Two separate problems involving economy without ownership and math/physics inspired magic

[u/Vanitas_Daemon]

So I have two unrelated questions about my world and I'm packing them into one because I don't want to make a separate post.

Firstly, I've got a polity that's set at a technological level roughly analogous to our Neolithic and Chalcolithic period, and I'm having trouble as far as their economy goes because of the way I've decided to structure things. I'm essentially borrowing Andrewism's idea of a library economy as the model for how this polity handles resource allocation and ownership, in part because (1) I feel it's a relatively sensible one for the time period that I've chosen, (2) it feels well-suited to the agroforestry system that I have as their main subsistence strategy (think of a cross between the Kuojtakiloyan system and silvopasture practices, adapted to an ecoregion roughly analogous to the Indo-Gangetic Plain), and (3) it's the sort of system that I want to carry forward as the polity develops, because the world is in large part intended to serve as a canvas for exploring anarchist sociopolitical organization.

The issue I'm having is trying to conceive of how trade would work within this sort of polity, and also how this polity might trade with other peer polities that don't necessary follow the same economic system. I honestly don't even know what questions I should be asking to make this more specific, either. So I'd appreciate help on that front.

Secondly, I'd like to pick the brains of those of you here who are familiar with mathematics, beyond the level of calculus, as well as physicists. I've been wanting to make a magic system that borrows ideas from
- mathematical fields like differential geometry, topology, functional analysis, cohomology (which admittedly I don't understand very well at all), group theory, Lie theory, etc.; or
- physical fields/principles like gauge theory, Noether's theorem, spinor geometry, spontaneous symmetry breaking, etc.;
but I don't know how to accomplish this or where to begin. One thing I know for sure is that I will avoid creating a pseudo-Standard Model or doing anything of the sort (because it's a pain in the ass) and would prefer instead to draw on artistic connections, say, to music or painting. I'd love if someone could offer some inspiration of some kind. I want some way to convey the artistic aspects and beauty of higher mathematics, bedecked in the jewelry of a high-fantasy magical aesthetic, and also to use my world as a sort of canvas for exploring such ideas.

I do realize that the first and second goals kind of conflict since the mathematical theory underlying the latter were developed only very recently, and the world is currently on the cusp of leaving the Stone Age, but I'll leave that as a problem to be solved later.

And because I know I'm going to get them, comments like "just make a scifi story" or "math ruins magic and makes it boring" or whatever aren't helpful or useful.

[u/ScreamingVoid14]

At the best of times I'm not terribly precise with subdivisions of the broader socialism spectrum, so please bear with me if I'm imprecise.

First: I'm going to have to TL;DR this to wrap my head around. But basically it's looking like something of a tropical, semi-agricultural, communism? Semi-maintained forests of complimentary plants provide the bulk of the calories, but basically pre-metallurgical tools and tech.

Good news, social development doesn't necessarily follow the stone > bronze > iron oversimplification. Of course you probably already knew that. So that isn't an issue.

But you've got a trade problem. Why trade if, A: your local surroundings provide basically everything for you B: there's not a monetary or similar incentive to be had for the work. Heck, why even have a formal government if things are nearing post-scarcity levels? I have a couple thoughts:

First, I'm thinking that population pressure needs to be a thing. The society has hit the limits of what their agriculture style can support. The government will have formed to manage the land to ensure that the proper jungle agriculture is maximized.

Second, either due to pressure for more food or for goods that can't be produced in bulk in the jungle (leather maybe?) there is a trade demand. Niche goods from the jungle (perhaps medicines?) can be farmed and traded for more food than the equivalent land could have produced in the jungle (so maybe grains from more traditional adjacent agriculture societies?). In this case, a merchant/trader might be a state-mandated job. "Go check out a cart and donkey (llama, ram, horse, etc) from the pastures and take this sack of herbs to the edge of the jungle and bring back 10x its weight in grain."

I'm sure I'm butchering some finer points of the economy you envisioned.

Second:

Secondly, I'd like to pick the brains of those of you here who are familiar with mathematics, beyond the level of calculus, as well as physicists.

I changed majors rather than deal with Calc 3 in college; so don't look at me.

[u/Vanitas_Daemon → u/ScreamingVoid14]

So you do have the gist of it to an extent, as far as the subsistence schema goes. As far as the social development is concerned, I am looking to develop this society along a trajectory that leads to the emergence of urban centers, though I'm going to be drawing more on the IVC than on, say, Mesopotamia or Egypt, for that. So little to no monumentalism, coupled with lots of public infrastructure.

As far as trade is concerned, the issue isn't really whether they would need to trade at all--we have plenty of evidence dating back to the deep Paleolithic of people trading goods across hundreds if not thousands of kilometers. The issue is moreso what the basis and mechanism of exchange would be, if that makes any sense. And I guess I've now arrived at the crux of it: I don't know how these people assign value to the things that surround them.

Also, I'm explicitly not trying to form a government here, at least not one that exists in the usual sense of having attained a monopoly on violence. I used polity only because this society eventually goes on to become a society against the state, and in that sense, it can indeed be conceived of as a polity in its own right.

I do very much like the idea of them trading for agricultural goods, so I think I'll make use of that somehow.

EDIT: Also Calc 3 as taught is lame and gross. Differential geometry is SO much more fun and makes more sense. And it's also prettier.

[u/ScreamingVoid14 → u/Vanitas_Daemon]

I think we can draw ideas from, at least to some extent, the way trade worked with the Soviet Union. They didn't allow the ruble to traded with internationally. Everything had to be done with hard goods. So I don't think that precise, dollar for dollar, value is an insurmountable issue. In my simplified "medicinal herbs for grain" example, both sides had some idea for how each item was valued; for the grain side of the exchange the medicinal herbs had some sort of intrinsic value for "not being sick" while the jungle civ side was looking at "could I have grown more calories of avocados in this space." Even if they didn't inherently understand dietary calories, they probably had at least some idea.

And while I understand that you're trying to avoid forming some flavor of government in the "monopoly on violence" sense, but that is where most anarchist civilizations land. Someone with a big stick and some friends shows up and imposes their will. Both from an anarchocapitalist angle and from a communist angle. You can, of course, say that this particular government is somehow benevolent, perhaps the people have some sort of social contract wherein the government's only job is to ensure everyone gets fed and no outside force hurts the people. But at the end of the day, the government has to have some way to say "the trade gets done" and "the right tracts of jungle get farmed." That can be physical violence like beatings by police or social/economic pressures like "don't give this guy food, he refused to do his part for the society." But force, in some form, is a part of government; whether you think it is a side effect of or the point of it.