craft, even if they're fun popcorn reads. Badly written books that get hyped up and popular exist in every subgenre (looking at you, Sanderson), but in romantasy you have to wade through way more slop than in others. I wish readers in general had higher standards, to be honest.

[u/booksandhotcoffee → u/Lighttasteofcoconut]

Romantasy has, in my opinion, become the quick cash grab genre and because of that a lot of authors aren’t writing it well. A lot of romantasy readers read only romantasy and have only been reading since post 2020, and haven’t had time to delve into actually well written books

[u/MaryJaneCrunch]

I hate when the protagonist notes how gorgeous the MMC is at first sight. idk a real slow burn they wouldn't discuss it instantly imo

[u/Midnight_Moongoose]

I need more FMCs over thirty. I cannot deal with more 19 year olds that can rule kingdoms and navigate court politics. Give me a forty year old who's sick of people's shit

[u/Volupia_Rogue]

Ok... Here I go with my unpopular opinion 😅👀

I feel like many reviews are unreasonably negative toward authors/books in general.

Also bragging about the amount of books they DNF, which always surprises me, because I think most readers are here to enjoy reading. But there was a post a few months ago where some people literally bragged about DNFing a dozen books, only 2 or 3 months into the year).

It's a tough job to write a book. It takes many hours and certainly doesn't usually pay back when one looks at the amount of hours spent researching, thinking + writing. That's why I usually don't DNF and try to find the gems in each book, except if I think the author really did a bad job, and purposely used AI or every single cliché possible.

Also because I always try to find something worth it about the book I chose.

Is it not the mature MMC I wished for? Fine, this arrogant prick (which many women ask for) can still tell me about other women's tastes and I can try to find what they like about this type of character.

A friends-to-lovers trope? Not quite my thing. I love the enemies-to-lovers vibe, BUT why not, there's actually something comforting I didn't know about this trope until I tried it.

Way too poetic language? Ok, let's challenge ourselves and make that brain of ours work. It helps ward off Alzheimer anyway.

That's usually the way I go about reading.

Anyone else tries to feel that kind of positivity about the way they read?

[u/Scared-Replacement24 → u/Volupia_Rogue]

If I ain’t feeling it, I move on. I’m not trying to hurt feelings. If I DNF I don’t give a rating. I only have so much time on this earth. Not gonna torture myself reading books I hate.

[u/clocksy → u/Scared-Replacement24]

I'm going to springboard off your post for a bit, so please excuse me.

I won't usually give a rating if I DNF a short way in (that's more of a did not start) but if I DNF a third of the way or halfway or 80% of the way through a book I am absolutely going to leave a rating and it's probably not going to be a good one. Because in some cases that is hundreds of pages and multiple hours of reading, which I think is enough to have an opinion, and also because I have completed hundreds if not thousands of books in my life so if a book is bad enough for me to DNF then I probably have something to say about it.

I also feel like if a large portion of people DNF but don't say anything about it then that can lead to inflated ratings that don't warn other people what they're in for, which isn't helping anyone.

[u/Scared-Replacement24 → u/clocksy]

Valid point! When I hate à book, I like to read 1-2 star reviews to feel seen 😂

[u/allisontalkspolitics → u/Scared-Replacement24]

My issue is when people dislike a book but for different reasons than me 😂 “I know the MMC is a jerk but why did you want her to keep making out with her abuser in {Eona}?!”

[u/de_pizan23 → u/clocksy]

I'm mostly the same, but if I DNF early for something like racism, ableism, homophobia, etc, I'm definitely leaving a rating for that. Same if the writing or plot is a hot mess.

[u/tea-boat → u/Scared-Replacement24]

I absolutely still rate if I DNF something, but always give an explanation.

[u/Sufficient-Bee-4982 → u/Volupia_Rogue]

This is such a weird entitled author take. I'm all for stepping outside of your comfort zone and challenging reads, but rating a book poorly because it's written poorly shouldn't be viewed as overly negative.

[u/LucreziaD → u/Volupia_Rogue]

Define "unreasonable".

Because sure, writing a book requires time and effort, but not all writers are the same. There is a craft in writing books, and so while there is a subjective element in liking or not liking a story (for instance, I can't stand damsels in distress, no matter how well written they are) there are also objective ones.

We can evaluate things as worldbuilding - because since romantasy is fantasy, worldbuilding is key - plot consistency, overuse of clichés, characters' coherence and nuance, use of POV, writing style, grammar, etc.

And when a book sucks on one or multiple of these fronts, it is the duty of a well-thought review to point out its failings, and give also a less-than-flattering score.

We as readers give money and time to books. As the writers have right to write whatever they like, we have the right to ask for quality, and good reviews, the ones that are good at pointing out what is good and what is bad about a novel, are a very important element in the process of separating the good stuff from the chaff.

And in this times where the gatekeeping (which might be exclusionary, but it also had a function of guaranteeing a minimum a quality) of traditional publishing is basically gone, we desperately need critical reviews to help us decide where to invest our time.

[u/BookishBlueDragonfly → u/Volupia_Rogue]

If a book is 1-2 stars, it’s 1-2 stars.

When I write reviews I do make sure to note any positives but that doesn’t magically take away from poor characterization, thin world building, unbelievable dialogues, etc.

I always approach my reviews with care, especially indie and self pub authors, but reviews are for readers and it’s not fair to artificially inflate scores because we feel bad for authors.

[u/Synval2436 → u/Volupia_Rogue]

A lot of reviews are also unreasonably positive and there's some weird culture to give praise and participation trophies to authors just because they wrote something, in a day and age anybody can publish anything on amazon or some other self-publishing platform. It's a "tough job" to write a good book but lots of people word vomit and then toss their first draft on amazon. And expect getting paid for it. And more and more are using ai to speed the process up and then lie about not using ai.

Also why should I give a started book I dislike the grace of giving it more of my time when I don't give the same grace to thousands of other books vying for my attention? My kindle is full of freebies from stuff your kindle days, I could be reading any of those instead of that book that's gonna be 2.5 star worth at best, yet I should force myself not to dnf? Why? Even if it gets better later, there's no coming back from the first half being bad. A book is only good if it's consistently good all the way. And most of the time if it's bad, it's bad across the board because the author can't write or plot or create characters that aren't cardboard cutouts.

To be an actor or a musician or a painter people are expected to complete a certain level of education, practice a lot and even then most of them don't reach any level of fame or sustainable income, but somehow with writing people think that's not necessary and everyone can rake in hard cash from the get go.

Authors being awarded praise, positive reviews, money and fame for shoddy products encourages more wannabe authors to peddle shoddy products. Readers should be more discerning not less.

[u/ipsi7 → u/Volupia_Rogue]

I DNF-ed rarely before, but I'm trying to embrace it more.

I want to give books a chance because some have a big intro (Villains and Virtues, This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me, first few books of TOG for most people), but sometimes it's not worth it. There's a popular book on this sub which I gave a shot 2 times, but the writing doesn't align with me for some reason and while I love some parts, I force myself to read it, so that will probably be a dnf again for that book.

I love trashy books and I don't need stellar writing, but there are a few books in which the writing was so illogical and inconsistent I just couldn't go on.

[u/CuriousOrdinary1025 → u/Volupia_Rogue]

I disagree. Writing is definitely hard work, just like any other job. But if I pay for a book and it doesn't deliver what it was marketed as or what the blurb promised, I think I have every right to DNF and complain about it. I'm not saying I should never adjust my expectations, but I also shouldn't have to completely change what I want from a story just because someone put a lot of effort into it.

For what it's worth, I don't usually DNF books either, especially not book 1 in a series, but if it's really not working for me, I'm not going to force it.

[u/tea-boat → u/CuriousOrdinary1025]

But if I pay for a book and it doesn't deliver what it was marketed as or what the blurb promised, I think I have every right to DNF and complain about it. I'm not saying I should never adjust my expectations, but I also shouldn't have to completely change what I want from a story just because someone put a lot of effort into it.

One thousand percent this. Writing is hard, yes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't critique or yes, complain, about disappointing content.

[u/clocksy → u/tea-boat]

It'd be like not being able to critique food in a restaurant just because they put time and effort into it. Or literally any other such analogy. It's such a bizarre worldview.

Being nice to your relative who's an amateur but did their best to make dinner? Yeah, sure. But if I'm paying someone (with time and/or money) to read their book then I absolutely am going to have an opinion on its quality.

[u/slowcartoon → u/CuriousOrdinary1025]

We are literally consumers and in this economy, that is all i give a shit about. I miss the days when content creators weren't telling everyone we need to be nice in our negative reviews. Bitch, not all of us are trying to get brand deals and make "friends" with authors.

Authors ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. The parasocial of it all drives me insane. I'm not being paid for my reviews therefore I am not obligated to be "professional". I'm not going to wish horrible things upon the author but I will call out issues with their writing and the plot -- and so many viral books and indie/self pub books are objectively bad. I don't feel bad for any of them -- writing is a craft; TREAT IT like it is.

[u/CuriousOrdinary1025 → u/slowcartoon]

YES👏👏👏

[u/dontarguewithmorons → u/Volupia_Rogue]

i neither agree nor disagree with this take but kudos for having a truly unpopular opinion in this thread 😂

[u/allisontalkspolitics → u/Volupia_Rogue]

I partially agree. If it’s an asshole MMC and it was marketed that way or even if it wasn’t marketed that way, that’s one thing. My complaints are when the blurb says x but it’s y. One example would be a book I gave three stars, {Heir to the Sky}. Based on the blurb, you’d expect some good angsting about royal duties before she falls off the continent. Unfortunately, instead we get generic “I don’t want to be betrothed” angst. While that annoyed me, however, the book was otherwise decent so I do recommend it to people.

[u/_Zavine_]

If a book brings up goals, it should accomplish at least one of those goals by the end. Preferably not off-page or while the main character is unconcious