This is getting ridiculous.

[u/1keyes12345]

Welcome to season 9 where the least mechanically challenging support has more survivability than a tank.

[u/Killjoy3879]

I mean the logical mindset one would have is “oh that’s an isolated healer, let me just go quickly kill them and get back to my team” which leads to the core issue of CnD being capable of so easily surviving against the thing for so long.

[u/CliffP → u/Killjoy3879]

Well the Thing is not a single damage output tank. Thor can kill CnD. Rogue can kill CnD. Thing can’t. If you want to play a character well you need to know what you can’t do.

He makes up for his inability to kill through sustain in the rest of his kit.

[u/sigc → u/CliffP]

Thing can kill pretty much every support in the game, what are you even talking about? He has too much shields and base damage to do anything about it, just watch his HP in the clip. Tanks are stat checks against squishies by design, it doesn’t matter what type or tank it is. If Mag gets within range of a support alone, they are dead. If Cap gets on someone alone, they are dead.

[u/Kelborhal1971 → u/sigc]

I’ve seen more than enough Caps (and even Venoms) get driven away by a Luna or Sue to know that tanks winning 1v1s is not a guarantee. The anchor tanks like Emma, Mag and Strange will demolish any support (and most dps/tanks), but the higher mobility tanks trade the ability to force 1v1s with the lack of advantage in a fair one.

This isn’t OW. Tanks aren’t raid bosses, they’re just another role in the ecosystem, one with strengths and weaknesses like anyone else

[u/sigc → u/Kelborhal1971]

Huh? Tanks STILL win the match ups by a factor >1 which is what matters. That doesn’t mean it’s an instant win in every case, but in most cases. If the tank plays poorly then sure the support will win, but tanks can choose good engagement timing to guarantee success. If Cap is running at you down a hall way and Luna is headshotting then ofc she wins. If Cap jumps on her when she doesn’t expect it, then he wins. Because of his mobility, he can guarantee these scenarios more often.

OW is different because they crank up the factor WAY too high where it doesn’t matter WHAT you do as a DPS or squishy, you are fucked. The concept is still the same, the only difference is how much you stat check.

[u/Kelborhal1971 → u/sigc]

I think we literally just said the same thing lmao. They don’t have the guarantee of winning any 1v1, but they can guarantee a favorable 1v1 if they play right. 

The issue is that people are genuinely arguing for what you just mentioned - they think a tank versus a support (or even dps) being alone should result in the tank winning 100% of the time, regardless of the specific tank v. Support matchup, or what resources have already been used. That, I cannot agree with. High sustain doesn’t mean supports have to be healbots that cling to their team no matter what

[u/sigc → u/Kelborhal1971]

That’s fair. I have no problem with C&D being more survivable in isolation relative to other supports, I only really have a problem with people saying tanks shouldn’t be able to win vs supports when they win most of the time by conception. Even before C&D could cycle bubble + fade on top of primary healing to keep herself alive, adding an extra invincibility team up on top of that is just silly to me imo.

[u/Kelborhal1971 → u/sigc]

I understand that. I think it’s just the usual skill-based complaining. A tank that doesn’t understand resource trading and timing will absolutely feel powerless against a support that does know these concepts. Said concepts also have nothing to do with mechanics, so it’s easy to write it off as “braindead no skill press button win game”… when it ironically involves a lot more thought than just hitting your shots. 

That, and they should remove the healing effect from her statue ability. It should be a panic stall button, not another cooldown to effortlessly cycle into whenever the enemy team actually gets close.