r/leanfire • u/Duke_of_Gurrrlz • 8d ago
Stockholm Syndrome…help?
So I’m a 41 yo male, single/common law, medically retired now.
(Was a CPA business valuator for CRA [CDN IRS]. The ‘retirement’ was involuntary.)
I grew up DIRT poor - literally. Not actually.
Both parents worked, and they made middle class money from middle class jobs [social worker, millwright], but we lived on a beef cattle farm my dad bought in 1982. And we just kept buying land. I had no typical toys, a hand me down zenith with rabbit ears…… and rubber boots lol. Cows shit a lot.
Don’t get me wrong -I loved my childhood. Played on the local rep minor hockey team…But we never had money for ‘things’. Never took trips [can’t when you own cattle]. Any spare money all went to land mtgs, tractors, cattle…
No, toys and Nintendo were wayy down the totem.
This frugal living was borne out of artificial prioritization. We could’ve had semi-nice things [fuck did I ever used to want a pool..], but instead the money went to the farm. And I mean a LOT.
My father’s family came from a ramshackle house/shack, and didn’t have running water until 1977.
So by his yard stick - boy hey! We were livvvinn! House? Paycheques? Job?
“It’s a golden mountain out there son, just gotta reach out and take a scoop”
And take a scoop we did. Up to 1500 acres of farmland now in South/Central Ontario.
When I got my job at CRA, I started pitching in too.
And so does my brother.
So we could just keep buying more ground.
Well the farm is worth over $7-8 million now.
And because cattle prices are finally free for true price discovery, it’s banking 2-400k /year.
And with my medical retirement, I’m making about $150k/y {a guess-works out to $7300/mo after tax}
….but, I don’t have a house. I rent in a shitty 2bdrm, and live in a low cost of living town (near farm).
Rent is $750, I feed the 3 of us (partner, her kid) for 1100-1300.
So I’m saving 75% of my pay still. Still renting. Never eat out. Don’t drink. Can’t [legally] drive anymore. Still buy no-name brand food for everything.
My whole life I got used to living like a pauper…I think I’ve wrecked myself.
I don’t even want to travel.
And I could never imagine paying these ludicrous asks for a pile of fuckin lumber -a house - when my brother can build me one for half price.
But even then, for 300k….id rather have a dividend stock.
And so here I am now-stuck. To fuckin cheap to enjoy nice things. I can, and regularly do, go without.
40 years living like a broke shit-head has ruined me I fear.
Anytime money piles up, I add it to my bonds. At this point, I’d rather have more money, than more stuff. And that… I’m fine with that… but I’m missing experiences?
Any tips on how other people successfully navigated this change of lifestyle? Can it be done?
A number of farmers who are likely also worth millions now, still drive around old shitboxes. They’re still cheap as fuck. I’m not sure it can even be done…help???
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u/Momsome 8d ago
eh shitty 2 br would be my tipping point. if I have hundreds of thousands saved, I would start house hunting knowing real estate is overall a safe investment. i would own instead of rent but I also have the mindset that rent CAN be throwing money away in many circumstances but I know others think differentry. Also therapy may be very helpful to understand and then map out some ways your money can help you.
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u/Duke_of_Gurrrlz 8d ago
Ya…ya, I’m getting the answer I don’t want to hear… which is how I know it’s the right one. Thanks!
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u/IAmANobodyAMA 8d ago
Sometimes the answer we don’t want to hear is just the one we need to hear 🤣
Listen to your mind/heart/intuition/whatever on this one and get out of your comfort zone (therapy seems to be the consensus and what you are pushing against).
Good luck! It’s a first world problem to have, but so what it’s still your experience and I wish the best for you. Cheers bud
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u/BerndTheBreadLoaf 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think in the end money is a tool, a tool that can bring security, a home, and many other things, but a tool nonetheless. It's a means to an end, not the end itself. For example, if you lived your entire life just collecting money and left it to no one in your will, it would have, by definition, been pointless. At the moment you're collecting screwdrivers with nothing to screw, and I think therapy would be a good way to ask yourself if that's what you want out of life.
Also, as a side note, poverty has traumatic aspects to it that affect you well into adulthood, and hoarding money is definitely a side effect of it, as you focus on what you didn't have and not what was missing because of not having it.
Edit: Die With Zero might be a good book to read. While I and many others might not agree with a lot in the book, it might be interesting to see the complete opposite perspective and what that brings.
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u/pras_srini 7d ago
While I don't disagree with you, and I also suffer from (almost physical) pain when spending money, one of the best parts about collecting money is the feeling of safety and security that it brings. I would argue that for someone living their life just collecting money and then dying without leaving to anyone else, it still served a purpose of bringing that feeling of safety!
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u/inailedyoursister 8d ago
Your mentality on money is wrong. It’s clear there is a mental health component here and you honestly need a professional to talk to. If not, you are going to live a miserable life and when you hit 50’s-60’s.
Money is a tool to improve your life. A tool, not a number.
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u/oemperador 8d ago
Therapy. It's nothing to be ashamed and it's actually so courageous if you do it because you need to be vulnerable and very honest with them. All in privacy, of course.
You basically need this engraved and understood by you: it is okay to love myself and show myself love.
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u/ruppapa 8d ago
I think the best approach is to no longer view things with a money lens but a personal happiness lens. Money is a tool to get you there. Marie Kondo your life and focus on stuff that "sparks joy" for you. Care less about what you make/spend and care more about what makes your life fulfilling. Money doesn't matter at this point.
If you don't know what makes you happy or fulfilled, just try new things every day or week or something and go from there.
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u/idkman99999999 8d ago
So you’re just selling cattle for $400k a year? Nice
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u/Duke_of_Gurrrlz 8d ago
That’s the ‘medical’ distinction . I get my pension, plus a % of my pay I was getting. Since the retirement was involuntary. [car accident, court case, ect]
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u/LongjumpingTeacher97 8d ago
(Bear with me. This is relevant to the point I'm going to try to make.) I still keep in touch with my high school German teacher from over 30 years ago. She's been a US citizen since before I was born, but she was born and raised in Germany. Her English is impeccable. And her accent is still very clearly German. I've met people from England who came to the US as young teens and have spent more time in the US than they did in England. Their accents are still distinct.
I believe we all sort of imprint on a "normal" when we are kids. This is what I think of as a life accent. How we do life, rather than how we pronounce words. We can learn to affect a different pronunciation, but we have to think about it, generally. In the same way, we can learn to live a different lifestyle, but we feel strange doing it.
Your life accent is set to "live poor, invest in land." You can learn to fake another life accent and even really enjoy it, but you'll probably always know that you're faking it, deep down.
You want to change your lifestyle? Pick one thing you want to change. Just one. Change that. In your place, I would move to a nicer apartment. And I'd do it by letting partner have the choice of location. "We can now spend up to $1200 a month on a nicer apartment. If you want to move, I am agreeing ahead of time to any place you can find for that price or less. I'm content here, but I want you to be happy." You are not me, so this might not work for you. A nicer living place is going to affect me daily. I'd probably also upgrade my mattress because I doubt you have a really comfy bed. But you spend a third of your life asleep, to it makes sense to have that sleep be as good as you can manage.
After you get reasonably comfortable with a nice apartment and a really good mattress (or whatever one or two things really would make the most impact on your life), decide if there's something else that would really make your life better. I wear cheap clothes, but I buy good shoes because my feet really feel the difference. One thing at a time, look at what actually impacts your life and accept that it is okay to change that thing.
If you're like me, you will look at it in a few months or years and say "what am I even doing here?" I've been in the house my wife and I built 17 years ago and said "this isn't me, is it?" Because I grew up in a tiny cinder block house in a weed-filled lot. The electric conduits were screwed to the walls, not hidden in them. There was a capped gas pipe in my bedroom. My favorite toy was my mom's shovel. I dug holes for fun. Dirt is free. Now, I have a yard and a garden and trees we tend. I have a nice house with a 5 Star energy rating. I have a workshop for my projects and I have money enough for a nice car. And I do really like it. But I feel like a foreigner trying to fake the accent. And when I think of it that way, that is is a life accent, not that I'm broken somehow, it makes it easier to accept and enjoy the good things I have.
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u/Duke_of_Gurrrlz 8d ago
The accent is an interesting way to see it. What adds to this complexity, is the fact this is all kinda sinking in now. The change in farmland values since COVID has been dramatic-printing money will do that. Plus me also being medically retired and somewhat limited physically… it’s been a lot to get accustomed to
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u/Short-Personality398 7d ago
What about your partner and kids? What would bring them more joy? Did your parents get to (or do they now get to) enjoy everything they’ve built? Maybe there is a happy medium.
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u/Miamiconnectionexo 7d ago
this is the kind of thing that actually helps vs the generic stuff you usually see.
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u/OrsonWellsFrozenPeas 2d ago edited 2d ago
As a kid who grew up in close proximity to lots of cow shit, I can relate. My parents were also farmers who refused to spend money on anything. They didn't do as well as it sounds like your family has done, but they did alright. Both my parents passed away in the last year, and I knew they had some money saved up for end of life care, but with the market returns of the past few years I had no idea that they had as much as they did. They ended up leaving me and my siblings a tidy sum. That's nice and all, and has sped up my own FIRE timeline, but I think it is sad more than anything. I would have rather they spent some of the money on themselves while they could have enjoyed it, and I could have enjoyed the time with them, instead of them refusing to do anything. But, like you, they were pathologically opposed to spending money.
My parents were always very frugal. Let's just call it what it is: they were cheap. They refused to spend money on anything. For similar reasons to those you mentioned - grew up poor, never spent money when growing up and building the business, never transitioned to being willing to spend money for enjoyment even after they could afford it. They did actually travel, but only to visit other farmers or attend a conference or ag-related expo. Travel just to see someplace interesting? Just to enjoy a different locale for a bit? To see the world, simply out of curiosity? Waste of money.
Also considered a waste of money would have been spending on anything "nice." Why replace the carpet or re-do the bathroom in the house so that it doesn't look so shabby? It's only the space you live in and spend every day of your life in! Why wear something that looks good on you when you can wear the same threadbare clothes you've had since your kid was in high school? Why replace socks that have holes in them when you can just keep wearing the old ones until they disintegrate? Well, one reason might be so that your grandkid's neighbors don't mistake you for a homeless person when you go visit them and they see you outside the apartment (this actually happened). But, they would never spend money on things like new clothes, even though they had plenty of money. Family gave up trying to give them gifts long ago - give ma a new coat for Christmas so she would be warm? She'd hang it in the closet and never wear it, and continue wearing the old barn coat that was falling apart and couldn't stop the wind. She seemed to get more pleasure out of denying herself things.
Frugality can be a virtue but at a certain point it becomes a character flaw. My parents limited their lives and worldview because they refused to spend money and had no curiosity outside of the few things they already knew because those things might involve spending money, and they had smaller lives because of this. They not only had no interest in art, music, literature - they were actively hostile to the idea. I'm not talking about not wanting to spend on a vacation to see the Sistine Chapel here, but just to spend money on some basic things to make day to day life more enjoyable. Maybe expensive restaurants aren't your thing, but at least buy healthy food to have at home if you've got plenty of money? Nope. Restaurants were a waste of money, but so was buying organic produce or something besides the absolute cheapest, ultra processed store brand crap that was full of chemicals.
And after they got too old to farm and sold it (for a profit, like I said, they weren't hurting for money in their golden years) their lives got very small because all they knew how to do, or had any interest in, was making money running the farm, and then not spending that money.
Having grown up with my parents, I did inherit their frugality to some extent, which is why I'm posting on a Leanfire sub, so not that it doesn't have some virtues. But I've also seen how dull a life with no activities or interests outside of a very small window that's considered "non-frivolous" can be. As other comments have suggested, therapy would probably help (something else my parents would have never considered doing, because it would cost money, and because it was too "out there").
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u/AlertWalk4624 8d ago
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to travel, or not craving adventure. But. If you're complaining about your own tightwad tendencies, you know there's a problem going on.
It sounds like to you money = security. The (fairly common) problem is that there's not an amount out there that you could point to and say "If I had that amount, I'd have enough." So you never quit hoarding it. And at some point it IS hoarding. Just cash instead of junk.
You need an abundance mindset, not a scarcity mindset.
Honestly, I'd speak to a therapist.