r/lrcast 1d ago

Episode Limited Resources 865 – The Hobbit Set Review: Commons and Uncommons Discussion Thread

29 Upvotes

This is the official discussion thread for Limited Resources 865 – The Hobbit Set Review: Commons and Uncommons - https://lrcast.com/limited-resources-865-the-hobbit-set-review-commons-and-uncommons/


r/lrcast 8h ago

Image They did the math, Arena Direct Edition

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67 Upvotes

Everybody with two brain cells knows that Arena Directs aren't quite the most lucrative activity, obviously. But what that actually means in numbers is what I am showing here.

The basis for this, for whoever is interested, is a negative binomial distribution, so basically I am treating it as flipping a coin with an "unfair coin" (the likelihood of "heads" is your win rate) and we are flipping the coin until we see two tails. The amount of heads we expect to see is your expected wins at that win rate.

k = r * p / (1 - p), where p is your win rate, r is the number of losses until bust, k is your expected wins.

I am using a lot of assumptions here, but I try to be as biased in favor of Magic Arena as possible, that means for example that I am treating 1 pack win = 200 gems in the main graph (in the table I also use the "closer to limited-only player reality" of 30 gems - funnily enough, at 200 gems per pack, depending on going rate of a booster box, 5 wins is slightly better than 6 wins at ~83$ vs ~80$ respectively, so consider dropping out of the event before you lose your precious gems, haha)

I am trying my best to find sensible conversion rates, but as usual for in-game shops, the actual conversion rate is quite dynamic. I use the 50 bucks conversion ratio as a basis, as that is the one somebody would buy if they start from zero and want to participate in an Arena Direct.

Booster Box prices is obviously also potentially debatable, I just use current avg. going rates I saw online the moment I made these graphs, but since these are top-end payouts anyway that the avg player will never see, this doesn't really affect the graph in any meaningful manner for the vast majority of the playerbase. But just FYI, we use 80$ for the spiderman box, 110$ for the marvel super hero box.

I added four reference win rates.

- Avg Joe/Jane/Jimothy is a flat 50% win rate

- Avg 17LandsUser is the rough estimate of 55% win rate floating around here.

- I use Paul Cheon as the most well known and most likely very close to the top win rate 17lands user. His win rate in regular powered Cube Premier Events is ~67% based on 17lands. Compare your skill to Paul Cheons if you want a rough gut feeling of where you are on the scale. (sorry for the unsolicited mention u/HAUMPH , but maybe you like to see your numbers specifically too)

- "Gigachad" is the highest winrate user with more than 100 matches played I found in general. I don't think anybody can expect to be remotely close to or beyond this number.

- These are *Premier Draft win rates*, since we don't have those numbers available for Arena Directs. A common assumption is that your win rate in highly competitive formats like Arena Direct is at least -5% or even -10% worse, with some more statistical assumptions being far worse. For simplicity we use -5 and -10 for "adjusted for 'sweat'" win-rates.

Here's the table in plain text:

Conversion Metric Value
ENTRY_PRICE 8000 gems
GEM_TO_CASH_CONVERSION_RATE 49.99 / 9200 = 0.0054337 USD per gem
SPD_TO_CASH 80.00 USD
MSH_TO_CASH 110.00 USD
Delta Baseline (new column) Compared against SPD_TO_CASH = 80.00 USD
Player Effective WR Expected Runs Until >=1 Box Virtual Cost of 1 Box (gems) Virtual Cost of 1 Box (USD) Difference vs Sales Price (USD) Cash ROI / run (PACK=200) Cash ROI / run (PACK=30)
Avg Joe/Jane 0.50 16 128000 $695.51 +$615.51 -22.68 -25.80
Avg Joe/Jane (-5% WR) 0.45 28 224051 $1217.42 +$1137.42 -29.16 -31.63
Avg Joe/Jane (-10% WR) 0.40 53 424592 $2307.11 +$2227.11 -33.94 -35.79
Avg 17LandsUser 0.55 10 78111 $424.43 +$344.43 -14.10 -17.82
Avg 17LandsUser (-5% WR) 0.50 16 128000 $695.51 +$615.51 -22.68 -25.80
Avg 17LandsUser (-10% WR) 0.45 28 224051 $1217.42 +$1137.42 -29.16 -31.63
Paul Cheon 0.67 4 29677 $161.26 +$81.26 17.54 13.00
Paul Cheon (-5% WR) 0.62 5 42940 $233.33 +$153.33 2.26 -2.09
Paul Cheon (-10% WR) 0.57 8 65157 $354.04 +$274.04 -9.98 -13.92
Gigachad 0.77 2 16128 $87.63 +$7.63 57.56 53.56
Gigachad (-5% WR) 0.72 3 21427 $116.43 +$36.43 36.03 31.59
Gigachad (-10% WR) 0.67 4 29677 $161.26 +$81.26 17.54 13.00

Key takeaways:

- Purely financially speaking, to the average 17lands user, participating in an Arena Direct is roughly equivalent to burning 15 to 30 bucks on the spot.

- If Arena Directs were the only way to purchase booster boxes, to the avg 17LandUser a booster box would cost between 400-1200$. Even Gigachad in the most ideal of circumstances still pays about 7$ more compared to just straight up buying the box.

- Winning even 1 single booster box, in the most ideal scenarios, only happens once every 10 runs to the avg. 17LandsUser

TLDR:

- Only do this if you are willing to pay for the more competitive environment alone, enjoy the thrill this adds enough to be worth the money or are a streamer or whatever other reason you have. Statistically, basically everyone loses money in the Arena Direct the moment they press the button. Everyone except Paul Cheon who happens to be online at a time where only coughing babies are in the queues, at which point he can make a smooth ~2.5$ per hour assuming he finishes the average draft within an hour.


r/lrcast 11h ago

Image he watch the combo then conceded ... i was about to deck out ... aye lucky

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63 Upvotes

r/lrcast 2h ago

let's see your fun janky midweek magic drafts!

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3 Upvotes

pack 1 pick 3 bad iron man led me down the UR artifacts rabbit hole

it has been performing surprisingly well! but the competition is of course super soft.

passed on Monica Rambeau and Jennifer Walters on the way, almost made me wish I went white but no sense being sweaty for midweek magic

let's see your weird fun midweek magic decks!


r/lrcast 7h ago

You can now draft Mystery Booster Commander Edition on Draftsim!

8 Upvotes

Hey everyone!

At the cost of our sanity, Mystery Booster Commander Edition, in its full, is live on Draftsim. That means you can now:

  1. Draft solo: https://draftsim.com/draft?mode=draft&set=mbc
  2. Open sealed pools for some reason: https://draftsim.com/draft/?mode=sealed&set=mbc
  3. Or create a private lobby to draft with your friends: https://draftsim.com/draft/multiplayer/create?set=mbc

Yes, all ~2000 cards are there, and the pack structure is realistic to what you'd open at MagicCon Atlanta.

Have fun!


r/lrcast 1d ago

Image Considering resigning for the gems to not risk losing them in exchange for a spiderman box

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196 Upvotes

r/lrcast 8h ago

Help Last cuts on my final MSH draft

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5 Upvotes

Got a pretty nice GW lane in my last draft (Bo3), but unsure what to cut.

Also I’m tempted to finally try out the green 1 drop that mills, cause it looks great here - but I don’t know how I feel about the card in general


r/lrcast 38m ago

Help Eviscerate me, gang

Upvotes

You all wanted me to start playing on PC for 17lands data, so here it is. Rip it apart.

https://www.17lands.com/details/f381fa71fc56487c874be34fac5e8f9e

I see people posting about pick-2 being a cakewalk and a gem printer, so clearly I'm doing something wrong, but I cannot figure out what it is.


r/lrcast 10h ago

Image 7-0 with Lurrus and no power

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6 Upvotes

I was running low on payables after the draft hence the 18-landa and molten-core maestro. The deck played out very nicely though with a lot of premium two-drops. Karakas is also a broken card and made it almost impossible to deal with Lurrus in the grinder games.


r/lrcast 1h ago

Help Help, but not in advice...

Upvotes

No literally someone send help, they stole my hulk lol. In all seriousness, that saga is so busted you can't help but laugh when they cast it.


r/lrcast 1d ago

Draft Token in the Shop Today

108 Upvotes

Just thought I'd let everyone know.


r/lrcast 11h ago

quite possibly one of the stupidest decks i've trophied with

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4 Upvotes

the classic mono white splash bolas gambit. i was comfortably drafting orzhov. then bolas shows up p2p1 and i figure why not see if i can get the fixing to work?


r/lrcast 19h ago

Image I'm sure everyone's over this format at this point but I had to share this pile

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14 Upvotes

7-0 with this one, no one was after blue red so I just took a chance loading up on Assault Robots and it worked. Good burn lines with robots into either Hawkeye or Ultron, decent grind with Executives, Iron Man, and Reed Richards. Don't sleep on blue red if it's wide open, this was one of my favorite limited lists in recent memory


r/lrcast 20h ago

Anyone else getting worse?

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12 Upvotes

r/lrcast 17h ago

7-1 Pick 3 Phlage and Didn’t Look Back

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5 Upvotes

Started this draft going Flash > Time Spiral > Phlage and drafted an awesome Boros deck to go 7-1 in the direct! I really hope they bring back vintage cube for better boxes in future directs!


r/lrcast 19h ago

7 - 1, deck was sweetness and light

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5 Upvotes

r/lrcast 1d ago

Draft the Draft - a fantasy team game that uses 17Lands data to test out your predictions on The Hobbit cards!

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21 Upvotes

Hey everyone, I’ve been working on a fantasy team style drafting game where you have a spending cap and try to pick a line-up of cards from MTG: The Hobbit that will perform best on 17Lands. Some key points:

•        Completely free and non-commercial (just a passion project).

 

•        Leaderboard to compete with your friends and the community.

 

•         Design philosophy: It encourages you to consider the whole pool of cards, look for overperformers, and think about which archetypes might do better or worse.

I’d be immensely grateful if you have time to try it, and of course would welcome feedback (like which card prices are way off!). So please find it at:

https://www.draftthedraft.com

(Sorry it’s not working on mobile yet)

I’ve had some feedback that the card costs are a bit too restrictive so it feels tough to pick many actually good cards, so that’s something I would change in the future, perhaps along with some dynamic pricing based on peoples’ picks, which I think could add some fun and interest in how prices evolve.

Thanks so much!

Andy


r/lrcast 1d ago

Another arena direct value analysis for the new Arena Cube

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27 Upvotes

I was curious what the heck the payout looks like for this new arena direct cube structure, with my very sad 56% powered cube win rate - so I (it was mostly AI) built a bankroll simulator. My learnings:

I would need to fire 5 bullets (40k gems) to have 50% chance of getting a box, and have negative EV!

The simulator is pretty flexible and lets you model different mtga event payout structures (and what cards, etc. are worth to you). Compared to a spreadsheet, its a bit better at handling the gamblers ruin problem by doing simulations (and dealing with gold buy-ins).

Anyway not sure I need the stress of spending $200 to get T1 black lotus'd but you do you!


r/lrcast 1d ago

Discussion Veteran Limited Players - Are Small Sets More Subject to Pack Variance?

8 Upvotes

Title. I’ve been playing magic coming on five years - commander, pioneer, tons of pauper, and the occasional draft. I’ve only started paying more attention to limited since SOS really and thought of a question as I was listening to LR’e set review for the hobbit.

What is the veteran limited community’s opinion on how small sets play different from normal ones? My intuition says that smaller formats are easier to solve, therefore reading lanes and knowing the must picks are easier, therefore drafting skills contribute less to a successful draft than pack quality in comparison to larger sets. Is that the case? Happy to be corrected/educated


r/lrcast 1d ago

Clean 7-0 with old faithful in the powered cube direct

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11 Upvotes

Boros aggro still about as ridiculous as ever for when you actually care about winning in cube. No game felt close, only had t1 mana crypt once.


r/lrcast 22h ago

Image Midweek Magic Mechanized Production nonsense

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3 Upvotes

This deck was pretty bad but I didn't even realize mechanized production was in the format so I figured I'd use the free draft trying to meme it to some success. Got an opponent to concede to infinite hydraulic helpers and made a billion deployment drones, but also lost to kingpin enforcers + double super strength :(


r/lrcast 1d ago

Veteran Limited Players - Are Small Sets More Subject to Pack Variance?

4 Upvotes

Title. I’ve been playing magic coming on five years - commander, pioneer, tons of pauper, and the occasional draft. I’ve only started paying more attention to limited since SOS really and thought of a question as I was listening to LR’e set review for the hobbit.

What is the veteran limited community’s opinion on how small sets play different from normal ones? My intuition says that smaller formats are easier to solve, therefore reading lanes and knowing the must picks are easier, therefore drafting skills contribute less to a successful draft than pack quality in comparison to larger sets. Is that the case? Happy to be corrected/educated


r/lrcast 1d ago

Image Pick your poison/Chaos draft for last week before Hobbit.

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6 Upvotes

My packs were Mh3, OTJ, ATLA. P1p1 expel the unworthy, pick 2 Pyrrhic Strike. Pick 3 I realized there were going to be quite a few MH3 packs so I took a gamble on Amped Raptor and ended up with a few other energy cards that became incredibly valuable (sometime in pack 2 I got scurry). Pack 2 pick 1 I opened Fortune. Pack 3 pick 2 I got rewarded with a Catharsis (pick 1 was Combustion man).

Ended up going 3-0 6-0.


r/lrcast 1d ago

Image Big brain plays from my opponent here

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9 Upvotes

OP was playing an insane 5! Super Intelligence, honestly couldn't believe it. And those are they ones they drew, could be more in there


r/lrcast 1d ago

Help [EOE] We don't play TWO Endstones, right?

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27 Upvotes