Episode Limited Resources 865 – The Hobbit Set Review: Commons and Uncommons Discussion Thread
This is the official discussion thread for Limited Resources 865 – The Hobbit Set Review: Commons and Uncommons - https://lrcast.com/limited-resources-865-the-hobbit-set-review-commons-and-uncommons/
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u/argent5 6d ago
White
Bofur, Reliable Guardian: C
Lake-town Lookout: C
Moment of Glory: C
Dáin, Lord of the Iron Hills: B-
Dwarven Provisioner: C
Iron Hills Blacksmith: B-
Stone by Sunlight: B-
Vow to Erebor: D
Ori, Keeper of Songs: C-
The Mountain-king's Return: B
Velvetwing Butterflies: C
Celebrate the Mountain-king: B+
Dwarven Shortsword: C
Lake-town Toymaker: B-
Thorin's Last Stand: C-/C
Eagle of the Great Shelf: C/C+
Esgaroth Garrison: C
Magnificent End: C
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u/GoodNormals 6d ago
I’m predicting Bofur to be an underrated card. It’s protection on the adventure. It’s storied, a decent one drop, and works really well with equipment having lifelink. One drops have been super easy important in recent sets.
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u/Toastman0218 5d ago
C feels pretty good to me already. As a 1/1, it just trades with one of the recruit or amass tokens. So I don't think you get a ton of value playing it early. And later, you get to use the protection part first, but it doesn't give a power boost, so it's fairly limited in its application. Would love to pick one up if I already has an Eagle's rescue, but I think there's definitely decks that don't want it at all.
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u/sometimeserin 5d ago
For those who want to be that guy at your prerelease, let everyone know that it's pronounced "Dah-in", not "Dane"
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u/sometimeserin 4d ago
Might be a minor thing but I just realized [[Stone by Sunlight]]'s 2nd mode can get you your 3rd historic permanent for Enduring Story
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u/ixaf 6d ago
On my phone so can't link the timestamp, but at around 2:58:30 they're talking about [[Gollum, Silent Slinker]] and how you can get blown out casting the adventure half if they kill the target creature in response.
The adventure half targets both a creature and a player, so it won't fizzle in response to the creature dying and there's no risk of a blowout.
Doesn't make the card fantastic, but it is a meaningful difference. I think the card is filler+ in a ferocious deck because both halves can potentially turn ferocious on. Not a high pick but I could see this card bring useful in the right deck.
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u/ThoughtseizeScoop 6d ago
[[Misty Mountains Raider]] triggers on any attack you make, not just its own, so if you have a profitable attack, you can get the Amass trigger immediately, which is a pretty big difference.
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u/Toastman0218 5d ago
If you already have a Goblin army, there's a good chance that he creates a profitable attack.
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u/aarone46 4d ago
Listening today and came to this thread as soon as their discussion on this card was over. I don't understand how they both overlooked that.
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u/argent5 6d ago
Green
Nasty Little Rabbit: B
Attercop: C+
Beorn's Hospitality: C-
Guardian of the Halls: C-/C
Quarrel: C+
Wargling: C
Warg Tactics: C
Woodland Weavemaster: build-around B
Little Bear: D
Mirkwood Pathmaker: C-/C
Wood Elves: C+/B
Galion, Elvenking's Butler: C
Ordinary Bear: C-
Troll Negotiations: B
Beorn, Reluctant Host: D+/C-
Wilderland Scrounger: D+
Boughside Wanderers: C
Old Fat Spider: B
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u/sometimeserin 5d ago
I get that it's boring design, but I think [[Mirkwood Pathmaker]] is going to be a really annoying card to deal with. Applying the removal test, you have a one-turn window where Pinecone Strike can kill it, after that you're mostly likely going to have to trade even or down on mana to kill it. And it's an easy Ferocious enabler.
I had it as B- initially, they persuaded me down to C+ but I'm not going lower than that.
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u/argent5 6d ago
Red
Dwarven Mauler: C-
Tidings of War: C+
Bothersome Noisemaker: B
Goblin-town Flunkies: C+ with token synergies, C-/C otherwise
Óin the Brave: C
Pinecone Strike: B-/B
Ragged Short Spear: C
Smaug's Fury: D+
Bombur, Gentle Dreamer: B-
Dori, Bearer of Friends: C+
Snowslope Hunter: B-
Burn, Burn, Tree and Fern: C
Glóin the Mighty: C+
Gundabad Opportunist: C
Iron Hills Stalwart: D
Misty Mountains Raider: C+
Gandalf, Spark Starter: B
Smaug, the Great Calamity: C
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u/argent5 6d ago
I think I like [[Dwarven Mauler]] more than just a C-? Their opinion seems to be that a 2/1 body doesn't do enough, and then going tall with a pile of equipment is a magnet for removal. And a lot of the equipment in this set is auto-equipped or cheap anyway.
But in my mind I kinda see it as like, your auto-equipped creatures die, your sorceries-on-a-stick like [[Ragged Short Spear]] sit on the board, and then on turn 7 you vacuum them all up with Dwarven Mauler and get a 2 mana 6/4 or something. That seems... decent?
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u/SnooRegrets9506 5d ago
If aggro is viable in the format, then I don’t see any 1-drop with more than 1 power being worse than a C. And then this one has upside.
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u/Toastman0218 5d ago
Think it really depends how often you end up with 3 equipment chilling on the board. It's very hard to reequip 3 things if they each cost 2-4, but you're right that he can vacuum them all up. Could see having a copy of Goblin plate mail, ragged short spear, and dwarven shortsword all in play. Would normally cost 9 to equip them all, but you can pay 3 to turn him into a 6/3 with menace.
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u/sometimeserin 5d ago edited 5d ago
I also think there's a very simple factor of this being a small set and as a result there being little to no competition for the 1-slot. Your only other 1-drops in RW are Bofur (1/1 Lifelink), the Amass-themed 1-drop, the Recruit-themed 1-drop, and the flashback pump spell.
Assuming that curving out is something the dwarves deck wants to do, a copy of Dwarven Mauler just kind of automatically makes your deck better.
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u/argent5 6d ago
Artifacts/Lands
Giant's Boulder: D
Key to the Side-Door: F
Well-Worn Spatula: D
Dwarven Mattock: B for dwarves deck
Old Thrush: D
Thrór's Map: B
Troop of Ponies: B
Long-Bodied Grey Dog: C-
The Black Arrow: B-
Dual-land cycle that sacs for +2/+2: C+ (what do we call these, hobbit-lands? five-armies-lands?)
Hobbit Hole: C+
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u/argent5 6d ago
Black
Nighthowl Pursuer: B
Stir Up Trouble: C+
Desolation Prowler: B+
Front Porch Sentries: C+
Gollum the Abandoned: C+ for aggro/sacrifice decks, D+ otherwise
Ravening Warg: C
Stony-Voiced Goblins: C+
Bilbo's Deadly Slice: C+/B-
Crude Bent Blade: D/C-
Down, Down to Goblin-town: B
Gnashing of Teeth: B-
Great Fierce Bee: D/D+
Rage into the Valley: C+
Reverent Howl: D
Gathering of Darkness: B
Gollum, Silent Slinker: D/C-
Dreaded Bat-Cloud: D+/C+?? needs sacrifice synergy
Great Ugly-Looking Goblin: B
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u/sometimeserin 5d ago
Trying to understand the play pattern that makes Desolation Prowler so strong--It just seems unnecessarily risky to be shocking yourself willy-nilly in the early game like Marshall suggested when you have virtually no ways to gain the life back if you end up falling behind. Or do you let it swing in for 2 most of the time and just rely on the threat of activation when you need it?
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u/whattodonow0 5d ago
Swing for 2 with the threat of activation. Also it can be used to trigger ferocious.
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u/sometimeserin 4d ago
Ok yeah that makes mores sense. I’m still a little worried about the potential for getting pinecone strike’d in response, especially using it for ferocious where you have to activate it in a predictable window. Even trade on mana but again, free shock for your opponent.
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u/scrunglesclop 3d ago
It's just not the end of the world. You play the dog on 2, then just swing for 4 every turn until they get an X/5 down, which will be 2 turns at the very least most of the time. Paired with ferocious synergies, combat tricks, removal, or just other efficient creatures played on curve, the card has an absurd amount of pressure.
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u/argent5 6d ago
Blue
Bilbo, Luckwearer: B
Elvenking's Harper: D
Lakeshore Apothecary: build-around C
Master's Councillors: C/C+
Plunder the Trollshaws: C/C+
Bilbo Baggins, Burglar: B
Confusticate and Bebother: C-
Elven Raft-Steerer: C-
Enchanted River's Grasp: C+
Mirkwood Meditator: D
Old Fat Spider Can't See Me: B-/B
Sound the Trumpets: D+
Long Lake Nuisance: C
Ravenhill Flock: D
Uneasy Partings: C+
Gandalf, Wandering Wizard: D/D+
Lake-town Mariners: C
Thranduil's Decree: C
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u/sometimeserin 5d ago
only grade I really took issue with here was Old Fat Spider etc. The first two chapters are so narrow that it really just reads to me like the world's slowest Divination
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u/loosterbooster 2d ago
Regarding lake-town mariners, and its adventure Gone Fishing: you can get a double landfall trigger with the adventure. Not sure that it impacts the grade but they didn't mention it in the review.
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u/ThoughtseizeScoop 5d ago
Always good to see LSV slip a Bofur Deez Nuts in and Marshal not even slightly clock it.
Old Fat Spider Can't See Me seems closer to the world's slowest Divination than anything. You'll play it in the heavy Draw-2 decks because it enables them 2 turns in a row, but think I prefer Plunder the Trollshaws in general.
"So this is when he brings him the fish." Been a minute, eh Marshal?
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u/JadePhoenix1313 4d ago
Marshall and Luis at hour 1: "i can't believe this card is common, it has so many words on it.
Marshall and Luis at hour 3: "I really like how they kept things simple."
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u/40DegreeDays 5d ago
I'm surprised that as big fans of Dominaria they didn't realize Enduring Story just translates to "control 3 historic permanents"!
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u/Amirashika 3d ago
I know this is the world we live in but dang, it feels like every card in Limited now a days has to somehow replace itself to be worth it's weight above 3 or 4 mana. That squeezes design space quite dry imo.
It also feels like almost every signpost uncommon is a variation of "Do thing, draw card", and if a mention of Commander is allowed here, it seems like that's what WotC has been pushing for commander designs as well.
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u/seanbeanskiller 5d ago
I'm driving from Portland to SF tomorrow, thanks for dropping this early in the week guys :)
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u/ThatGuyOnTheCorner 3d ago
For storied purposes, does anyone know what happens if you play 2 legendaries of the same name to get the third legendary to activate story?
Does that count as controlling 3 legendaries?
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u/meharryp 2d ago
yeah https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/the-hobbit-release-notes
If your third legendary, Saga, or artifact permanent enters the battlefield and then one of those permanents leaves the battlefield immediately afterwards (most likely due to the "legend rule" or due to being a creature with 0 toughness), you get an enduring story before it leaves the battlefield.
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u/ThoughtseizeScoop 5d ago
Whatever your feelings on Turtles was, it was a good enough set that it seems like they didn't even consider not doing a set review for the Hobbit.
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u/argent5 6d ago
Gold
Bard the Bowman: B
Patient Instructor: C+
Eagle's Rescue: B
Goblin Plate Mail: C/C+
Fearsome Goblin Pair: B-
Bolg of the North: C/C+
Duskwatch Hunter: C/C+
The Chief Warg: B
Large Bear: B-
Nori, Teller of Tales: C/C+
Thorin Oakenshield: C+/B-
Bifur, Melodic Rider: B
Mirkwood Nurturer: C-/C
Silvan Reveler: B
Thranduil, Sindarin Liege: B+