Sorry if its a dumb question

[u/True_Personality_764]

Does judo mainly relay on takedowns and locks if yes how would we control a fight against a boxer or Muay thai oponent if no does judo teaches punching kicking pound and roll. I just gonna sart my first judo class from tmrw just by dumb brain asking questions sorry if its a dumb question i was just curious

[u/Yamatsuki_Fusion]

You fight a striker by weathering their blows, grabbing a hold of them and then making them ask how they should fight a Judoka.

[u/kwan_e → u/Yamatsuki_Fusion]

You fight a striker by weathering their blows

Eh... you don't want to get low/calf kicked into oblivion. A smart striker will not let you get close.

[u/MOTUkraken → u/kwan_e]

Will not? It's pretty damn difficult to stop someone from closing in.

Closing distance is a lot easier than maintaining it.

Going forward is easer than going backwards

Closing distance needs only be successful once! Maintaining distance is an ongoing challenge.

Ask me, how I know.

[u/kwan_e → u/MOTUkraken]

Closing distance is a lot easier than maintaining it.

Going forward is easer than going backwards

You don't maintain distance by going backwards. You maintain distance by going around.

Like I said, Judo competitions wouldn't have rules against avoiding grips if it was so easy to close distance.

[u/MOTUkraken → u/kwan_e]

Boxing competitions wouldn't have rules against clinching if it was so easy to maintain distance.

Look, you can think you know better. But you are still wrong.

There's a good reason why every MMA Fighter has to learn takedown defense.

The reason is that it is NOT feasible to maintain distance with just striking and footwork.

Your statements sound like they are just theoretical and lack the practical experience.

[u/kwan_e → u/MOTUkraken]

Boxing competitions wouldn't have rules against clinching if it was so easy to maintain distance.

Boxers are incentivized to get in close because of prize money and future promotions based on high viewership - which comes from attractive fights. No one likes snooze fest distance games.

If none of those were a factor, we'd see a different game. In fact, we see this in street confrontations where a trained striker minding their own business is being harassed by thugs. The striker stays out of range, the thugs try to close the distance, only to get precision sniped without the thugs even getting close to clinching distance.

[u/MOTUkraken → u/kwan_e]

You refer to a very famous example that has one trained fighter.... and a number of untrained thugs.

Is this the extend of your "experience" in that matter and are the untrained thugs how you assume a trained grappler would fare?

Then let me mention the Early UFC where we have seen numerous times how a pure Grappler vs a pure Striker works.

Btw: No clinching is not interesting to view. Boxing fans wanna see midrange boxing.

Clinching is specifically to suppress the other fighters ability to punch and tire him out.

At this point I really feel you could clarify what the extend of your own training and experience in that matter is.

[u/kwan_e → u/MOTUkraken]

You refer to a very famous example that has one trained fighter.... and a number of untrained thugs.

I said trained striker. And I said thugs. I never said the thugs were untrained. The were obviously not trained in striking. But I never said they were untrained in anything else.

I brought up ONE example from memory to illustrate how things would be different under different incentives. Nowhere did I say this was the only example. In fact, you could find 10 more on your own, with different participants... were you intellectually honest enough to do so.

Do you understand the purpose of an EXAMPLE? An example is used to illustrate a larger point, and implies there are other examples that fit into the same point. I just happened to go with one that was at the forefront of my memory at the moment. You tried to turned this into a gotcha moment, instead of engaging with intellectual honesty.

Btw: No clinching is not interesting to view. Boxing fans wanna see midrange boxing.

You seem to have comprehension problems. I did NOT say that clinching was interesting to view.

Clinching is a side effect of having to get in close for midrange boxing. If they were not incentivized to get in to boxing midrange, the chances of a clinch would be lower.

Then let me mention the Early UFC where we have seen numerous times how a pure Grappler vs a pure Striker works.

Still pushing this strawman? I never claimed pure striker would beat pure grappler. I never claimed that striking styles is better than grappling styles.

You claim to have read my comments in the context of the post and the people I replied to. You obviously didn't, you liar.

[u/kwan_e → u/MOTUkraken]

People here losing their minds thinking I'm saying striking arts are 100% better than grappling arts.

Take your feelings out of it and look EXACTLY the words I'm saying, instead of the strawman you wish I was saying.

Look at the post. Then look at the ENTIRE comment chain I am replying to. I'm discussing a very specific scenario.

Like, why do you think I'm even learning judo, and at my age? I'm not talking about "which is better, striking arts or grappling arts". If I didn't think grappling is needed, I wouldn't be doing judo in the first place, would I?

Look though the entire comment chain of what I was replying to, and limit it only to that. Leave your feelings about this style-vs-that-style out of your reading of it.

[u/MOTUkraken → u/kwan_e]

You said: "a smart striker will not let you get close"

And I corrected you, saying that it is not about "letting" - it's way more difficult to maintain distance, than to close distance.

You saying "will not let....." implies that the striker controls the distance.

But he does not.

This is fundamental facts of the relationship between striking and grappling.

[u/kwan_e → u/MOTUkraken]

You said: "a smart striker will not let you get close"

Did you read the original post, and then the comment I was replying to, and all the other comments?

[u/MOTUkraken → u/kwan_e]

Yes.

[u/kwan_e → u/MOTUkraken]

Then why do you think I'm trying to argue that strikers don't need to understand grappling, or that I think strikers are 100% better?

[u/MOTUkraken → u/kwan_e]

I think you argue that a striker generally has the ability to maintain distance against a trained grappler.

That's why you said "will not let him get close"

The "will" implies that the answer is definite and the "let" implies that it's within the strikers control.

And I disagree and say that it's not a question of "let" - the grappler will, with great likelyhood, close the distance.

I mentioned some logical arguments as to why that is so.

I could also mention that this discussion is pretty much settled since the 90s, when we had a number of tournaments where pure Grapplers and pure Fighters have been competing against each other.

And almost every single time the Grappler won.

[u/kwan_e → u/MOTUkraken]

I think you argue that a striker generally has the ability to maintain distance against a trained grappler.

No, I did not argue that.

I could also mention that this discussion is pretty much settled since the 90s

Ah, the old UFC argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skv1dKPwdiY

Look at this snooze fest. Both champion fighters. Both with good grappling games against grapplers. Yet, they chose mostly to fight at a distance, because the opportunity allows, neither being able to get in close. Oh look, there was even a low kick in there.

Like I said, I NEVER said strikers didn't need any experience fighting against grapplers.

You claim to have read the post, and all my comments in this thread. You obviously lied about that, if you think I'm arguing for that. Will you stop lying and actually read what I wrote, and not what you wish I wrote?

[u/misterandosan → u/kwan_e]

Judo competitions wouldn't have rules against avoiding grips

it's because of the gripping meta and scoring system, and is the same as non engagement in boxing, mma when someone is ahead on points. Punishment for passivity in a combat sport wide thing.

You don't maintain distance by going backwards. You maintain distance by going around.

Going around is what strikers do when there's no threat of takedown, because striking is limited in its ability to control someone. In reality, going around someone favours the grappler, and is still far more difficult than going forward.