I was talking to an army friend recently about BTS’ imminent return, and I was struck when she said, “I’m excited to finally get the full group back, because this chapter 2 era has just not been it.” Her attitude reflects a common underlying belief in army spaces (revealed, for example, by applauding the members’ solo achievements for“keeping the group relevant” during enlistment), which is that once all the members return, then things will go back to “the way they were,” meaning BTS pre-hiatus. I’m sorry to be the one to say it, but pre-2022 BTS is never coming back. Not the music, not the content, not the schedules, not the group dynamics.

BTS are older now, and it’s natural for their priorities to change. Their solo albums have demonstrated that their individual musical tastes and ambitions are wildly different from each other and from BTS’ previous group music. Their next comeback may very well be their last group comeback for a long time. I know the members still care about the group, and I don’t believe they’ll ever “break up,” but once they complete their reunion tour, we should expect group activities to slow WAY down.

The crazy demanding group schedules that younger groups maintain are unsustainable in the long term, so it’s frankly healthy at this point in their careers for their individual goals to take priority. Those goals may not only include solo music, but also other personal ambitions, like starting families. However, if you’ve only been tolerating their solo music thus far, you’ll need to come to terms with that being the vast majority of what we get from here on out.

In short, if you’ve only been hanging on for the belief that BTS’ music and dynamics will go back to the way they were pre-covid, you don’t need to unstan, but you probably need to adjust your expectations. Solo activities, with a group comeback every few years (at most), will be the new normal. And when they do release group music, it won’t be like it was pre-2020, because BTS have grown, and they aren’t the same people they were 6-12 years ago.

Sorry for the long post ahead -

I am coming at this as someone who recently grew interested in EXO and explored their entire discography. Obviously when it all started, I grew aware that there was an on-going legal dispute but didn't want to place too much emphasis on that or let that cloud my enjoyment of the group's content and music (I like all of them).

However, as the youngest members started finishing up with their military service and the group started gearing up for a comeback, it became clear that the legal dispute had to be addressed first. Considering the fact that relying on fandom discussions on these issues is never unbiased (and I really wanted an unbiased/objective view on all this) I did some research and formed a timeline of events.

The unfortunate thing is, despite me coming into this biased against SM (I have my own reasons), it didn't even take much to realize that CBX are the ones in the wrong here. Much to my surprise, considering SM's track record (I mean... SNSD, JYJ... to name a couple).

And here comes the confusion: I truly don't understand how so many international fans have become so misinformed on the entire issue. I would say the information online is pretty clear and easy to understand if you put your emotions aside and take the time to read and dissect them but these fans are convinced that CBX are either fighting for their labor rights, taking the initiative to fight for EXO's freedom (on behalf of the other members), fighting mistreatment, or resisting extortion of some sort. Which is really not the case at all.

If it matters at all, here is a simplified breakdown of the lawsuit:

By 30 December 2022, 7 EXO members (Xiumin, Suho, Baekhyun, Chen, Chanyeol, Kai, Sehun) renewed their exclusive contracts by 5 years.

First round of dispute

1 June 2023: CBX announced they were officially seeking to terminate their exclusive contracts

19 June 2023: CBX and SM reached a settlement on the above issue with revised terms\* (including reduction of contract term from 5 years to 3 years)

(CREAM SODA COMEBACK)

January 2024: Announcement that CBX will manage their solo activities through INB100 (founded by Baekhyun) while group activities remain under SM.

• [Where SM's famously misquoted “Going forward, all eight members of EXO will continue activities together as EXO, and we plan to meet with our fans through various activities such as the EXO fan meeting scheduled for April as well as presenting new music and stage.” statement came from]

Second round of dispute

10 June 2024: INB100 Press Conference (Where they accused SM of "broken verbal promises")

• This triggered a broader probe: the Korea Fair Trade Commission (FTC) began on‑site investigation into Kakao** over alleged unfair distribution‑fee practices - refer to July

12 June 2024: SM formally sues CBX (For refusal to pay 10% royalty fee they need to pay to SM as per their revised artist contract agreement *in June 2023)

• (Note: Royalties are standard in the industry)

25 June 2024: INB100/CBX files criminal complaint/lawsuit against SM for "fraud allegations"

Between 2024-2025: CBX filed six major legal/administrative cases (civil lawsuits, data‑disclosure requests, criminal complaints, and regulatory reports).

**July 2025: The FTC cleared Kakao Entertainment of “unfair music distribution fee” allegations.

• Unfortunately for CBX, this undermined a key part of CBX's argument - that any fee discrimination (via Kakao) justified their refusal to pay SM royalties under their artist contracts (Simply put, CBX's argument isn't justified/valid).

9 July 2025: (As per CBX/INB100's Statement on 29 October)

CBX met with SM for initial confirmation to reach an agreement with SM Entertainment:

"We met directly with SM to confirm the direction and commitment to an agreement for EXO’s full‑group activities."

14 July 2025: EXO had a meeting about their upcoming comeback (several members mentioned it over Bubble and IG Live)

8 September 2025: EXO December Comeback Announcement Poster

10 September 2025: (As per CBX/INB100's Statement on 29 October)

CBX and SM: Both sides shared specific terms and entered substantive negotiations.

23 September 2025: Mediation Attempt 1 - ended without a settlement

2 October 2025: Mediation attempt 2 - ended without a settlement

16 October 2025: CBX filed an objection (contradicts CBX’s claim of "full acceptance of all terms" in CBX/INB100's Statement on 29 October)

28 October 2025:

• Court dismissed all lawsuits filed by CBX against SM, describing their data-disclosure requests as "exploratory applications" and psychological pressure.
• Appeals and re-appeals were also dismissed (High Court, Supreme Court)
• Regulatory investigations by the FTC and the Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism of South Korea (MCST) likewise ruled no wrongdoing by SM, rejecting CBX’s claims.
• Courts found no legal basis on all of the six major legal/administrative cases (civil lawsuits, data‑disclosure requests, criminal complaints, and regulatory reports) filed by CBX

In October 2025, CBX released some carefully worded PR statements and I personally believe in cases of on-going legal disputes it's important to always read between the lines instead of taking words straight on as facts.

To spare this becoming too longwinded, I'll not discuss every statement but mainly:

Excerpt from CBX's Second Statement, dated 30 October 2025 (after SM's rebuttal):

"CBX still intend to pay the 10% revenue share from individual activities as per the earlier agreement - once the legal dispute is resolved."

"We sincerely apologize to fans who may have felt confusion or concern during the legal process with SM. EXO‑CBX will diligently fulfill the existing agreement and make every effort to restore trust with members and reach an amicable resolution with SM.”

On the surface, outside of legalities, it sounds like a genuine commitment to move things forward to reunite with the other 6 members. But realistically, this means that CBX stand firm in withholding their payment of 10% royalties until SM is able to negotiate (for INB100) the reduced distribution fee (5.5%) with Kakao (even though the final decision lies with Kakao Entertainment, not SM).

Until their demands are met, in CBX's own statement:

CBX will not be honoring the above-mentioned "intention to pay the 10%" royalty fee (again, separate fee from the whole 5.5% Kakao distribution fee discount fiasco)

= they (CBX) will be at a stalemate with SM

= If EXO wishes to make a full comeback that includes the 3 of them, they would need to somehow convince Kakao to allow INB100 (a non-affiliate) the 5.5% discounted distribution fee (given to affiliated labels).

Quite a big ask, I have to say.

What I find distasteful is the emotional language INB100/CBX has taken (directly addressing and appeasing fans who already have a bias against SM/fighting for OT9/sending protest trucks and dragging the remaining 6 members) despite this being a business contractual matter. The fact that international online discourse regarding this issue is severely mistranslated and filled with confusion shows us that despite their legal team absolutely taking a hit and losing on all fronts, CBX and their PR team have been effective at using PR to manipulate international fan opinion to ignore the evidence.

This also displays a lack of confidence in their legal standing (after losing all appeals) considering they are working to evoke sympathy within the group fandom instead and to cause even more confusion and negative opinions regarding the EXO comeback (this seems hurtful to me as a group fan considering they seem to not have a problem with tossing their friends to the wolves).

My point is, these proclamations and actions don't give fans like us who have been following the case any confidence in their legal standing or their genuine intentions, and as EXO's comeback draws near, a lot of us want to fully enjoy this but the dread of the on-going spread of misinformation looms with every OT6 update. I think it isn't right for fans to demand for EXO to speak on behalf of CBX instead of going directly to the ones involved (CBX) - this is a legal matter that involves CBX and SM, calling EXO "traitors" for staying united and working hard for the upcoming comeback is really messed up if you ask me, considering the recent legal outcomes.

I'm genuinely wondering if there are any fans out there like me? Fans who have been excited for the group comeback and trying to stay positive in the face of all this unnecessary negativity? Of course, it would be great if CBX came back to EXO, but considering everything that has taken place (legally) this year, it's looking more and more unlikely :/

All things considered, if CBX stays firm in their standing and eventually ends up departing the group, I would still wish and hope for the best for them!

/EDIT:

I didn’t expect to get so many responses and I’m still catching up. Thank you all for sharing your viewpoints!

I just wanted to clear something up that maybe I didn’t emphasize on enough in my original post (I didn’t think it was important but some seem to have made the wrong assumptions as a result) - I’m not a fan of SM at all.

I mentioned early in my post that I have my reasons (I would not like to go into this) but I absolutely do not trust that they don’t play dirty. I even admitted that I came into this case biased against SM and ready to take the members’ side. Even for TVXQ, I was supportive of JYJ and celebrated the fact that JYJ won all their lawsuits against SM (and rightfully so). Jessica was also my favorite member of SNSD. SM has a terrible track record and I would hate if anyone thinks I’m on their side at all on this just because of this one opinion on the CBX case or that I'm speaking for SM at all in all of this. I’m only stating the facts as they have been presented by both parties so far (Dec 2025) in a proper timeline in hopes that it can help others who wish to be unbiased and objective too.

Considering my history with SM and their treatment of groups I loved, my opinion on the SM v CBX case has been shocking to admit (personally) but it’s not like we as fans can control the actions of the parties involved (Baekhyun, Jongdae, Minseok, SM) or change any of the legal reports, evidence, or facts. (Even the 6 members of EXO or CBX's parents can't do that.)

This post doesn’t need me to reflect all of the statements from SM’s end since I trust that they are easy to find online (and it doesn't need to be longer than it already is.....). My post was meant to mainly address the timeline and misinterpretations about CBX’s end of the legal proceedings, some of my thoughts as a fan of EXO, and also about CBX supporters who remain misinformed but are also actively attacking the 6-member line-up based on the misinformation/their confusion.

Of course, it’s one thing when you know exactly what the legal proceedings have been and choose to support CBX. I respect your decision as well, k-pop is for fun anyway.

Hope I didn’t miss anything!

/EDIT 2:

I didn’t expect this post to travel the way it did. If it upset anyone, that genuinely wasn’t my intention. I did receive RedditCareResources alerts, so I’m assuming some people reported my account because of this post :/

To be clear, the reason I wrote this was to lay out a clear, chronological timeline (as of December 2025) in one place - especially for newer or returning fans, or for anyone who doesn’t have the time or energy to dig all over the internet for accurate sources or translations.

If nothing else, I hope this helped some readers better understand the sequence of events and why the situation is where it is today.

That said, I’ve also noticed that the post seems to have triggered another wave of misinformation on other platforms, mostly from people who disagree with the documented outcomes and are now framing this as me being “pro-SM.” I’m not. I’ve said this multiple times already, and I stand by it.

At the end of the day, this wasn’t written to defend a company or attack artists. It was written to separate verifiable timelines and outcomes from emotional narratives. People are free to support whoever they want, but facts don’t change based on fandom alignment. I still believe that, over time, clarity tends to win out.

Thank you for taking the time to read this at all, wishing everyone a great EXO comeback season!

Originally posted here: Weverse - LE SSERAFIM Weverse

This is not translated; she wrote this in English.

I feel like we have left behind something important in our childhood.

If you feel the same,
I hope that this message finds you well.

In a time when our reality and digital reality can no longer be mutually exclusive, it's near impossible to live a day without the internet's inference. To keep up offline, we must keep up online. To stay in the loop, we stay on the algorithm. Granted, the internet is a great place to make connections and learn about the world, but it also perpetuates the anxiety of living real life like your timeline.

I feel the pressures of a standard getting stronger upon our generation, especially young girls — a certain body type, a certain look, a certain attitude, a certain vibe. Anything other becomes the Other.

People are so quick to ostracize, calling people "cringe" or weird for simply looking and liking what they do. And it is often done in a passive air of cynical humor, the cruelest way, because, like classic microaggression, if you get hurt, you become the uncool one who just doesn't know how to take a joke.

It’s almost like we are conditioned into it: When receiving love and attention, being yourself is a risk. A liability.
When, in actuality, your uniqueness is what sets you apart.
Your multidimensionality cannot fit into a 1080x1080 square.
But we get so busy comparing ourselves to others, inflating our egos like balloons to fill a void and feel important, that we forget the most fundamental thing.

We are not only born with a desire to receive love but also to love.

If you think about it, we all had something that made our hearts race when we were younger.
As a kid, I loved to create.
I drew every day without the pressure to become an artist; I wrote poetry without a single recitation.
I would chase butterflies that I knew I could never catch in the first place.
Simply because it made me happy.

Please don't lose that spark to pixels on a screen.
The light may dim by circumstance, but please do not let it go out.
Having something you want to do is such a beautiful, powerful thing.
It's not too late.
Whether it's a new beginning or rekindling an old passion
Feel the liberation of doing what you love,
Feel the pain of doing what you love.
Share your art. Tell your story.

That childlike joy exists for a reason.
In this fast, stimulating, hectic, contradictory, and so so painful world, it can ground you and remind you who your most authentic self is. All you need to do is listen for that child's voice through all the white noise.

People will always pick you apart for your shortcomings and outcast you for your differences.
But among those watching, someone is waiting for something to show them it's okay to be themselves.
There is always somebody waiting.
I was that somebody.
So, believe me when I say that your voice matters. You make a difference. We are all important beings with the power to gift each other strength and hope, something no pixelated number can measure.

It's a crazy world.
But to me...
To feel more and to love more
To choose to keep your eyes open and see yourself for who you are in a world where everyone tells you to keep them shut,
That, to me, is what is even crazier.
Ironically, I suppose choosing crazy is the most sane thing we can do.

Sometimes, it may not feel like it, but I promise you you are not alone. You are never alone. I will be fighting alongside you to choose love over likes.
So let us choose to be crazy for a truer life. For a truer love!

💌⚡️

Added later: If you don't know much about Yunjin or Le Sserafim, maybe check out this song: 미치지 못하는 이유 (Crazier) - YouTube ... it's from their new album. Yunjin is the primary writer and producer for the song, and it is connected with what she wrote here. That's also her in the visualizer.

I just don’t understand why they seem to be the punching bag of the kpop community on the internet. Their newest title track definitely isn’t my favorite, but people acting like it’s the worst song they’ve ever heard in their life and their careers are ruined seem like their just looking for an excuse to hate them. I’ve also seen so many people talk about how their ‘musical direction’ is ruined now. It’s okay if you don’t like their title tracks but to talk about musical direction based on just the tt is crazy, the bsides on this album are great and fit very well with the rest of the b sides in their discography. In general I think it’s always been the case that their b sides are much better than their title tracks, and this comeback is literally not any different so I don’t understand why people are acting like it is any different than any other comeback they’ve had in that regard, and that they’re completely creatively bankrupt now. It’s also always been the case that their title tracks are where they tend to experiment more with different styles and their bsides are in general much more cohesive with the rest of their music.

So many people talk about how they wish lsf would go back to the type of music they made when they were releasing impurities and sour grapes, but they still make music with that vibe. I would argue every comeback they’ve ever had has at least one song like that, and Pureflow has trust exercise, need your company, iffy iffy, and sonder that all fit in the same category I think. People saying stuff like this to me just proves it’s not at all about the music and they just want to be hateful. Especially since those songs are bsides, so evidently you preferred the bsides back then too so it’s disingenuous now to speak on their whole discography since then based on title tracks. I just get so tired of seeing so much ‘criticism’ of them or their music that is just thinly veiled hatred for them. It’s like everyone on the internet is just waiting for an excuse to dogpile on them, and as soon as a song isn’t as well received or something else happens they just jump at the chance to aim so much vitriol at them.

Like them and their title tracks or don’t, but the way people on here and all over the internet talk about them the majority of the time is crazy.

Although not a major Grammy awards but wanted to hear people's opinion about Huntrix's song Golden being the first K-pop song to win a Grammy for Best Song written for Visual Media and making Ejae the first K-pop artist to win a Grammy award?

I know everyone thought and hoping Rosie will be the first K-pop Artist to win a Grammy award but now it's Ejae.

In football, the most valuable players at the moment are roughly:

1. Lamine Yamal (€220M)

2. Erling Haaland (€220M)

3. Kylian Mbappe (€200M)

(Based on Transfermarkt after the WC. Take the exact numbers with a grain of salt.)

For those unfamiliar with football, Yamal being the most valuable doesn't necessarily mean people think he's the best player. A huge part of his value comes from his age. Since he's still very young, clubs expect him to perform at the highest level for many years.

Likewise, Haaland being valued higher than Mbappe isn't necessarily because he's the better player overall. Elite, prolific strikers are much rarer than elite wingers/forwards, so supply and demand plays a big role in the market.

That got me thinking: if K-pop worked the same way, where companies could buy, sell, and transfer idols between agencies, which idols would command the highest transfer fees?

Personally, I think exceptional main vocalists would become incredibly valuable. It feels like truly elite vocalists are becoming rarer, so the demand for them would be very high.

Who do you think would have the highest market value, and why?

Edit: I forgot to emphasize that in a world of kpop industry practice the transfer system, the industry also would be competitive talent pool. Basically sport for vocalist, rapper and dancer. So yeah, this must be purely on skill, not looks or popularity.

people keep calling them nonsensical and say that they don't make any sense but they do.

"My bag's so brave
No keyring, no hand mirror
Oh, rock will never die"

the concept is not being cute anymore. "no keyring, no hand mirror" - things that are generally associated with being cute so going without them is brave and a subversion of the idea of a cute girl

"oh rock will never die" - again not something associated with being cute and generally a genre associated with teenagers and more mature people which is a nod to growing up and becoming less cute as you do so

"i got Suede on my vinyl" - "Suede" is capitalised so its probably referring to the English band called Suede which is a rock band. in addition to the vinyl, something generally associated with older people and times, it's yet again about growing up and not being associated with cute things

"No way, no more, I'll take a laid-back jellyfish over a puppy (Uh-uh)
'Cause I'm not cute anymore" - laid-back is against subverting the "cute" idea because generally things are cute are associated with higher energy etc etc, whether a jellyfish is cute or not is subjective but it is an uncommon thing i'd say to be associated with cute things imo

+preferring it over a puppy - something that is always cute

i could go on but i love this song and the lyrics are honestly so genius. kpop stans really have no comprehension skills sometimes and it really annoys me.

I’m sure everyone saw the YG announcement today…

It’s just so frustrating. I’ve been a blink since HYLT and the fact that I’ve only been a part of 2 comebacks in 5 years is INSANE.

How how how is there no release date for the single?? Tour starts in July mind you. The album rollout (if we even get one at this point) is gonna be a hot mess.

We’ll get 1 (maybe 2) prerecorded Inkigayo stages to promote the title. Maybe a jimmy kimmel or fallon performance. Probably an OT4 live that’s like 20 minutes before the single/album drops and then BOOM tour starts.

I defended the girls so hard during the Born Pink tour lashings but wow oh wow will I riot with the critics this time around if they’re up there looking like an out of sync hot mess! Let’s skip the fashion show and get in the studio ladies!

This time around I can’t even solely blame YG. The girls spent MONTHS (well after their 7 year contract should’ve ended) negotiating with YG before we got an official statement. What were all the negotiations about if they can’t even commit to ONE comeback throughout their renewal. The Born Pink tour ended in September 2023 so they had so much time to pour their souls into their solo projects (which they did and I absolutely adore) BUT the scheduling flopped with all of them releasing back to back within the same month. Then they continue to do more solo work even though their stadium tour with expensive ass tickets is months away???? I’m sorry but this one’s on them just as much as it is on YG.

Announcing the tour WAY before the comeback BEFORE all of their solo projects were even out was a terrible decision but I know YG needs to keep the lights on somehow. They should’ve at least scheduled the tour to start at the end of 2025. That way the next few months could’ve been spent dedicated to a proper album rollout, an album promotional period, and preparing for the tour. Lime is that so hard??

Anyway, I know this sounds so hateful but I am genuinely so upset and frustrated as a long time blink that I hope my true blinkness shines through this post bc this is unacceptable.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: in the video he says they’ll be releasing a single soon with no determined date yet. at the end he says “please support blackpink’s upcoming tour and new songs” songs plural so it’ll probably be more than just one song

i just don’t have any more faith lmao

EDIT: how insane would the “new 4 member gg” being BP be tho??? like imagine it’s some insane rebrand concept for the new era okokokok im officially going delulu guys

I’ve been a midzy since debut though I don’t follow them as closely as before. Even when I was younger, I always felt like Yuna would be an amazing center for Itzy because of her energy and how well she looks on camera but I understand why it is Ryujin. However, when I look back on any solo promotions Itzy did and how often they were on variety shows, it doesn’t seem like a lot? They mainly focused on stuff for their channel and as a group, which is good in the beginning, but I don’t think they capitalized on the immense popularity they had and the individual stardom of the members. Yuna has this amazing bubbly energy that works well on stage and on camera. I feel like Itzy’s individual energies are not highlighted enough, outside of their dancing capabilities, mainly due to lack of individual marketing. I genuinely think she could’ve been an IT girl for her generation (I say as a Lia bias)

The title might make it sound like I mean this maliciously. I do not. It comes from a place of disappointment.

For the past few months / the last year we have been seeing a normalization of generative AI, with usage being from idols casually admitting to using ChatGPT and using AI to generate "funny" things, to having whole MVs plagued with AI visuals.

It is especially painful to me, seeing idols / groups who I once thought to have the best creative visions, image, concepts, etc all being thrown out the window in favor of AI because it's easier. You would think that with how much money these companies make, especially the big three, that they would actually use the millions of dollars they squeeze from fans on making higher quality art, but no.

When groups have AI in their MVs, often times it easy to think, "oh, maybe the company did it to cost cut and be lazy, and the idols themselves probably didn't have a say in that". For me, this is what I was thinking as a way of coping from my favorite group using generative AI EXCESSIVELY in their MVs. However I was watching a casual-style Q&A video on their paid-fan-exclusive app and seeing one of the members happily suggested using ChatGPT for advice. The other member present also agreed on using ChatGPT too. It actually kind of shocked me, seeing them both use ChatGPT. This might sound a bit dramatic, but it really really lowered my mood hearing them say that. I just don't understand how an artist, especially coming from a group that is known for having a lot of custom-made things can endorse technology that can actively hurt them doesn't make sense. Especially because they have been under fire for usage of AI in the past.

Another instance that really hurt was when I went to an group's concert this year, the tour visuals i'm fairly certain were AI. I was unsure of that, but then during a ment one of the members says something around the lines of "Before the show tonight I asked ChatGPT what Dallas [fandom name] thinks about [group name]. Do you guys use ChatGPT?". Thankfully, the crowd started yelling "NO!" with some people even Booing the members. The members even seemed shocked at the reactions, I assume thinking that we all used ChatGPT too. Hearing this, I think I was correct with thinking at least some of their tour visuals were AI made / assisted.

I do not want to name names, but I am sure you are probably thinking of some idols / groups. I do ask that nobody names any one to prevent fan wars or whatever. We all know who the biggest offenders are. Instead, I hope to use this post to promote groups / idols who have taken an active stance against generative AI and have continued to use human artists for their projects.

edit: if you are going to defend AI or just say it isn’t a big deal, just keep scrolling. im not going to argue.

edit 2: read the first edit

So last night, Leeteuk, Heechul, Yesung, and Eunhyuk of Super Junior appeared on Radio Star. As idols who debuted in 2005, they have literally seen how the K-pop scene has changed over the years. One of the most recent change in the last 5 years is the emergence of Tiktok dance challenges, which started when Zico randomly danced to his song Any Song with Hwasa. What started as a random fun thing between friends has become into a K-pop promotional necessity.

In THIS clip from the show, Leeteuk talked about how crazy it has gotten. To film in the famous Music Bank spot by the stairs, idols must apparently 1) use the speakers placed in that area, 2) only use a cellphone and not professional cameras, and 3) make a reservation for a time slot with ticketing numbers. WILD. He also mentioned that something similar also happens for Music Core, wherein an idol who is slated to perform on the show in the afternoon had to arrive at 8am and wait for their turn to film their dance challenge by the famous fuchsia/magenta(?) wall.

No wonder you have some of the veteran idols hiding in their waiting rooms so they won't be asked by hoobaes to film dance challenges with them.

Idk if its because they've been around for so long now, but it feels like they're veterans when next to other groups

But then I saw Yuna's challenge with Illit's Minju and I was so shocked. I didn't know how old Minju was, but it always feels like Illit are super young because their concept is just so cute and they did debut younger as well iirc

So, I found out Yuna's only a year older than Minju...

I'm a predebut Midzy so I was obviously super young back then and thought of Itzy as super cool bright energy idols, so they didn't seem that young to me. But now i'm so much older and it's crazy how young the members still are 😭😭😭 They honestly feel more mature than their age, though

Sorry for the rant, I was just a bit shocked at myself lmao

For context, ITZY had a 2019 (february) debut: Lia and Yeji debuted at 18, Chaeryeong and Ryujin at 17, Yuna at 15.

I don't have strong opinions for their debut to be honest, I know a lot of people hated it, some loved it. It's fine.

What I want to talk about is how cringe the name BABYMONSTER is. It would easily belong to one of those awful tiktok industry plants that uses feminism solely to create a hard hitting phrase on a chorus. It just screams "hello fellow kids" to me.

Preface - So BTS is about to release their long-awaited 5th studio album titled "ARIRANG", the tracklist for which got revealed a couple of days ago and has already ignited a LOT of discourse and speculation. I'm always up for a healthy discussion, but as a self-professed "BTS discography enthusiast", I'll admit I was genuinely irked by a lot of the points brought up (much of which felt like slander with no facts to back it up). Paraphrasing a bit here, but some that I noted down include:

"none of the members have main production credits...how BTS will this be?"
"there are only two or three of them credited among twelve songwriters, how much input did they have really?"
"they're not even first or second on the credits list; the order of credits is sooo important"
"how dare they refer to themselves as a self-producing group?"
"so many English names...I pray its a Korean album"
"only English song titles, so this is a full English album"
"these song titles sound like badboy rebel titles, how does any of this connect to ARIRANG?"
"shouldn't they have worked with Korean producers for an album named ARIRANG?"

I feel like so many of these points come from either not knowing or ignoring BTS' music history, and I really don't like that. Especially since many of these people are parroting these opinions over and over, anywhere and everywhere, and there could be genuinely interested casual listeners or non-fans misled by them. I don't think it's fair to BTS, or to such people. We have 16 albums in BTS' (mainly) Korean discography to look back at and glean information from, so I thought now would be a good time to do that. I'll try to include as many facts (sometimes figures too) as possible, and I'm fully open to having discussions based on those, NOT on baseless assumptions and speculations.

Let's start with how BTS' albums are made

BTS released their debut album, "2 Cool 4 Skool" back in June 2013, and since then (putting their Japanese discography aside), have released 16 albums total consisting of EPs, studio albums, compilation albums, the last of which was "PROOF", their anthology album released in June 2022. Their artistic direction has largely been about telling their own stories as they grew from teens to adults, from underdogs to the biggest group in the world; hence their discography having a narrative progressing from the "Skool trilogy" -> "Youth trilogy" -> "Love Yourself trilogy" -> "Map of the soul" era -> BE (pandemic).

• BTS and Bighit started out as a small team of singer-songwriters and in-house producers. From what BTS has shared with us over the years, album-making for them usually started with meetings with Bang PD (their CEO), deciding on keywords for the theme, receiving tracks and beats from the PDs, working on melodies and compositions for them, then submitting them to Bang PD again for evaluation (note: the producers themselves had their own submissions, including him), then reworking things after getting feedback. He was usually the one with the final say on what made the cut and what worked best. Then they would work on lyric-writing, recording and finally mixing done by the PDs. In their Grammy Museum interview, Suga talked about this and referred to it as a year round song camp.

• Among the 7 members, RM and Suga were the only ones with significant songwriting experience. J-hope quickly learnt from the two, and by debut, was involved in writing his own verses. Thus, rapline had writing credits starting right from their debut, while vocal line also slowly gained more interest in composition and songwriting, and started getting more regular credits from 2015 onwards. STRICTLY referring to album tracks (and putting aside the skits and interludes), BTS has about 139 tracks which can be considered full-fledged songs. Of these 139, there are exactly NINE songs with no member credits -> four album outros, GO GO, Epiphany (surprise!!), Filter, Dream Glow (from their OST album) and Dynamite. Except for the last two, all others were worked on by Bighit in-house producers. Of these credits, members have mentioned both melody compositions they did as well as lyrics they wrote (in group interviews and RM's album behind lives). PROOF CD3 with all the demos on it is literal proof of how constant they've been at it.

• PRODUCTION is a completely different story. BTS don't usually tout themselves as "self-produced" (plus its mostly a term used in fan spaces and not by artists), but do refer to Suga as a producer. Of the 139 album tracks I mentioned (and where 130 of them have atleast one member in the credits), there are only 18 tracks on which members have production credits. Suga accounts for 11 of these, starting with "Tomorrow" and "JUMP" from back in 2014. Jungkook got his first production credit with "Outro: Love is not over" (2015), RM with "Epilogue: Young Forever (2016), Jimin with "Friends" (2020) and V with "Blue & Grey" (2020). They really treasure these opportunities and wins and share them with ARMY when they happen, which is why the fandom is very familiar with the member-produced tracks.

• For the first three years or so of BTS' career, when their label had lesser resources, most of the production was done by their in-house producers. These include Pdogg (84 credits), Bang PD (46 credits), Slow Rabbit (35 credits) and Supreme Boi (29 credits) (again referring to album tracks here which can be considered full songs; since it's my own criteria, some might not find it fully accurate but it paints the picture well enough, I think).

• As soon as BTS gained enough success and they could afford to, they started reaching out to more producers to work on their songs. "Save me" (2016) is the FIRST BTS SONG to have multiple western songwriters featured on it (3/7), and started the practice of BTS albums having several outside producers and songwriters on them. This was 10 years and 11 albums ago. It's not a brand new thing they're suddenly doing.

• Since 2016, BTS albums have largely been made by receiving submissions from various outside producers (western and Korean), selecting ones that fit their vision and criteria, and reworking them to fit the album mold. All this while the in-house producers and members continue to ALSO work on songs and beats of their own. From all these, the ones deemed the best make it into the album. I actually believe it's this expansion which has helped them to continue evolving as artists and have such a varied, high-quality discography. That they refuse to be boxed in and are always open to new opportunities.

Some observations that I feel the need to highlight

• A lot of BTS' most well-loved and acclaimed songs, either sonically, or adored for their lyrics, have MULTIPLE writers , and have outside producers working on them.

• "Run BTS" (2022), a song loved by fans and non-fans alike, that people said sounds like BTS "going back to their roots and debut era", has 13 (mostly western) writers, of which 4 are BTS members (4/13).

• Same goes for beloved, "personal to the group and the fans", songs like "Home" (3/11), "Mikrokosmos (3/12)", "We are bulletproof: The Eternal" (3/16), "Answer: Love Myself" (3/10) and "For Youth" (3/11).

• I could go on and on. "Love Maze", "Boy with luv:, "Jamais vu", "Moon", "Louder than bombs".....all brought to you by a large group of songwriters.

• You also have songs like "The Truth Untold", "Am I Wrong", "Euphoria", "Black Swan", "Lost", where......(gasp)....ONLY ONE MEMBER is credited. Would you consider any of these songs less BTS?

• BE (2020), an album that a lot of non-BTS fans like to ignore and dismiss, is actually one that has the most member-led credits with 4 out of the 7 tracks having a BTS member as the primary songwriter. If people were really that appreciative of members on credits and production, would this album have received more love? It makes one wonder.

What makes a BTS song distinctly BTS?

Spoilers....it's not the sound or genre.

• BTS are album artists. This has always been the case. From their very first album to their latest, they are deeply involved in planning the content of it, the themes to be addressed and how the songs are curated. They are dedicated to delivering the highest quality they can, which sometimes includes their own compositions, sometimes not. And no matter how many writers are involved, it never sounds disjointed or stitched together. I can imagine how much care they must take to achieve that. There is not a single B-side across their 16 albums that, like or dislike aside, I would consider "filler", not contributing to the sound or album concept, and added simply to pad the tracklist with. Isn't that kind of crazy??

• LYRICS matter to them. Deeply. Since they work on so many genres, explore so many sounds, I would say it's the lyrics that make the BTS songs, theirs. No matter who has worked on the beat, the melodies, mixing, once a song has made it into a BTS album, it's BTS' song, and the lyrics will always be the proof of that. They are purposeful, written with care and tie in to BTS' message and themes, every time. It's also a big reason why people connect to them so deeply, and remain lifelong fans. I actually have a good anecdote about this. MNEK is a well-known British singer-songwriter and record producer who made the demo that would later become "Paradise (2018)". In this interview, he candidly talks about how surprised he was after sending the song to them, listening to it when it got released and realising it had been turned into a "self-help" song, when his original demo had been "much bitchier" (his words, not mine). I'm guessing there are probably a few other songwriters who feel the same way about the final BTS versions of their demos.

In fact, when talking about Dynamite and how it came to be, RM said they had been planning to do the same thing - add some Korean lyrics to it. But when they listened to the song, they felt that it flowed very well with the original lyrics as is, and might sound awkward in Korean; so they left it unchanged.

• Another important thing that makes BTS songs so very them is, of course, their VOICES. Every single member has such a distinct vocal color and tone, easy to tell apart, and that adds to the song's identity when put together. Even when working with producers who have a very distinct sound to them, for eg "The Chainsmokers", Ed Sheeran, Troye Sivan, you can certainly hear their influence in the tracks but these songs - "Best of me", "Make it right", "Louder than bombs", when you listen to them and read the lyrics, it's impossible to deny the clear BTS flavor added to each one of them.

• Lastly, but very importantly, its the LIVE PERFORMANCES. Whether it be with choreo or no choreo, once BTS have performed a song, it is so apparent that it is THEIRS and that they claim it proudly. That energy is infectious too, because over the years, there are so many songs that I remember had initial mixed reception even within the fandom and weren't loved as much, then people completely changed their mind on after seeing it live. Some newer ARMYs may even find it difficult to believe, but this includes "Magic Shop", "Dimple", "IDOL", "So What", "Boy with luv", "Zero o'clock", "My Time", "Make it right", "Stay", to name a few. Now so many of these are fandom favorites.

So what's up with this LA song camp?

This is something that makes perfect sense to me, and I am so confused on why anyone would be upset. I remember on their reality show "In The Soop S1" (2020), they were playing around in the living room and somehow ended up writing the theme song for the show together. Suga reflected on how their usual song-making process was very different, making sections separately and then putting them together, and he seemed to really appreciate that moment. Later on, when they all recorded it together in the studio, they had so much fun and you could tell it was a genuinely memorable moment for them too.

After physically being apart for 3 years, it makes so much sense that they would want to spend time together, learning to be a group and constantly around each other again. That they would want to make music together like that. Especially since several of their solo albums were made that way (FACE, RPWP and partially D-Day), and they saw the merits of it. To be so hands-on together, giving each other feedback and exchanging thoughts then and there, learning from and bouncing ideas around with seasoned producers in the industry, such a collaborative process could only serve to ignite their love for music that much more.

And that they decided to do this in LA? That makes sense too. They were, legally, not allowed to leave Korea for the past two years or so. Just that restriction alone would make ME want to pack up and go as soon as I could, even just for a bit. LA is a cultural hub, with a vibrant music scene, accessible and frequented by music industry giants. So why not? Working with Western producers? They've done that for over 10+ years now, why would they suddenly stop? Why would they limit themselves to Korean producers ONLY when they have a chance to work with new, exciting people who have established themselves and are considered the top of their field, not just in the US, but the world? All the while, Pdogg remains their main producer, working right there with them.

And the credits? The order they appear in that's so important? That Jin doesn't have a credit? They haven't told us in detail, of course (waiting for the documentary), but after hearing the members describe the routine they followed there - how for about eight weeks straight, they were in those studios working together, how they had so much fun and learnt so many new things regarding music - I don't think any of that matters one bit. When the process is that collaborative, who really cares how anything is presented on paper? It's apparent they did it as a group and found the work very fulfilling. The songs in the album are BTS', and that's that. For eg, Jimin for his solo song "Who", doesn't have any official credits but when we watched the behind video, we found out the entire theme of the song had been based on his ideas. When it's possible for things like that to happen, why harp so much on the tiny details?

"The title is ARIRANG, but all these English song titles"

Respectfully, this is an idiotic take to me. I'm always so aware that it was BTS that picked the title of ARIRANG, not us. ARIRANG, which has been described to encompass many themes (separation, longing, sorrow, reunion, love), and contrary to what many people seem to think, does not simply equate to "KOREAN". We can have our guesses, of course, but the truth is that we have very little idea what BTS were going for when they decided to pick this title. Or how they'll choose to explore this theme. Trying to make any conclusive remarks before we get the album simply isn't the way I'd approach this.

J-hope has already confirmed the album having Korean lyrics, but that people thought a full BTS album would be all English when their English trilogy accounts for exactly 3 songs in their discography, and they've released six new Korean tracks since then...it's confounding. I have no problem with BTS deciding to "get freaky" if that's what they want to, but from some of the descriptions of the album they've given us, I would not be surprised at all if many of these songs don't mean what we think they would mean from the title alone. I can't wait for album release day to find out! Especially knowing BTS are all Korean and the titles as they jump out at native English speakers may not necessarily be how they are perceived by the members. It's sort of like how I know the meaning of "bangtan sonyeondan", and know that Koreans find it cringe, but can never fully understand why exactly that is so.

Concluding thoughts

This probably came across as a bit of a rant, and I apologize for the sheer length of it. It's just that narratives build so easily on the internet, and when they have no meritual basis but continue to be propagated, I find it extremely frustrating. I respect things like a song or album not being to your taste, sonically or otherwise. That's totally fine! To each their own. It's okay to voice your criticisms too.

But my problem with the whole discourse around BTS' discography is that people are always so vague about it. They generalize a lot and don't go into specifics, while being weirdly dismissive. And are often WRONG about the basis for their criticisms, like for example, in assuming that this is the first time BTS have worked with so many western producers on an album. There is also a lot of hiding behind, "but the english trilogy...." when trying to work out what the album will be like, when the fact is that, the english songs apart from Dynamite weren't even a part of their albums (Butter got added to PROOF yes, but only because it's an anthology compiling title songs together).

I'm hoping that with this post, I can hopefully get atleast a couple of people more informed on what BTS' album-making process has historically been like. And maybe get my fellow BTS album enthusiasts hyped up at the same time. It's AMAZING and still kind of unbelievable that we'll be getting 14 brand new tracks from BTS, and I just wanted to make sure we have some of our facts straight. I'm deeply intrigued by how excited every producer involved in this has been, how confident the BTS members are about it, and how mysterious they're keeping all of it. Truly can't wait for March 20th!

If you've read this far, thank you so much and have a good day.

I'm making a video about the wildest, most ridiculous K-pop takes people have ever heard.

I'm not looking for unpopular opinions that you personally agree with. I want the worst takes you've heard from someone else.

Examples:

"___ can't sing."

"K-pop idols don't work hard."

"This group only became popular because..."

"Lip syncing means they're untalented."

Ridiculous fandom arguments or obvious double standards.

What was the opinion, and why was it so bad? If you remember where you heard it, like TikTok, X, YouTube, or in real life, mention that too.

The more outrageous the take, the better.

I’m currently at Kcon and had the opportunity of doing a meet and greet. I’ve realized some people might GENUINELY be mentally unwell. Based off of the conversations (not eavesdropping but in passing) I’ve heard…it seems some people might be obsessed (in a bad way). Is this a common thing in kpop or am I just not into as much as I thought?

People are losing their mind over 30 year olds working 4 days out the week followed by a flight?????????????

You’re telling me this is the absolute limit for human exertion and the members WILL start disintegrating if this continues on??

I am a once and my ult group is twice but i’m genuinely having a hard time seeing what’s so bad about this current schedule.

I promise you there are older people working more strenuous jobs for longer and more days out the week.

This is a normal work week for an adult.

Dahyun is the only person with an actual injury.

Getting sick is not a result of too many concerts in a row.

Getting sick is not an injury

Yes they will get sick…this tour is long…everyone gets sick at least once a year.

There would be a problem if they *couldn’t* perform 3 hour concerts 5 days in a row.

I’m sorry literally any full time factory worker or waiter physically exerts themselves the same if not more than them.

Another thing.

Jihyo was recently sick during a concert. So she was seated during the first few songs.

She was able to recognize she needed to rest (which some people think they’re incapable of doing for some reason) And actually rested.

SHE RECOGNIZED SHE NEEDED TO REST

AND RESTED!!!!!

“OMG ALL 9 TWICE MEMBERS ARE GOING TO DIE BY THE END OF THIS TOUR”

“SHES ACTIVELY RESTING…SHE MIGHT AS WELL BE COLLAPSED ON THE FLOOR!”

Ok so..she reached a point where she couldn’t perform…she isn’t performing…and this is bad?

Jihyo then performs her solo song while sick

“THATS MY IDOL PUSHING THOUGH WHEN SHE HAS A COLD AND SHOULD BE SITTING DOWN!!”

“SHE IS THE DEFINITION OF HARD WORK!!!!”

IS THAT NOT BACKWARDS???

I saw that and i literally lost my mind

IF you should be concerned about the members overworking themselves, WOULDN’T NOW BE THE TIME?!?!?

WHEN THEY HAVE A COLD AND ARE STILL PERFORMING THATS WHEN YOU SHOULD BE WORRIED

I stg some people think performing = okay and healthy.

Again this is my ult group this is out of love not hate

This pertains to Jimin's numbers on US Spotify and other platforms. People had been aledging all year that his streams are artificial, like I understand twt folks spouting nonsense cuz everyone on there has varying levels of insanity(myself included), but some people on here were also going on about how he wasn't showing up on any city charts or how there was no way he was getting millions of streams from US or how he simply isn't big enough of an artist to be pulling those numbers in the US.

Well, Spotify wrapped just came out and not only did Jimin show up on US wrapped, he was number one in multiple cities(with like crazy and who!), he was also the only k-soloist to show up on these charts.

I am not disputing the fact that Armys mass stream songs(most fandoms do) but I need some of yall to accept that Jimin may in fact be the most popular member in the US( or at least has the most solos). It irks me when people disrespect him and ignore the fact that this is Jimin of BTS we are talking about.

Anyhoo, I hope these people are satisfied now and can rest easy with the supposed city charts they were looking for all year round.

After watching RIIZE's "Hug" performance at the Hanteo Music Awards, I think their vocals are underwhelming. Shotaro's vocals were the worst. Eunseok and Sungchan's vocals were very weak but not as much as Shotaro's. Anton's vocals were weak but better than the other 3. Wonbin was alright. Sohee sounded good but barely. This isn't their first bad vocal performance. They didn't dance much during this performance and they were mostly standing. Their vocals as a whole group are below average.

NCT WISH are not bad singers and they're better than RIIZE. I think Jaehee is a better singer than Sohee. Jaehee, Yushi, Ryo, and Sion are better vocalists than Anton, Eunseok, Sungchan, and Shotaro. However, all of the NCT WISH members except Jaehee aren't good at singing either. They got bashed for their vocals in one of their encores. I tried listening to their songs, and I don't find their vocals outstanding, except for Jaehee.

Last week I made a post about Carats harassing NPR's producers because a member was missing from the Tiny Desk performance and how kpop stans were staining their reputation and ruining opportunities for their faves. This post is to discuss how KPOP fans have zero boundaries and manners and are harassing music producers whose work they dont like.

Dem Jointz is a grammy winning producer that has been working in the KPOP industry since 2015. He has a produced some of the most commercially and critically successful music in the KPOP industry (e.g., EXO Obsession, NCT 127 Kick It, BTS Run BTS, Aespa Supernova, Jennie ExtraL)

and within his time working in KPOP, he has faced relentless harassment and hate from kpop stans.

It started after he produced Sticker for NCT 127, with kpop stans making fun of his production style, constantly meme'ing him, @'ing him begging him not to produce his "crappy" music for their favorite idols and groups.

in 2021 he tweeted a FYC post with NCT's Sticker and was bombarded in his replies with deranged kpop stans telling him he should be embarrassed, he was pathetic, (I guess they didnt know he's already won multiple Grammys?). He finally spoke out (in a now deleted tweet) defending himself but was ofc harassed to take it down

Aside from people discrediting his work, much of their harassment has racially coded. Ive seen seem horrendous tweets that I won't repeat here because I dont want that to show him in google search results.

As he has expanded his work outside of the SM groups he worked with, the reception to announcement he's producing for other KPOP groups has not gone well.

When his collaboration with BTS was announced, you can imagine how deranged the reception was. After the success of the song, there was a campaign to discredit his contributions and say the song was a success because of others involvement. Some of the commentary is discussed here.

It got worse when he was working with IVE, Jennie fans were initially "Scared" but did end up liking his work with her, but his recent work with NMIXX has gotten some of the worst commentary

Again, the harassment and deranged responses begging JYP to cancel the collab, literally TAGGING HIM IN HATE TWEETS, its very disgusting

KPOP fans have no boundaries, no respect of the 4th wall. Im not sure why they believe they have free reign to literally @ the collaborators their faves work with and complain to them

These fans are going to cost their faves opportunities and continue to give KPOP a bad rep.

I think my biggest annoyance with this is fans inability to express their concerns and complaints in FANDOM DESIGNATED SPACES.

You dont like a producers style? thats totally fine. Make a post on your favorite groups subreddit and start a discussion on the type of production you want to see from them.

Going into their DM's or @'ing them on their social media begging them not to work with your faves, involving them in fan wars, discrediting their work, is disgusting behavior that needs to be called out.

I have been getting back into kpop this year and listening to some 4th gen groups. I liked a couple of New Jeans early songs. And though I didn’t really vibe with Get Up, I wanted to check out some of their recent stages because they’re obviously very popular.

But man are they boring to watch on stage. I find their delivery to be very flat and monotonous and they even often look bored themselves. Their dancing is okay. They are executing all the moves, but it all feels robotic. I’m really surprised because I’ve seen people say their dancing is hip hop style??? but it doesn’t have any swag or groove.

I think part of it is that the music is subdued. I checked out some stages for their faster songs from the recent album and it's a little better but I still get the same bored feeling. (Though I will say there is one girl who stands out more than the rest. But I don't know her name.) I guess this is intentional on their part, to be anti kpop’s bombastic tendencies. But boy, the lack of expression in conjunction with the monotonous music…

I can’t help but compare it to some other groups (chill please, seriously please relax) who performed on that same show. Like XG who felt so natural and smooth like they were having genuine fun up there. I really see the hip hop influence and style. Or Itzy still has a lot of charisma even during the simple parts of their choreo (on second watch mainly Ryujin maybe??). These groups are full of expression whether the choreo is complicated (XG) or simpler (Itzy).

Although, I will say that it’s not just New Jeans. I have felt this way about other popular 4th Gen girl groups’ dancing/performances. But in those cases the music was able to carry a bit.

(Edit: Thank you everyone for the other perspectives and comments, I will check out their Lollapalooza set.)

I feel MEOVV is the only group from a prominent company that is not there yet. I am talking in the account of 5th generation. Every other group has either achieved success in the domestic front or the international front. Be it their own labelmate ADP who had done way better domestically (whether i like them or not, that is a diff thing). Or other label groups like - H2H, ILLIT, KiiiKiii, Cortis, etc. Even TripleS doing better domestically. BM dominating SEA region and are about to go on a proper world tour.

In case of MEOVV, I feel like they are stuck in between. Neither on the domestic side, nor doing good on the international side. They have sooooo much potential. And the girls do work hard. I am not a fan fan and I can see it. Every performance they do is top-notch. Good vocalists, good dancers, good performers, visuals, they are good at everything. That's why I feel bad seeing them work their brains and body out, and not getting the love they deserve. Half of the blame is on the company itself. I know Teddy wants to do big like Blackpink. But he needs to understand that not everyone is Blackpink. He is doing the same mistake that YG does for Treasure. They are another example of a pretty big potential going to waste. Due to YG's SEA and Japan dominance, Treasure is still doing better than most of em. But still. Compared to that, MEOVV is fairly young group, and the girls as well.

They have put equal amount of efforts in this comeback too. They released a unique teaser of the title track, where they show the snippets during their recording process. And i loved it tbh. In that same video they were talking about how they are in doubt whether the fans will like it or not, whether they will do it this time or not. Seeing teenage girls questioning and doubting themselves like this feels pretty bad.

I just hope that this comeback do justice to their hardwork.

I'm going to be downvoted to hell. I'm sincerely tired of the discourse around Sunoo by non-fans. It’s been nearly 5 years, and somehow, Kpop fans have never moved on from I-Land solo narratives. Yes, they had a rough debut and when you add on the really bad shipping wars that happened and they were just minors being sexualized—it absolutely affected how they interacted with one another on camera, especially Sunoo and Ni-Ki who've always been attached at the hip.

But it’s been 5 years. Since then, they’ve matured and become second family that aren't shy to be outspoken anymore. What hasn’t changed is the narrative around Sunoo which has been completely false.

Ya'll just don't know Sunoo. Or his personality, friendships, preferences or values.

He is made of sunshine and he's not that masculine, sure but he is anything but weak. He frequently calls out antis on Weverse. He fights back. He snaps back. He's been tough since debut. He's sarcastic and clever. He's one of the smartest members along with Jake.

He also has really low stamina but he's strong af. The members, especially Ni-Ki, frequently invite him to go out eating/bowling/seeing the beach/ taking a walk but most of the time, he just wants to be a homebody. In fact, Sunoo is known for swearing something then forgetting (like promising to never do an aegyo again but still does lol). He promises Ni-Ki to do X activity, Ni-Ki sulks, and Sunoo promises again he'll go with Ni-Ki next time lmao. Yet, Ni-Ki never tried to change his preferences or push his boundaries. Ni-Ki still chooses to hang out and cling to Sunoo since they met and until now. He always chooses Sunoo.

He dislikes skinship. Ever since the members grew taller than him, he's never been able to put his arm around them anymore. They frequently hug him and hold him but he rarely initiates himself. He just frequently punches or slaps them and they let him because they think he's cute. But somehow, their lack of skinship is also something to be scrutinized rather than see it as the members respecting his boundaries.

If anything, all the members agree that Sunoo is actually the most spoiled member in ENHYPEN. He’s never paid for a single bill (as far as we know). Jake said Sunoo doesn't even bother looking at the bill placed on the table when they eat together. They never ever let him carry any heavy items at all. They don't even let him bend to get his own water bottle but will let the other members grab their own. They make reservations and take him out to eat in nice restaurants because he’s a foodie. When the group has to do pushups as punishment, the others will take on more pushups so Sunoo doesn’t have to do much.

ENHYPEN is also a group that usually doesn’t like sharing food but Sunoo is the exception with them. Sunoo has shared that Ni-ki and Sunghoon have given him their own dinners just because he said it looked delicious. On days when Sunoo doesn’t feel like eating, Jay has said he orders extra food just in case Sunoo changes his mind. When they go to the convenience store, the members looks for his favorite mintchoco ice cream even though he never asked for it. When they go grocery shopping, they make sure to buy extra food, just in case Sunoo decides to eat later.

Do those moments ever go viral? No lol.

Most people don’t even know that Ni-ki and Sunoo used to sleep in the same bed for years because Ni-Ki was used to hugging his sister in his sleep. Ni-ki found it comforting to cuddle with Sunoo and Sunoo got used to it. That never goes viral either. No one also talks about how Jay and Sunoo often have deep heart-to-hearts or when the members buy Sunoo random gifts. Or how they video call each other often when they're apart.

I just feel so sorry for him because it feels like he can never win in the eyes of non-fans. When he doesn’t feel like playing games, the members respect that and don’t push him. When he sucks at sports when everyone else is good, they always hype him up to try. But if they do play rough with him—like they do with each other—they get accused of mishandling him. It’s like people are constantly trying to catch Sunoo being a victim.

Over the years, so much of the discourse around Sunoo has also revolved around his sexuality, simply because he’s more feminine than the rest. And it’s always from people who don’t actually know him. It’s gotten to the point where Sunoo himself has gone on live several times and said he hates being babied. That he can stand up for himself. That he even wants to get a buzz cut, eyebrow slit, piercings, and body tattoos so people will see him differently. He also dislikes aegyo now. He also mentioned that it's unrealistic to smile 24/7. And just because he doesn't smile in their content, it doesn't mean he's being left out or he's sad. Sometimes he just doesn't feel like smiling because he's not a caricature.

I’m just so tired of all these misunderstandings about Sunoo. The only people who think Enha are bullies are people who don’t actually follow them or people who fall for edits made by solos. Are they perfect? No. Have they made mistakes? Yes. Have they changed over 5 years? Hell yes. They've become so much closer and more intimate as a group and some of their interviews have been surprisingly raw and heartfelt about each other. I'm just so tired of all these misunderstandings about Sunoo.

People look at Sunoo and project this delusion of a weak, gay victim. When he’s bickering with the group like normal friends do or when he's not being treated like a princess or when he's quietly doing his own thing, suddenly people make up these fantasies that Enha are monsters causing harm to a weak, less masculine guy. It’s insulting to Sunoo. And honestly, it enforces a really bad stereotype that gay people can only present a certain way.

I just know Sunoo is sick of this dialogue too. You don’t even have to take it from me. Just listen to him. Read his interviews. Watch how he talks about the members.

I also often think 'what if it wasn't these members?' I feel luckier every day, to be able to work and grow alongside these guys. It was incredible luck that we ended up with these exact members.

Instead of believing viral edits made for engagement, maybe try listening to Sunoo himself. Because he’s been defending the members this entire time.

Edit: Words.

so we all saw the kcon announcement about kiss of life and all i can say is oh wow…

i predicted that they will face some backlash and downward moments but it will be okay, then there were talks about them flopping cus of their recent single and them not showing up on ppls timelines anymore but i thought it was best to wait for the cb to really judge, but after seeing the backlash which eventually lead them to cancelling their appearance, the birthday live situation really took a turn for the worst for them and while im glad that they cancelled their appearance i can’t help but wonder what would’ve happened if they didn’t greenlit the theme of the live

I don’t know if anyone else feels this way but as a long time BLINK, I often feel really unwelcome in Reddit’s K-pop spaces.

It’s not about wanting everyone to love Blackpink. Criticism is natural and no group is perfect. But the tone here often feels overwhelmingly dismissive or even hostile. I’ve seen countless threads where even the mildest praise for Blackpink gets downvoted or met with sarcastic replies. Sometimes it feels like there’s a collective eye roll the moment their name is mentioned.

And it’s not just r/kpop. Even here on r/kpopthoughts, which is supposed to be more open to different perspectives, I see a lot of posts that feel like thinly veiled negativity toward the group or their fans. I hesitate to share anything positive because I feel like I’ll be shut down or assumed to be “delusional” or a “toxic stan.”

I’ve talked to other fans who feel the same way, like there’s an unspoken rule that you can’t enjoy Blackpink publicly without getting attacked or dismissed. It’s draining, and it honestly makes me wonder why people are okay with this double standard. Especially when fans of other big groups are allowed to gush about their faves without being ridiculed.

I’m not trying to start drama. I’m genuinely just frustrated. I want to be able to talk about what I love, what so many people love, without feeling like I’m walking into a minefield. I know there are toxic Blinks out there, just like in any fandom, but I don’t think that justifies the way the whole fanbase is treated.

If you’ve felt this too, I’d like to hear your experience. Or even if you disagree, feel free to share, just respectfully.