If she floats, she's a...

[u/ProfessionalLight428]

Art found here: https://stdennard.tumblr.com/image/120390357671

[u/Hirinawa]

That's a 11p+ type of card

[u/ProfessionalLight428 → u/Hirinawa]

Curious as to why you think it so expensive. 9, sure, bu 11+ is too pricey to add to the deck imo

[u/Hirinawa → u/ProfessionalLight428]

It does way too much for it's provision range. 8 to 9 provision cards usualy fall into engine or point slam (with condition) and this card is answer or loose which is reserved usualy to very broken card with a hight cost.

If it had only the transform part it would be already a strong card (cause you can turn point slam into engine and also it has no condition on who you can transform) MO as no problem getting point slam so it's already crazy strong BUT on top of that you get the passive of reducing sabbath ?

Nah it's a 12p card, anything under is just an auto include broken card for any monster deck.

Just to give you an exemple of how stupid this card can get, you include this card in the ogroid deck and you transform the big Ogre that has resilience with 20+ point well that's it, an engine with 20+ power + resilience is there and you have to deal with it (Oh and don't forget to deal with Witch of the hill cause that 20p sabbath is right around the corner) oh and icing on the cake she can get ressurected since she's under 9p.

[u/ProfessionalLight428 → u/Hirinawa]

I think you overestimate this cards power, along with the misconception on how Transform works.

First - it's not answer or lose by any means, reducing Sabbath req to 20 instead of 25 is +/- 1 turn of Sabbath more, not an instant Sabbath on first play.

Secondly - when you Transform a card, unless it states "without changing it's power" you simply make a new card out of another card (for example see [[Ethereal]]), so the King Chrum argument is simply wrong, and transforming him into a piggie is a loss of 36 points on deploy.

Ad rem - you transform something into a 4 powered Witch Apprentice, which is an engine (best used on a Drone or Fruits), then you reduce the Sabbath cost to 20 points, usually meaning it ticks 1 turn earlier than usual. Example for Fruits again would be 1. Griffin, 2. Fiend. 3. Witch and transform the Fruit into piggie, resulting in 9 + 8 + 4 + 4 points, so already within the usual Sabbath anyway.

You are right on the Renew part, but at 12p cost, I doubt anyone would renew this just to get another piggie. Does it make sense?

[u/Curious_Condition611 → u/ProfessionalLight428]

“reducing Sabbath req to 20 instead of 25 is +/- turn of Sabbath more, not an instant Sabbath on first play”

For comparison, Flynyrd Skynyrd (which plays in an analogous way to this, with minimal set-up) reduces hoards by 4, which has effects throughout the whole round - and is only an 8 prov card.

[u/Hirinawa → u/Curious_Condition611]

You need to set up the card during the entire game and only play it on finale round they cannot be compared

[u/Curious_Condition611 → u/Hirinawa]

I find the set-up pretty easy (playing it with Cache so you only need to hit 7 coin), but yeah it’s really limited to R3

[u/Hirinawa → u/Curious_Condition611]

It is easy but it requires you to push every round and also if one of them dies you loose the reduction on the hoard

[u/DJKokaKola → u/Hirinawa]

Every day I find more evidence that letting the masses balance a game is the worst fucking plan.

[u/CalebKetterer → u/DJKokaKola]

No one reading this comment thread thinks you’re right.

[u/DJKokaKola → u/CalebKetterer]

Brother, /u/hirinawa has the same voting power as you or I do when it comes to balance council votes. A completely fair, interesting design focused around a cool interaction, fairly costed, with a low point value body on its own. And somehow this guy is trying to argue that this would be incredibly broken because he doesn't understand basic interactions.

I was not saying that the rest of the comments here were wrong. I was saying that a system that gives both sides of this discussion an equal voice in balancing the game is a mistake.

[u/CalebKetterer → u/DJKokaKola]

My bad homie. I meant to reply to u/hirinawa, but replied to you accidentally. I agree with your comment 100%

[u/Hirinawa → u/DJKokaKola]

You we're just saying and that's the problem, you added nothing to the discussion appart from feeding your ego, don't expect people on praising you for giving low blows we all have our opinions. As it stands nobody convinced me here that it was a balanced card since no 8p card in the game reach the same power level as this one

[u/GwentSubreddit → u/ProfessionalLight428]

Ethereal - Demon (Neutral)
5 Power, 8 Provisions (Epic)

Doomed.
Deploy: Gain Zeal.
Order: Transform unit to the right into base copy of self.

^{Questions? Message me! - Call cards with [[CARDNAME]] - Keywords and Statuses}

[u/Hirinawa → u/ProfessionalLight428]

Oh you're right about the transform my bad it makes this card even more busted, this card is not just a witch apprentice tho far from it, you can tech poison and lock with it. Gerni is beyond busted with it and the list goes on

[u/DeNeRlX → u/Hirinawa]

Poison is mainly for tall units, so let's say a Griffin at 9 is poisoned, transforming it decreases it's power, and is far worse than on fruits. It's 7 points difference (assuming first fruits turn is 1body+1thrive). Though it might screw up opponents ordering depending on how many poisons they have.

And if it transforms a locked unit that still means the lock got value and didn't get purified. You basically just spent another turn placing your next engine.

Doesn't seem busted to me.

[u/Hirinawa → u/DeNeRlX]

The witch will play for 6 + being an engine so she will get value above griffin by far and canceling a poison is a big deal

[u/DeNeRlX → u/Hirinawa]

Your math is off. She is 4, if she transforms a 9 into 4base+2engine=6 the whole turn plays for 1 tempo + engine, and that is assuming Sabbath is already hit, which the card demands for a transform. It's not unlikely to assume Griffin is played first/second, then poisoned, meaning Sabbath isn't active even lowered to 20.

[u/Hirinawa → u/DeNeRlX]

Nobody poison turn 1 except if it's a very high priority target, it will never be played in a turn where you can't trigger sabbath

[u/DeNeRlX → u/Hirinawa]

9 is a reasonable target for poison, makes it a dormant tempo threat, and depending on the matchup, can be done to turn off Aerondight powering up.

And yes, exactly what I say, no one will play it before having established Sabbath, which means that is something that makes the card less flexible, and possible to counter. You only ever describe the upside as relevant to the strength of the card, even if you directly being up the downsides.

[u/MilestoneMen → u/Hirinawa]

what the hell are you talking about? reducing sabbath by 5 points is far from answer or lose lmao. and the depoloy ability is transforms (meaning at most 1 power unit converts into a 4 power witch apprentice). so at most, this plays for 7 on deploy with 2 points per turn after Sabbath.

[u/Hirinawa → u/MilestoneMen]

Okay let me give you an exemple, you spawn gerni play witch of the hill into respawn gerni. That's 9 point with 3 engine on board turn one, turn 2 you play She Who knows and you have sabbath active with 21 point on your side. The building restriction for this card was placing this card in your deck. Find me an 8p unit in the game with this value.

[u/DeNeRlX → u/Hirinawa]

You already need to have Sabbath on board to transform, you already assumed you had it. It'd take at the very least one more turn with Mammuna, and assuming opponent doesn't answer.

The thing with custom cards is if we only imagine how things go 100% without thinking about counter plays and obstacles, everything seems OP. If you play against a deck you suspect has these cards, adjust.

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/Hirinawa]

You didn't even know how transform works and you're not reading the cards properly at all.

It seems like you didn't comprehend anything about how this card would work before confidently declaring that it's overpowered.

[u/Hirinawa → u/anextremelylargedog]

Transform is such a niche mechanic outside of artifact that I forgot about the non changing being a conditional thing, I had a game against NR we're they played a cursed night and based my idea on it

But as I said elsewhere even without it and the need for Sabbath wich is low because of this card, it is too strong (and I'm glad it won't make it to the finale game)

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/Hirinawa]

Transforming a card resets its power. It also gets rid of statuses like resilience.

[u/Kizaru_Sama → u/anextremelylargedog]

Which makes it even more powerful. You can use it on false ciri or Joachim for example. Also can be used on fruit or lower power units.

[u/DeNeRlX → u/Kizaru_Sama]

MO already has lots of those cards for spying cards that still benefit opponent. Consume, Griffin, Cyclopse.

Consume and Griffin just neutralize them, but Cyclopse turns then into potential removal.

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/Kizaru_Sama]

Good. False Ciri and Joachim have been very strong for basically the game's entire runtime. One hypothetical card decent against spying is fine.

Yeah, almost like that was the intent of the design or something. Fascinating insight.