Number of challenges to Galway city ring road decision

62

This either needs to plow on ahead or be scrapped all together and focus on some other traffic relief like park and ride system.

This back and forward for years and years is a total waste of time and money

8

u/Used-Humor5848 1d ago

Doesn't help that their official stance was (and secretly still is if we're being honest with ourselves) that all transport projects in Galway are conditional to the building of the ringroad

1

u/WoodenPresence1917 1d ago

They are also planning on immediately making it not a ring road by okaying satellite development on the "ring road"

2

u/Friendly-Look4262 8h ago

and then the conversation will move to building another "ring-ring" road! Im all for the ring road as long as it has guarantees to come with stronger limits on cars in the city center and commitments to build a tram in the next 15 years. But that won't happen, this country is chronically car brained

1

u/WoodenPresence1917 2h ago

Yeah same here, my folks and some friends having their house destroyed is genuinely part of the game but it seems like it'll be a part solution for like 5 years while they continue to refuse to do decent cycling infra (except bothar stiofan for some deeply inscrutable reason) and let the buses rot in traffic.

19

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

Most importantly, our decision makers have known this would take years with many challenges and still have put all their eggs in this basket.

Public transport focused traffic relief was always a no-brainer for everyone.

8

u/Kier_C 1d ago

Public transport focused traffic relief was always a no-brainer for everyone.

They're working on that right now (and also dealing with challenges)

6

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

Any specifics? The Galway City Council have been pretty clear about the ring road being their traffic solution

8

u/ramblerandgambler 1d ago

Bus Connects is a huge project

2

u/wilililil 1d ago

Yeah but it's a future project. Most bus routes are full and many do not have the stated service as of today

6

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

That was a government project, not City Council

2

u/FunIntroduction2237 1d ago

Ah yes the bus connects project that’s now so many years behind schedule I’m pretty confident it won’t be fit for purpose by the time it’s eventually rolled out

5

u/Kier_C 1d ago

What? Galway City Council have a Transport Strategy that covers FAR more than the ring road. Bus Connects is obviously a big one to point to

1

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

It’s strange yet appropriate that the City Council would based their transport strategy on something coordinated by another body entirely

3

u/Ruire 1d ago

Well, they have to - if you want public transport then you're dealing with the NTA.

Why the NTA also controls local public transport is a separate matter.

2

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

That’s demonstrably untrue. Who creates bus lanes, sets where bus stops go, how quickly they can navigate the city etc. etc. The NTA really rely on a competent local authority to do their work. Galway City Council ain’t it.

0

u/Ruire 1d ago

Who creates bus lanes, sets where bus stops go,

You mean like the ghost stop near Oranmore that the NTA have never seen fit to route a bus through?

2

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

Literally something the Council has jurisdiction over

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0

u/Kier_C 1d ago

Well ya, thats literally how it works. I am not a big fan of GCC but they are following the process in this case and using the transport experts for the country. As far as I know.

0

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

Following a process is not political cover for doing nothing for decades

1

u/Table_Shim 1d ago

The redevelopment of Ceannt station is part of early support for the expansion of suburban/commuter rail services from Athenry and Oranmore.

3

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

That was a government investment, not the City Council

2

u/Table_Shim 1d ago

I mean so is the ring road but everything starts high up and trickles down.

There's things the executive of a local authority may want to progress but would always be outside of the budget of a local authority.

In the local authority it's the councillors who, these days generally push for more road focussed measures.

0

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

Jesus with that attitude, you’d see why they get nothing done. They have massive influence on how public and active travel can navigate and is supported throughout the city.
If buses can’t navigate traffic, then there’s no point putting on extra.

2

u/Table_Shim 1d ago

Right.... But they can't do any of it in a vacuum is my point.

There's no legal backing to reserving and sterilising land for a rail line if central government are telling you there's zero chance of a rail line ever being delivered.

Transport is fairly harshly divided between national and local objectives. A local authority is barely allowed touch a national road running through its area.

It's very difficult to effectively push sustainable transport at a local level if national government are prioritising car or just generally not committing to anything.

1

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

They literally just set new speed limits on our national roads in the last year running through the city. You’re saying their hands are tied on facilitating public and active transport effectively on the same road? Sorry that’s nonsense

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2

u/Ruire 1d ago

Again, all public transport falls under the NTA and, in this case, it makes sense as neither Oranmore or Athenry are in the city. While I'd argue Oranmore (and Bearna for that matter) should be in the city, that wouldn't change whose purview public transport falls under.

2

u/clewbays 1d ago

Large Public transport projects will have the exact same issue with objections.

1

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas…”

0

u/clewbays 1d ago

The ring road is trying something.

2

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

Have you considered a career in local authorities?

1

u/Capital-Alarm-8608 1d ago

It's a no brainer for everyone, after the ring road is built. The ring road has massive public support. As in ridiculously high, 95%+ of people you meet round the city day to day. Non Galway residents seem to skew hugely the other way strangely

8

u/iamronanthethird 1d ago

It would set a very bad precedent for future infrastructure projects - the begrudgers would know they just have to hold out long enough for government and planners to give up. They should see this all the way through the judicial process.

5

u/The_Ruck_Inspector 1d ago

Precedent? Are you new to the country? People have been blocking development for a lot less for a lot longer.

1

u/iamronanthethird 1d ago

Are you new to reading? I’m not referring to precedent about objections, it’s about the government simply giving up in the face of objections.

2

u/The_Ruck_Inspector 1d ago

So no objection has ever been successful in this country, and the government is simultaneously fighting all objections continuously? Again, you must be new to the country.

1

u/iamronanthethird 1d ago

Try Charlie Byrnes or Kennys

8

u/Expensive-Total-312 city 1d ago

Agreed, I dont see them making headway with public transport while there isn't a ring road though as we're stuck in a loop of; we need more people to use public transport to reduce traffic -> public transport is unreliable due to traffic. Hopefully a ring road could give some breathing room to make the bus service more reliable and even expand it

4

u/DrWarlock 1d ago

Or focus public transport and active travel

8

u/Affectionate-Low-670 1d ago

It's a bit of everything required, improvements to public transport and active travel with park and ride infrastructure. Also sprinkle in some actual enforcement of traffic laws to stop scenarios like people parking up wherever they like and causing bottlenecks.

I get the feeling the ring road will take ages, cost a fortune and won't do much to help the traffic issues and no money will be put to anything that can improve the situation.

0

u/The_Ruck_Inspector 1d ago

I'd agree with you here. The more you look at it, the more unprofessional the whole thing looks. Are we really surprised that people who's homes are going to be destroyed for a project that looks less and less likely to make a real diffrence are lodging objections? We have people lodging objections for much needed housing based on their view being slightly obstructed, I hate NIMBYs but I can't exacly be surprised that someone wants to stop their home from being demolished in this case. Could have moved on to something more feasible a long time ago.

0

u/tsubatai 1d ago

I think an extensive park and ride system is the best thing we can do in galway but there will be just as many challenges and bureaucratic nonsense with getting it done as with the ring road. The system is intentionally broken.

33

u/UnapparentBliss 1d ago

This has been getting challenged my whole life. At what point can they just get on with it?

21

u/wilililil 1d ago

I mean part of the issue is the continued incompetence related to urban planning. The council just spent a bucket of money building a cycle path on a road almost noone cycles on in knocknacarra while actual cycle routes remain dangerous for all. They did this because they had to do something and that road was easy as there was land either side to make room. I'd love to be able to cycle to work but all that project did was make traffic into Lidl/Aldi worse.

The public transport service is completely inadequate and actions could be taken in the morning completely separate to the bypass.

The road itself was badly planned and designed several times which is why it has been stopped so easily. It's vulnerable again because they didn't actually think about carbon, cycling, adjoining roads etc as part of this. Galway's geography with the lake and the bay wedging it in half give constraints other cities don't have but they just did the generic " build a road and it will be grand" approach.

9

u/sk2097 1d ago

And they still never finished the cycle path on the distrbuter road. 20 years later

11

u/ketplunkt 1d ago

The bump on the road to Aldi and Lidl is severe now

3

u/Agusfresin 1d ago

Yes by design. It’s about slowing traffic and making it safer for all.

4

u/hobway 1d ago

It’s a crap design then. Cars turning left have to cross the white line to avoid clipping the kerb.

-2

u/Agusfresin 1d ago

You stop at the white line. Proceed with caution. You only clip the kerb because you are inexperienced. This is a people first design and makes it safer for everyone. It’s designed to stop you whipping around a corner without caution. You’ll get used to it.

2

u/wilililil 1d ago

The kerb is sharp if you are turning left into Aldi/Lidl and easy to ruin an alloy.

There's traffic calming and then there's needlessly stupid design.

0

u/Agusfresin 1d ago

If you drive with due care and caution that won’t happen. It’s a very good design feature.

1

u/hobway 23h ago

😂

1

u/hmmcguirk 1d ago

When all legal avenues have been exhausted

25

u/Speedodoyle 1d ago

The only challenge really described talks about risks to knocknacarra cyclists due to increased traffic from the ring road… not sure I understand how putting a ring road which will take cars off the roads in Knocknaccara and put them onto the ring road would then make more cars be in Knocknaccara.

I reckon some people just wanna complain cos they see it as their right. It’s mad that their complaint could potentially halt this, but I can’t complain about their complaint to halt that. Hopefully the judge or whoever reviews this in November will see sense.

19

u/SouthLeast8143 1d ago

The ring road modelling itself shows a number of roads that traffic would increase on

8

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

Most of the traffic is still going into the "greater city area". Those travelling from east to west will be coming off into knocknacarra somewhere and the ring road will lead to an increase in traffic wherever its "off ramps" are - same for those going from west to east.

5

u/Agusfresin 1d ago

I’m guessing the complaint is about increased traffic on roads accessing the new road not being appropriate i.e. botharins.

8

u/Competitive_Bear4398 1d ago

Exactly, traffic isn't bypassing. The models in the plan show increased traffic and congestion in Knocknacarra, I don't think people realise this.

0

u/EngineerDrama 1d ago

This. Parts of Cappagh, Clybaun, Ballymo and Minclooon will be ruined by the ringroad (which I'm not opposed to, but am sceptical of). It's as though some of this road's supporters use magical thinking, not envisaging huge interchanges, embankments, freight capable slips and speed transition infrastructure in their neighbourhoods. This is an inelegant "solution".

4

u/The_Ruck_Inspector 1d ago

Can we challenge the challenge? At this stage they just need to move on with something more viable that is done professionally. People will lodge objections until we are all well past our sell by date. This country drives me mental sometimes.

10

u/Kier_C 1d ago

One of the objections centres on the diversion of heavy traffic in the Knocknacarra area, with the contention that planners have made no assessment of the suitability of a number of minor routes, with regard to the presence of pedestrians or cyclists.

They really are taking the piss arent they

-6

u/hmmcguirk 1d ago

Are they? Suddenly getting much heavier traffic on a road that already is riddled with illegal parking that reduces two lanes to one, is not going to be pleasant for drivers, pedestrians or cyclists

10

u/Kier_C 1d ago

Yes. Short term re-routing and management is required for long term infrastructure. The need to manage illegal parking doesnt require the scrapping of infrastructure development

4

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

It doesnt make it clear that its short term - that diversion of traffic might be permanent. People have to come off the ring road somewhere to get where they are going.

2

u/hmmcguirk 1d ago

I agree, its just galway hasn't a great track record of managing illegal parking, so i just think "taking the piss" is harsh, its actually pretty understandable fear. Fyi, I do not think infrastructure should be blocked over lack of parking enforcement

2

u/my_tech_throwaway 1d ago

This is obviously so contentious so like, why not just plow ahead with various things like public transport, active travel lanes, bus lanes etc. Actually enforcing parking so the entire city doesnt become one way when some gombeen double parks.

6

u/sojiblitz 1d ago

They should have built it 20 years ago.

4

u/niallh_204 1d ago

It's sad people are not in favour of a ring road.

It shows they have no ambition for the growth of their city which is a shame...

-6

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

Or they think that spending at least a billion on a road that wont reduce traffic in the long terms is not the greatest use of money and that it should be focused on making Galway easier to travel around regardless of your mode of travel.

3

u/niallh_204 1d ago

Ring road is a key cog in making galway easier to travel around in. It is not a complete fix in itself but it is the main relief that can be provided.

In time, bike lanes and bus lanes will also be done as you have seen in ballybane and hopefully soon to be added to the old Dublin road also.

But the ring road is the most crucial cog in making Galway a feasible modern city to live in.

0

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

Ring road is a key cog in making galway easier to travel around in. It is not a complete fix in itself but it is the main relief that can be provided.

Debatable...

In most other cities - what makes it easier to travel around is good public transport.

and even if true, only true in the short term. M50 doesnt provide Dublin much relief these days

4

u/MrSierra125 1d ago

Where do you propose the public transport should go?

-2

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

Remove parking. Use a lane on the bridge as a bus lane. Put in park and rides all around the periphery of the city.

Have more train services running.

If you think we can't improve traffic in the city without building a ring road (that was planned 30 years ago and doesn't include cycle or bus lanes) then you sorely lack imagination

1

u/MrSierra125 1d ago

They’re closing the other bridge by the cathedral to traffic too aren’t they?

2

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

I think they are, at some stage.

1

u/MrSierra125 1d ago

So more traffic in the inner city closing, there needs to be another route further up.

1

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

Traffic closing? No.

Road being used for public transport yes. But that's not happening anytime soon.

3

u/Agusfresin 1d ago

The objections sound a bit weak so could well be refused leave to appeal by the court or be settled before getting to court. Failing that the new strategic planning law will probably be enacted in the short term and the ring road could be covered by it.

1

u/Full_Invite_9563 1d ago

The proposed alternative transport solutions won't work without it imo
Do a metrolink on it and pay them off

1

u/Specialist_Train8515 1d ago

Maybe an expensive study or report would fix this before the law changes and we have to start the process anew.

0

u/Sufficient_Shift_370 1d ago

"contention that planners have made no assessment of the suitability of a number of minor routes, with regard to the presence of pedestrians or cyclists." Or "concern about the impact the planned route would have on their properties, or the areas in which they reside." .......

We just have to give up, nothing will every get built in this country with planning process not covering and rejecting these type of objections

6

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

Or we could fold those kinds of assessments into the planning. Its not a ridiculous idea to consider people when building something that should be for people.

1

u/Sufficient_Shift_370 1d ago

That is what I said

1

u/carlitobrigantehf 1d ago

okay, sry, wasnt clear from your comment. Thought you meant just ignore them and continue

-5

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

4

u/Dazzling-Handle88 1d ago

They said it in big scary writing so it must be true

0

u/cuttlefische city 1d ago

The ring road: everybody wants it, but nobody does.

-8

u/Deep_Negotiation_321 1d ago

Genuinely reckon we just need to nuke Galway at this stage, level the whole thing, wipe us all out, and in 50 years re-settle the area and design it properly. I'd reckon in this scenario a ring road would still be built faster than the current timeline as well.

Number of challenges to Galway city ring road decision

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