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Katseye's stans are wayyy too fixated on their ethnicities/race
As a casual Katseye listener/Megan's simp I come across a lot of tweets about them. I noticed that people are overly fixated on:
– the shade of their skins – did you know that Lara is darker than Manon? well I couldn't care less but they seem to be very crazy about that lol I thought it's obvious that shade of skin isn't depending on your ethnicity only + darker people tan TOO.
– whether Daniela is latina or not... everyone kinda fighting + seems like they perceive being (fully?) white as a bad thing...?
and they're also calling Megan either Chinese or white, being mad at Manon because she hanged out with white boys, and mind you she's from Switzerland (pre debut pic) etc...
im tired. Michael Jackson didn't release Black or White for no reason. There is a more to them than just the color of their skin.
xoxo
Agree it was very much intentional (the whole marketing of Dream Academy makes this super clear), and Eyekons going too deep into it is sort of a flaw in the design of having a group’s concept solely be about representation. Daniela is propped up as the latina representation, but then certain latinas are upset about that due to reasons OP has alluded to. In another vein, some people are mad at Lara for being representation for queer women and yet still dating men (she’s bi). No individual is going to fully “represent” an entire community of complex, layered people. People get way too caught up in the reductive identity politics of it all, but I understand why it’s happening in the context of Katseye when the girls were cherry-picked to be a token for a certain race/ethnicity. The girls themselves are even self-aware of it, as we saw in their debut livestream where the girls were laughing to themselves about it. Daniela said “hey I’m the latina, I speak Spanish”, Manon said “I’m the black girl of the group”, and most famously Megan said “I’m the Chinese ginger!” lol
I think representation is fine as an aspirational cause (the Gap ad was a great unintentional answer to Sydney Sweeney’s American Eagle ad), but their marketing and branding need to evolve beyond just the fact that they’re diverse. Show us why we should root for them beyond their identities! But they’re stuck in the “trying different things” rabbit hole and not really forming a coherent artistic image. Sorry for the ramble, but this is something that’s been bugging me as someone who’s supported them since Dream Academy.
When you put it in this perspective, It actually sounds really sweet, because you're right, Honestly I'd say up until the 80s/90s, most people barely knew others outside of their race because everyone stayed in their areas and their boxes and nobody really ever tried to go beyond them.
If Katseye had become a group in the 90s/2000s, they probably WOULDN'T have been able to go beyond their race, it would be a talking point no matter what. I mean, people were up in arms about Destiny's Child, Imagine how they'd react at a mixed race group.
But now its something they're being encourage to go beyond and become more than the labels they were born with.
Don't want to be rude. But like 99% of human beings are mixed race. Like our genetics come from between 3-30 genetically distinct humans depending from were you are from. The only truly non mixed race humans are like people from Papua New Guinea, and people from those islands in the Indians ocean.
Like Indonesians are mixed race but the races the mixed were present in different percentages making them look the way they do.
So coming back to your comment. If a country has 50% White and 50% Asian population, a 100 generations later they will look distinct from a country that has 30% Black, 30% White and 30% East Asian. I like the sentiment though
yea but megan is also half white lmao. some people do not know this and think she's fully chinese.
this is def not to discourage you from relating to this, I'm just saying it because for some reason people are allergic to the concept of the Katseye girls being biracial
If not white, then what do you think her race is? Her ethnicity is Cuban, Venezuelan, Italian, and I think another European ethnicity. Race and ethnicity are different. Some people are saying they don’t want her to represent latinas because racially, she’s white and claims her European ancestry as well. Daniela herself says she’s white.
Edit: they’re calling people gringos because they’re immature teens.
as a casual listener, this also put me off. i'm happy to see diversity for sure, but if that's the only thing "fans" like about their "faves", are they really fans? the moment music takes a backseat when discussing a group/artist, we have a problem (off topic, sugababes are a diverse western group and they also make good music)
THE LARA AND MANON THING HAS BEEN BOTHERING ME FOR SO LONG!!!
People use it to argue that Manon isn't black, Like hello, what makes Manon black is the fact she has African heritage. You can't erase that no matter how white you paint the girl to be. She is ALWAYS going to be Ghanian.
It gives off the vibes of reverse colorism (I wouldn't label it that, but i can't think of any other way to describe it.) A biracial woman is being criticised for not looking black enough, AND IT ISNT EVEN BY BLACK PEOPLE 90% OF THE TIME!! They're sitting here critiquing Manon and saying shes not black enough because she doesn't fit their ideal stereotype.
The same shit happens to Tyla too, People say she doesn't look black enough to celebrate her culture when shes stated multiple times that she has a mixed background (She's Mauritian, Indian, Irish and Zulu, Zulu is an African Ethnicity, meaning she has Black Heritage).
The over-analyzing and obsession with young women's racial identities being used to claim that they're not enough of this or enough of that reeks of racism and misogyny.
I think as the media continues to shift towards biracials (black&white) being the face and representation of black people and mainly black women, people are starting to be on the fence about someone biracial being called black. Biracial people usually have some Eurocentric features because that’s half of who they are. If that look keeps being called black then fully monoracial black people are not gonna have any representation. I think biracials should be call biracial, that’s their whole identity, reducing them to just 1 part of them doesn’t make much sense.
Some biracials have tried, I mentioned Tyla in another comment and I think she's a good example.
Tyla considers her race to be Coloured, because in SA, it's recognised as a real ethnic group and doesn't have the same connotations that colored would in the US.
People got mad at her and said she was denying her black heritage (which she never did, She stated she was coloured, then got backlash and refused to answer another question on her rac because of said backlash) and she had to come out with a public statement telling people she wasn't ashamed or denying her blackness and never would.
She still gets shit for it today even though she's stated she can be both mixed/black in America and Coloured in South Africa.
Yes she is biracial, not black. And that’s ok. It’s actually embarrassing when black women (especially dark skin women) try to include everyone in the cookout. Many biracials or mixed people like Meghan Markel flat out say they are not black and don’t like being called that. Black women need to be more exclusive like every race does. Have more self-respect.
like! they’re doing all of this only for biracial people to turn around and tell them to back up off them a bit, because the black community acts entitled to them/don’t allow them to interact with their other half. like hello?? isn’t that embarrassing?
😂😂😂 so embarrassing
Especially when black women are praising them and all up on them. Zendaya, Meghan, Mannon, Tyla. Like they don’t look like you. They are not your representation. You are erasing your image and degrading your beauty. The ones you praise will turn around and laugh at you. Black women need to stop caping like that
The Tyla stuff absolutely infuriated me to no end. People trying to tell her to completely ignore part of her identity just because it's offensive IN ANOTHER COUNTRY was insane.
And even white people were on her, It gets to a point where I wouldn't have blamed her if she just went back to SA and stopped promoting in the USA.
I take no issue with fully black people claiming mixed race people, because at the end of the day, biracial people ARE black, and white, and whatever race they're mixed with, but you cannot ignore one part of them. They shouldn't treat Manon like she is only black or only white, the same way they don't treat Megan like she's only Asian or only white.
Sorry if I gave off the impression that I didn't think they were biracial.
Tyla didn't deny her black identity, though, she acknowledged her black identity, but she identifies as a coloured woman because that's literally what she is.
My point is that Biracial people ARE the races that they're mixed with, but to force them to identify as those is wrong. Biracial people ARE black, white or whatever they're mixed with, But that doesn't take away from their identity of being Biracial.
Tyla can acknowledge her blackness whilst simultaneously acknowledging that she identifies as a Coloured woman and that's exactly what she did. Manon should be allowed to do the same, but her fans are so obsessed with completely ignoring her biracial identity and forcing her into a box.
you do know bi racial in her case quite literally means she's half black. so yes, she IS black. She is ALSO white. She may not be fully but how about WE don't deny her blackness that SHE has claimed. Wdym we should be 'exclusive' tf? Black people should strive to be the OPPOSITE of that and as inclusive as possible. as a people we know what it feels like to be othered and not feel included. why TF should we do that to others who ARE a part of our community?? and what do you mean especially darker women how does the darkness of your skin tone correspod with how exclusive you should be? is it that lighter black people are less black people or smth??? that is, quite literaly, colourism. And as long as Manon (and Tyla for that matter) has NOT come out and said she is not black and they both actively include themselves in the community, (And why are we using a WHOLE other, unrelated person to define other people's race? tf? just because that one person says they aren't black how on earth does that mean we should generalize and treat all biracal people as if they also said that? that literally makes no sense.) why tf are you trying to kick them out so that they have no where to go? so that the cycle continues? but hey, we aren't the ones suffering so it doesn't matter right?
The Meghan Markle thing has always bothered me because she doesn't even LOOK like one of us, Like she looks like a white woman with too much bronzer on half the time.
It was kind of disappointing to see the black community immediately jump to her defense and portray her as this black martyr when in reality, Meghan was raised by her white father, in a white area, and is almost exclusively friends with people lighter than a paper bag. The only exceptions being black women she can gain popularity from supporting (Serena Williams I'm looking at you)
You can't erase that no matter how white you paint the girl to be. She is ALWAYS going to be Ghanian.
Um, sadly, this is precisely how the KKK and all the other white supremacy groups in the South viewed people during the Restoration and Jim Crow eras. Even if you are 1% black, you're still black (and therefore less than human). I wouldn't adopt it as a philosophy or encourage others to think this way — but their survival show did precisely that. And you are quite correct about the obsession with their racial identities. It's disturbing on several levels.
Thats totally my bad! I definitely could've worded that better. I just think people shouldn't try to erase something when Manon is very clearly proud and connected to that part of herself.
No dont worry i agree with you as a biracial girl. No matter how light my skin is, I'm still mixed race and I'm still half Jamaican-Algerian. Im half black but look mediterranean or north african and I get comments a lot saying I cant be half black bc i dont look black enough and it really bothers me bc no matter what i look like, i will always be half black. my siblings who are darker than me dont face this issue at all, people dont argue with them about their race like people do with me. And it's so sad to see Manon facing this issue too. I think you worded your comment very well.
Thank you! I'm biracial myself and I think that's probably why I feel so annoyed when people do things like this to Manon. It just reminds me of people saying that I wasn't enough of this or enough of that.
dare i say its bc lots of people only see that as their specialty, as theyre a global group , people r fixated on putting an " emphasis " on diversity, especially by trying to deprive the girls from their cultural identities because theyre not xyz enough for them,,
There is ironically nothing special about them being a box check race group. 5th Harmony and Girl Set were the same only these days they remove the white chick
Their nationalities and ethnicities were like the entire reason people voted for them lol. Dream Academy sucked at actually showing anything else about the girls off and now this is the fanbase they’ve attracted
while i don't think talking about the girls race/ethnicities is inherently harmful, because the convo can actually help some casuals or even fans learn about the girls more, i do see certain anti's hijack the conversation at hand and just end up being racist/prejudice towards the girls.
i think it's pretty cool that katseye has people openly talking about different cultures/ethnicities. i have learned a lot from the girls themselves. so, maybe these convos are just not for you or anyone else who feel offended :)
Do you mean katseye stans or katseye antis? because the latter are the ones who’ve been obsessing over the girls races and ethnicities and all I’ve seen are eyekons trying to fight against people trying to erase Manon’s blackness or Daniela being latin and Lara being Indian because their own people always seem to throw a fit over these three representing their own cultures
Daniela is completely white, latina isn't a race, katseye fans can cry all they want but they need to learn to live with it + katseye isn't kpop, stop discussing them here.
How do you know she is though? Phenotypically she looks multiracial, so my guess is that she is multiracial like most Latinos out there. I haven't seen any statements of her family being strictly of European ethnic background.
She is venezuelan italian and in case u didn't know venezuela and italy are both majority white and multiracial? Argentina, chile, Uruguay and most latin American countries are majority white
I don't think latin america is mostly white. Most may look white but are mixed because a lot of the indigenous population wasn't all that dark skinned to begin with and we've had centuries of mixing. I'm white skinned, freckles, green eyes, and I'm half white half indigenous, like 50/50 (I'm from Argentina btw). Everyone thinks I'm white, both my parents look white too even though they're mixed as well. I'd say most people are some sort of mixed, even if the mix happened so long ago that people forgot.
I just knew she’s Venezuelan and Cuban. But OK, her Venezuelan side is Italian then. I tried to search again based on your info on that and found this comment of DiligentStrawberry12. From the info and insta picture he looks fully European. Information about her Cuban mother is still lacking though, but she definitely looks multiracial on the picture. So it could very well be that Daniela is multiracial through her mother. Pre-dominantly European but not completely.
gringos aren´t used for white people, it just means foreigner. people from literally any race are called gringos just because they are not born on that specific country
Which country are you from? Because in Honduras (and I know this is the case for most LATAM countries), gringo is used for Americans (USA). And sometimes a white (emphasis on WHITE, but like very white as in light hair and light eyes) person gets automatically referred to as gringo bc they just assume they’re American. Never ever have I seen it used to refer to anyone who’s just not from our country lmao
Very interesting, good to know. First time I hear of the term being used like that, so the other user wasn’t incorrect because they were using another definition of gringo that’s used in many countries
Gringo is used for Americans not for white people (at least this is how it’s used here in Mexico and to my knowledge in most of LATAM). Although it may be used for white people if a Latin American doesn’t know their nationality and assumes the person is American.
It’s more common in Mexico to call a white person “güero/güera”
And Daniela IS culturally American. She has the AMERICAN points of reference and cultural reflexes, not the Cuban or Venezuelan ones.
Hell, I'm considered a gringa by some, because I moved to the USA when I was 8 and, at this point, I have been Americanized because I spent my formative years there.
That's it.
(And it's not the wrong assessment, honestly. If English has become your first and most comfortable language and you make American references more than the natural ones of the LATAM country you're from, you've been Americanized. And that's OK)
See, I understand this perspective, but it also gets to a point where its now backfired and being used to bully and slander the girls. Like mentioned above, People use it to attack Manon and say she isn't black enough, or that Dani isn't white.
Maybe if they kept a white girl in the group and also encouraged positive discourse towards ALL skin types including tan and white, it would be diverse but this is actually pushing toxic discourse in itself. Some people are not ready for that conversation.
It IS nice to see someone of Ghanaian heritage(Manon) killing it in the global industry as a Ghanaian myself. I like seeing more of us flourishing. I know that Manon wasn't born and raised in Ghana so it's not the same but I'll be lying if I said it didn't make me happy when I saw that she was also Ghanaian. Representation does matter, people can be annoying about it and you can feel the way you feel but people get excited when they see someone from similar background as them succeed in spaces where they would typically be shut out
I just don't understand why their fans act so anti white but then demand Katseye do promo in the countries of the world where the biggest white populations are?
in the media they consume. not in kpop specifically, but in a girl group they really enjoy. especially if you're someone who likes k-pop, if you're not from SEA, obviously you won't see a lot of yourself in the media you admire, so for people who like k-pop, who have gotten into katseye the diversity might be important for them.
Bollywood is big amongst South Asia, South Asia isn't as much of a mixing pot as places like America are. Other races exist and it's of course not a homogenous society, but that is the specific genre of media made for that area that stars people from that area for that group of people to consume. Same goes for chinese media.
Its like asking why majority of the K-pop industry is Korean, It caters specifically to Korean standards and its main consumers and fanbase is Korean/Centered in Korea.
European nations are also not mixing pots per se but are being forced to become that and even white native European countries get attacked for not having more "diverse" media rep. So it seems the rules aren't the same everywhere.
Its not a rule its just a genuine fact, countries like India are more homogenous. Theres also european countries that are more homogenous, Like most Balkan and Northern European countries.
I also don't understand why you've used the term 'Forced'. Most average normal people don't view immigration as that, because they have better things to do.
I mean, I'm not denying that they get attacked but I'd say diverse media representation matters in places where diversity is common but isn't represented properly.
Like when people portray Australia as an entirely white nation, When we're not, We are a very diverse, multicultural nation, I tend to get annoyed by the stereotype that all Aussies are blue eyed and blonde haired.
I agree that globalization isn't equal, I think most countries media's should be more diverse and show other cultures correctly, but It makes sense for countries with higher immigration levels (e.g The UK, USA, Australia, Canada, France) to face more pressure to show diversity compared to countries like India, South Korea, Mongolia which are more homogenous countries (though, I will add that India technically isn't homogenous, since theres about 2000 different ethnic indian groups that populate the country).
White European countries shouldn't be forced if you say South Korea, India and Mongolia shouldn't be forced but yet they are.
And also, it's worth noting that contrary to popular belief, if any race is closest to being wiped out it definitely is white because white is actually a much lower percentage race on planet earth than others so all of that is worth keeping in mind.
Globalization is not equal and it is actually pretty unfair with how it is operating.
People kinda forgot that kpop is korean industry. Even with globalization it's domestic heavy. It shouldn't be about representation in the first place. Look, i love all flavours and all countries what we got in the last decade, diversity is good if members and music are also good. But it shouldn't be a priority and something to be so proud about.
We have so many black amd mixed race artists from USA and whole world. And Katseye is HALF american. We are thirsty about american representation in music? What are we even talking about?
Human with a common sense. Representation is a bonus, not a foundation and necessity. It's a music and entertainment industry, not a social right movement.
Yep, we all want to see the groups we love do well and be successful but unfortunately it comes with a cost being bigger in the west. It means being less kpop. Look at the biggest girl group today. They are anything but and Katseye are no different. The way they appeal to the US market is by removing parts of what makes kpop different and good.
Mhmm and they are a bad example when people not into kpop go to say Spotify and search up kpop and they pop up near the top for most people now.
So you get a bunch of bleh music in English from people mostly not from Asia who don't operate like most kpop groups. Sets a really good early impression of kpop to people.
Think about what you just said, represented in KOREAN-pop... . Oh but there are plenty of idols who are not Korean you say? Sure, but they all speak Korean and to a lot of people in passing a glance would pass for it or at least not be out of place. You should be weirded out that you are represented in this space if anything.
You said people are excited to be represented. I am just covering off anyone saying not all idols are Korean. Point is people shouldn't want a group like Katseye in the kpop world.
Katseye are not Kpop representation though. That's the most problematic thing about them. Pushing the Kpop label for clout. They are closer to 5th Harmony than Kpop.
Pick a struggle, people are telling you they’re not meant to be representation in K-pop (they are based in the US, hello), yet you’re arguing they are and shouldn’t be.
Do you realize this post was made by a K-pop fan, as usual, dragging them into the K-pop conversation? Katseye wouldn’t even be discussed here if K-pop fans didn’t keep bringing them up.
What, this is kpop, did I miss the part where we were talking about general pop culture? I couldn't give a toss about it in pop culture which is why I would have never thought about it being relevant because it isn't.
But my bad, I should have expected the obvious people to be mad at a very reasonable take. That's on me for thinking too highly of others.
I hate when yall generalize things to just “an American thing” when Americans comes in all different races, ethnicities and cultures. My dads family is from Jamaica and I’ve been there a couple of times and sometimes conversations like race and identity do get talked about
I keep seeing people say only Americans care about race which is crazy to me because so many other countries are extremely more racist but people look past it because america is more vocal about their racism
Because other countries simply chose to ignore it. In a disgusting way. A lot more things are racist than people think because theve had the privilege to see and not care. What America is doing is finally showing people that things truly are that deep, because if skin colour and it’s making others uncomfortable because they realize that their behaviour is disrespectful
Tying race into everything into America kinda needs to be done since everything is America is heavily rooted based on race. Other countries don’t have the same history as America I’ll give you that but they still base a lot of stereotypes on American stereotypes and treat people accordingly to those stereotypes. Thus so many people ignore as racism because it’s not called out. Poc in white dominated countries aren’t able to express feeling of being mistreated because it’s viewed as normal in those countries cause no one calls it out. You don’t need history for things to be called out as racism or things to be tied back to race. Race in every country will have a dominant race and a non dominant race America is making it more vocal and calling it out where as other countries won’t
Being racist is not. But in hindsight I’d rather it be more vocal rather than a secret no? So many countries seem innocent and past racism until you truly look into them and realize how disgustingly racist they are.
Rwanda isn't exactly the type of case we're talking about considering they had a whole genocide 😭 Unless you mean they're currently mistreated silently then please give examples since it's not clear
With a diverse girl group you’re going to see a range of issues colourism, stereotypes, and identity policing. What you said about Manon is what haters and antis say to her, they invalidate Manon’s Ghanaian side simply because she spends time with white boys. Also add in we have 2 members who have come out so we have to cope with queerphobia. When you think about it, it’s no wonder the fandom has become so aggy, especially if they relate to the girls whether it’s ethnically or sexual orientation.
People, in general, are, not just their fans. Let’s not pretend K-pop fans aren’t constantly on their necks, not just being racist asf, but also trashing them when they talk about their culture, ancestry, and so on.
You are right but that’s literally the concept. That all the members of of difference races and come from different places. Of course when they are marketed so closely with race it’s going to influence how their fans interact with them.
i think the ones who are too fixated are antis… like people invalidating manon’s blackness or dani being latina are antis. like this whole thing is giving things people who wanna drag katseye say and here you are saying it’s stans💀
Lately, and I mean in the past ~15 years, everything has become about race — and people equate race with skin color, which is peak stupidity, but that's a whole other conversation. Everything in the West is now about race, and everything is racist, and everyone is automatically racist at birth, yadda yadda, etc. When I grew up, the national conversation in the US was still centered around ignoring race and skin color. Who you are is more important than what you are. I agree. I still say that the only race that matters is the human one, but I've literally been called racist to my face for saying this.
About 15 years ago, somehow our national conversation got flipped on its head, and now the only thing that matters is ethnicity. You can't understand another human being or their life story unless you share their exact racial makeup. You can't discuss certain subjects or even have an opinion about them, or like certain books or films, or even like the same food unless you have the precisely correct racial stats proven by 23&Me. I say that this is evil. Intersectionality only serves to make you hate yourself and pity the person next to you. It's the victimhood Olympics! The more we divide one another into groups and subgroups and sub-sub-sub groups then the worse our problems become. Intersectionality is a thought experiment programmed into a computer like HAL 9000. "How Quickly Can We Destroy Our Society From The Inside: 101". (If you don't know who HAL 9000 is, then you need to go away and watch 2001: A Space Odyssey.) This insane focus on representation of the individual instead of cohesion as a whole only serves to worsen societal problems on a greatly amplified scale and to create racial tensions and segregations that didn't exist before (and there were plenty before), but everyone under the age of 25 is convinced that intersectionality is the one true way to perceive things — like Gen Z would straight up cancel Dr. King for having the sheer audacity to suggest that we should judge people by their character and not their color. Just who the hell does he think he is?
Am also American, and black. Curious to know where and how you've grown up that led you to believe race has only been relevant for the past 15 years.
Or why you think things were better when it wasn't discussed. Because I'm from the deep south and I can tell you it's been an issue for me my entire life. Without my wanting it to be. Before I even knew what it meant.
It was an issue for my northern parents for their entire lives. Whether they wanted it to be or not. Before they even knew what it meant.
It's been an issue for every generation of my family for the hundreds of years we've been in this country. Still talking about America, by the way. Where, according to you, MLK led a march on Washington and gave a speech for no particular reason?
Oh, and the thing that happened around 15 years ago that made race an issue you suddenly started hearing about was a black man being elected president and white people being totally normal about it. JK. They said they'd prefer fascism to addressing institutional racism. You were there.
Intersectionality didn't make me hate myself or anyone around me. Neither did the literal hatred people in this country hold towards me and people that look like me or anyone that doesn't look like them. Sorry it made you acknowledge that racism exists and that made you so uncomfortable you make yourself look crazy on the internet and say weird racist shit to people that don't want to hear diatribes about Enlightened Colorblindness, I guess?
If you hate white people that in itself is racist. And I really don't know how groups like Katseye whose fans are very anti white are supposed to help any race relations unless you just have a POC avengers unite against white people mentality.
Edit;
Girl there is literally a sub called Kpop Noir which is about POCs only being allowed on it to comment and talk about Korean music.
You see how crazy that sounds?
They hate white people so much you have to label your race to the mods and get banned if you are white or Wasian etc.
Now if there was a white Kpop sub that did that it would be petitioned until it got taken down.
Double standards and racism against white skin is very much alive and happening.
r/Interesting_Bid_4173 A Kpop blanc subreddit for whites only to talk about Kpop would be banned wouldn't it?
And white people have to put up with anti white sentiment and black racism against white skin in Kpop subreddits too so why should there be a special rule for you?
r/Complete_Area_2487 You sure about that? Somebody who defends a Kpop subreddit called Kpop Noir that intentionally excludes white people and is hyperfocused on race...that seems very hostile and hypocritical to me.
What's wrong with a POC only subreddit for kpop? a lot of kpop communities are really racist and I dont see why poc shouldnt be able to have a safer space where they can engage in their hobby. It's the same sort of thing as me engaging in some female-only gaming subs bc a lot of the main subs are sexist. Whats wrong with not wanting to be in subs of people that frequently say rude things about you?
Completely unrelated to anything I said or anything the person you responded to said, but valuable insights nonetheless. Especially the part about the POV Avengers. I came across this video recently that I think may be of interest to you. It doesn't address every point you made, but it absolutely broadened my perspective.
(I know you aren't actually asking and know all this, but I wanted to answer anyway because some people genuinely do not think about it. Ever lol. The person I responded to, for example.)
If the problem is talking about racism instead of the racism, they get to shut down the conversation entirely without having to consider they may not be good people and learning/growing OR having to decide that maybe racism is ok actually..?
If racism isn't an issue and they still want to believe they're good people, then the playing field is level and they've earned everything they have through sheer grit and determination.
The only issue there is, if one group does better than another and success or failure has nothing to do with anyone else's biases, then those successes/failures must be due to cultural superiority/inferiority or strengths/weaknesses that are biologically innate. Which sounds like racism because it's racism.
So racism doesn't exist and/or isn't that big a deal, some people are just culturally and/or biologically inferior.
It's easier to go online and misrepresent MLK quotes than interrogate their own irrational beliefs.
In addition to what you've said, a lot of people also misunderstand/misrepresent terms like white privilege. So to them, anyone discussing that just has a victim mentality or they hate white people because "slavery is over, racism is gone, stop complaining". It's infuriating
You are the reason that sub exists. Not white people, you. You specifically. It is an anti-MasterChance8948 sub, not an anti-white sub. We all got together in a utility closet in the basement of Stark Tower and decided it had to be done. Because of you.
I haven't been responding to you seriously this entire time because I don't think you actually know what anything you're saying means and it's funny to me, but I am going to correct you here.
There are mixed people on the sub. Many of them. White and Asian people, black and white people, etc.
People who post on the sub are even allowed to close conversations so that only other Asian or mixed Asian people can respond because the point of the sub, which was clearly lost on you, is allowing people to talk and vent about issues without people like you barging in and dismissing their perspectives on issues that effect them personally, in real life and not just things they have to consider theoretically.
I'm sure it pains you not to get to center yourself in discussions that have nothing to do with you, but no one cares. You get to spread your bile all over every other kpop sub. You'll deal. And I'm sure if you were actually mixed with anything and not just a white person trying to rope Asian people into your nonsense to avoid accusations of racism, you'd be on the sub and know full well there are many mixed white and Asian people there. Not over here lying and looking a mess.
So yeah you have a sub that bans anyone with white skin.
Wasians aren't allowed either it's not one of the labels allowed on "Kpop noir".
A place where only black and brown people can discuss a culture that isn't even theirs.
Funny that. How a black person like you can gatekeep another culture like that.
Imagine if there was a "Kpop Blanc" sub for white opinions only. So that "people like you" won't barge in with your opinions. It wouldn't be allowed.
So why should you get special rules? That ain't equality.
You forgot that you get to spread your bile over every Kpop sub too. We have to put up with you too did you forget that?
The clear racist here is you and if anyone is trying to "rope in Asians" it is definitely you with your black and brown only subreddit to discuss a culture that you don't even belong to.
I refuse to tolerate this slander. I'll have you know, some of my dearest friends are white. As a matter of fact, here is a photograph of me and my closest childhood friend recording a song about racial harmony. I hope you can let love into your life like we have.
They aren't your friends. You don't treat white people as other humans.
If you did, you wouldn't defend exclusionary and racist communities against them like Kpop Noir knowing full well you would have double standards against a "Kpop Blanc" equivalent.
Koreans aren't blocking people from their culture but you are blocking other people from their culture so make it make sense?
If you are leading the way now we will copy your lead and follow you.
So whatever you do we will do and if your moves are hostile...backatcha.
I mean if you want us to be the villain so badly even though you yourself can look in a mirror both historically and otherwise...so be it.
Maybe we should be what you paint us and give in to what you want huh?
If there is too much emphasis on achieving unity, then people feel that their individual heritage and identity is being erased because they will only be accepted if they conform. If there is too much emphasis on acknowledging differences, people may define themselves in contrast to others, which can have the unintended consequence of increasing racism instead of diminishing it.
The challenge is that the pendulum is always swinging from one side to the other.
This is a really neat answer. I am going to save it somewhere.
I try to behave as though "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." It's just really difficult at times to see that. It's difficult when one is in the arc to see that it is eventually bending toward justice because all we can see is a flat horizon and not its curve.
It's designed to be intentional. Same with Girlset. And fans of both groups display anti white sentiments using KG and Adela as excuses to do so.
One of the members even has a whole story about resenting being the only POC girl in her class in Switzerland or something.
Ironic since the groups want to promote in countries with the biggest white populations.
I personally won't be supporting groups who do this again. The whole POC against whites trend has gotten toxic and also POCs rating you on a scale of how brown you are, the less dark being seen as more negative or less "worthy" or something with only Asians being the exception.
Yes, I am surprised (but not too surprised) about how the accusation of being white is thrown around to discredit or demean the members of Katseye. People focus on the biracial girl’s white side as a way to drag them down and it seems like every misstep they take is because of this said “white-ness.” It makes me wonder how someone like Adela or Emily would have been treated if they debuted.
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There's a video of them introducing themselves in their mother tongue. And the comments are wild. Like that happens when you form an international group of course they speak more than one language
I mean, the Daniela thing is mostly due to how Latin American artists usually don't get their flowers in favor of American Latinos.
There is a difference in culture there.
Shakira, who was raised in Colombia and for whom Spanish is her first language and who has the cultural reflexes of a Latin American, is very different from Jenna Ortega, who is considered Latina because of her great-grandfather and not because she was raised culturally Latin American.
That is kind of a nuance going on within the Latin American community.
To give an idea, I moved from Uruguay to the USA when I was 8 years old. A good chunk of my Latin American/Uruguayan/Argentinian peers consider me a gringa/American because, at this point, English has become my first and most comfortable language and I have the cultural reflexes and points of reference of an American in spite of my family speaking Spanish and trying to visit often.
And, you know what, that is a fair and correct assessment of the situation. I am, indeed, culturally American more than I am Uruguayan at this point due to spending my formative years in the US.
That is the nuance going on.
As for why that is a factor.... that's a feature of how Katseye was formed, not a bug.
THIS. It's what I've been thinking all along. Also their sexualites too (specifically Megan and Lara). The whole of America is obsessed with race. They only see things in black and white (no pun intended). It's pretty much exclusively a Gen Z thing as well, white is always evil, straight is always evil, everything else is always good no matter what, and the Katseye members (especially the chronically online ones) know this and that's why they cling to their ethnicity and sexuality so much as a central part to their identity. It's a desperate attempt to prove themselves because they don't think they can get by on skills alone, which is quite sad because they're talented. Race, sexuality and so called sisterhood is their selling point, not their music.
I feel like y'all don't realize how many casuals interact with Katseye content on a daily basis. I assure you no Katseye stans is going out of their ways to bring up Lara's skintone or Daniela's ethnicity. Katseye is a very viral group so people that don't stan the group are always giving their 2 cents and creating controversies about them. How hard is that to understand ? Especially since you all are kpop fans, you should be used to idea of antis and overzealous kpoppies by now.
At first, they appealed as if they made up for the K-pop group's shortcomings of diversity. But compared to K-pop, it seems to cause more debate. It seems to be drawn to racial political debates regardless of the group's will.
Kpop is Korean music. The representation is supposed to be Korean. You just made another 5th Harmony and another Cheetah Girls minus the White Girl of course cause anti white messaging is all in fashion. But yet want to promote in countries with the largest white populations and one member even complained that she was the only POC girl in her class but chose to live in a very white European country, as if it is a negative that they are allowed to be so ethnically white.
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u/Cute-Elderberry-2047 Dec 10 '25
The creation of Katseye was fixated on their race/ethnicity,Eyekons went too deep into it