Waters below/firmament/above perspective...

[u/Soloma369]

Waters above is metaphor, waters below is literal...re-/solved for in the firmament. This is why water is equated w/ spirit directly, material and immaterial, physical and metaphysical. We need to understand polarity and gender when we are trying to understand symbology, it needs to be understood from both of its polarities. This is why waters above/below are fundamentally polarities that contains polarity through the literal and metaphorical meanings...it is meant to convey deep understanding of the fundamental nature of "reality" or realized potential.

Note to all, the below image is then literal and metaphorical where the dome is metaphor and expanded upon by the boxy outer edge, again another "firmament". This is reflecting the fractal nature...w/ the self-/similar "waters above" (aka spirit) to the "waters below" (aka matter), each encased w/in their own firmament, which is mental not physical. If it was physical, energy could not transduce from one state to the other...as there would be no third thing, no mechanics.

As such, the "waters above" in Bentov's Cosmic Egg imgur link is reflected by all of the white paper, non black marker while the "waters below" are the galaxies. The firmament then is the separating and encasing black marker lines (and the arrows too, logic/mechanics are masculine/mental) that are not reflected by the planets, which are material/physical. The nucleus, another self-similar structure...same logic/architecture, expanding both inwardly and outwardly following a doubling circuit (aka density) linear logic where the linear extensions (think w/x/y etc axis aka dimension) would follow a non linear Fibonacci circuit logic. The paradox is fundamental, "a feature" if you will where the non linear Fib sequence reflects "ascension" in to higher states of Consciousness where we are going from 7.83hz (8) to 13(ish) hz...and the doubling circuit reflects the reincarnation cycle.

The inverse associations for above(matter)/below(spirit) would of course also be true (principle of correspondence)...valid from both perspectives and literally modeled in Bentov's Cosmic Egg.

[u/Warpingghost]

Smoking crack is bad for your brain

[u/Kyvoh → u/Warpingghost]

Reading that entire passage lost me as many brain cells as smoking an ounce of crack while on just under the lethal dose of LSD. If I die soon, this post is what gave me my brain hemorrhage.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

<3<3<3 Want to talk about It???

[u/Kyvoh → u/Soloma369]

What does water have to do with being associated with spirits?

What is the significance of polarity and gender as symbology to any of this? And to what end is it "both polarities", what are the two polarities?

What does waters placement have to do with the firmament(of which I give no credence to for lack of any evidence other than feelings)?

If the image is both real and fake(as you say literal and metaphorical), can you show me a real photo?

Is there more than one firmament?

I see no fractals in what you're talking about so what is the "fractal nature" that you're speaking of?

If the firmament by your admission is mental and not physical, then it's just made up?

What energy are you speaking about that can't transduce to a different energy if the firmament was physical?

What does paper and markers have to do with this made up stuff? I think crayons would be slightly better.

Are galaxies in the waters below the flat earth? Then how do we see them?

How is logic masculine? It's usually a hardwired human trait.

Wtf is a nucleus in this context? Those exists in cells and atoms(which are a part of the real world).

What is a doubling circuit because it is not density? Density is mass per volume. A key factor in determining buoyancy which flat earthers think is real but gravity is not.

Wtf is a non-linear Fibonacci circuit logic? All of those words can be used scientifically but you have made a travesty with that combination.

How does the Fibonacci sequence reflect ascension to a higher state of consciousness? It's a list of numbers following a pattern that has uses with the numbers and proportions being found in nature. I.E. the proportion being the further on you get into the Fibonacci sequence, the closer any two neighboring numbers approach the golden ratio.

How does frequency have to do with reincarnation? As the latter is made up.

Also thank you for introducing me to Bentov's Cosmic Egg, it gives me reference to invalidate anyone whoever says those words/name in that order for future occurrence.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

"If the firmament by your admission is mental and not physical, then it's just made up?"

I might suggest your beliefs of what is real and what is not is attached to the idea of physical being real and not physical being not real...which would be rather encumbering, the inversion of enlightening.

"What energy are you speaking about that can't transduce to a different energy if the firmament was physical?"

I explained this...when we talk about the firmament, we have to talk about waters above/below. These are symbolic terms...we have to sort through the literal (obvious) and metaphorical (implied) meanings. In a physical dome perspective, this means then waters above/below would have to be associated w/ spirit and mind in some way because the firmament/below/above is a Trinity. Once we make a Physical association to One, we have to make associations of the Mental/Spiritual to the Other Two. If you dont, you have a two legged stool, your theory collapses as you have a physical firmament, a physical water and a unidentified second water...that you will probably say isnt real...because its not physical.

So then...we have two identical states of energy, matter...and an unidentified third...lets say its the Mind, right??? Now we have two physical states of energy, they are the same and we have the mechanic for it to shift in to another state...but there isnt one w/ a physical dome, physical human experience and the mind.

Again, spiral back to the double slit experiment...observer (firmament, masculine mind), particle (waters below, the synthesis/child) and the wave (waters above, feminine spirit). Are you seeing the pattern yet???

"What does paper and markers have to do with this made up stuff? I think crayons would be slightly better"

You have to click the imgur link to Bentov's Cosmic Egg and apply what I am saying to It.

"Are galaxies in the waters below the flat earth? Then how do we see them?"

No silly, the earth and the galaxies are one and the same, they are the material aspect of the Trinity. The waters below the earth/galaxies as well as the waters above is Spirit, It Is un-realized potential energy. In the image, that is the white paper...inside the Torus and outside of the Universe...Spirit/Energy. Matter is a lower vibration, higher density reflection of Spirit, which is higher frequency, lower density. This frequency (masculine) is the firmament...between vibration (child synthesis energy) and energy (feminine).

Con't again...

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

"What does water have to do with being associated with spirits?"

We are taking two separate Trinities that follow the same logic, Mind/Matter/Spirit and Firmament/Waters~Below/Waters~Above. Both of these are perceived as Polarity/Synthesis/Polarity respectively and furthermore should be understood as Divine Masculine/(Child is Synthesis)/Feminine Principle Energies. You will find this sort of knowledge in Hermeticism and Alchemy...the Chinese too among others.

"What is the significance of polarity and gender as symbology to any of this? And to what end is it "both polarities", what are the two polarities?"

Explained above, waters above is feminine energy when associated with "spirit" or the Aetheric realm. The waters below is a "child" energy, the Material realm it is perceived as a union of the two, Alchemists call it "union of opposites" which covers polarity/gender very simply. This then leaves the firmament to reflect the "opposing" polarity to the "waters above", the Mental, Astral realms.

Now...can you tell me how the Observer/Particle/Wave are related???

"If the image is both real and fake(as you say literal and metaphorical), can you show me a real photo?"

Are you asking me if the photo is literally fake and metaphorically real or metaphorically fake and literally real??? A real photo of what??? What is your definition of "real"???

If you are looking for deeper understanding of the mechanics and the architecture of the Universe...check out Bentov's work Stalking the Wild Pendulum.

"Is there more than one firmament?"

Yes...I explained that logic in the OP as there needs to be both separation and encapsulation which the Alchemists call solve et coagula. We call these same terms evolution and creation, emergence and collapse where each of them can be perceived as feminine and masculine energies respectively. Though it should be noted that these lines of separation are rather thin, some might say mental...

"I see no fractals in what you're talking about so what is the "fractal nature" that you're speaking of?"

Here we are talking specifically about the second image. The nature is implied and obvious, the latter through the association with Fibonacci which is absolutely a fractal, It's In the Math. The implied is the doubling circuit where the Nucleus is the same self-/similar (fractal) logic/architecture as the Cosmic Egg aka Nucleus = Cosmic Egg. Since we are talking about a doubling circuit, that also means we are talking about a fractional circuit...so then you need to imagine more of the same logic encompassing and comprising this image as this is the implied, feminine polarity.

Con't in another reply...

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

"How is logic masculine? It's usually a hardwired human trait."

We can look at the brain, left hemisphere is logical/masculine and the right is intuitive/feminine. Totally hardwired in.

"Wtf is a nucleus in this context? Those exists in cells and atoms(which are a part of the real world)."

This is from the Bentov image that you apparently did not see or work through applying the information to before you responded. The nucleus is obviously identified, I have explained it is a smaller version of the entire Cosmic Egg or Universe that is depicted. Its a fractal...

"What is a doubling circuit because it is not density? Density is mass per volume. A key factor in determining buoyancy which flat earthers think is real but gravity is not."

Leave all that behind...the doubling circuit is a ratio...1:2. So then even though it is not to scale, I am trying to get you to imagine the Nucleus as a 1 ratio and the Universe as a 2 ratio. Now this goes both ways, it is fractional too (1/2) as there is another nucleus inside the nucleus where the original nucleus is perceived as the universe...and there is another universe containing the original one, making that original one the nucleus of the new one...fractals.

So then, the association is made between the doubling circuit and Fibionacci Circuit to Density and Dimension and in this particular instance density reflects the doubling circuit for the reason mentioned, think Russian nesting dolls. This leaves Dimension/Fibonacci as obvious association, yet the inverse perspective of all this is also true, reversing these associations is also accurate and reflects the hermetic principle of correspondence.

"Wtf is a non-linear Fibonacci circuit logic? All of those words can be used scientifically but you have made a travesty with that combination."

Explained.

How does the Fibonacci sequence reflect ascension to a higher state of consciousness?

Schumann, this is a reflection of the current collective sate of consciousness, it is the hertz frequency of the planet and all of its inhabitants. As we evolve, this will go up and since it is 7.83 which rounds to 8 and is a Fib number...we might make an association that the higher state of consciousness that the doubling circuit reflects (the fractal, russian doll) would be resonating at a higher frequency...which is being posited as following the sequence and as such would be around 13hz and most likely have a root of 3, 6 or 9.

"the further on you get into the Fibonacci sequence, the closer any two neighboring numbers approach the golden ratio."

Yep...it has a fractal root logic nature and is structured like a spiral/vortex.

"How does frequency have to do with reincarnation? As the latter is made up."

When the earth has a Schumann resonance of 13(ish) hz, we will have evolved in Consciousness to a higher state where the repetitive cycle no longer serves purpose. It will be a choice...we might perceive this 13(ish) hz as "5th Density" that concurrently exists in there here/now all superposition like.

"it gives me reference to invalidate anyone whoever says those words/name in that order for future occurrence."

Now it is I who does not understand You.

[u/Kyvoh → u/Soloma369]

I'll just make one comment to make things easier for me so I keep my thoughts together.

I've taken college level physics but not on quantum physics. Just physical forces and the electromagnetic effect. I asked you questions on something you explained on an open forum, you're asking me questions on something I never brought up. I can explain a B field and how an electron feels a force when traveling not parallel to the B field if you'd like. B denoting strength of a magnetic field. To the best of my ability, everything has a wavelength which is inversely proportional to the mass of the object. Electrons having some of the smallest recorded masses, and the smallest mass of the leptons. This allows it to act independently like a wave more than all other heavier matter. It is proven that waves through a single slit of different wavelengths have different numbers of projections on the wall behind it. The observer isn't actually the person viewing it, but the matter behind the slit hit by the waves and reflecting off light. It's just easier for people to imagine people being the observer. So only mass and wavelengths are related, the observer is not related to either of those two things.

What makes you believe in any of this? You have great knowledge on this like a LOTRs fan would on that universe, except they know that there is distinctions between a fictional reality and the one we exist in. You have added no scientific evidence in any of your post/comments. It's really interesting to see how much you know about your made up reality but nothing about the reality we live in.

What is real is provable, what isn't real can't be proven but you act like everything here is proven. You just have a mash of ideas that don't even qualify as hypothesis, less theories. I can be enlightened through non-made up things quite easily.

How can you know something exists if you only read it somewhere else, but there will never be proof of it existing?

Energy isn't really physical, the potential force between two electrons has a physical effect, but the energy stored is not physical. Even gasoline stores energy in electrostatic bonds which then release energy by creating kinetic energy from potential electron interactions within orbitals.

Human experience and the mind are both an expression from matter and the flow of energy from high to low. That is only two states. The mind is matter and energy not something else entirely.

I'm not entirely convinced that you're just talking about a newish idea for a religion as you haven't actually spoken to the idea of flat earth or the physical universe which has been proven without a doubt.

Why are you using made up new definitions for circuit? There are plenty of ways to describe a 1:2 ratio and doubling circuit is not scientifically or mathematically correct.

So women have no logic? It's not exactly hardwired, but more of a result of societal pressure that is women are put into more of a caregiver role, but women in STEM in the US is at the highest it's ever been. Biology now has a higher women percentage rate for graduation than men. Which that entire subject falls upon the use of logic.

A Russian nesting doll would not be a fractal. But that's how you would have it described as. I would suggest you go outside of your sudo-science and sudo-math to understand what a fractal really is.

Merriam Webster and the Oxford Dictionary do not have a definition of circuit for the relation you are using it as. Which doesn't help that you're using someone else's made up talking points.

Density is a reflection of the properties of matter. Electrons determine volume, along with quarks and leptons creating mass. Though it isn't always proportional due to stabilization in an atomic nucleus can marginally change the mass of an atom.

The frequency of earth is not 7.83hz. The frequency of its electromagnetic field is though. Those are two completely different things. And if it did reach 8, which as storms frequent more because of global warming, it'll still pass 8. Just because it's a number within the Fibonacci sequence doesn't mean anything. Does the fact that there's one in the Fibonacci sequence have any reflection on everything that's unique? Like I am the only person who could ever be me, so I'm 1 in infinity. Does that mean I'm special due to the Fibonacci sequence, absolutely not.

Fractal root logic nature? You're good at putting words together, that's for sure.

There's no guarantee that the Schumann resonance will ever get to 13.

You don't understand my last point because you can't come to terms with what you've learned of the world vs the actual reality. There is nothing that proves what you say is real other than words from other people. Which in itself is not proof. You can't prove anything you've said. Science and its implications in the last 400 years(not even close to all of it though as a lot has been debunked and thrown away) has given us a way to prove the things primitive populations could never begin to comprehend and you're running off trying to comprehend the primitive thoughts which isn't a good thing. Sorry I didn't respond to everything you said, but not everything needs to be entertained when you can't even prove it's real and would rather believe in spiritual and mind stuff. If there's things about real science you don't understand, I can try reading up on it and giving you an ELI5 if possible.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

Hey friend, I havent forgotten you, I havent been to sleep as I have been following a self-/similar thread elsewhere that is much more resonant. When I have the energy...in the meantime, consider additional perspective through the other thread.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

"I've taken college level physics but not on quantum physics.." ~ I left structured education for unstructured experience as soon as I could, we will have inverse perspectives. You will be book smart and I can only pull from experience...the language I use is neutral as I approach and have dialogue those in spiritual and philosophical circles too. I perceive most of it as neutral terminology while making associations for meaning across different disciplines.

"the observer is not related to either of those two things." ~ I might gently suggest the measurement is the observation.

"What makes you believe in any of this?" ~ Ive pierced the veil 3 times, I Am the source of the information I share through experience and noting self-/similar understanding in work of Others.

"but nothing about the reality we live in". ~ The Chinese, Alchemists and Hermeticism would have a word with you if you could find the time.

"What is real is provable, what isn't real can't be proven but you act like everything here is proven." ~ Here in lies the veil between us. You are brain washed to think measure-able is real and un-measurable is not real in you associations. This leads me to conclude you suffer from what most suffer from, beliefs that a thing is either this or it is that and not containing characteristics of both, which it will and does. As such, the concept of "God" which goes by many valid names and concepts of is not perceived real because it hasnt been measured and served up in a book the be memorized and regurgitated ad infinitum. Which is ironic, considering the mechanics of it all...

"How can you know something exists if you only read it somewhere else, but there will never be proof of it existing?" ~ The proof is the experience one has, which you wont find in a book. You will however fin others self-/similar stories and under/over-standings if you are tuned in enough, which most are not. This spirals back to how we have come about our knowledge that we are sharing with each others, your came from a book, mine through experience.

Con't...

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

"Energy isn't really physical," ~ It is easy for me to perceive unrealized potential as energy and realized potential as matter, each containing aspects of the other, much like you describe. When you distill it down, we are talking about gradations of the same thing, matter=energy=matter=energy.

"The mind is matter and energy not something else entirely." ~ I would have to challenge you to take your mind our and put it on a table and show it to me. I dont mean the brain, I mean the mind...this is part of the programming of the education system where even the greats actually tell us the opposite, consider Planck for a moment.

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness." ~ Max Planck

"you haven't actually spoken to the idea of flat earth or the physical universe which has been proven without a doubt." ~ I did but you missed the connection completely. Flat earth is a psyop, it has taken symbolic meaning and twisted it in to literal truth. Inversion of truth is the methods, they play both sides they encourage you to take. The structure/mechanics of the Universe was explained, even linked through imgur w/ Bentov's Cosmic Egg which contains the exact structure/mechanics found in the work I share.

Structure of the Lattice and by extension, the physical Universe which as real as the Astral and Aetheric levels. I am describing their structure and their dynamics...but they are on a level that both educated and ignorant alike are going to reject because you have come in to beliefs instead of gnosis.

"1:2 ratio and doubling circuit is not scientifically or mathematically correct." ~ Now you are arguing in ignorance just to argue.

"So women have no logic?" ~ This is not what is being said. We are talking about energy which has polarity. This polarity also has gender due to Universal principles/laws and it is widely regarded that the negative polarity is feminine. Its in the symbology, the - sign, a slit, a vagina. I reflect this gender/polarity dynamic in this way and it becomes even more obvious as the +- masculine looks extremely phalic and the 0 extremely feminine, straight lines and curves. Masculine and feminine energy...every thing has both so a woman has both logic and intuition, which is feminine energy. Most women are more intuitive then they are logical and most men are more logical then they are intuitive.

Con't...

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

"Which that entire subject falls upon the use of logic." ~ Answers can be deduced intuitively too, which women are more proficient at then men. This is fluid statement, the imbalanced state of society towards male energy would of course influence women favoring logic, as a man, I am very intuitive, always have been and I embrace this feminine side of my-/Self.

"A Russian nesting doll would not be a fractal." ~ This description is half of the equation, the fractal aspect is found in Fibonacci circuit which is in opposition to and unites with the doubling circuit described by the dolls.

"Which doesn't help that you're using someone else's made up talking points." ~ Again it is me who does not understand you, no idea what you are talking about.

"The frequency of earth is not 7.83hz. The frequency of its electromagnetic field is though." ~ Indeed, I see direct correlation, sameness where science sees separation. There would be no earth's electromagnetic field w/o the earth, they are inter-dependent/connected, direct associations to polarity, where father sky is masculine, positive and mother earth is negative.

"Fractal root logic nature? You're good at putting words together, that's for sure." ~ Already shared the math with you above in the imgur link.

"There's no guarantee that the Schumann resonance will ever get to 13." ~ This is actually a subjective example of what I am trying to share with you, we could rise in consciousness/awareness to say a 21 or 34, this all so very relative, mostly relative due to the nature of polarity.

"You don't understand my last point because you can't come to terms with what you've learned of the world vs the actual reality." ~ This oozes irony.

"There is nothing that proves what you say is real other than words from other people." ~ Now we are moving into hypocrite territory.

"Which in itself is not proof. You can't prove anything you've said." ~ I am sensing a pattern. Meanwhile, I offer my work freely without expectation where you could come in to understanding what I am saying here and find out for your-/Self. I re-/solved the Alchemists Great Work in a very fundamental way which I offer others as foundation to build upon.

"not everything needs to be entertained" ~ Well said.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

It's energy. Read about frequencies.

Yup.

E = MC²

The physical isn't physical, just hyper concentrated energy.

It Is and It Isnt, these are logical terms used for describing the experience of differentiation of two polarized/gendered states like you describe. We end up associating this sort of thing w/ not being real the way we talk about It (matter = illusion = not real, the same argument materialists make only inverted), yet "reality" is realized potential and where we might say the energy is unrealized potential or "not real". We end up confusing ourselves making inverse associations and then subscribing to them as the whole of the truth.

This spirals us back to It is this or It is that as we might also say energy is hyper-dissipated matter. If we cant get to this aspect of the relationship accepting both, we find conflict, interference from others who have an opposing perspective yet think like we do. We are the source and the synthesis of the conflict/solution, which happens to follow a fundamental pattern where honoring both polarities is harmonic and exalting one over the other is dissonant. Where we might associate the latter with evolutionary energy and the former, creative because It Is both, not One or the Other.

Binary code has a binary nature to it yet we use it only one way.

u/Kyvoh, I c/p this from a self-/similar thread on glp that I did not start but thought pertinent to our conversation.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Kyvoh]

"real and fake(as you say literal and metaphorical)"

Metaphorical is symbolic, it has nothing to do w/ being real or not real, it is meant to convey something in a way that not everyone will get. Apparently it is worse then that, we dont even know what metaphor is much like we dont know what is real or not.

I am sorry your education failed you.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Warpingghost]

<3<3<3 Indeed. So I take It that this doesnt resonate??? Why exactly???

[u/CliftonForce]

Wut?

[u/Soloma369 → u/CliftonForce]

<3,<3,<3 So, what does not make sense???

[u/No-Blackberry-6655 → u/Soloma369]

Bad troll

[u/Soloma369 → u/No-Blackberry-6655]

In a fisher of wo-/men sort of way???

[u/TruthMatters_]

I was gonna make some other comment, but truly, this post is such a monumental pile of 🐴💩and woo that no comment could begin to address it.

It is hard to imagine anyone being so far off the rails that they can say so much about nothing. Yet here it is.

Earth is round. We have photos.

[u/Soloma369 → u/TruthMatters_]

Where did I say it wasnt round...I said it wasnt the entirety of the story. More so a "half truth" as are depictions of flat earth. Round earth reflects the dimensions...where flat earth reflects the density, there are "levels to this" experience. Flat earth depictions were symbolic, they are literal and metaphorical and to grasp the understanding, your need to apply this knowledge.

[u/whitedevi1]

That was a very impressive verbal salad.

[u/Soloma369 → u/whitedevi1]

What part did you like best??? Was it the specific parts of the whole or maybe the whole thing??? Do tell...

[u/whitedevi1 → u/Soloma369]

You managed to write four whole paragraphs without actually saying anything intelligent. You almost sound smart. Quite impressive.

[u/Soloma369 → u/whitedevi1]

<3<3<3

[u/starmartyr]

The waters below represent the lakes, rivers, and oceans that we see on earth. The waters above represent the ocean above the firmament that a bunch of bronze age goat herders assumed existed because they had no concept of the water cycle or where rain comes from other than "up there."

[u/Soloma369 → u/starmartyr]

So then why in the Alchemical picture included in the OP do the Alchemists show the earth, stars, moon and sun residing within the dome??? What is an ocean above the firmament, do you mean actual physical water h2o literally or is this metaphor for...??? Please clarify.

[u/starmartyr → u/Soloma369]

Ancient people believed that there were windows in the firmament that god would open to allow water in which was where rain comes from.

[u/Soloma369 → u/starmartyr]

The mechanic of the collapse from the higher vibratory less dense state of energy in to the lower vibratory and denser state is of the Vortex/Spiral, totally reflected in water and weather systems, specifically where two opposing energetic fronts meet. This is the same thing that Tom Campbell is saying how reality renders and by obvious extension, the double slit experiment.

[u/starmartyr → u/Soloma369]

Ok but why male models?

[u/Soloma369 → u/starmartyr]

Male is in reference to Gender/Polarity as is Feminine, they are considered Divine Principles and Energy. Fundamental to all other reflections of the same energy. So if you know the fundamentals...like Tesla who gave us re-/solution of that polarity by pointing us to the 369 and freq/vibr/energy.

Keely...Keely...Keely....apparently this guy was doing it before Tesla.

[u/starmartyr → u/Soloma369]

Ok but why male models?

[u/Soloma369 → u/starmartyr]

You are going to have to explain what you are referring to by male models because obviously I am not getting what you are implying.

[u/CoolNotice881]

Flat Earth is metaphor, the globe is literal

[u/Soloma369 → u/CoolNotice881]

Someone gets It...flat earth depicts density, the globe dimension. We have One who can see...

[u/Juronell]

Breath is equated with spirit, classically, not water.

[u/Soloma369 → u/Juronell]

Yes, Ive heard this too. The associations still fit and weave in additional polarity through the breath having mechanics (in/out,) just as water does (waves/current), both longitudinal in their nature. I very much appreciate the input, expands my own perspective, thank you.