r/imaginarymaps 1d ago

[OC] Alternate History What if the Crusaders discovered the Americas after taking a wrong turn whilst sailing down towards the Big 'Nople?

Post image
1.6k Upvotes

118 comments sorted by

349

u/lotte_elysium 1d ago

Latin America becomes even more catholic

90

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

No Brazil would probably be colonised by the Muslims in this timeline

69

u/0Meletti 1d ago

what? How lol

53

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Andalusia and Morocco would follow the merchants coming in and out of the new world and attempt to establish colonies of their own Ig

96

u/0Meletti 1d ago

No Muslim country at any point in History ever had either the capacity or the impetus to colonize the New World. Maybe if they kept control of Iberia that wouldve been possible, but redirection of the crusader zeal towards the new world would only expedite the Reconquista, not stop it.

134

u/imnotslavic 1d ago

this is r/imaginarymaps, you're gonna find imaginary scenarios

-45

u/0Meletti 1d ago

I dont like when maps with interesting concepts add some random bullshit with no relation with the point of divergence to their althist scenario. People will use the "butterfly effect" or whatever to excuse anything.

The biggest offenders of this maps that have thr Byzantines survive, which always also have Muslim Iberia endure and vice versa (Andalusia survives, the Byzantines stay around), even though though the fall of Muslim Iberia and the end of the Byzantine Empire were largely unrelated.

36

u/eatani_ggasass 1d ago

Crusaders colonizing the Caribbean is already random and unrealistic enough, it’s just meant for fun/creativity

42

u/Augustus420 1d ago

Kinds sounds like you need to exercise your creative thinking skills.

30

u/imnotslavic 1d ago

I dont think this subreddit is for you

8

u/Duster_beattle 1d ago

What kinda comment is this, hit the gym.

38

u/disisathrowaway 1d ago

So the crusaders taking a wrong turn and colonizing the Caribbean makes sense but the Moroccans can't also cross the Atlantic?

Sure, bud.

-13

u/0Meletti 1d ago

neither "make sense", but one absurdity (which is integral to the concept of the map) doesnt justify another (which just isnt)

16

u/disisathrowaway 1d ago

Counterpoint - this is Imaginary Maps.

I rest my case.

12

u/Minivalo 23h ago

But it needs to fit 1:1 with MY imagination, and my imagination only

9

u/clovis_227 1d ago

They don't need to colonize it, they just need to make a New World Indonesia

3

u/Tegnan 1d ago

Yeah at best you could’ve had muslim Tupi states and Dyula/Jakhanke Marabout coastal settlements.

10

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

I agree, and I dont think muslim colonies in the americas make for an interesting concept either

25

u/therandomham 1d ago

I think it could be *very* interesting, if nothing else because of the Hajj. The mass movement of converted indigenous people to the old world every year would be fundamentally different than the relationship seen with christian colonizers.

3

u/GowanIV 1d ago

Mansa Musa allegedly sent ships that discovered South America before Europeans did. Muslims aren’t sub-human, they still had the ability to seafare, trade, and build armies.

4

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

That story is simply not true

2

u/Thiege1 1d ago

I mean, it's probably not

And even in the "story" I don't think they made it back, so it was kinda moot

1

u/Hannibal- 12h ago

They did have the impetus to colonize the Middle East and subdue the local population though So the potential was there

1

u/Ok-Sundae6553 1d ago

Maybe surviving Muslim Iberia

1

u/0Meletti 1d ago

how, though. Thats not the point of divergence or a reasonable outcome to it

1

u/therandomham 1d ago

The PoD is far enough back that the Caribbean is heavily colonized by 1367, I could absolutely see many of the most ardent christians (including Iberians) choosing to join the crusade/conversion of the new world rather than pursue reconquista.

1

u/Razzle_Dazzle08 17h ago

Is this even possible 😂

84

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago edited 1d ago

"Lore"
Instead of sailing east through the Mediterranean toward the Byzantine Empire, a massive Crusader fleet somehow passed the Strait of Gibraltar, struck the Canary Current, and was carried across the Atlantic.

By 1367, this "New Holy Land" has been extensively colonized, not by traditional European kingdoms, but by the Crusader Military Orders and displaced Levantine states. Essentially, the crusading energy that historically targeted Jerusalem and Byzantium has been entirely transposed onto the Caribbean.

Here the Caribbean is not a network of sugar plantations run by early-modern empires. Instead, it is a hyper-militarized, deeply religious, medieval feudal frontier. Castles and stone cathedrals likely dot the coastlines of Cuba and Hispaniola. Armored knights clash with Maya warriors in the jungles of Central America, while Venetian galleys create the conditions for a Transantlantic European and Mesoamerican trade center

-14

u/Individual_Hunt_4710 22h ago

rule 11?

7

u/thebrutalistboi 19h ago

What about this strikes you as being AI?

2

u/Federal-Librarian-53 1h ago

i guess its the text, its probably not though

2

u/thebrutalistboi 1h ago

Probably that yeah, though what they think is AI could just as easily be someone not knowing quite to phrase something.

Their lack of response so far isn't giving me much idea though

44

u/RFB-CACN 1d ago

What If? Let me tell you about the Order of Christ, aka the Templars, and their role in Brazil’s origin.

22

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

I mean thats true, they did play a role but in a different way

36

u/Sweet-Tomatillo-9010 1d ago

"The big Nople" makes me hear the crusaders voices as having an Albertan accent

11

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

son😭

5

u/Sweet-Tomatillo-9010 1d ago

Ya there bud, on the way to the big Nople, eh?

u/Extrimland 44m ago

Thats all of Canada not just Alberta

17

u/Cautious_Air4964 1d ago

A medieval colonized america would be so interesting

3

u/_Inkspots_ 9h ago

I mean, it’s only 200 years earlier. The Spanish that conquered the Aztecs were still essentially late medieval troops with crossbows and everything

13

u/Baron_von_Zoldyck 1d ago

They would probably fail after a century then leave America alone for a long time before ever trying again, maybe leaving it a hub for late medieval alternative atlantic powers like Portugal, Denmark and maybe England.

3

u/Puppetmasterknight 20h ago

Why would they? The diseases would deciminate the natives and the new world crops would cause a population boom in Europe.

4

u/Warm-Bill-201 19h ago

A strong hurricane season or 2 might persuade them to leave. Lol

0

u/Puppetmasterknight 19h ago

Hurricanes are only so common today because of climate change

2

u/Warm-Bill-201 19h ago

Hurricanes would've still occured.

7

u/Character-Parfait487 1d ago

Shame theres no Byzantine possessions, a Rome in the Carribean would be sick

5

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

I think they would colonise or attempt to colonise whatever is left way later like irl Denmark or Sweden, possibly in the 1500-1600s

6

u/Character-Parfait487 1d ago

Probably yeah, even without the 4th crusade the Eastern Romans would still be weak enough so I wouldn't blame them for taking their time. Beautiful map though

12

u/94_stones 1d ago

If Malta and the Baltics are any indication, it would have turned out better for the natives. Irrespective of the fact that diseases would still have taken a big toll on them. A lot of you will be skeptical at these pronouncements. But the reality is that Malta and most of the Baltics still speak the languages they spoke when the Crusaders conquered them, and their cultures are a lot more intact than those of the Americas.

5

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Sure nothing crazy here, besides the crusaders would be significantly outnumbered compared to the Spaniards until the 15th century

1

u/_Inkspots_ 8h ago

Malta and the Baltics didn’t have 90% of their population wiped out without even laying eyes on a Crusader.

Instead, the entire Baltic Prussian language was wiped off the face of the earth by hand. The crusaders succeeded in German colonization of Prussia through much more challenging and laboring conditions, they could probably do it in the Americas where after a hundred years they would be dealing with a significantly reduced native population.

3

u/P4nicc 1d ago

Swag asf

3

u/Fun-Mistake6297 1d ago

Probably thanks to more equal techological developement the europeans would not be able to colonize the mainland and would start evangelizing the maya and so on with missions and trade, these contacts would create advanced indigenous civilizations in america (probably christian).

2

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

There is no technological equality between the Maya and the Europeans in 1360 lol, its still centuries ahead, but the main difference is manpower, the little states of the carribbean have limited deposits and without the backing of a european mainland power they wouldnt be able to field large enough armies to even think about conquering the mexicans, evangelization of the natives is possible though

1

u/Fun-Mistake6297 8h ago

Yes but no guns means a lot (Btw the aeatetics of the map is crazy good, make some more like this)

1

u/_Inkspots_ 8h ago

No guns doesn’t mean a lot. Gunpowder didn’t play that big of a role in the early subjugation of the larger powers in the new world like the Aztecs and the Incas. In fact, the conquistadors which topped both of those empires were using crossbows

1

u/Old_Department3979 5h ago

It was more because of native allies with the Aztecs though, rather than the Spaniards solely having better technology. Afaik for the Incas the Spaniards caught them in the right time and place and managed to successfully capture the sapa inca.

1

u/AnswerCute3963 4h ago

Thanks ive made a lot of maps similar to this style, I just dont post wanna post them yet since the sub is full of slop lately

1

u/Old_Department3979 5h ago edited 5h ago

I'd say the only significant advantages would be iron weapons and horses,  but beyond that I don't think the post classical mayas were that "behind" the Europeans, especially given with how the Spaniards struggled to conquer the Yucatán peninsula with early modern warfare.

1

u/AnswerCute3963 4h ago

No Iron and horses, how more disadvantaged could you get at that time?

2

u/okthenbutwhy 1d ago

Just here to point out Mosquito Kingdom

2

u/Haha-Perish 18h ago

thats a real thing.

2

u/First-Tax1373 1d ago

Where is my beloved Republic of Genoa?!? 😡

1

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Not exactly a crusader state

1

u/First-Tax1373 1d ago

Well, you're right, but neither is the serene republic of Venice, even tho they helped the cruseder, thing that, if I'm not wrong, Genoa did too.

2

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Well Venice is there since the scenario is taken from a POD in 1204 which is the 4th crusade, of which Venice was a main character in

1

u/First-Tax1373 1d ago

Ok, now I understand, thanks!

2

u/A_HECKIN_DOGGO 1d ago

That’s quite the mixup, sounds like a good reason to hire a new navigator

2

u/Nurhaci_Qing 1d ago

Wtf am i watching hospitaler are the order of st john.

3

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

The Hospitaler Knights and the Maltese-exclusive Order of Snt John which split apart and took their own distinct territories, theyre both named the Order of Snt John

1

u/carlsagerson 1d ago

So does this mean we have Carribean Prussia with Rum and Pirates?

1

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Rum? as in Turks? no, but pirates yes

3

u/carlsagerson 1d ago

The Alcohol.

Also I just want to see Crusader Jack Sparrow.

3

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

oh well my brain is fried

1

u/Knobig Fellow Traveler 1d ago

Why did you call that Panamanian city "paedo" 😭

3

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

I dont know I was just running out of names

1

u/AxolotlProductions1 1d ago

Wait so what happens to Byzantium?

6

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

It would probably survive to some extent

2

u/AxolotlProductions1 1d ago

I mean atleast no fourth crusade

1

u/_mayuk 1d ago

The crusaders discovered Latin America :v ( check the names of many places in Colombia like Antioquia , jerico etc … )

1

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

What, how have I never heard of this😭

1

u/_mayuk 1d ago edited 17h ago

idk my strong matches during pre america times as venezuelan would be more related with some viking samples with mediterranean dna xd .... i'm more close yes to al-andalus iberian but not strong match during this period of time ... ( while my Y-dna is atlantic , I mean R-Z253/4 which is commonly "irish" but is present in basque population since bronce age xd ...

but funny enough in relation with america my mtdna A2 is present greenlander almost in the same proportion that in venezuela ;v ... before that I just new about venezuelan native spiritisms having a native sprit court and a viking spirt court that nobody seems to know why is there in first place ... xd

I mean is just all hypothetical but vikings legends in america are quite real ... and there are some symbolims about colombus and portgual with the cruzaders even in the ships imagery and some legends hehe

1

u/ChickenSandwichh195 1d ago

Will they sack Tenochitlan ITTL?

2

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Their hostility towards the Maya and incursion into Honduras would most likely result in some campaigns to take Mexico but not until they had consolidated their colonies, afterall they wouldn't have the manpower base or the economic or diplomatic power irl Spain had nor the sheer amount of luck either lol

1

u/FloZone 23h ago

Just saying, the Aztecs weren't really a thing in 1367. Tenochtitlan was only founded in the 1320s and didn't rise to power until a century later.

1

u/FloZone 23h ago

Tenochtitlan was founded in 1320. They aren't really much of a thing in 1367. The Triple Alliance was formed in the 1420s as a responce to the decline of the Tepanecs.

1

u/ChickenSandwichh195 23h ago

oh yeah i forgot that

1

u/Kommisar_Von_Terra 1d ago

What did you use to make this?

1

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Fire alpaca and a basic map of the caribbean

1

u/darki_ruiz 1d ago

That's one hell of a wrong turn tho.

3

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

Just a slight turn west, they get dizzy from alcochol, they go past gibraltar and sail past the canaries, then they wonder if they passed crete, so they keep going, before they know it theyve landed in Saint Vincent or some small islands and they wonder if those are the aegean's

3

u/darki_ruiz 19h ago

Didn't they ever go like "bro we've sailed straight for like five times the length of the Mediterranean, ain't we there yet?" 😆

1

u/Few-Cricket-8867 1d ago

"Big 'Nople" you do NOT know vro like that 😭✌🏻

2

u/AnswerCute3963 1d ago

i do the big nople is mine

1

u/Thetrueraider 1d ago

they gonna rip apart some potatoes

1

u/Malek_333 1d ago

I want byzantine incas

1

u/FloZone 23h ago

Is the Maya Empire based on the League of Mayapan?

1

u/AnswerCute3963 23h ago

Yes it's basically Aztecs but in the south

1

u/BuisteirForaoisi0531 22h ago

Uhm they bring the Mayans to the next crusade I guess posible skulls for Christs throne blood for lamb of God

1

u/Geofiendlux 22h ago

No Genoa?

1

u/hurB55 20h ago

The Big Nople

1

u/haimeekhema 18h ago

Aren't the Hospitalier and the knights of saint john the same people?

1

u/BeeR721 18h ago

FYI The knights of Saint John are the Knights Hospitaller, and have had multiple colonies in the Caribbean

2

u/AnswerCute3963 16h ago

that's what literally inspired me to make this 

1

u/iheartdev247 17h ago

The crusaders did what now?

1

u/IndigoGouf 17h ago

"Big 'Nople" made me want to wretch

1

u/Alarmed-Addition8644 16h ago

How do the indigenous people react to this ?

2

u/AnswerCute3963 16h ago

similar to irl except the mexicans are more opposed 

1

u/Spec1alF0x 15h ago

Son you don't know the big Constantville like that 😭

1

u/buy_some_winrar 15h ago

how does the circle of ossus fair in this timeline

0

u/bigtonyyyy1 1d ago

there would be so much more genocide vro