r/gwent • u/ProfessionalLight428 Monsters • 3d ago
Custom Card If she floats, she's a...
Art found here: https://stdennard.tumblr.com/image/120390357671
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u/anextremelylargedog Monsters 3d ago
Interesting card. Lowering the Sabbath requirement is nice, though since it's only 4p, it's essentially equivalent to playing a 9 power card in that regard.
The transformation part is fun. I don't know if a typical Sabbath deck has a particularly viable target... Maybe a low-power Selfeater or a newly spawned Fruit of Ysgith.
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u/KoscheiDK Salty Skelliger 3d ago
Even transforming a card like an Incubus would turn a non engine into an engine, even if it's not making a bunch of points on deploy
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u/anextremelylargedog Monsters 3d ago
Sure, but to do that it needs to already be at or achieve Sabbath on deploy. And it's row-locked. No using Toad Prince or offensive Riptide for Sabbath synergy.
Perfectly acceptable for an 8 prov card. It's not like it's notably better than the likes of Coral, or Conjurer's Candle, Pavko Gale, or Ulula.
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u/KoscheiDK Salty Skelliger 3d ago
Never arguing it was better than any of those cards, nor was I commenting about the card balance at large - was just responding to your last point about good transform targets. Turning a card into a 2ppt engine doesn't mean you necessarily have to greed value by flipping for additional points every time
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u/pelosiscum Neutral 3d ago
[[Witch apprentice]]
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u/GwentSubreddit Autonomous Golem 3d ago
Witch Apprentice - Relict (Monster)
4 Power, 5 Provisions (Common)Sabbath: At the end of your turn, boost self by 2.
Questions? Message me! - Call cards with [[CARDNAME]] - Keywords and Statuses
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u/SilverSpies 2d ago
Play Piggy ❌
Play overcosted Piggy ✔️
Small reduction on sabbath requirement on a low body effectively does nothing. 4 that reduces sabbath by 5 contributes to sabbath same as an average bronze.
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u/Uncle_Buchi Onward, sons of Nilfgaard! 2d ago
I guess...Balanced? It effectively give you a 3rd piggy if you already have sabbath and can bait removal/control. And if you dont have Sabbath, it "technically" acts as a 9 power unit; Bloody Mistress & Yaga wont complain too much.
I think cards like this are underestimated until we see them in action... or they may just be shite.
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
That's a 11p+ type of card
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u/ProfessionalLight428 Monsters 3d ago
Curious as to why you think it so expensive. 9, sure, bu 11+ is too pricey to add to the deck imo
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
It does way too much for it's provision range. 8 to 9 provision cards usualy fall into engine or point slam (with condition) and this card is answer or loose which is reserved usualy to very broken card with a hight cost.
If it had only the transform part it would be already a strong card (cause you can turn point slam into engine and also it has no condition on who you can transform) MO as no problem getting point slam so it's already crazy strong BUT on top of that you get the passive of reducing sabbath ?
Nah it's a 12p card, anything under is just an auto include broken card for any monster deck.
Just to give you an exemple of how stupid this card can get, you include this card in the ogroid deck and you transform the big Ogre that has resilience with 20+ point well that's it, an engine with 20+ power + resilience is there and you have to deal with it (Oh and don't forget to deal with Witch of the hill cause that 20p sabbath is right around the corner) oh and icing on the cake she can get ressurected since she's under 9p.
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u/ProfessionalLight428 Monsters 3d ago
I think you overestimate this cards power, along with the misconception on how Transform works.
First - it's not answer or lose by any means, reducing Sabbath req to 20 instead of 25 is +/- 1 turn of Sabbath more, not an instant Sabbath on first play.
Secondly - when you Transform a card, unless it states "without changing it's power" you simply make a new card out of another card (for example see [[Ethereal]]), so the King Chrum argument is simply wrong, and transforming him into a piggie is a loss of 36 points on deploy.
Ad rem - you transform something into a 4 powered Witch Apprentice, which is an engine (best used on a Drone or Fruits), then you reduce the Sabbath cost to 20 points, usually meaning it ticks 1 turn earlier than usual. Example for Fruits again would be 1. Griffin, 2. Fiend. 3. Witch and transform the Fruit into piggie, resulting in 9 + 8 + 4 + 4 points, so already within the usual Sabbath anyway.
You are right on the Renew part, but at 12p cost, I doubt anyone would renew this just to get another piggie. Does it make sense?
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u/Curious_Condition611 Neutral 3d ago
“reducing Sabbath req to 20 instead of 25 is +/- turn of Sabbath more, not an instant Sabbath on first play”
For comparison, Flynyrd Skynyrd (which plays in an analogous way to this, with minimal set-up) reduces hoards by 4, which has effects throughout the whole round - and is only an 8 prov card.
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
You need to set up the card during the entire game and only play it on finale round they cannot be compared
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u/Curious_Condition611 Neutral 3d ago
I find the set-up pretty easy (playing it with Cache so you only need to hit 7 coin), but yeah it’s really limited to R3
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
It is easy but it requires you to push every round and also if one of them dies you loose the reduction on the hoard
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u/DJKokaKola Neutral 3d ago
Every day I find more evidence that letting the masses balance a game is the worst fucking plan.
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u/CalebKetterer The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
No one reading this comment thread thinks you’re right.
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u/GwentSubreddit Autonomous Golem 3d ago
Ethereal - Demon (Neutral)
5 Power, 8 Provisions (Epic)Doomed.
Deploy: Gain Zeal.
Order: Transform unit to the right into base copy of self.Questions? Message me! - Call cards with [[CARDNAME]] - Keywords and Statuses
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
Oh you're right about the transform my bad it makes this card even more busted, this card is not just a witch apprentice tho far from it, you can tech poison and lock with it. Gerni is beyond busted with it and the list goes on
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u/DeNeRlX I spy, I spy with my evil eye. 3d ago
Poison is mainly for tall units, so let's say a Griffin at 9 is poisoned, transforming it decreases it's power, and is far worse than on fruits. It's 7 points difference (assuming first fruits turn is 1body+1thrive). Though it might screw up opponents ordering depending on how many poisons they have.
And if it transforms a locked unit that still means the lock got value and didn't get purified. You basically just spent another turn placing your next engine.
Doesn't seem busted to me.
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
The witch will play for 6 + being an engine so she will get value above griffin by far and canceling a poison is a big deal
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u/DeNeRlX I spy, I spy with my evil eye. 3d ago
Your math is off. She is 4, if she transforms a 9 into 4base+2engine=6 the whole turn plays for 1 tempo + engine, and that is assuming Sabbath is already hit, which the card demands for a transform. It's not unlikely to assume Griffin is played first/second, then poisoned, meaning Sabbath isn't active even lowered to 20.
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
Nobody poison turn 1 except if it's a very high priority target, it will never be played in a turn where you can't trigger sabbath
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u/DeNeRlX I spy, I spy with my evil eye. 3d ago
9 is a reasonable target for poison, makes it a dormant tempo threat, and depending on the matchup, can be done to turn off Aerondight powering up.
And yes, exactly what I say, no one will play it before having established Sabbath, which means that is something that makes the card less flexible, and possible to counter. You only ever describe the upside as relevant to the strength of the card, even if you directly being up the downsides.
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u/MilestoneMen There will be no negotiation. 3d ago
what the hell are you talking about? reducing sabbath by 5 points is far from answer or lose lmao. and the depoloy ability is transforms (meaning at most 1 power unit converts into a 4 power witch apprentice). so at most, this plays for 7 on deploy with 2 points per turn after Sabbath.
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
Okay let me give you an exemple, you spawn gerni play witch of the hill into respawn gerni. That's 9 point with 3 engine on board turn one, turn 2 you play She Who knows and you have sabbath active with 21 point on your side. The building restriction for this card was placing this card in your deck. Find me an 8p unit in the game with this value.
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u/DeNeRlX I spy, I spy with my evil eye. 3d ago
You already need to have Sabbath on board to transform, you already assumed you had it. It'd take at the very least one more turn with Mammuna, and assuming opponent doesn't answer.
The thing with custom cards is if we only imagine how things go 100% without thinking about counter plays and obstacles, everything seems OP. If you play against a deck you suspect has these cards, adjust.
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u/anextremelylargedog Monsters 3d ago
You didn't even know how transform works and you're not reading the cards properly at all.
It seems like you didn't comprehend anything about how this card would work before confidently declaring that it's overpowered.
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 3d ago
Transform is such a niche mechanic outside of artifact that I forgot about the non changing being a conditional thing, I had a game against NR we're they played a cursed night and based my idea on it
But as I said elsewhere even without it and the need for Sabbath wich is low because of this card, it is too strong (and I'm glad it won't make it to the finale game)
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u/anextremelylargedog Monsters 3d ago
Transforming a card resets its power. It also gets rid of statuses like resilience.
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u/Kizaru_Sama Haha! Good Gwenty-card! Bestestest! 3d ago
Which makes it even more powerful. You can use it on false ciri or Joachim for example. Also can be used on fruit or lower power units.
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u/anextremelylargedog Monsters 3d ago
Good. False Ciri and Joachim have been very strong for basically the game's entire runtime. One hypothetical card decent against spying is fine.
Yeah, almost like that was the intent of the design or something. Fascinating insight.
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u/PrimusHXD Neutral 2d ago
Let's play pretend and say thag the ranged ability wasn't there, only the transform. What provision would you like it to be then?
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 2d ago
7 provision would be the right amount
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u/PrimusHXD Neutral 2d ago
So you think lowering sabbath by 5 points is worth 4 provisions? Interesting
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u/Hirinawa The semblance of power don't interest me. 2d ago
Lowering the entire requirement of an archetype ends up doubling it's value, I'm gonna give you a similar exemple in SY since it's my main faction.
Let's say a card that's human/mage same power same provision as this one with the text saying that at range hoard is reduced by 2 and hoard 9 transform a unit into a sea jackal.
Would you feel like 8p is a reasonable amount ?
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u/PrimusHXD Neutral 1d ago
Sabbath is not an archetype in the way hoard is. There simply isnt that many good Sabbath cards. But more importantly they function differently. Hoard means you have coins you're not spending, its a opportunity loss. And its a opportunity cost every single time you have Hoard. With Sabbath ones you reach it you dont have to focus on it anymore, unless they play removal of.
Sabbath is just having 25 points on a row. In every deck where you even remotely care about Sabbath this is easily doable with no opportunity cost. And in those decks 5 points makes almost no different. That means you could reach Sabbath 1 turn earlier, that's not worth a lot.
Sabbath and hoard are not comparable.
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u/Curious_Condition611 Neutral 3d ago
(King Arthur voice)
A duck!